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Pitt in new US News grad school rankings

CrazyPaco

Athletic Director
Jul 5, 2001
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Here is Pitt's major rankings for this year (2015*), last year (2014), five years ago (2010), and 10 years ago (2005) for those programs that received new rankings this year (not all programs are ranked every year). Bold has improved over the previous ranked year.
*note that even thought they are ranked and released in year 2015, US News markets them as "2016" rankings

category 2015 2014 2010^ 2005^
Business 48 52 79 57
Education 27 22 23 31
Engineering 43 43 48 49
Law 78 81 67 52
Med (research) 16 17 14 16
Med (1º care) 19 18 12 40
Nursing 5 - 7^ 7^
Nurse anethes. 1 - 3^ 6^
Public Heath 13 - 11^ 11^
Rehab Counsel. 18 - 23^ -
Hlth Care Mang. 30 - 25^ 25^
Physician Asst. 57 - no program

^some programs rankings in 2011 and 2003 listed (not ranked every year)




This post was edited on 3/10 8:13 PM by CrazyPaco
 
Thanks CP,

It's always a mystery to me why the law school seems to suffer.

Any thought as to why?
 
Good to see Pitt started a PA program. That field is growing.
Impressive to see them move past Penn as the #1 nurse anesth program. That's a $175,000/yr job btw, for those wondering.
WTF is up with the law school? Law school rankings are actually pretty important when trying to land a good job (or maybe I'm wrong?)
 
Thanks for the information ....... it would be interesting to know how our 2015 rankings compare to other ACC schools.
 
The law school has inched upwards for the second year in a row, but its ranking is embarrassing when you look at the schools ahead of it and where other Pitt programs land. It is the lowest ranked school at Pitt. I mean, Pitt is behind such powerhouses as Georgia State, Seton Hall, UNLV, New Mexico, and Arkansas.

In these rankings, the law school peaked at 47th in 2004, and has fallen off a cliff since then. And unfortunately, law is a discipline where US News rankings matter fairly significantly.

Part of the issue, I believe, was a change in ranking methodology a few years back.

But you'll have to ask PittLaw what the issues are.


Consider the grad rankings of the primary programs of Pitt's schools...

SHRS 4.5 (avg of PT and OT programs)
Nursing 5
SIS 10
Social Work 11
GSPH 13
Pharmacy 14
Medicine 16
Dental Med (US News does not rank, typically in top 20 of others, #18 NIH funding)
Education 27
GSPIA 33
Swanson Engineering 43
Dietrich A&S 46.7 (avg of 6 humanities and 7 science rankings)
Katz 48
Law 78

Law is the only school outside the top 50, and it isn't really even close.
 
Do you have the historical rankings for SIS? I think it was #2 or 3 when I was a started at Pitt in the late 90s, and I feel like it is slipping because the program is less of a priority for Pitt.
 
Reply

Reputation and ranking for the School of Law is more important for drawing students than it is employers. Unfortunately, a lot of kids and parents still chase rankings. Pitt Law's reputation score among legal employers was 3.2 this year (the same as last year, and up from 2.9 the prior year). Although U.S. News has not yet released Pitt Law's relative ranking on this metric this year, it should be approximately the same as last year (around 51st out of over 200 law schools, up from 90th when Dean Carter first became Dean), since our score was the same.



Pitt Law's "peer reputation" score among legal academics was 2.6 this year, the same as last year. Although U.S. News hasnot yet released Pitt's relative ranking on this metric this year, Pitt Law faculty's ranking should be approximately the same as last year (around 55th out of over 200 law schools), since Pitt's score was the same as last year.



Pitt Law's job placement rate for the Class of 2013 at the "nine months after graduation" mark, as measured by U.S. News's methodology, placed Pitt third among the eight law schools in Pennsylvania this year, up from fourth in PA for the Class of 2012. Pitt was behind Penn and only very slightly (2%) behind Temple this year. Pitt Law was ahead of Villanova, Penn State, Duquesne, Widener, and Drexel.

Pitt Law does not measure as well in the U.S. News metrics due primarily to a couple of factors, which include dollars spent per student on education, size of the library collection, and alumni support. Dean Carter is doing an excellent job since taking over...and I expect the rankings to continue to climb. U.S. News ranking still does not, in my opinion, match the actual quality of our law school. The school continue to work on many "U.S. News" factors in order to climb out of the hole it was in prior to Dean Carter. It is a slow process. Hail to Pitt!
 
Originally posted by CrazyPaco:
The law school has inched upwards for the second year in a row, but its ranking is embarrassing when you look at the schools ahead of it and where other Pitt programs land. It is the lowest ranked school at Pitt. I mean, Pitt is behind such powerhouses as Georgia State, Seton Hall, UNLV, New Mexico, and Arkansas.

In these rankings, the law school peaked at 47th in 2004, and has fallen off a cliff since then. And unfortunately, law is a discipline where US News rankings matter fairly significantly.

Part of the issue, I believe, was a change in ranking methodology a few years back.

But you'll have to ask PittLaw what the issues are.


Consider the grad rankings of the primary programs of Pitt's schools...

SHRS 4.5 (avg of PT and OT programs)
Nursing 5
SIS 10
Social Work 11
GSPH 13
Pharmacy 14
Medicine 16
Dental Med (US News does not rank, typically in top 20 of others, #18 NIH funding)
Education 27
GSPIA 33
Swanson Engineering 43
Dietrich A&S 46.7 (avg of 6 humanities and 7 science rankings)
Katz 48
Law 78

Law is the only school outside the top 50, and it isn't really even close.
I am just amazed at what has happened to GSPIA since I went there (1978 to 1980). At that time, it was ranked among the top ten nationally.
 
Originally posted by Pitt79:

What does this have to do with football?
I'm totally cool with this being on the Football board. Only other place would be locker room but I'm sure it would get lost in the weeds among the political, religion, and conspiracy posts.

It's nice to see how the school is doing in regards to all these programs. It sparks convos on here from posters that probably would have never clicked on the locker room board.
 
Reply

Sadly, the programs that do not attract significant sponsored research are going to struggle at Pitt, other than in very limited circumstances. The Chancellor and Provost direct university money to those programs that show the greatest return on investment. Such is life at a public university in a state that provides bottom 10 level funding for higher education. Hail to Pitt!
 
Re: Reply

Originally posted by PITTLAW:
Reputation and ranking for the School of Law is more important for drawing students than it is employers. Unfortunately, a lot of kids and parents still chase rankings. Pitt Law's reputation score among legal employers was 3.2 this year (the same as last year, and up from 2.9 the prior year). Although U.S. News has not yet released Pitt Law's relative ranking on this metric this year, it should be approximately the same as last year (around 51st out of over 200 law schools, up from 90th when Dean Carter first became Dean), since our score was the same.




Pitt Law's "peer reputation" score among legal academics was 2.6 this year, the same as last year. Although U.S. News hasnot yet released Pitt's relative ranking on this metric this year, Pitt Law faculty's ranking should be approximately the same as last year (around 55th out of over 200 law schools), since Pitt's score was the same as last year.



Pitt Law's job placement rate for the Class of 2013 at the "nine months after graduation" mark, as measured by U.S. News's methodology, placed Pitt third among the eight law schools in Pennsylvania this year, up from fourth in PA for the Class of 2012. Pitt was behind Penn and only very slightly (2%) behind Temple this year. Pitt Law was ahead of Villanova, Penn State, Duquesne, Widener, and Drexel.

Pitt Law does not measure as well in the U.S. News metrics due primarily to a couple of factors, which include dollars spent per student on education, size of the library collection, and alumni support. Dean Carter is doing an excellent job since taking over...and I expect the rankings to continue to climb. U.S. News ranking still does not, in my opinion, match the actual quality of our law school. The school continue to work on many "U.S. News" factors in order to climb out of the hole it was in prior to Dean Carter. It is a slow process. Hail to Pitt!
PittLaw,

Just for curiousity's sake, do you have stats on the law school attendees undergrad schools? What percentage is from Pitt, and what percentage is from outside of Pitt?

Again, no point trying to be made from me, just curious.
 
Originally posted by HailtoPitt:
Do you have the historical rankings for SIS? I think it was #2 or 3 when I was a started at Pitt in the late 90s, and I feel like it is slipping because the program is less of a priority for Pitt.
This is what I have for SIS....remember that this field isn't ranked every year....

1996 #5
1999 #3
2000 #3
2009 #10
2013 #10

I don't know if you can't always chop it up as "less of a priority". Sometimes ranking methodologies change. Those earlier rankings were often conducted differently, and weren't accompanied by the publicity campaigns and what not that seems to accompany these things today. Rate of survey participation can vary. There can be quite a big of wobble.



This post was edited on 3/11 6:32 PM by CrazyPaco
 
Re: Reply


Originally posted by PITTLAW:
Reputation and ranking for the School of Law is more important for drawing students than it is employers. Unfortunately, a lot of kids and parents still chase rankings. Pitt Law's reputation score among legal employers was 3.2 this year (the same as last year, and up from 2.9 the prior year). Although U.S. News has not yet released Pitt Law's relative ranking on this metric this year, it should be approximately the same as last year (around 51st out of over 200 law schools, up from 90th when Dean Carter first became Dean), since our score was the same.



Pitt Law's "peer reputation" score among legal academics was 2.6 this year, the same as last year. Although U.S. News hasnot yet released Pitt's relative ranking on this metric this year, Pitt Law faculty's ranking should be approximately the same as last year (around 55th out of over 200 law schools), since Pitt's score was the same as last year.



Pitt Law's job placement rate for the Class of 2013 at the "nine months after graduation" mark, as measured by U.S. News's methodology, placed Pitt third among the eight law schools in Pennsylvania this year, up from fourth in PA for the Class of 2012. Pitt was behind Penn and only very slightly (2%) behind Temple this year. Pitt Law was ahead of Villanova, Penn State, Duquesne, Widener, and Drexel.

Pitt Law does not measure as well in the U.S. News metrics due primarily to a couple of factors, which include dollars spent per student on education, size of the library collection, and alumni support. Dean Carter is doing an excellent job since taking over...and I expect the rankings to continue to climb. U.S. News ranking still does not, in my opinion, match the actual quality of our law school. The school continue to work on many "U.S. News" factors in order to climb out of the hole it was in prior to Dean Carter. It is a slow process. Hail to Pitt!
Thanks for that. Good to know you have a positive impression of Carter.

Total volumes in the Law library is only weighted by 0.0075 of the overall score, but that seems like the easiest thing improve on. Also sort of shocking considering the Pitt's library, overall, is 21st largest university library in the country and the law school is 120 years old, not to mention Barco is a federal depository library.

Pitt's health care law program used to be ranked has always been around 10-15.... The free version of US News cuts off at 11, but hopefully Pitt is maintaining its standing there. Obviously, it is a natural nexus with Pitt's health sciences. One might think UPMC might be led to see a mutually beneficial interest in supporting, or collaborating, with that program in some fashion.

This post was edited on 3/11 6:58 PM by CrazyPaco
 
Originally posted by TempleBAPittMPA:
I am just amazed at what has happened to GSPIA since I went there (1978 to 1980). At that time, it was ranked among the top ten nationally.
US News rankings don't go back that far. I believe the first undergrad rankings came out in 1983 and they weren't annual for a while. Grad rankings, I'm not sure.

In Public Affairs, the historical rankings that I have are as follows (again, not ranked every year).

1998 #20
1999 #20
2000 #20
2001 #19
2004 #21
2008 #27
2012 #33
 
Originally posted by CrazyPaco:

Originally posted by TempleBAPittMPA:

I am just amazed at what has happened to GSPIA since I went there (1978 to 1980). At that time, it was ranked among the top ten nationally.
US News rankings don't go back that far. I believe the first undergrad rankings came out in 1983 and they weren't annual for a while. Grad rankings, I'm not sure.

In Public Affairs, the historical rankings that I have are as follows (again, not ranked every year).

1998 #20
1999 #20
2000 #20
2001 #19
2004 #21
2008 #27
2012 #33
My frame of reference was NASPAA ratings (I think the acronym stands for National Association of Schools of Public Affairs and Administration), but it's been years since I've seen those.
 
In general law schools problems are there are too many law schools graduating too many students.

Market forces of supply and demand resulting in too few jobs with significantly reduced starting salaries.

In the last several years the number of applicants applying to law schools have decreased by 40%.

Only way to improve quality of most law schools would be to decrease law school size to maintain/increase quality (GPA,LSAT Scores etc) of 1st year law students.

I believe Pitt has reduced the size of the incoming law class. Maybe, it should be reduced even more. Thoughts

I enjoy these threads discussing Pitt from an academic and research perspective and subsequent ranking in national/global publications.

Keep them coming.

Pitt is truly a great University.

HAIL TO PITT!!!!
 
Reply

Considering that NOBODY, and I mean NOBODY, does legal research these days by looking at paper books...it is one of the most absurd measures possible. It measures volume, as opposed to relevance or importance--just plain stupid. Anyone that does legal research these days uses either electronic resources, including traditional online services such as WestLaw or Lexis. Additionally, the measure of expeditures per student is simply one of the silliest measures you can possible imagine. It penalizes schools that are efficient, as well as encourages accounting tricks [which Pitt refuses to play]. The Dean, Provost and University are all looking at this and have been for a little over two years attempting to put resources wherever possible to postively influence the U.S. News numbers. That said, the University simply is unwilling to invest significant resources in the School of Law as the ROI is unfortunately not there.

As for the certificate programs and clinical experiences...there are serveral which are still very highly regarded--including health law. These programs are very expensive to run [at least $1 million per program], and have an unquantifiable impact on U.S. News numbers--other than the expenditures number. The programs are mostly a marketing "gimic" to attract students. Students love them. Most employers are indifferent to the programs. So Pitt tries to strike a balance in offering programs that are top notch to satisfy student demand and for marketing purposes--while keeping within its very scarce resources. See links below to present clinic programs offered:
Taxpayer Clinic

Taxpayer Clinic provides opportunities to gain practical lawyering skills while representing low-income taxpayers before the Internal Revenue Service.
Elder Law Clinic

In the Elder Law Clinic, students represent low-income older adults and/or their family members in a variety of legal matters.
Environmental Law Clinic

Working largely in the areas of water quality, water rights, mining, solid waste disposal, and land use, the Environmental Law Clinic represents low-income clients in matters ranging from legislative drafting to litigation to client counseling.
Family Law Clinic

The Family Law Clinic assists indigent pro se litigants with family-law issues primarily involving custody, child support, and paternity, as well as secondary family-law issues.
Health Law Clinic

The Health Law Clinic serves low-income individuals with health-related legal problems, including ones that prevent them from working and/or result in their losing access to health care.
Immigration Law Clinic

Students in the Immigration Law Clinic represent immigrants requesting asylum, facing removal from the United States, and seeking special protection under the Violence Against Women Act. Students also help clients to overcome linguistic and cultural barriers that could impede their success in the U.S. legal system.
Securities Arbitration Clinic

In the Securities Arbitration Clinic, students represent small investors in disputes with their broker-dealer through the Financial Industry Regulatory Authority (FINRA) mandatory arbitration proceedings and/or the mediation alternative offered through FINRA.- See more at: http://www.law.pitt.edu/academics/juris-doctor/clinics#sthash.VwAGZBm0.dpuf

Plans are in the works to offer an Intellectual Property Clinic, a subject near and dear to my heart;)

Much like athletics, if Pitt Law really wants to up its game...it is going to take a much better effort at fundraising and private support. Hail to Pitt!
 
Reply

You are 100% correct that Pitt Law has significantly reduced its size of the first year class for the past two years. The class size is intentionally down nearly 100 students. This was done to react to the market demand for newly minted lawyers. It also has enabled Pitt to maintain [or at least very close] its average class rank and LSAT scores for incoming students...and had the also intened outcome of helping placement numbers [fewer grads to find jobs for]. Unfortunately this is not likely a sustainable model...as it is costing Pitt a couple million dollars in tuition revenue. So far the Provost is sucking it up and taking the hit. Long term, it really is very hard to say what will happen. There is expectation that these market pressures will push some of the weaker schools out of the market. The legal education business is very troubled at the moment...but Pitt Law is looking for ways to take advantage of the upheaval opportunity and to gain on the competition. No easy or inexpensive solutions unfortunately. Hail to Pitt!
 
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