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Some Info Over July 4th Weekend!

That makes sense...but it is short sighted. The same type of short sightedness that Steve pederson brought to Pitt. One can only hope that (in the case of PSU) that this type of thinking does not prevail, IF PSU wants to be taken seriously in the Big Ten. face some serious facts, PSU is clearly behind MSU, is getting beat regularly by an OSU that is light years ahead and now faces a rejuvinated Michigan. all teams within the division.
OSU faced Wisconsin, Alabama and Oregon in 3 straight games to win the NC. THIS AFTER THEY LOST AT HOME TO VTECH. The theory that playing and losing an OC games to a mediocre P5 team is a death wish was disproven in YEAR 1 of a playoff system. Adding more teams to playoff further erodes that discredited theory.


Your example of OSU is actually what I would have used to support my viewpoint on OOC. If they go to a P4 and stay with four berths, OOC will mean nothing except for seeding. OSU was the #4 seed and still won the whole thing.

In regards to our standing in the B1G, I disagree. Right now, it is OSU and then everyone else. I don't hold D'Antonio out to be the genius that everyone else does. Not saying I am right, but that's my opinion. Right now MSU is definitely better than PSU but I believe that gap can be closed very quickly. Michigan is on par with us right now. Harbaugh is a great hire but he's also a loon. I think Penn State could keep pace with UM. OSU is a whole different story.
 
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well, Michigan certainly got the much better coach than UPS (well, outside of being on Colin Cowher hah), and OSU, Wisky, Iowa and Nebraska are all solid.
I would guess UPS would be around 5-6 in that relatively weak league.
 
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Check back in when ups beats a good team. :cool:

Your example of OSU is actually what I would have used to support my viewpoint on OOC. If they go to a P4 and stay with four berths, OOC will mean nothing except for seeding. OSU was the #4 seed and still won the whole thing.

In regards to our standing in the B1G, I disagree. Right now, it is OSU and then everyone else. I don't hold D'Antonio out to be the genius that everyone else does. Not saying I am right, but that's my opinion. Right now MSU is definitely better than PSU but I believe that gap can be closed very quickly. Michigan is on par with us right now. Harbaugh is a great hire but he's also a loon. I think Penn State could keep pace with UM. OSU is a whole different story.
 
well, Michigan certainly got the much better coach than UPS (well, outside of being on Colin Cowher hah), and OSU, Wisky, Iowa and Nebraska are all solid.
I would guess UPS would be around 5-6 in that relatively weak league.

Not sure how the B1G would be considered weak but that's fine. Wisky, Iowa and Nebraska don't really matter to PSU since they are on the other side.

I'm not ready to hang Franklin out to dry just yet. We'll see how the offense improves this year and take it from there.
 
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Your example of OSU is actually what I would have used to support my viewpoint on OOC. If they go to a P4 and stay with four berths, OOC will mean nothing except for seeding. OSU was the #4 seed and still won the whole thing.

In regards to our standing in the B1G, I disagree. Right now, it is OSU and then everyone else. I don't hold D'Antonio out to be the genius that everyone else does. Not saying I am right, but that's my opinion. Right now MSU is definitely better than PSU but I believe that gap can be closed very quickly. Michigan is on par with us right now. Harbaugh is a great hire but he's also a loon. I think Penn State could keep pace with UM. OSU is a whole different story.
I agree that harbaugh is a loon....but an effective one thus far. His shelf life is highly questionable.D'Antonio is no genius. But he has achieved much and (and this is important) has done so without cheating.
I don't get the Big ten hate...OSU won the NC and smoked tough teams along the way. there is serious imbalance between the two divisions and history suggested that there would be imbalance.
 
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kjb32812 said... I know this post/comment will not be liked but here goes.
KJB, I really don't care what Posters on the Lair like or dislike, so long as they respond when they do with their own thoughts, facts or opinions with some substance behind them. It is and will always be the only way to learn. The same holds for visitors and that include great Posters from BWI & Mountaineer Boards, as far as I am concern? So, speak away and I am sure others will respond to your posts, and so be it!

Many people feel that us playing PITT is a no-win situation.
Well, I just think that is silly considering the History of College Football and most Schools in the same States do play each other??? This small minded, and many times when Penn State was not even a University, Pitt played Penn State even if it was a No Win Situation for them?

Win and we were supposed to. Lose and it makes us look bad and we possibly lose out on the recruiting stranglehold we have on PA.
Wow, that is like living life in Cocoon, free from any challenges, and afraid of losing, that is sad for anyone thinking that way. I am not saying that to you, i am saying that as a overall statement for any Football Program thinking like that and why play at all?

TBH, I don't know where I stand on this.
Good, I can respect that kind of honesty and why I enjoy your postings, if we agree to disagree? Joe Paterno did not have that kind of honesty (Later Proven Among Other Non-Compliance Scandal) when he ended the series on his terms.

And to be fair, neither did Steve Pederson (Never Did Have Honesty Except For His Ego Pockets) when he ended the PITT series with WVU! Both to me proved to be Small when with Smaller Minds, thinking that way and putting their small thoughts before College Football History!!! The Brawl was one of the first Radio Broadcast!


At first I wanted to play PITT every year because it would be a rivalry, something we don't currently have. After more thought, I'm not so sure. I know that folks on here don't like the 2:1 deal but is it really in Penn State's best interest to take a 1:1 every year considering all of the circumstances?
So what, you do that to Temple and that hurts Temple Football and Commonwealth Coffers and Citizens Taxpayers and City Economics. The PITT-Penn State Series is and always has been a National Game as well, and that hurts both Schools and our Commonwealth. When Penn State had a small stadium and smaller school Pitt played them when it was a National Power and Paterno was in Diapers. When Penn State asked to be taken off the Schedule because they were being beaten badly for over 10 straight years, Pitt complied and allow that to happen. It was not in pitt interests to play PSU back then either. Dr. Sutherland always said, Pitt only wants to play against the best and PSU was not that at all?

When it was hard for the Media to travel to Penn State the Game was played at Pitt where it could be covered Nationally for 25 Straight Years and Penn State was winning those games. Yet, every other year PITT gave all that Games Receipts to Penn state has if it was a Home Game for them, and that benefited and help the Penn State Program to grow! This is when better Academic Minds prevailed Rival schools benefited from each other!

I don't know. Thoughts?
I always say, Smart Beats Dumb, Playing The Best Even If Beaten Teaches One To Learn & Meet Such Challenges, And Pitt, Penn State, and WVU are better playing each other every year!

Finally, I cannot attack Penn State for avoiding playing Pitt when Pitt avoids WVU, and all 3 Universities have to rise above the Small Minded, and become Class Acts again!
 
Enjoyed the info, but, loose lips sink ships. I hope my attorney doesn't talk about my business at parties.
We are not at War and this isn't a matter of National Security and names were not mention, but the Penn State Ticket situation was good info that I did not know about, and confirmed by PITT and PSU Posters here. To me, I wanted to learn more from it, and see if the Info was accurate!

I also learned other things and I did not post them due to be asked to keep it to myself until later announced and I never betray a persons confidence when given such info, and that is just being dependable while learning things.

Although I appreciate your concerns, I was just happy to have a great time, have great food and drinks, see a view of the Fireworks better than most, and sat back as topics on sports, religion and politics was exchanged and some got heated and some was great banter too!


Good posts from you!
 
That makes sense...but it is short sighted. The same type of short sightedness that Steve pederson brought to Pitt. One can only hope that (in the case of PSU) that this type of thinking does not prevail, IF PSU wants to be taken seriously in the Big Ten. face some serious facts, PSU is clearly behind MSU, is getting beat regularly by an OSU that is light years ahead and now faces a rejuvinated Michigan. all teams within the division.
OSU faced Wisconsin, Alabama and Oregon in 3 straight games to win the NC. THIS AFTER THEY LOST AT HOME TO VTECH. The theory that playing and losing an OC games to a mediocre P5 team is a death wish was disproven in YEAR 1 of a playoff system. Adding more teams to playoff further erodes that discredited theory.
Going through the thread and you beat me to some points, Thanks and great posting on the subject! If I repeated some of your comments in prior posts it was due to not reading yours and all first, I post one at a time and respond that way too!

Starkey was thinking the same thing on the 4th of July on the Back Yard Brawl! Apologies if I stepped on your postings, did not intend to do so!
 
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Penn State attendance will get better but not consistent full capacity like it was during the early-to-mid 00's when they expanded the stadium. Couple reasons (some obvious) -

1.) STEP program (increased cost of tickets & outrageous parking costs)
2.) The B1G is bad (there is and always will be a WIDE gap between UM, MSU & OSU and Maryland, Rutgers, Indiana, Illinois, etc.)
3.) OOC is boring (although Pitt on schedule '16-'19 and WVU & VT in future years as well should be exciting though)
4.) Team is not that good yet (probably will not be a top 15 to 20 finisher until '16 or '17)
Good points, and at least Delany B1G Commissioner gets it.......When he added UMD & Rutgers near Penn State he knew Penn State Traveling RV Alumni Fleet will be going to those games, and help selling out those Stadiums too!

In the end, more money for all 3 Big Ten Programs, throw in OSU & Michigan Travel Alumni too, though farther than PSU fans being able to go to games at UMD & RU!
Smart Beats Dumb!
 
PSU has one maybe two sellouts. Either OSU or Michigan. But the OCC schedule impacts tickets, travel, food and motel sales, parking plus game tickets. Who wants to see Buffalo and spend up to 300 dollars in the above. I think the product will be better but the fact remains PSU simply is not a power in the BG1 except in alumni numbers and revenue. As to football, PSU has 1 outright championship in 20 years, and that was 1994. Franklin as a head coach is hardly proven. His record is pretty bad vs good teams. IMHO college football will continue a drain of fan attendance due to costs, HDTV and overall change in fans apathy for PSU football.
Good post but do not agree with all of it. I agree, bigger games against bigger competition not only sells out PSU like you said, but causes White Outs! I admire that about PSU fans and I have been to such games and I sometimes must hold my hands to my ears, that is how loud it gets?

The biggest problem for PSU after it joined the Big ten was it could not travel to many Big Ten Games being so far away versus how it did in the East when it often sold out PITT, CUSE, BC, WVU, TEMPLE, & other Stadiums, that made those games at Away games like Home Games?

In addition, OSU and Michigan made sure to limit Ticket Sales to PSU Visitors when playing at their Stadiums and many PSU still showed up buying scalpers, the cheers still favored Buckeyes and Wolverines!


I always viewed Joe Patreno made the mistake of choosing the Big Ten. Sure, it made bigger money but money was not a problem for Penn State. It did cost PSU Fans in not being able to travel as easily had they stayed in East and an Independent or consider the ACC that Paterno did not consider.

Yet, you are correct, it did cost Penn State big time on Wins, playing National Championships, and Joe had to take some short cuts on Compliance Issues to remain competitive in the B1G, and Penn State instead of being a Top Program in the East or ACC is actually behind Michigan, OSU, and Nebraska in wins, and Wisky, Iowa, NW, have won as much if not more Big Ten Conferences Titles.

Quite a come down since joining the Big Ten and like you said, Revenues great, but I still think PSU Fans prefer more Wins, Conference Titles, and National Championships with still making money, rather then just making more money?

I think one of the PSU Lawyers was correct when he said, this Paterno move to the Big Ten, Scandal, Less Wins, and STEP Programs, caused some PSU Fans to dropped Season tickets as they told me was happening.

Whether Franklin can bring it back by playing and winning against lightweights was part of the discussion and at least playing PITT would sell out PSU Stadium and vice aversa!
 
Work with and know a lot of people that are season ticket holders at Penn State. They all seem to hate STEP. That said, they have continued to buy. Pitt would love those problems though.

While I'm at it, all of them I know seem to at least passively support the new faction of the BOT and generally blame the "old" BOT for all of PSU's problem. Mostly for not fighting.

They are unified on Franklin. Don't see him staying long and are worried he's all talk.
 
Saboteur, said That makes sense...but it is short sighted. The same type of short sightedness that Steve pederson brought to Pitt.:)Agree!

One can only hope that (in the case of PSU) that this type of thinking does not prevail, IF PSU wants to be taken seriously in the Big Ten. face some serious facts, PSU is clearly behind MSU, is getting beat regularly by an OSU that is light years ahead and now faces a rejuvinated Michigan. all teams within the division.
The wins have been less and smaller Big Ten Programs have put the hurt on PSU since joining the Big Ten at times. Penn State is still a Top Ten Program in Attendance, Resources, and coming back in Revenues, but not winning in the Top Ten as much as some other Programs in the Big Ten since 1993.
1. OSU
5 NU
11 WISKY
17 PSU
18 MICHIGAN

Link:
http://football.stassen.com/cgi-bin...=1993&end=2014&rpct=30&min=5&se=on&by=Win+Pct


2000-2014 15 Years:
3 OSU
13 WISKY
17 NU
24 MICHIGAN
30 PSU
38 MSU

Link:
http://football.stassen.com/cgi-bin...=2000&end=2014&rpct=30&min=5&se=on&by=Win+Pct


2010-14 Last 5 Years:
7 OSU
8 MSU
13 WISKY
19 NU
41 PSU
42 MICHIGAN

Link:
http://football.stassen.com/cgi-bin...=2010&end=2014&rpct=30&min=5&se=on&by=Win+Pct

I think Franklin will improve Penn State Records compared to the Paterno's last 15 years, and we shall see?

OSU faced Wisconsin, Alabama and Oregon in 3 straight games to win the NC. THIS AFTER THEY LOST AT HOME TO VTECH. The theory that playing and losing an OC games to a mediocre P5 team is a death wish was disproven in YEAR 1 of a playoff system. Adding more teams to playoff further erodes that discredited theory.
I disagree with good reasoning. One year of the CFB Playoff is not a trend and may have been more of an aberration.

If Baylor and TCU had played a Champs game, OSU would not have qualified over one of them, due to losing to VT and not playing tougher competition. The future of CFB Playoffs will be by a Committee just like the NCAA Tourney! Schedules will a matter until more Teams are included, these are actually the mission of the New CFB Playoff Bowl Committee?


In addition, should the CFB Playoff expand to 6 and 8 Teams. Still giving all Power Conference a seat in the CFB Playoffs, even using that analysis would show based on PSU Past difficulties in winning more in the Big Ten still could be a struggle to qualify. OSU, NU, MICHIGAN, and WISKY are tough Programs to overcome and add MSU too now!:confused:

Franklin is recruiting the players and has the Staff to do it I believe but we shall see, just like at PITT have to wait on watching Coach Pat & Staff win more at PITT, and Holgrosen is still struggling in the Big-12 too?o_O
 
Lionlurker said...There are good points being made here on both sides of the argument. To sum up the STEP stuff, they really did botch the roll-out due to arrogance, and then it turned out the timing was awful. They have treated long time fans horribly. BUT, they are now collecting more money than they did under the old system, even though a lot of people ditched their season tickets, because of the amount of money it now costs to keep your tickets. So while STEP was a terrible move from a PR standpoint, from a financial standpoint it has been a big success, no matter how much most of us hate it. The financial people are very happy with the results thus far.

Why I posted the info to gage facts and opinions you mention as well as others challenge the info. However, I must disagree based on what the PSU lawyer told us. He said, PSU is very concern about about this aspect of losing season Ticket Sales and not sure Attendance will return to numbers it was before, and winning against lightweights at Beaver is no longer selling out and that was happening under Paterno?

Moreover, Franklin is doing great at recruiting but beating Meyers, Harbaugh, and Dantonio every year is not an easy task even with great talent since they have great talent too?

As far as Franklin goes, we'll have to wait and see how he does now that he is accumulating more talent. I would venture to say that this year he will still be saddled with a weak OL, so I cannot see how he gets more than 8 wins. But moving forward, he will surely have a lot of talent to work with.
It can only go up if recruiting keeps being in the Top 25, Top 15 and Top 10, in my opinion! Yet, so is OSu, Michigan, and MSU now? Not to mention NU & Wisky having great years in winning too!

At this point, I like Franklin's chances at success more than Narduzzi's, if I were a betting man. At the end of the day, it's about the talent on the roster.
I cannot disagree, PSU is out recruiting Pitt and with great Talent! Coach Pat & Staff task is still building a Program copied from Wisky & MSU and that takes years not just few months.

Good post thank you!
 
I despise STEP, and I would be more than happy if it caused a significant decrease in money collected, but I have it on pretty good authority that it has been a resounding success, even with less butts in the seats. I would love to have seen it failed, and I would be pleased to be wrong.

I don't see Franklin leaving anytime soon, although I do think Shoop may well move on in the not too distant future. We are going to have a tremendous defense this year, and he will get all of the credit. I'm sure he will wait for the proper opportunity, but he is going to be a commodity, most likely. The hiring of Haslett might be a hedge in case that happens.

Can Franklin coach? We'll soon find out. Word last year was the best players didn't always play. Franklin could not bring himself to play freshmen over guys who had stuck with PSU thru the sanction period, and some of the guys that redshirted were said ("said") to be better than the guys who played. Particularly at running back. We will see.
 
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I was invited to a very nice Home that looked over Pittsburgh on Mount Washington yesterday. There were a number of Lawyers and Judges from Western Pennsylvania and what a delightful place to see the Fireworks after the Pirate Game.

There I talked to three Lawyers one that represented a Penn State Branch Campus and knows the Paterno's closely and another that is a Big WVU Booster and a Lawyer close to PITT had interesting insights on PSU, WVU and PITT!

Penn State:
Apparently he knows the Paternos' and Jay Paterno in particular. He stated Jay is a very very nice person and does not have to worry about anything as far as money. He revealed that the Paterno's are far richer than most know. He estimated around $42 Million in Net Worth! Apparently, they owned a great deal in Tasty Cakes before it went south and made a hefty profit, Nike Shoe Contracts, plus other business interests the Paternos were in with some other people, and of course the buyouts and retirements. They can well afford the cost of the Lawsuits they waging against Penn State and NCAA. So Sue, will be leaving quite a sum to all children and relations. He also said, Jay was offered the Juniata College Coaching job but was not interested and does not think his Lawsuit will go anywhere on not being given offers to Coach in FBS. He added, Paterno's other son is a total idiot and left it at that, without another word.

Additionally, he mentioned Penn State "Season Tickets" has taken a big dip not just over the Sanctions but due to the Step Program and they are only at 60% of what it once was prior to that Program. They are hurting on that aspect. I countered the Attendance has gone from 96,000 to 101,000 but he came back saying they are still way down on Season Tickets Sales and one reason why they will have to Schedule tougher games to bringing the Fans. I hope a PSU Poster with some knowledge on the Penn State Step Season Ticket Sales confirms, augments, or provide more details, on this subject! The good point is they need Pitt to sell more Season Tickets!

He said, Franklin demanding to play a lighter OOC claiming the Big Ten Schedule was so tough is laughable. they feels they will add Pitt to the Schedule for that reason alone to Power Conference as an OOC Team. He confirmed what a few informed Posters have posted here, that Franklin insists on light weight schedules to build up his win total, and that will grow old at Penn State, but Paterno did that too, in his early career? He added, Franklin recruiting is out of sight but he may not equal the quality of players like Coach Pat is noted to produce in the NFL and that remain to be seen. One guy said, even with Franklin's recruiting in the clouds so is Ohio State, Michigan, and MSU too, and they are all better coaches than Franklin on Game Day. They look for Franklin's DC Shoop to leave soon too. They all said there are there is many problems under the covers at Penn State and WVU that is being dealt with quietly, and PITT is in a way better position to take advantage of rebuilding its Athletics that they need to do too!

PITT:
He said, he loves Coach Pat Narduzzi and feels as many that knowing Defenses. He will get great recruits out of Ohio but has a challenge against Franklin. He also feels Coach Pat & Staff will come to challenge Franklin and is a better coach but Penn State recruits are just of higher caliber. Yet, Coach Pat is known how to make his recruits and players just better p[layers into winning Teams. The Recruits and Players just love and adore and can't wait to practice to learn to play for him. So long as Coach Pat is able to hire a great OC like Harris, Chryst, and like Chaney PITT should be very good. He agreed that Chryst will get a boost from Alvarez at Wisky but on his own is another Foge, a better Coordinator than a Complete Head Coach and won't last at Wisky. One guy talked about knowing Bo Ryan too and said, he will be missed at Wisky. The Lawyers and Judges all talked about how glad everyone is over Gallagher being hired, and Pederson being fired. Not one good word was said about Pederson and I was silent just listening about him. Barnes is so lucky because it is hard not to succeed Pederson. They said, Gallagher's background on Commerce Department Innovations is going to payoff big time for PITT way better than the Old Guard Hires Retreads of PSU & WVU! In any event, teh PITT Players cannot wait to play for Coach Pat & Staff and all are happy he is at Pitt!

WVU
There was a discussion on WVU that took a heated tone and I just laid back and watch. The PITT & PSU guys said, WVU is a corrupt Program that does not care about the Players going to classes and Holgrosen is overrated and overhead with a bad Staff. They talked about that is why Oliver Luck wanted out and brought in Bradley to clean up the Program, but he was out as soon as Luck left! Of course the WVU Booster said they did not know what they were talking about, but all agreed, Oliver Luck is at the NCAA to save it from the Power Conferences from making a For Profit League or help with that transition, but they were all vague on what will happen as most of us. They added, once Texas comebacks under Charlie Strong, Holgrosen won't be there that long against Briles, Patterson, Synder, Stoops, and Strong. They confirmed that the Big-12 is very vulnerable to being erased as Conference. They also said, the ACC will always be behind the SEC and B1G. They agreed that WVU, PSU, PITT, and CUSE should be playing each other all the time, and to avoid each other is just stupid! They feel once Coach Pat establishes his imprint on Pitt Program, it will be WVU having trouble recruiting against PSU & PITT in PA, OH, and region!


This is just what I heard from many sources and I cannot confirm the details and not gospel but just some gossip from others that work around all three schools and programs. Just sharing it with the Board.

Jay is definitely a nice person, but not the sharpest tool in the shed, and most assuredly gets by on his family name. PSU fans mostly hate him, in great part because of his politics. The family absolutely has more money than people think.

I have noted the season ticket sales for several years now. They reached a breaking point on pouring it on the fans just before the Sandusky scandal broke. That just doubled down on it, but they were going to dip regardless.

The fan base is very much wait and see on Franklin. He isn't a great fit culturally for a fairly conservative fan base. You just see a difference in how the fans were with O'Brien and him. They really liked O'Brien, he was their kind of of guy. Not the same thing. He is going to have to win something, at the very least a Big 10 division title, in the next few years or they will turn on him.
 
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Saboteur, post: 192420, member: 5688"]Captain.....I defer to the expression "the bigger they are, the harder they fall." all these schools are slaves to football and have built huge athletic programs on the backs of the football program. If football fails, the dominoes will fall.

I cannot disagree with you nor try, the rise of money for all Power Conferences has brought on New Programs once known as Bottom Feeders with little Traditions of winning big in CFB History.

I think Chancellor Gallagher has seen this too and made his own moves for PITT within months not years.


So long as they have great President/Chancellor Vision & Support, Great Athletic Director implementation and judgement on choosing Coaches and Branding, as well that Coach knowing how to develop recruits into Winning Teams???

The rise of Baylor, TCU, KSU, UCLA, Minnesota, NW, Wisky, MSU, Ole Miss, Missy State, Oregons, Stanford, OKSU, Clemson, GT, WVU, Duke, and others are proving it and they are growing in winning over multiple years not just a few.


At the same time, the demise of some Top 25 Revenue Programs that have not done as well as as expected even with great Revenues, Attendance, and Resources on Money Staffs, Recruiting Camps, and Boosters have dropped the last 15, 10 and 5 years, and struggle against the these programs that a have been doing pretty good!

Still, although things and leveling of FBS Programs with most Schools earning bigger dollars, the Top 25 Programs still in Revenues and Winning have an easier time rebuilding when they do fall.

USC, PSU, BAMA, and OSU all survived NCAA Sanctions and still won games under sanctions. Also, Michigan, Auburn, UTenn, Nebraska, OU, UTexas, and their Fans and Boosters will not stand for losing under 10 games very often, and make changes to overcome it when it happens!

They will always be able to count on rebuilding easier and will make changes to get those results and have the advantages to do just that too!

Yet, it is still coming down to new challenges and changes that coming upon CFB has we know it, and why I post such info to gain back feedback from others that can contribute and share more info not less.

As I use the quote...."Don't Know Where We Are Going But No Excuse To Be To Late!"
 
kjb32812 said....Right now, it is OSU and then everyone else.
I agree! Meyers is hard to beat anywhere and has proven it in MAC, MTN West, SEC and now B1G? But, Big ten has 5 to 6 Programs that can take him on!

I don't hold D'Antonio out to be the genius that everyone else does. Not saying I am right, but that's my opinion. Right now MSU is definitely better than PSU but I believe that gap can be closed very quickly. Michigan is on par with us right now.
MSU & WISKY have built System Programs. Wisky's Alvarez did it 1990s and they have been winning more just behind OSU and NU in Big Ten since 2000. Dantonio has been doing it the last 5 years and it did it elsewhere too! He still wants the OSU job too, I am told!

Harbaugh is a great hire but he's also a loon. I think Penn State could keep pace with UM. OSU is a whole different story.
PSU has been on pace with Michigan the last 5 and 10 years. But they both have been behind OSU, Wisky, and NU those years too, and lately MSU!

Not disagreeing with all you said, just augmenting it!
 
Not sure how the B1G would be considered weak but that's fine. Wisky, Iowa and Nebraska don't really matter to PSU since they are on the other side.

I'm not ready to hang Franklin out to dry just yet. We'll see how the offense improves this year and take it from there.
One other thing that came up is that most of us agreed, that SEC & B1G have more Big Programs than ACC, Big-12 and Pac-12, and to be fair that is my opinion too!

But just having a Big Program no longer means they can always win the Top 10 and 25 either anymore! yes, easier to rebuild, but no longer always a sure way back to Top 15 & 10 Winning anymore?
 
I agree that harbaugh is a loon....but an effective one thus far. His shelf life is highly questionable.D'Antonio is no genius. But he has achieved much and (and this is important) has done so without cheating.
I don't get the Big ten hate...OSU won the NC and smoked tough teams along the way. there is serious imbalance between the two divisions and history suggested that there would be imbalance.
;):):cool::p
 
Not sure how the B1G would be considered weak but that's fine. Wisky, Iowa and Nebraska don't really matter to PSU since they are on the other side.

I'm not ready to hang Franklin out to dry just yet. We'll see how the offense improves this year and take it from there.
Here is how i see it. If Franklin would be recruiting for Pitt like he has at Penn State the last 3 years, any Pitt Fan would be delighted. Franklin deserves has much as 3 to 5 Years to show he can develop those recruits into great players into great Teams.

Dantonio has proved that at MSU, Harbaugh at Stanford & 49ers and Meyers everywhere he went? Franklin proved it at Vandy as far as I am concern and UMD did want him as Head Coach in waiting!

Pitt fans has had to watch and wait on Wannstedt, Graham, and Chryst and all less than 6 years, Franklin has a taller task in B1G than Pitt had in the BEC!

Now Pitt is waiting to see Coach Pat & Staff in the ACC, and I can wait and watch him and Franklin and Holgrosen.


Yet, I welcome Posters on lair that have different views and predictions and explain why, and I can wait to see if they are more right and have been often than me too!

 
well, Michigan certainly got the much better coach than UPS (well, outside of being on Colin Cowher hah), and OSU, Wisky, Iowa and Nebraska are all solid.
I would guess UPS would be around 5-6 in that relatively weak league.
I think Harbaugh and the entire Harbaugh family of coaches including his Father are some of the best coaches in Football, Pro and College. His Dad coached at Pitt for a while.

This beings aid, I think Franklin has one of the most dynamic personalities as anyone I ever met, and I think he could be anything he wants to be, and his spirit, excitement, and the way he talks to anyone is formidable and why he is doing great in recruiting.

Whether he can turn that into Top Ten Coaching, i think he can, but we all have to see, as well as Coach Holgrosen at WVU and Coach Pat at Pitt?


Baby2 and me have a bet, is and Harbaugh will win 10 games this year, and I think I made a mistake on that one and baby2 will be proven more right!

In any case, right now Dantonio, Meyers, and Harbaugh are just slightly ahead of Franklin but not that much to make a big difference, in my opinion.

Coach Pat & Staff better be just as good at coaching as Alvarez, Dantonio, Briles and Patterson because he has to turn his Recruits into great players and Teams!
 
Why do people believe Franklin will only be at PSU for a short time? Those that throw around the NFL - I don't get it. He coached one year in the NFL and came right back to college. That doesn't sound like a guy with plans on going to the NFL the way O'Brien did when he first stepped in. Those close to him knew that if a good opportunity presented itself in the NFL, he was going to take it.

But college is ideal for Franklin because his biggest strength is recruiting. And going to another program doesn't make sense. His recruiting connections are in the Northeast, and he also has the benefit of having some connections down south so he will be able to get a few kids down south to supplement the Northeast recruits. He has just as many resources at PSU as any school in the country, and if he went back south to the SEC, the recruiting competition is going to be more difficult than PSU where he can do very well in PA, NJ, MD, VA, and New England without nearly as much recruiting competition.
 
CampbellLION, post: 193593, member: 6354"]Why do people believe Franklin will only be at PSU for a short time?
I can tell why I hope he will be gone sooner not later.....he is kicking butts at Cuse, Pitt, Rutgers, Umd, and Wvu! Just being honest. I have talked to others Loyal Pitt Boosters, Doctors, Politicians, Judges, Lawyers and some High School Coaches and they all came away liking him.

Those that throw around the NFL - I don't get it. He coached one year in the NFL and came right back to college. That doesn't sound like a guy with plans on going to the NFL the way O'Brien did when he first stepped in. Those close to him knew that if a good opportunity presented itself in the NFL, he was going to take it.
Well, Holtz, Spurrier, Groh, Mora, and many others did about the same thing. While Carroll left USC to get away from Sanctions but Karma caught up to Carroll with that call in the Super Bowl???

But college is ideal for Franklin because his biggest strength is recruiting. And going to another program doesn't make sense. His recruiting connections are in the Northeast, and he also has the benefit of having some connections down south so he will be able to get a few kids down south to supplement the Northeast recruits. He has just as many resources at PSU as any school in the country, and if he went back south to the SEC, the recruiting competition is going to be more difficult than PSU where he can do very well in PA, NJ, MD, VA, and New England without nearly as much recruiting competition.
Well, Franklin has said and responded to those saying he may go and he said, why should I go?, and he outlined everything you just posted!!!!

We shall see?
 
Yeah, I don't see Franklin ever leaving for the NFL. He's not that type of personality. Could he go back to the SEC if a premier program comes after him? Yeah, that I could see, but not the NFL.

I don't believe a word any of these guys ever says, but so far he is saying all the right things.

And the guy who said that JF doesn't fit in culturally is dead wrong. He's been fully embraced with open arms. That is the least of any issues.
 
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Jeffburgh, post: 193182, member: 204"]Jay is definitely a nice person, but not the sharpest tool in the shed, and most assuredly gets by on his family name. PSU fans mostly hate him, in great part because of his politics. The family absolutely has more money than people think.
Thanks for the confirmation and why I posted and shared it. I was hard on Jay and some of his antics and I wanted others to know, like anyone else, everybody has Divine Light within them, and Jay has passion about his father too!

I have noted the season ticket sales for several years now. They reached a breaking point on pouring it on the fans just before the Sandusky scandal broke. That just doubled down on it, but they were going to dip regardless.
The LION "Pride" before the great "Fall!" Biblical no doubt, arrogance will do that to some, and ignorance will do it more, yet PSU is still in good shape.

The fan base is very much wait and see on Franklin. He isn't a great fit culturally for a fairly conservative fan base. You just see a difference in how the fans were with O'Brien and him.
Now that is a honest post and few have said it like you. Hope you keep posting and sharing such honest views here, it is the only way to learn together!

They really liked O'Brien, he was their kind of of guy. Not the same thing.
O'Brien took the job knowing following Paterno was not going to be easy, then Sanctions hit, then he stayed, and everyone knew he wanted a NFL Head Coaching job, and he left. Jay undercut him as well, but that is history now?

He is going to have to win something, at the very least a Big 10 division title, in the next few years or they will turn on him.
You are correct sir, Franklin is winning recruiting no doubt about it, but his coaching better beat MSU, Michigan, and OSU and so far he went 0-3 last year, but 2 games were close. We shall see, that is his challenge and Franklin's & Penn State fate or fame?
 
Lionlurker, post: 193629, member: 7137"]Yeah, I don't see Franklin ever leaving for the NFL. He's not that type of personality. Could he go back to the SEC if a premier program comes after him? Yeah, that I could see, but not the NFL. I don't believe a word any of these guys ever says, but so far he is saying all the right things.
Pennsylvania guy at Penn State with all the Resources of a Top Ten Program. Tough place to leave once success starts!

And the guy who said that JF doesn't fit in culturally is dead wrong. He's been fully embraced with open arms. That is the least of any issues.
I disagree with respect, more than a few PSU Fans doubt Franklin and that is because they love Paterno so much. Now Franklin's recruiting has everyone excited, but if can't win 10+ Wins in most years with those recruits, that can grow old fast at Happy Valley?

He has been warmly embraced, but I still see a wait and watch attitude by many PSU Fans that I know! Does not make you wrong or me right, but still wait and see attitude prevails.
 
Actually, JF needs to win, but he doesn't need to beat OSU. We are never going to out-recruit them, and Meyer is a hell of a coach as well. If Narduzzi is as good a coach as Pitt folks are hoping, then MSU must take a step back, right? After all, he should not be easily replaceable. Michigan is a crapshoot, with Harbaugh, but we are looking at potentially 3 straight years of out-recruiting them, so that will help.

I think many here are overstating how successful JF needs to be. We are not going to be the only team that is not beating OSU on a consistent basis. Nobody's done that in a long time. If he gets a big bowl payday somewhat consistently and keeps kids graduating and out of trouble, he is going to have a very long leash. Our administration is NEVER going to allow someone to be judged as less successful than Paterno, if they can help it.
 
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"Oliver Luck is at the NCAA to save it from the Power Conferences from making a For Profit League "

I hope they do make it a FOR PROFIT LEAGUE, then Pitt can either go ALL IN or be amatuer with the Ivy types, no half way. One or the other.
 
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kjb32812 said....Right now, it is OSU and then everyone else.
I agree! Meyers is hard to beat anywhere and has proven it in MAC, MTN West, SEC and now B1G? But, Big ten has 5 to 6 Programs that can take him on!

I don't hold D'Antonio out to be the genius that everyone else does. Not saying I am right, but that's my opinion. Right now MSU is definitely better than PSU but I believe that gap can be closed very quickly. Michigan is on par with us right now.
MSU & WISKY have built System Programs. Wisky's Alvarez did it 1990s and they have been winning more just behind OSU and NU in Big Ten since 2000. Dantonio has been doing it the last 5 years and it did it elsewhere too! He still wants the OSU job too, I am told!

Harbaugh is a great hire but he's also a loon. I think Penn State could keep pace with UM. OSU is a whole different story.
PSU has been on pace with Michigan the last 5 and 10 years. But they both have been behind OSU, Wisky, and NU those years too, and lately MSU!

Not disagreeing with all you said, just augmenting it!
When discussing Narduzzi on this board, everyone wants to give him credit for the all the success at MSU the past two years, yet when they discuss PSU/Franklin and the challenges he is going to have in the Big 10 facing OSU, MSU and UM, they act as if there isn't going to be any drop off at MSU with Narduzzi gone.
 
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I was invited to a very nice Home that looked over Pittsburgh on Mount Washington yesterday. There were a number of Lawyers and Judges from Western Pennsylvania and what a delightful place to see the Fireworks after the Pirate Game.

There I talked to three Lawyers one that represented a Penn State Branch Campus and knows the Paterno's closely and another that is a Big WVU Booster and a Lawyer close to PITT had interesting insights on PSU, WVU and PITT!

Penn State:
Apparently he knows the Paternos' and Jay Paterno in particular. He stated Jay is a very very nice person and does not have to worry about anything as far as money. He revealed that the Paterno's are far richer than most know. He estimated around $42 Million in Net Worth! Apparently, they owned a great deal in Tasty Cakes before it went south and made a hefty profit, Nike Shoe Contracts, plus other business interests the Paternos were in with some other people, and of course the buyouts and retirements. They can well afford the cost of the Lawsuits they waging against Penn State and NCAA. So Sue, will be leaving quite a sum to all children and relations. He also said, Jay was offered the Juniata College Coaching job but was not interested and does not think his Lawsuit will go anywhere on not being given offers to Coach in FBS. He added, Paterno's other son is a total idiot and left it at that, without another word.

Additionally, he mentioned Penn State "Season Tickets" has taken a big dip not just over the Sanctions but due to the Step Program and they are only at 60% of what it once was prior to that Program. They are hurting on that aspect. I countered the Attendance has gone from 96,000 to 101,000 but he came back saying they are still way down on Season Tickets Sales and one reason why they will have to Schedule tougher games to bringing the Fans. I hope a PSU Poster with some knowledge on the Penn State Step Season Ticket Sales confirms, augments, or provide more details, on this subject! The good point is they need Pitt to sell more Season Tickets!

He said, Franklin demanding to play a lighter OOC claiming the Big Ten Schedule was so tough is laughable. they feels they will add Pitt to the Schedule for that reason alone to Power Conference as an OOC Team. He confirmed what a few informed Posters have posted here, that Franklin insists on light weight schedules to build up his win total, and that will grow old at Penn State, but Paterno did that too, in his early career? He added, Franklin recruiting is out of sight but he may not equal the quality of players like Coach Pat is noted to produce in the NFL and that remain to be seen. One guy said, even with Franklin's recruiting in the clouds so is Ohio State, Michigan, and MSU too, and they are all better coaches than Franklin on Game Day. They look for Franklin's DC Shoop to leave soon too. They all said there are there is many problems under the covers at Penn State and WVU that is being dealt with quietly, and PITT is in a way better position to take advantage of rebuilding its Athletics that they need to do too!

PITT:
He said, he loves Coach Pat Narduzzi and feels as many that knowing Defenses. He will get great recruits out of Ohio but has a challenge against Franklin. He also feels Coach Pat & Staff will come to challenge Franklin and is a better coach but Penn State recruits are just of higher caliber. Yet, Coach Pat is known how to make his recruits and players just better p[layers into winning Teams. The Recruits and Players just love and adore and can't wait to practice to learn to play for him. So long as Coach Pat is able to hire a great OC like Harris, Chryst, and like Chaney PITT should be very good. He agreed that Chryst will get a boost from Alvarez at Wisky but on his own is another Foge, a better Coordinator than a Complete Head Coach and won't last at Wisky. One guy talked about knowing Bo Ryan too and said, he will be missed at Wisky. The Lawyers and Judges all talked about how glad everyone is over Gallagher being hired, and Pederson being fired. Not one good word was said about Pederson and I was silent just listening about him. Barnes is so lucky because it is hard not to succeed Pederson. They said, Gallagher's background on Commerce Department Innovations is going to payoff big time for PITT way better than the Old Guard Hires Retreads of PSU & WVU! In any event, teh PITT Players cannot wait to play for Coach Pat & Staff and all are happy he is at Pitt!

WVU
There was a discussion on WVU that took a heated tone and I just laid back and watch. The PITT & PSU guys said, WVU is a corrupt Program that does not care about the Players going to classes and Holgrosen is overrated and overhead with a bad Staff. They talked about that is why Oliver Luck wanted out and brought in Bradley to clean up the Program, but he was out as soon as Luck left! Of course the WVU Booster said they did not know what they were talking about, but all agreed, Oliver Luck is at the NCAA to save it from the Power Conferences from making a For Profit League or help with that transition, but they were all vague on what will happen as most of us. They added, once Texas comebacks under Charlie Strong, Holgrosen won't be there that long against Briles, Patterson, Synder, Stoops, and Strong. They confirmed that the Big-12 is very vulnerable to being erased as Conference. They also said, the ACC will always be behind the SEC and B1G. They agreed that WVU, PSU, PITT, and CUSE should be playing each other all the time, and to avoid each other is just stupid! They feel once Coach Pat establishes his imprint on Pitt Program, it will be WVU having trouble recruiting against PSU & PITT in PA, OH, and region!


This is just what I heard from many sources and I cannot confirm the details and not gospel but just some gossip from others that work around all three schools and programs. Just sharing it with the Board.
 
No!

Pitt did beat VT, Miami, NC last season……all of which would have beaten ups.

yeah okay :rolleyes::D you have no idea who beats who unless they play.....but I know one thing about the future.....look at the recruiting, pitt is headed sharply in one direction and psu is headed sharply in the other ........talent is talent in d1 football .....there are no magic "coach em up " plays that no one else knows about...penn state is well on its way back to where it once was.......is pitt?.
 
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I agree that harbaugh is a loon....but an effective one thus far. His shelf life is highly questionable.D'Antonio is no genius. But he has achieved much and (and this is important) has done so without cheating.
I don't get the Big ten hate...OSU won the NC and smoked tough teams along the way. there is serious imbalance between the two divisions and history suggested that there would be imbalance.

So D'antonio isn't cheating.....ok great......that must mean that you think someone else is. So who is then and how are they cheating and what proof do you have?
 
Yeah, I don't see Franklin ever leaving for the NFL. He's not that type of personality. Could he go back to the SEC if a premier program comes after him? Yeah, that I could see, but not the NFL.

I don't believe a word any of these guys ever says, but so far he is saying all the right things.

And the guy who said that JF doesn't fit in culturally is dead wrong. He's been fully embraced with open arms. That is the least of any issues.

I see Franklin having a Stoops/Richt type career in terms of longevity. He's not close to a fit in the NFL (he evens knows that). If he continues to recruit year in and year out in the top 10 to 15 he may never leave. Shoop is the best coach in the program. He'll have an ACC HC position within 5 years.
 
I see Franklin having a Stoops/Richt type career in terms of longevity. He's not close to a fit in the NFL (he evens knows that). If he continues to recruit year in and year out in the top 10 to 15 he may never leave. Shoop is the best coach in the program. He'll have an ACC HC position within 5 years.
Shoop failed pretty badly as a head coach once before. I don't know if hes going to get a second chance, and if LSU couldn't lure him away, I don't know if any school can.
 
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Actually, JF needs to win, but he doesn't need to beat OSU. We are never going to out-recruit them, and Meyer is a hell of a coach as well. If Narduzzi is as good a coach as Pitt folks are hoping, then MSU must take a step back, right? After all, he should not be easily replaceable. Michigan is a crapshoot, with Harbaugh, but we are looking at potentially 3 straight years of out-recruiting them, so that will help.

I think many here are overstating how successful JF needs to be. We are not going to be the only team that is not beating OSU on a consistent basis. Nobody's done that in a long time. If he gets a big bowl payday somewhat consistently and keeps kids graduating and out of trouble, he is going to have a very long leash. Our administration is NEVER going to allow someone to be judged as less successful than Paterno, if they can help it.
Few to none will be beating Meyer's for a while! It will be interesting how Harbaugh handles it, juts as much as Franklin? MSU, NU, and Wisky all have that challenge too!
 
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