OT - Pirates finalizing Ramirez trade

[The Loaded Italian]

Not sure what others think, but I dont mind getting Aramis back as long as we dont give up much, seeing as he is retiring after the year most likely.

Plus we have lots of good relievers in the minors. A name that hasnt been mentioned that needs to be with his Glasnow-esque numbers is Montana DuRapau, should move up to Altoona

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

If the Pirates play Ramirez at third and Alvarez at first it just might give them the worst defensive corner infield tandem in the history of major league baseball. At this point in his career Ramirez is every bit as bad a third baseman that Alvarez is, and Alvarez is probably an even worse first baseman than he was at third (and who would have thought that was even possible?).

 

[CaptainMurphy]

If the Pirates play Ramirez at third and Alvarez at first it just might give them the worst defensive corner infield tandem in the history of major league baseball. At this point in his career Ramirez is every bit as bad a third baseman that Alvarez is, and Alvarez is probably an even worse first baseman than he was at third (and who would have thought that was even possible?).

Really? Aramis has 5 errors in almost 600 innings so far this year, 10 over a full season last year. Pedro has 15 so far this year in almost 600 innings and almost 30 last year in about 3/4 season. He might not be a stellar defensive 3B (not sure of his range, etc...) but he is certainly far better than Pedro. And Pedro is probably gone soon anyways.

 

[NTOP]

If the Pirates play Ramirez at third and Alvarez at first it just might give them the worst defensive corner infield tandem in the history of major league baseball. At this point in his career Ramirez is every bit as bad a third baseman that Alvarez is, and Alvarez is probably an even worse first baseman than he was at third (and who would have thought that was even possible?).

They can't POSSIBLY be worse than Dick Allen to Dick Stuart (aka Dr. Strangeglove) Seats atPhillies games behind first base were always at a premium....high % of getting a baseball.

 

[JoseLind13]

ARam's defense is by no means horrible. He has lost some range (not that a ton of range is needed at 3b), but still has a cannon arm and pulls off some nice diving stabs at the hot corner. He won't win a gold glove, but certainly isn't the liability of Pedro in the field.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

As a guy who is a huge Brewers fans and watches them play all the time has said, if the ball is hit right at Ramirez he can still field. But he can't move at all out there anymore, so if it isn't right at him he doesn't get it. He doesn't commit a lot of errors because he can't make plays on tough chances to even possibly get an error.

 

[upj87]

As a guy who is a huge Brewers fans and watches them play all the time has said, if the ball is hit right at Ramirez he can still field. But he can't move at all out there anymore, so if it isn't right at him he doesn't get it. He doesn't commit a lot of errors because he can't make plays on tough chances to even possibly get an error.

Looks like the Pirates had this guy before he got good and now have him after he was good....Now, that's the Buccos I know.... I'm thinking he's just like Pedro at this point sans throws to the fourth row of seats....

 

[The Loaded Italian]

He has strong fielding metrics this year, 6.2 runs above average in UZR. I think the second poster is just your typical negative guy

 

[Pittbaseball11]

If the Pirates play Ramirez at third and Alvarez at first it just might give them the worst defensive corner infield tandem in the history of major league baseball. At this point in his career Ramirez is every bit as bad a third baseman that Alvarez is, and Alvarez is probably an even worse first baseman than he was at third (and who would have thought that was even possible?).

Baseball Prospectus went so far as to say this is likely the worst left side of an infield in baseball defensively -- worse even than Cleveland's earlier in the year. Given what the Pirates have on the right side, that's terrifying.

On a lighter note, WHYGAVS has already dubbed Ramirez, Kang, Walker, and Alvarez the Zoolander Infield -- can't go left. (although, they also probably can't go right)

 

[wbrpanther]

As a guy who is a huge Brewers fans and watches them play all the time has said, if the ball is hit right at Ramirez he can still field. But he can't move at all out there anymore, so if it isn't right at him he doesn't get it. He doesn't commit a lot of errors because he can't make plays on tough chances to even possibly get an error.

The man is 37 years old. The move to pick him up and play third till mercer and Jayhay get back is a no brainer. The Pirates are instantly a better ball club right now. The Pirates would be even better if they jettison Alverez, even if they play Ishikawa at first the rest of the year. He would be no worse at the plate and Alverez is killing the Bucs on defense. This from a guy who thought the world of Alverez when he came up.

 

[PA_Panther]

Wow you guys are brutal. This is a great move for the Pirates. It gives them an average 3rd basemen to fill the gap until Harrison and Mercer comeback. They literally gave up nothing for him and the brewers are paying for some of his salary. This means no light hitting Brent Morel or Pedro Floriman playing regerialy. Big upgrade for the Bench too come playoff time!

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

He has strong fielding metrics this year, 6.2 runs above average in UZR. I think the second poster is just your typical negative guy

He's also last in the NL in DWAR among qualified third basemen and was something like two up from the bottom last year. He's had a negative DWAR in seven of the last eight seasons. He was never a great defender, and now he's really old. Any fielding metrics that show him as a strong fielder in 2015 are either the victim of a small sample size or they are simply wrong.

For the people calling this a "great" move, you've simply got really, really low standards. It's an OK move, and the Pirates either had to make this move or a similar one, but at this point Ramirez is a well below average third baseman. Is he better than someone like Brent Morel over there? Sure. But not by some significant margin.

There is a reason that the Brewers took a non-prospect relief pitcher in return for Ramirez, and they also agreed to pay more than half of his salary for the rest of the season. Right now Ramirez has pretty much no value at all to anyone other than a team made desperate by injuries like the Pirates. And even with the Pirates being desperate and the Brewers being willing to pick up a large percentage of Ramirez's salary the Brewers still couldn't get even a decent prospect for him. If that isn't telling you something it's because you simply aren't listening.

The Pirates are hoping to catch lightning in a bottle over the next month or so, but if they don't they haven't given up anything significant anyway, so it's certainly worth a try.

 

[ChazzMo]

He's also last in the NL in DWAR among qualified third basemen and was something like two up from the bottom last year. He's had a negative DWAR in seven of the last eight seasons. He was never a great defender, and now he's really old. Any fielding metrics that show him as a strong fielder in 2015 are either the victim of a small sample size or they are simply wrong.

For the people calling this a "great" move, you've simply got really, really low standards. It's an OK move, and the Pirates either had to make this move or a similar one, but at this point Ramirez is a well below average third baseman. Is he better than someone like Brent Morel over there? Sure. But not by some significant margin.

There is a reason that the Brewers took a non-prospect relief pitcher in return for Ramirez, and they also agreed to pay more than half of his salary for the rest of the season. Right now Ramirez has pretty much no value at all to anyone other than a team made desperate by injuries like the Pirates. And even with the Pirates being desperate and the Brewers being willing to pick up a large percentage of Ramirez's salary the Brewers still couldn't get even a decent prospect for him. If that isn't telling you something it's because you simply aren't listening.

The Pirates are hoping to catch lightning in a bottle over the next month or so, but if they don't they haven't given up anything significant anyway, so it's certainly worth a try.

Alright, Joe - other options right now?

 

[Pittbaseball11]

For the people calling this a "great" move, you've simply got really, really low standards. It's an OK move, and the Pirates either had to make this move or a similar one, but at this point Ramirez is a well below average third baseman. Is he better than someone like Brent Morel over there? Sure. But not by some significant margin.

I think calling it a "great move" is all relative. If the Pirates had Harrison and Mercer available, is it a great move? Hell no. When your only options are Kang/Morel, Kang/Rodriguez, or Florimon/Kang? It's pretty damn good.

Once Mercer is back I can't imagine that he will be a starter anymore. His wRC+ this year is slightly below league average (Miller Park greatly inflates HRs, whereas PNC drastically suppresses them) and the defense is a definite concern -- particularly given the Pirates' philosophy.

I think Mercer/Kang is far better than Kang/Ramirez, but Ramirez also gives them a nice bench bat which they didn't really have outside of Harrison/Walker/Kang (based on who is sitting).

Based on what they gave up (literally 0), it's a fine pickup. I think he's more Justin Morneau than Marlon Byrd, personally. Probably closer to washed up than going on a fluky career-year tear.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Alright, Joe - other options right now?

Didn't I say that they pretty much had to make this deal or something similar? That's because there really aren't many options out there now. But that certainly doesn't make it a great move. It's a move that improved the team slightly. Nothing more, nothing less.

I agree with PB11, where it will help is when Mercer and/or Harrison come back it will give them a bat on the bench that might give you some pop. Something that they are sorely lacking right now. But again, that just shows that it's really a minor move and not something that anyone ought to expect gives the team a big boost.

Actually, with the results of the last two nights maybe the key is having Ramirez on the team but not actually having him around. Maybe if they keep him away a little longer they'll continue hitting the ball.