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CrazyPaco

Athletic Director
Jul 5, 2001
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Script is spreading.

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Previous scoreboard for comparison...new one is a huge improvement, long overdue. Thanks again to the John and Gertie Petersen.

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Script is spreading.

The new scoreboard and logo look great. The Pittsburgh dinocat banner next to it....not so much. Makes us look like we suffer from branding schizophrenia.

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CHT2Tu_UMAIQe1y.jpg:large


Previous scoreboard for comparison...new one is a huge improvement, long overdue. Thanks again to the John and Gertie Petersen.

trees1.jpg
 
The PITT SCRIPT is one of the antidotes to overcome the "Pederson Poison" that Steve Pederson was too small to see in both mind and promotion, and good to see PITT is back on track to make PITT even better!

Time to remove that "Pederson's Created DinoCat Pittsburgh Logo," that looks like a Rottweiler, and like Pharaoh erased Moses name everywhere in Egypt, do the same to Pederson's Ego Mistakes! Athletic Director Barnes starts in 2 days and time to return Pitt to the Promised Land of Top 25 Winning Again!


Branding is more important than ever and Pederson's mismanagement of using his hand selected inside Consultants both at Pitt and Nebraska was a well known failure!
 
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i remember the day smiley abruptly announced the pitt script thing last season(during the season). a friend called me that day and asked what i thought. i said that smiley is getting fired very soon.

pitt script spreading is not a surprise in the least. without pederson, better days are ahead for pitt.
 
Here's what I don't get: There were some (many?) on here who always made fun of the script and bashed anyone who brought it up. What changed?
 
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Here's what I don't get: There were some (many?) on here who always made fun of the script and bashed anyone who brought it up. What changed?
I suspect that same element is now leading the cheers for the return of the script, and deriding the block PITTSBURGH/PITT and the various weird incarnations of the panther that went along with it.

They're called slappies.
 
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I suspect that same element is now leading the cheers for the return of the script, and deriding the block PITTSBURGH/PITT and the various weird incarnations of the panther that went along with it.


They're called slappies.

Pitt To Pitt Script! :)

Pitt Script To Pittsburgh?? :mad:

Pittsburgh To Pitt Block!!! :p

Pitt Block To Pitt Script!!!!:cool:

PEDERSON:(TOLD:confused:TO:mad:BRING:eek:PITTo_OSCRIPT;)BACK!

:)PEDERSON:cool:FIRED:p!
 
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I suspect that same element is now leading the cheers for the return of the script, and deriding the block PITTSBURGH/PITT and the various weird incarnations of the panther that went along with it. They're called slappies.

Slowly as Pederson's Mistakes kept mounting up both at Pitt, Nebraska, and Pitt again, it dawn on the Dumb that they may have been Dumber?o_O

Now they have had Saint Paul Revelations that border on they cannot remember ever defending Pederson??:eek:

In sum, Pederson proved them wrong, and made them even look more stupid!:(

Therefore, they just want to forget they ever supported him, and pretend it never happen?
:mad:
 
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I predict that the block Pitt will be phased out fairly rapidly in the next 2–3 years in favor of the script Pitt – across all sports.
 
Here's what I don't get: There were some (many?) on here who always made fun of the script and bashed anyone who brought it up. What changed?

You mean, the people who bashed those obsessed with the font of a logo as if it was an issue that was actually holding back the athletic department?
 
I predict that the block Pitt will be phased out fairly rapidly in the next 2–3 years in favor of the script Pitt – across all sports.

If they have any ounce of marketing savvy, that is what should happen, and it shouldn't be restricted to athletic endeavors. However, the incredibly inconsistent approach to university branding over the past 100 years doesn't leave me hopeful. But obviously, the fact that this is the first permanent signage using the script logo to be installed in a non-football sport indicates the potential move in that area for athletics...I just hope they don't take 15 years to phase it in across the AD like they did following 1973.

Saw a talk by a bioengineer from Michigan yesterday. It was an academic talk with block M everywhere. Pitt=100 years of marketing stupidity. Here's to one day the script Pitt being as universally used and recognized.
 
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You mean, the people who bashed those obsessed with the font of a logo as if it was an issue that was actually holding back the athletic department?

Maybe you can explain his mistakes at Nebraska his Alma Mater not working out either, and you can blame their fans as well???? LOL!
 
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It agree with Paco. However, I would take it a step further.

In this day and age, because of technology and how logos are seen by most consumers on their cell phones, tablets, etc., you really MUST have a simplified logo. A complex logo does not work.

For those same reasons most college logos are also vertical – like Michigan's block M, Notre Dame's interlocking ND, Ohio State's block O, Syracuse's and Stanford's block S, Alabama's cursive A, Southern Cal's interlocking SC, etc. All of those logos are vertical and EXTREMELY simple. That is not merely coincidental.

That was the one good thing about Dinocat, as it were. It was vertical. That is literally the only nice thing I can say about it. Literally everything else about it – and the "torch-cut" arched Pittsburgh that initially accompanied it – was just plain bad graphic design. The fact that it was green lit in the first place, much less lasted for as long as it did, suggests a lot of very troubling things about the people running the department at the time.

With the block Pitt and now the script Pitt logo, our logo is now horizontal – like Cal, UConn, UCF, etc. That is not optimal by any means but it is workable.

If I were Pitt, I would use the P from the script Pitt as a secondary or tertiary logo to use VERY SPARINGLY on baseball caps and in some multi-media applications. I would also look into creating a logo of a panther that is vertical and uncomplicated.

I would absolutely not, under any circumstances, have multiple primary logos within one athletic department. That is definitely not a good way to go. I know it works for UCLA but they are the outlier.
 
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You mean, the people who bashed those obsessed with the font of a logo as if it was an issue that was actually holding back the athletic department?


That was always what I said. The obsession that some people have with which font we spell Pitt with is, and always has been, moronic. Which font we spell Pitt with was never even been close to the top 100 problems with Pitt athletics.

Now having said that, if we are going to go back to script then don't do it half-assed. We should be changing all instances of the block Pitt, whether it's on a sign or a uniform or whatever, to script as soon as is feasible.
 
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The trucks around campus have been sporting the logo and colors for several months.
 
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It agree with Paco. However, I would take it a step further.

In this day and age, because of technology and how logos are seen by most consumers on their cell phones, tablets, etc., you really MUST have a simplified logo. A complex logo does not work.

For those same reasons most college logos are also vertical – like Michigan's block M, Notre Dame's interlocking ND, Ohio State's block O, Syracuse's and Stanford's block S, Alabama's cursive A, Southern Cal's interlocking SC, etc. All of those logos are vertical and EXTREMELY simple. That is not merely coincidental.

That was the one good thing about Dinocat, as it were. It was vertical. That is literally the only nice thing I can say about it. Literally everything else about it – and the "torch-cut" arched Pittsburgh that initially accompanied it – was just plain bad graphic design. The fact that it was green lit in the first place, much less lasted for as long as it did, suggests a lot of very troubling things about the people running the department at the time.

With the block Pitt and now the script Pitt logo, our logo is now horizontal – like Cal, UConn, UCF, etc. That is not optimal by any means but it is workable.

If I were Pitt, I would use the P from the script Pitt as a secondary or tertiary logo to use VERY SPARINGLY on baseball caps and in some multi-media applications. I would also look into creating a logo of a panther that is vertical and uncomplicated.

I would absolutely not, under any circumstances, have multiple primary logos within one athletic department. That is definitely not a good way to go. I know it works for UCLA but they are the outlier.

I agree with the use of a script P....was thinking the same thing. Used to be on baseball hats in the late 80s and 90s. There should be zero other fonts used for "Pitt" or "P" or even "Pittsburgh". They need to think about this very carefully and perhaps enlist some outside help.

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Also think we need a new Panther. But I would incorporate the script with it somehow like was done in the 90s or in some other manner. Script should be on everything. Not that I'm advocating this relatively cartoonish Panther, but incorporating script in some manner like this.
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Personally, I like Panthers based on our statues like, particularly the first one:

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The university's institutional identity is an absolute cluster. Use of the university seal as the primary logo for the university needs to change. In my opinion, the last simplification of the academic seal for use in primary institutional identity looks cluttered, clunky and less than regal at larger reproduction sizes (it is good with the small reproductions, just use the normal academic seal for larger sizes...why two?!? stupid IMO). It's been a year since they introduced this new seal logo as well, and it still isn't consistently applied across the major second level pages of the university own website! (like Admissions or the School of Arts & Sciences) What a cluster.

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Pitt needs to take a page out of Miami's recent playbook, and find a way to integrate the script Pitt into everything. Save the seal for more formal business. Or integrate elements of the seal into the primary institutional identity the way the Oakland Zoo had.



If you must have this current primary university logo now. Dump the "University of Pittsburgh" and replace it with script "Pitt". It already says "University of Pittsburgh" in the seal.

Or use script font for the entire words as here:
old20.jpg


Or maybe see how just putting the letters p-i-t-t of the word "Pittsburgh" in script...something akin to....
University of Pittsburgh
 
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Thanks for introducing the straw man argument again and proving my point with Exhibit 1A.
You are welcome, and thanks for showing why Pitt needs a new ID and your suggestions are very nice. Such displays and actions show the only straw man was at NU and Pitt after 2002, and not one fan is to be blamed at either school? If he was correct he would still be AD?

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Love the script logo on the scoreboard. Unique and sharp. If only we could get them to start using old gold before a more thorough rebrand happens, as that is the official University color
 
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Here's what I don't get: There were some (many?) on here who always made fun of the script and bashed anyone who brought it up. What changed?

The script bashers were actually the vocal minority and primarily just trolling. If Pitt doesn't win 8 or more games each season, these same morons will troll with something like "why didn't script guarantee more wins this year?" Probably some sort of mental disorder for a few of them.

Now, the script is rather unique. It looks great on a helmet or t shirt. It looks sweet from afar as it does on the swimming and diving scoreboard. It is connected to Pitt's last time of great football success. It is rooted in history and tradition. It takes a real pompous jacka$$ with balls of steel to have ever changed it in the first place.
 
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The script bashers were actually the vocal minority and primarily just trolling. If Pitt doesn't win 8 or more games each season, these same morons will troll with something like "why didn't script guarantee more wins this year?" Probably some sort of mental disorder for a few of them.

Now, the script is rather unique. It looks great on a helmet or t shirt. It looks sweet from afar as it does on the swimming and diving scoreboard. It is connected to Pitt's last time of great football success. It is rooted in history and tradition. It takes a real pompous jacka$$ with balls of steel to have ever changed it in the first place.

Agreed... it is more the trolls that post on here than actual Pitt fans. I honestly dont really care one way or the other, but really hard to argue that the block Pitt is aesthetically pleasing in any way at all.
 
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The script bashers were actually the vocal minority and primarily just trolling. If Pitt doesn't win 8 or more games each season, these same morons will troll with something like "why didn't script guarantee more wins this year?" Probably some sort of mental disorder for a few of them. Now, the script is rather unique. It looks great on a helmet or t shirt. It looks sweet from afar as it does on the swimming and diving scoreboard. It is connected to Pitt's last time of great football success. It is rooted in history and tradition. It takes a real pompous jacka$$ with balls of steel to have ever changed it in the first place.

PITT-GIRL NAILED IT, Crazy Paco Confirms it, and we all know it, except the few that flew, and I'll say it again???

The Pitt Scrip being brought back just shows it was a mistake to get rid of it in the first place, and the dummy that did it, is gone?

At no time, was any fan that did or did not come to a game accountable or responsible, just Pederson that came up with that idea to dump the Pitt Script, and just like Nebraska Pitt dumped Pederson for many reasons, but bringing back the Script is proof Pederson made the mistake not any fan!
 
I actually like the block Pitt in some applications. For example, I thought the block Pitt looked really good on our football helmets and on our basketball uniforms.

The problem is that it just doesn't hold the same sentimental appeal to most Pitt fans that the script Pitt holds. It is literally no more complicated than that.

My core theory on public relations and marketing – and I've done it for a very long time – is that it starts with listening.

If you are willing to listen, and you know how to listen, your customers will usually tell you what they want. You may not always agree with their choices but really, that's irrelevant. Your job is not to dazzle people with your brilliance but rather to give them what they want in a reasonable, modern way.

Pitt's greatest mistake under Pederson - and they made it over and over again - was they always skipped that crucial first phase. Instead, they would have a small group of men make decisions for the masses and then foist their brilliant ideas on everyone else and expect everyone to dutifully comply. That is just plain bad marketing.

Remember that survey that came out last year? Well, that was the first one we ever got under Pederson. That's strange from a marketing perspective. How do you make decisions without data?

Now, it must be said that it is entirely possible that they convened market research groups without any of us knowing about it. Frankly, given every other way they did business, that is difficult to believe but it is possible. However, even if you are doing market research, you should still be sending out surveys semi-regularly to get some broad brush data points.

As I said earlier, in most cases your customers will tell you exactly what they want if you are willing to listen. However, once they tell you what you want you have to have the humility and intelligence to give it to them.
 
Even the way Pitt rolled out the radical branding change was very amateurish. I will always believe that if they had rolled out the change in a more professional manner, a lot of the problems that would plague them for a decade-and-a-half afterwards would have been mitigated.

You simply don't overhaul everything – including the name by which most of the fans know the school – and tell your customers basically, "Hey, that's how it's going to be so you had better get used to it."

That ensured a backlash and a schism that was created for no reason whatsoever other than egotism and incompetence.

The truth is we should be able to use the words Pitt and Pittsburgh interchangeably just like happens at the University of California (Cal), the University of Connecticut (UConn), Louisiana State University (LSU), and many others. The fact that it became an either/or situation is completely ridiculous and is entirely the fault of our former athletic director. He is the one that was telling broadcasters and fans they could know you longer use the term Pitt when referring to our favorite athletic program even though it is the term we used since we were old enough to talk.

That is a just plain stupid approach it was never going to work.

Now, I am always a believer that if you are a critic of something you need to have a solution yourself. With that in mind here's what I think Pitt should have done when they decided to radically change brands.

What Pitt should have done is switch the colors but kept the script Pitt. You sell it as a return to your traditional roots – an argument some people continue to buy.

You also introduce the torch cut Pittsburgh and panther head as a secondary logo.

Then, two years later, switch to the Pittsburgh mark as your primary logo, relegating the script Pitt to a variety of tertiary uses. You also explain that your research shows that more people nationally know it as Pittsburgh and not Pitt.

Then, a few years after that, you drop the script Pitt all together and you have an established foothold with the new colors and the new logo.

You also let locals to continue to call the university Pitt. However, in all printed publications, and for ESPN graphics, etc., you always use the more formal version of Pittsburgh. You also use the more formal Pittsburgh on all of the uniforms.

Had they gone about the radical branding change in the manner I just described, that entire issue would've been significantly less controversial. People would've used Pitt and Pittsburgh interchangeably and Pittsburgh would've been the more common usage among the younger fans. Instead, they tried for the you're going to eat your vegetables and like it approach and predictably it did not work. It was never going to work.
 
The other thing about the logo itself that never made sense to me is how poor it is graphically. It is a lopsided logo that lacks symmetry and balance. It also has far too many elements.

Those are some pretty basic mistakes for a company like Adidas to make. Just think about it for a second and ask yourself if you could name any other athletic dept. or pro team with a similarly busy logo to the one we rolled out in the mid 90s? I'm sure there are some but there are not many.

Take Oregon for example – the poster child for the new branding revolution. Everything about them is about garishness and flash and getting attention. However, it is interesting to note that their logo is just a very simple stylized O. In that way they are just as traditional as the older schools they like to rebel against.

In our case, the panther head was extremely detailed and so was the torch cut lettering. To top it off, it had a multi-colored border complete with drop shadows and reverse drop shadows. That is a ton of elements in a small mark!

I remember the time Pitt boasting that some Hall of Fame designer from Adidas made that logo but I always doubted that very much.

I understand that is a pretty weird thing to lie about but I know that an experienced designer would understand that logo was going to appear in things like letterhead, small print newspaper type, uniforms, T-shirts, etc. Cell phones and mobile applications were not really a thing then so I don't blame them for not anticipating that aspect of things and the impact it would have on society.

It just seems weird to me that they would make such a detailed and complex mark for an athletic department. There is a reason why everyone else's logo is so simple and that reason is pragmatism.
 
One final thought on the block Pitt.

I must say for the record the block Pitt was a massive improvement over its predecessor – the torch cut Pittsburgh with the panther head. At least the block Pitt mark looked like it had been designed by a professional firm - not a recent Art Institute graduate who did not understand the complexities of the assignment or sports itself.

Personally speaking I think the block Pitt looked very nice on our football helmets and on our home men's basketball uniforms.

The problem with that logo was how poorly it looked on the road basketball uniforms.

I am not sure why this is the case but for some reason that logo always looked significantly better and stronger when the block Pitt was in blue with a black drop shadow than it did when the block Pitt was in gold with a white reverse drop shadow.

That was a very weird phenomenon but it was unmistakable. The reverse drop shadow ruined the entire thing for me. It made the entire logo look cheesy and dated to the early 90s.

That is one of the things that is most notable about the first post in this thread. Looking at the sign at trees Hall, for whatever reason, the gold script Pitt does not look cheesy or dated against a blue background. That makes it a superior mark, IMHO.

If the script Pitt does not look good on the basketball uniforms, I would suggest they just go to plain block lettering Pitt - sans the drop shadows and reverse drop shadows.

Everything else should be in the script lettering. The secondary mark should just be the script P. A third mark – which in some applications could also be the secondary logo – should be a simple and sleek looking but intimidating panther or panther head.

If they do this properly – which would be a vast departure from their predecessors – this should be a smooth and seamless process.
 
I actually like the block Pitt in some applications. For example, I thought the block Pitt looked really good on our football helmets and on our basketball uniforms.
The Block on the Helmets still is not as BOLD as the Script was on the Helmets of the Past. Nothing Should Be BOLDER & BRIGHTER than PITT SCRIPT, just my opinion.
$(KGrHqQOKkYE4BMBvq4rBOE1-UU0zg~~_35.JPG

pittminihelmet_large.jpg

The problem is that it just doesn't hold the same sentimental appeal to most Pitt fans that the script Pitt holds. It is literally no more complicated than that.
Exactly, and why it should have never been changed either and not necessary to hire any consultants to do it, like it was way back in 1997? Just stupidity and ego by one person that did other things right to be fair! But anyone blaming the fans like some here did, are just as myopic and that is a fact, not an opinion?

My core theory on public relations and marketing – and I've done it for a very long time – is that it starts with listening.
Apparently, President Gallagher in less than 4 Months on the job, did much listening, and made a "No Brainer" Decision to dump the "Straw Man" another tried to put on fans!

If you are willing to listen, and you know how to listen, your customers will usually tell you what they want. You may not always agree with their choices but really, that's irrelevant. Your job is not to dazzle people with your brilliance but rather to give them what they want in a reasonable, modern way.
In late 1960's, "Cas" another Athletic Director arrived at Pitt and did much listening, then he asked for action, then it all happen with Sponsors, Contributors, Alumni and Fans, not by Expensive Management Consultants Associates and Friends, or Ego Manic rejected by his own Alma Mater? Deafness was intentionally designed along with selfish arrogance and fans are right not support such mismanagement!

Pitt's greatest mistake under Pederson - and they made it over and over again - was they always skipped that crucial first phase. Instead, they would have a small group of men make decisions for the masses and then foist their brilliant ideas on everyone else and expect everyone to dutifully comply. That is just plain bad marketing.
Amen! I Hear You!

Remember that survey that came out last year? Well, that was the first one we ever got under Pederson. That's strange from a marketing perspective. How do you make decisions without data?
Pederson did the same at NU and was fired for it, after he left Pitt for the sole purpose to go back to NU, then was brought back by another bad decision that cost Pitt Football millions in more mistakes on marketing, coaches, recruiting, and his own buyout? Rebuilding starts with Chancellor Gallagher vision, and AD Barnes job is now to implement that vision starting yesterday!

Now, it must be said that it is entirely possible that they convened market research groups without any of us knowing about it. Frankly, given every other way they did business, that is difficult to believe but it is possible. However, even if you are doing market research, you should still be sending out surveys semi-regularly to get some broad brush data points.
I help set up many Trusts in Wills for some very wealthy Alumni and none chose to leave money to Pitt over their knowledge about how Pitt Athletics was being run. When I posted why this hurts Pitt, another Poster laughed at it....but it revealed why he was one of the Dumbest Posters I ever read on the Lair, and still is, and that is a fact too, not an opinion!
The very people that could have help rebuild the Pitt Program were isolated, turned off, and ended up not just saying but doing...."Forget about Pitt" Football and chose other for other worthy causes, and the same happen at Nebraska. Like NU President Pearl said, Pederson was better at promoting himself more than the university he was suppose to promote and his management style had to be terminated. Again, not any Alumni or Fan was responsible and anyone claiming it is just plain lame and many of those monies in those Trust have sailed away from Pitt due to such mismanagement?
After 19 Years as an Athletic Director, the simple fact remains, is that Steve Pederson could not build a Top 25 Football Program at Pitt or maintain a Top 25 Football Program at Nebraska, and Chancellor Gallagher got that is 16 weeks, after President Pearl got it in5 years?

As I said earlier, in most cases your customers will tell you exactly what they want if you are willing to listen. However, once they tell you what you want you have to have the humility and intelligence to give it to them.

The Scarecrow in the Wizard of OZ was made of "Straw" but he had a Brain and just did not know it, Pederson Brain was on himself, and the pockets of himself and his Consultants, not Pitt or NU and that was the Real Straw Man!

A new Dawn started at Pitt yesterday, let the light kill the hidden bacteria that still remains as a stain that needs to fade at Pitt!
 
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