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OT: SIAP. Ice hockey player in UK being charged with manslaughter

USN_Panther

USN_Panther

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The player involved in the Adam Johnson tragedy is being charged with manslaughter.
I watched the video of the play and initially thought it was entirely accidental. Re-watching it the skate comes up more than you would think for the amount of imbalance he should have for the minimal contact he had with the other player. I don't think he was trying to slice his neck, but he may have tried to get his leg out to kick him or impede him.
Will be interesting to see what happens. Criminal charges are pretty harsh for something not totally egregious in sports IMO. It was obviously a dangerous play.
If players all wore neck guards, this incident isn't even news.
 
Laws may be different in England, but I think there’s a good chance charges stick here. Manslaughter is a charge in which someone dies, but the suspect did not intend or show malice to do so. Manslaughter is then broken down into 2 subcategories voluntary and involuntary. Voluntary manslaughter is when you kill someone when provoked. Now, the only difference between murder and voluntary manslaughter in how the court sees the provocation. It’ll be really easy to prove Petgrave killed him given that there is video, and obviously this prosecutor feels he can prove his case, so we’ll see.

Oh, an example of voluntary manslaughter would be this, because I saw something similar recently. Drink guy walked into gas station, encountered a long line of people, some of Mexican descent. He started to make inappropriate comments and got personal with his verbal assault. Well, one of the guys turns around and punches the drunk guy in the head. Drunk guy fell and hit his head on the way down, dying some days later. Welcome to voluntary manslaughter.
 
USN_Panther said:
The player involved in the Adam Johnson tragedy is being charged with manslaughter.
I watched the video of the play and initially thought it was entirely accidental. Re-watching it the skate comes up more than you would think for the amount of imbalance he should have for the minimal contact he had with the other player. I don't think he was trying to slice his neck, but he may have tried to get his leg out to kick him or impede him.
Will be interesting to see what happens. Criminal charges are pretty harsh for something not totally egregious in sports IMO. It was obviously a dangerous play.
If players all wore neck guards, this incident isn't even news.
Click to expand...
It didn’t make any sense to me when I saw the headline saying he was being charged and read the article that pretty much inferred it was completely accidental. I never saw the video of it though.

In any case, the same article went on to mention the 3 or so prior on-ice incidents where manslaughter charges were filed. In all those cases, the end result was a few months of probation.
 
NCanton Panther said:
It didn’t make any sense to me when I saw the headline saying he was being charged and read the article that pretty much inferred it was completely accidental. I never saw the video of it though.

In any case, the same article went on to mention the 3 or so prior on-ice incidents where manslaughter charges were filed. In all those cases, the end result was a few months of probation.
Click to expand...
So much depends on the skill of your defense lawyer, mood of the prosecutor, and of course the Judge. The decision by the prosecutor to negotiate a plea deal will be heavily influenced by the family of the victim who may want to go to trial.

But, even if he pleas down to a charge that sees him serve probation as penalty, there will be a staggering civil lawsuit that will likely see the overwhelming majority of any future paychecks go directly to restitution.
 
Couple things… I had intentionally not watched the video until yesterday, and when I finally did, it looked a lot worse and more intentional (not intentional “I’m trying to kill you” but international “I’m going to throw my leg out and cheap shot the guy/kick him”). I haven’t seen anything like it in the 30+ years I’ve been playing hockey and skating, and the more you watch it the more it looks like he extends his leg, skate first, towards Adam in a side-kick type motion.

Second, I don’t claim to know much about English law but when reading an article yesterday it said there is a difference in terminology compared to the US and that he was “arrested on suspicion of” and he can be compelled to speak as a result. But unless something changed he hasn’t actually been charged?
 
razzaba said:
Couple things… I had intentionally not watched the video until yesterday, and when I finally did, it looked a lot worse and more intentional (not intentional “I’m trying to kill you” but international “I’m going to throw my leg out and cheap shot the guy/kick him”). I haven’t seen anything like it in the 30+ years I’ve been playing hockey and skating, and the more you watch it the more it looks like he extends his leg, skate first, towards Adam in a side-kick type motion.

Second, I don’t claim to know much about English law but when reading an article yesterday it said there is a difference in terminology compared to the US and that he was “arrested on suspicion of” and he can be compelled to speak as a result. But unless something changed he hasn’t actually been charged?
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The weird thing is they haven’t even announced who they arrested, although we all can guess who it was. Laws in England must be different, because in the US, you can’t legally arrest someone without charges. You can detain them pending investigation, but you can only hold them for 48 hours for questioning.
 
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USN_Panther said:
The player involved in the Adam Johnson tragedy is being charged with manslaughter.
I watched the video of the play and initially thought it was entirely accidental. Re-watching it the skate comes up more than you would think for the amount of imbalance he should have for the minimal contact he had with the other player. I don't think he was trying to slice his neck, but he may have tried to get his leg out to kick him or impede him.
Will be interesting to see what happens. Criminal charges are pretty harsh for something not totally egregious in sports IMO. It was obviously a dangerous play.
If players all wore neck guards, this incident isn't even news.
Click to expand...
I saw someone discussing the fact that in England you have to level a charge like this on a person to talk to them more specifically. So it’s not necessarily a “charge” per se but a procedural thing. I don’t know. The roundhouse kick looked unusual but not necessarily deliberate.
 
NatronaHeightsPanther said:
The weird thing is they haven’t even announced who they arrested, although we all can guess who it was. Laws in England must be different, because in the US, you can’t legally arrest someone without charges. You can detain them pending investigation, but you can only hold them for 48 hours for questioning.
Click to expand...
Not sure about English law on this, but in New Zealand, nearly everyone charged but not convicted have name suppression. And many keep their names suppressed even after conviction. Not like everyone doesn't know who this is, but they probably have to keep his name suppressed by law.
 
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MorningCoffee13 said:
I saw someone discussing the fact that in England you have to level a charge like this on a person to talk to them more specifically. So it’s not necessarily a “charge” per se but a procedural thing. I don’t know. The roundhouse kick looked unusual but not necessarily deliberate.
Click to expand...
Which is why involuntary manslaughter is appropriate here. The prosecution doesn’t have to prove intent. I just read whoever was arrested was released on bail. In the US, you’ll have a preliminary arraignment where the charges are read to you. The magistrate sets the bail and your next court date which is almost always a preliminary hearing. If you make bail, you’re free unless there are conditions from the magistrate until your next court date. If you can’t make bail, off to jail you go.
 
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If you watch the video, you will see he intended to impede his play, but his skate slid up the stick of the other player and struck him in the throat. It was a horrible accident. Anyone who has played hockey can tell you that it would be very difficult to do a back or side karate kick on ice and to make contact with a players throat. Not saying this guy is not a dirty player....because he is but this is simply an accident. It's like charging the guy who hit Damar Hamlin.
 
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