Rossi's article on MLS in Pittsburgh

[Sean Miller Fan]

http://triblive.com/sports/riverhounds/8554492-74/soccer-pittsburgh-riverhounds#axzz3d8kG6YJA

He is way more optimistic than I am on the city landing an MLS team, but I've been saying for a few years to keep an eye on this. The MLS is experiencing massive growth, so much so that Commissioner Don Garber's original plan to grow to 24 teams by 2020 is now being re-thought and with so many "minor league" soccer cities just killing it in attendance and interest, they may not have any choice but to eventually get to at least 30.

Now, Rossi's and Shallenberger's (Riverhounds owner) idea of adding 13,000 seats to Highmark Stadium and having an MLS team play there is beyond ridiculous. The idea of of adding seats over top of West Carson street and having cars literallly tunnel through your stadium simply is never going to happen and with so many attractive MLS expansion markets, Pittsburgh would have to have a much better stadium plan than that. Heck, Sacramento's USL side averages like 20K per game and already agreed to build a soccer-specific stadium downtown and they weren't picked.

With the MLS granting an expansion team to the Atlanta Falcons' owners to play in the new downtown stadium (with awesome "downsizing" technology) and with reports that Beckham's MLS Miami group may partner with the University of Miami for a joint stadium, I believe that a possibility exists in the future for 1 of 2 things:

1. A joint Pitt/MLS stadium

2. A new Steelers' stadium (Heinz Field sucks by NFL standards). 65K is too small for the Steelers. I know they've had empty seats but with their wait list for season tickets, they can add many more seats and still sell them as season tickets. Nobody has a demand like the Steelers. If I were the Rooneys, I'd be looking at something like an 80K retractable dome stadium (so they can get Super Bowls, Final Fours, and a bowl game) that can be downsized to 45K for Pitt games using similar downsizing technology as the Falcons and downsized further to maybe around 20K for a Pittsburgh MLS team and HS football games.

As for converting the fields from NFL to college to soccer, the Rooneys have 2 fields that they switch out. I'm sure its not a cheap conversion but they do it 6-7 times per year during the Cowboys season. This is something that could be done in the new stadium.

 

[Pitt79]

A joint Pitt/MLS Stadium? Even in the above average MLS cities, average attendance tops out in the low 20,000s, Pitt football needs way more than that, even if they don't become more relevant.

But it is true, soccer is gaining popularity, I never played as a kid, other than playing GK for a Pitt rec team when I was in grad school ! Western PA was never into soccer back then. But my daughter has been playing for 6 years and now a really like it. Eventually, it may seriously overtake football, not now, not in 10 years, but someday.

American football IMO is KILLING ITSELF! I currently am a soccer fan, I follow DC United, and the US men's team and have favorites in Europe. Here's what I like best about the sport... No stoppages, no commercials, no instant replay, no anal anything! Meanwhile, in American football every 10 seconds somebody flinches or bobbles a ball and causes a 10 minute delay and it's beyond depressing. In soccer they have very few rules and never change them in 100 years, in American football they add 100 new rules every year and make the game more and more depressing every time they do it.

That said, I think it will be awhile before Pittsburgh gets an MLS team. I'm pretty sure the Riverhounds have trouble filling their 4000 seat stadium, as nice as it is and have been in bancruptcy recently.

 

[Pitt79]

Plus Heinz Field is only 14 years old, they ain't replacing it anytime soon.

 

[Saboteur]

http://triblive.com/sports/riverhounds/8554492-74/soccer-pittsburgh-riverhounds#axzz3d8kG6YJA

He is way more optimistic than I am on the city landing an MLS team, but I've been saying for a few years to keep an eye on this. The MLS is experiencing massive growth, so much so that Commissioner Don Garber's original plan to grow to 24 teams by 2020 is now being re-thought and with so many "minor league" soccer cities just killing it in attendance and interest, they may not have any choice but to eventually get to at least 30.

Now, Rossi's and Shallenberger's (Riverhounds owner) idea of adding 13,000 seats to Highmark Stadium and having an MLS team play there is beyond ridiculous. The idea of of adding seats over top of West Carson street and having cars literallly tunnel through your stadium simply is never going to happen and with so many attractive MLS expansion markets, Pittsburgh would have to have a much better stadium plan than that. Heck, Sacramento's USL side averages like 20K per game and already agreed to build a soccer-specific stadium downtown and they weren't picked.

With the MLS granting an expansion team to the Atlanta Falcons' owners to play in the new downtown stadium (with awesome "downsizing" technology) and with reports that Beckham's MLS Miami group may partner with the University of Miami for a joint stadium, I believe that a possibility exists in the future for 1 of 2 things:

1. A joint Pitt/MLS stadium

2. A new Steelers' stadium (Heinz Field sucks by NFL standards). 65K is too small for the Steelers. I know they've had empty seats but with their wait list for season tickets, they can add many more seats and still sell them as season tickets. Nobody has a demand like the Steelers. If I were the Rooneys, I'd be looking at something like an 80K retractable dome stadium (so they can get Super Bowls, Final Fours, and a bowl game) that can be downsized to 45K for Pitt games using similar downsizing technology as the Falcons and downsized further to maybe around 20K for a Pittsburgh MLS team and HS football games.

As for converting the fields from NFL to college to soccer, the Rooneys have 2 fields that they switch out. I'm sure its not a cheap conversion but they do it 6-7 times per year during the Cowboys season. This is something that could be done in the new stadium.

View embedded media

Madison Square Garden and the Palestra have trains that run beneath them...so too City Hall in Philly.
I see soccer as the game all kids play and all kids watch. Plus, you can actually readily predict the time the game ends.

 

[Pitt79]

Plus, you can actually readily predict the time the game ends.

That's another thing I like, it fits neatly into that 2 hour window! I am so sick of things like overtime playoff hockey, the end of basketball or football games where the last minute takes a half hour, constant stoppages for reviews in every Americanized sport-I don't care about "getting it right" 110% of the time, it's just entertainment to me, I'm not entertained by watching a guy under a hood for 5 minutes, I'd rather have mistakes happen every once in a while than go through that! And IMO they often still get it wrong. I have no problem with ties even, having a problem with ties is more American BS.

 

[HailtoPitt]

Isn't UM doing something like this?

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

A joint Pitt/MLS Stadium? Even in the above average MLS cities, average attendance tops out in the low 20,000s, Pitt football needs way more than that, even if they don't become more relevant.

A joint Pitt/MLS stadium would seat around 45K-50K because Pitt would need that many seats, but would be downsized (hopefully with built-in downsizing technology) to around 20K for MLS.

As far as Heinz Field goes, its probably the worst new NFL stadium that was built in this new building boom era. Its already 14 years old. The Georgia Dome is only 23 years old and is being replaced. Turner Field will be only 19 years old when its final pitch is thrown. FedEx Field is only 18 years old and the Snyders are demanding a new stadium. The Rams's Edward Jones Dome is only 20 years old and they are threatening to move if they don't get a new stadium. Three Rivers Stadium was only 30 years old.

Heinz is already 14 years old. I'm not saying they're going to need a new stadium now but........in 10 years? Its an awful stadium by NFL standards. I can see the Steelers going with a mini-JerryWorld model with more seats, more boxes, more club seating, etc.

 

[happjack]

How is Heinz Field the worst NFL stadium of it's era? I've been to Cleveland, New Solider Field in Chicago, Cincy, Detroit and Tampa and there really isn't that much of a difference in my opinion.

I can't see the Commonwealth giving the Steelers and Eagles a penny for new stadiums, but both will most likely get government money to keep upgrading what they already have.

Where are the 20,000 to 25,000 fans who'd goto a Pittsburgh MLS team game? The competition for the entertainment dollar is tough when you have three established pro teams, a college football team that draws around 40,000, a college basketball team that draws 12,000 along with all of the non-sports entertainment out there. I would say the same thing to anyone who'd bring up a NBA team coming to the city.

 

[pittdan77]

Heinz is a dump. From the terrible playing surface on up to the straight up climb in the upper deck. Sorry. It's just a dump. The taxpayers of PA should be outraged.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

I just don't think there's enough room in this market for another team. The MLS would flop up here worse than the NBA.

We don't have a venue, a strong local soccer base, or a large international community/immigrant population. Even worse, the MLS is expanding slowly in two types of cities: 1.) the enormous markets that are overflowing with corporate sponsorship opportunities (New York, Chicago, Los Angeles. etc.) and; 2.) medium sized cities that don't have any/many other professional sports (Portland, Columbus, Orlando, etc.). We don't fit either of those profiles.

Please note that is not an anti-soccer opinion, it's just reality

 

[Panther Parrothead]

How is Heinz Field the worst NFL stadium of it's era? I've been to Cleveland, New Solider Field in Chicago, Cincy, Detroit and Tampa and there really isn't that much of a difference in my opinion.

I don't think that Heinz Field is the worst stadium. But that doesn't change my opinion that it sucks.

This is arguable, but when a new stadium is built, IMHO it should be nice enough that it could be ranked in the Top Ten stadiums of that sport for which it was built. I could be wrong, but I don't think that Heinz Field was ever ranked that high on any survey, even when it was brand new.

PNC Park was "done right". It's clear that the planners and architects took some time and built something that they wanted to be proud of. Heinz Field, on the other hand, looks as though it was quickly and haphazardly thrown together with a gigantic Erector Set. I could list any number of complaints, but some are as basic as an insufficient number of escalators and insufficient leg room. These are problems that should've easily been avoided waaaay back on the drawing board.

Three Rivers Stadium lasted for thirty years. I'll be surprised if Heinz Field is around that long.

 

[TempleBAPittMPA]

Madison Square Garden and the Palestra have trains that run beneath them...so too City Hall in Philly.

The key there is "trains running beneath". Those are examples of trains running underground, not automobile traffic at street level.

 

[Saboteur]

The key there is "trains running beneath". Those are examples of trains running underground, not automobile traffic at street level.

Actually there is a nearby example, but it is not sports related.
Take a drive someday on Ohio Route 7 from Steubenville to East Liverpool. It is actually a scenic drive. As you approach Liverpool, you drive beneath a First Energy Coal Burning Power plant.....all 4 lanes of Rt 7 go beneath a portion of the plant.
Interesting and I suspect in Europe there are many examples....but that is a guess on my part.
The power plant isn't a guess.

 

[OmarLittle]

I personally would love an MLS team, more than an NBA team which I would love also..More than hockey.

Unfortunately I also think both would fail, if they aren't championship contenders. Same as hockey, if we didn't have the best players in the world here for 30 years NHL would fail miserably as well. NBA and MLS would need a giant stretch of luck/help that the Pens were fortunate enough to get, and that isn't likely.

 

[PatO1547]

A joint stadium...AND the Steelers leaving Heinz...this is a joke right?!

 

[drunkinoakland]

A joint Pitt/MLS stadium would seat around 45K-50K because Pitt would need that many seats, but would be downsized (hopefully with built-in downsizing technology) to around 20K for MLS.

As far as Heinz Field goes, its probably the worst new NFL stadium that was built in this new building boom era. Its already 14 years old. The Georgia Dome is only 23 years old and is being replaced. Turner Field will be only 19 years old when its final pitch is thrown. FedEx Field is only 18 years old and the Snyders are demanding a new stadium. The Rams's Edward Jones Dome is only 20 years old and they are threatening to move if they don't get a new stadium. Three Rivers Stadium was only 30 years old.

Heinz is already 14 years old. I'm not saying they're going to need a new stadium now but........in 10 years? Its an awful stadium by NFL standards. I can see the Steelers going with a mini-JerryWorld model with more seats, more boxes, more club seating, etc.

Ive watched games in 8 nfl stadiums and 5 more college stadiums. For 3 of those games I was in the press box. I hate Heinz and the Steelers but Heinz blows them away.

 

[levance2]

Ive watched games in 8 nfl stadiums and 5 more college stadiums. For 3 of those games I was in the press box. I hate Heinz and the Steelers but Heinz blows them away.

Heinz gets a bad rap in Pittsburgh, and I don't like it either, but it is moderately well regarded nationally. I think many here compare it to PNC Park, which is regarded as one of the top parks in all of MLB. By comparison, yes, Heinz is pretty terrible.

Whether accurate or not, I think people think the basic design of Heinz is seen by many outside of PGH as a representation of our city and the Steelers. Here, we have more practical experience and view on it.

 

[pittdan77]

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

It's a friggin football stadium.
Not a luxury hotel.

 

[HailtoPitt]

It's a friggin football stadium.
Not a luxury hotel.

This should be your reply when people suggest that a new Pitt stadium would cost at least $500 million.

 

[geeman2001]

Heinz is no worse than the stadiums in Cincinnati and Cleveland. I haven't seen others. But it definitely isn't a dump. The field itself was an outright disgrace for far too many years, and field turf would still be a smart move. But at least the grass is a little better the past couple years.

That said, the trends in places like Dallas and Atlanta will definitely have the Steelers demanding a much more elaborate, revenue generating facility in a decade. Doubt they can destroy Heinz to do it during a standard off season, and there is no longer any space next to it (like there was when Heinz was being built). So it's very likely the Steelers will get a surrounding county to build them a new opulent stadium someday. It simply is the trend. Competing counties WILL happily bid on doing it. And the Steelers WILL move outside of downtown if they get the right deal.

About all that can stop this is if football loses its giant popularity or if it becomes so unsafe that the government forces draconian safety limits that neuter the game.

Then the question will be, can Heinz be left to Pitt to play in (we can finally do what we want to reduce the seating, but likely would be stuck with the maintenance; doubt the stadium authority would continue with it). Or, depending where and how far, could Pitt move with the Steelers? I can't see it feasible with having to transport students. But maybe Pitt can play a couple high profile games a year at the Steeler stadium. Again, these predictions are providing all stays somewhat the same as now, as far as popularity of the sport and the respective teams. ... that could change drastically. But if not, it's silly to think the Steelers would stay put if Heinz can't be upgraded significantly in the future. They'll never allow other teams to leap above them like Dallas and (soon) Atlanta already have.

 

[levance2]

The current Heinz lease lasts until 2031 and the naming rights from Heinz last until 2021. There is no imminent move coming. By 2031, I imagine some push from certain parties, however.

 

[Pitt is #1]

Pretty sure the Steelers next move is to Washington or Butler County. I still think you will see the Mon-Fayette Expessway completed by then and UPMC expanding further down below Bates. I think Heinz works for Pitt as long as the Steelers are there. The land Heinz sits on is too valuable for 6 Pitt home games a year and a concert or two. It will be torn down if that is it's sole use. Like it or not...I think Pitt will eventually build a stadium of its own. Most likely out of necessity to survive in the college football world.