Typical First Round Performance By Pitt At NCAA Wrestling Championship

[mike412]

And, by typical I mean bad.

Forys got pinned by Dance from VT.

Mikey, seeded #16, faded late and lost to unseeded Nelson of Purdue.

Reaghard got mauled and lost a major decision.

Wilps had to come from behind late to beat an unseeded wrestler from Oklahoma.

Max won impressively, winning a major decision.

Solomon lost 8-3 to the #13 seed from Binghampton.

2-4. Just the type of performances we got in Rande's last 12 years as coach. Everything I feared when Peters was anointed his successor without a coaching search. Wrestlers running out of gas late in matches, late in the season and in tourneys because of subpar conditioning. The successful wrestlers like Gavin have worked out on their own to supplement the mediocre strength and conditioning program. The highly touted frosh don't develop because they aren't properly coached while freshmen and sophs from other schools are dominating wrestlers.

We lose the only two guys we could count on for wins. We have no one close to their quality to replace them. Next year we are going to be bad. We will beat the Clarions but get slaughtered by the top teams we face. That should never happen with the high school talent in the natural recruiting area. And it won't happen if the new AD cares. And next year should be Peters' last. Pitt wrestling fans have suffered long enough. We need -- and deserve -- hope.

 

[Somerset Panther]

max and Tyler both move on to quarters relatively easy...


NM

 

[goalieman]

Re: max and Tyler both move on to quarters relatively easy...

- Wilps has to wrestle the #1 seed in the quarterfinals, Kokesh from Nebraska who is 38-0..... very tough match.

- Thomusseit has to wrestle a #7 seed from Lehigh in the quarterfinals ..... if he wins the quarterfinal match, he has a great chance to make the finals as in the semifinals, he would have to wrestle the winner of the match between #14 seed McCutcheon from PSU and an unseeded wrestler from Ohio State.

 

[Nish67]

Re: max and Tyler both move on to quarters relatively easy...

What happened in the consolation rounds? I know Solomon won. What about the rest?j

 

[goalieman]

Re: max and Tyler both move on to quarters relatively easy...

Originally posted by Nish67:
What happened in the consolation rounds? I know Solomon won. What about the rest?j

Forys lost in the 1st consolation match and is out ....... Racciato, Reaghard, and Solomon all won their 1st consolation matches and are still alive.

 

[mehinpgh]

this is a pretty morose view of yesterday. i saw our two seniors kick ass in the 2nd round to get into the quarters. i saw gutty performances of all the guys in wrestlebacks and three of them get to wrestle on Friday. I see Solomon being a possible all american at 197 in 15-16 and Bright is going to come on strong most likely at 157 to be an AA candidate too. i think the Penn Hills kid that we just got will come in and shock a lot of people in the fall and go to nationals at 174. i think our future would be brighter with a few more nationally ranked kids from the wpial, but i don't think the sky is falling either.

Originally posted by mike412:
And, by typical I mean bad.

Forys got pinned by Dance from VT.

Mikey, seeded #16, faded late and lost to unseeded Nelson of Purdue.

Reaghard got mauled and lost a major decision.

Wilps had to come from behind late to beat an unseeded wrestler from Oklahoma.

Max won impressively, winning a major decision.

Solomon lost 8-3 to the #13 seed from Binghampton.

2-4. Just the type of performances we got in Rande's last 12 years as coach. Everything I feared when Peters was anointed his successor without a coaching search. Wrestlers running out of gas late in matches, late in the season and in tourneys because of subpar conditioning. The successful wrestlers like Gavin have worked out on their own to supplement the mediocre strength and conditioning program. The highly touted frosh don't develop because they aren't properly coached while freshmen and sophs from other schools are dominating wrestlers.

We lose the only two guys we could count on for wins. We have no one close to their quality to replace them. Next year we are going to be bad. We will beat the Clarions but get slaughtered by the top teams we face. That should never happen with the high school talent in the natural recruiting area. And it won't happen if the new AD cares. And next year should be Peters' last. Pitt wrestling fans have suffered long enough. We need -- and deserve -- hope.

 

[pletch5]

Mike can I be honest here your an idiot. We have two guys in the alive in the winners side We are ranked If football was ranked every year we would happy. Give the guy a chance. Go to any other schools chat sites and it is full of supporters Mike what do you know about the sport and what are you doing to help PItt. Other then turn people off on coming here

 

[rc79]

Re: max and Tyler both move on to quarters relatively easy...

I've been watching the Quarters since this morning on and off. I think Wilps made it through to the semis. Tonight on ESPN.

Some 10 seed from Duke just beat McIntosh from PSU. I'm surprised the ACC is better than I thought. To Mike's point, Pitt needs to step it up across the board.

As an aside, why do Pitt people need to take oblique shots at the football program to make a point? It's really unattractive.

I'm sick of basketball already. I'm watching the last few minutes only.

 

[pletch5]

Re: max and Tyler both move on to quarters relatively easy...

I didn't take a shot I said football fans would be happy being ranked no shot at all

 

[bwh05]

Re: max and Tyler both move on to quarters relatively easy...

So happy for Wilps, such a huge win. I really hope Max can regroup tonight and get it done vs Zilmer.

 

[singregardless]

Re: max and Tyler both move on to quarters relatively easy...

That kid from Duke, Hartmann, is actually good. Personally, I hold him responsible for breaking Bonaccorsi.

 

[singregardless]

As for everything else, I think it's fair to say Racciato & Thomusseit underperformed. Max is still alive, but every break he needed to make the finals was there. Miklus lost. He got Brown, a guy he was 2-0 against this year, and gave up ~1.5 consecutive periods of ride time. If he did what he should - he would have got Courts of Ohio State who he's also undefeated against lifetime. Boom, finals. The talent & preparation just never overcame the nerves - it's very tough to take, I agree. But I recommend savoring the last few matches of his journey towards All-American status, because it'll be awhile until we have a 184 pounder as good.

Racciato has the physique, dynamic style, and athleticism to make noise in the tournament setting. These traits, plus a bit of heart-over-head, led some people to tab him as a darkhorse All-American pick. However, his (lack of) defense, his inability to ride even moderately (by far, my biggest frustration with him), and his inconsistency will prohibit from results much different from what we saw this week. He improved from his 0-fer last year and he deserves credit for that. I still think much better days are ahead for him - the quotes in this article are a big reason for that - it's not unreasonable for a Sophomore to still need another step in their development. I think that's in him. He's not at his ceiling, as is true of most true sophomores.

I agree we should be better. Within the ACC - we should be better (Tech laid that tournament up for us). Within the state we should be better (Lehigh and Edinboro finishing ahead of us - again - in a region like this is suspect). However, a lot of what is holding the program back seems to be endemic. That they got Forys, Solomon, and Reaghard (as miraculous as P.J.'s first NCAA berth, in my book) to St. Louis is a huge + in my book. Reaghard & Solomon even got wins - not sold that this would have happened in previous years.

During this academic year, they got:

* Commitments from 3 state champions recruits in Siepel, Campbell, and Wentzel (with the potential for more down the line)
* 3 conference champions.
* The AD to grant them usage of the PEC in both the dual season & tournament season - an interesting wrinkle for down the road.
* Max to reach a consensus #1 national ranking.
* Tyler selected for NWCA - he didn't wrestle because the injury, but it doesn't hurt for recruiting
* a top 10 win at Edinboro.
* An outside chance of 2 All-Americans

It could be better. It could also be a hell of a lot worse considering the injuries to key pieces (Wilps & Bright front half, Max in the back half), Rizzo/Zanetta/Wiercioch's immense first year struggles, transfers (a bunch outgoing and limited returns to date on the incoming side). I've been thinking a lot about what this team would have looked like with a productive Nyama & Shaffer - two former state champs who some here seem to think we need more of. Those two really hurt them as they would have been upperclassman who should be making their mark on stages like this. Not all state champions are locks. As Pitt fans, we should have a unique understanding of this.

The staff has proven time and time again that they can develop unheralded recruits. I can't even entertain the idea of writing them off until I see what the do with the Wiercioch/Bright/Racciato/Solomon/Zanetta(/Rizzo) class. The fascinating thing is it could go so many different ways. I'm hopeful, but that might just be the high from Tyler's massive win.

 

[vabeachpanther]

Very nice post Sing. You have a great grasp on Pitt wrestling. We have a bright future. If Ty wins tonight it will be a helluva celebration.

 

[vabeachpanther]

Pletch, that is the post of the year on this board.

 

[pletch5]

Wilps finalist First since Gavin. Typical. Panther fighting hard into the finals. Luv it go pitt

 

[mike412]

The NCAA Tournament is a TEAM tournament in which individuals also can win titles. Ask Iowa fans if they would rather win the team title or one or two individual titles. I guarantee you they will be unhappy of Ohio State wins the team title.

Tyler has made the finals with a much-deserved victory over an Oklahoma State wrestler who didn't take a shot the entire match. His strategy I assume was to hope Tyler got too deep when he shot. But Tyler was patient and won in OT. He has had an excellent tourney. But the team hasn't and more importantly hasn't showed anything to make a fan optimistic about the future. Max and Tyler, our two best wrestlers both graduate. We have no decent replacements for them next year.

Every year right after LOI day, each Pitt team sends out a press release announcing the recruits who signed LOIs and the coach then gives a glowing assessment of each. There is, however, none for the 2015 wrestling recruits, and EJ admitted to me that it is because recruiting for 2015 is still continuing for 2015. I don't know who the recruits are who are mentioned above. I assume they are 2016 recruits who won't help in 2015. But the fact that they are state champions means nothing if they aren't properly coached. Wiercoch was at least a two time PIAA champion. Mikey and Solomon were both PIAA champions. Rizzo was a two-time PIAA champion. Among them, they totaled 3 1/2 points in the NCAAs. And 2 1/2 of those came when Solomon got a forfeit victory over a wrestler who got hurt winning his prior match. Oh but they are only redshirt freshmen or sophomores will be the excuse. Ohio State put three freshmen in the semis. WVU has a 125 pound freshman in the finals where he will wrestle an Ohio State freshman. Two of the returning champions won last year as freshmen. Freshmen can and do make a major immediate impact in college wrestling. Our former multiple state champions have made no impact in two years of coaching by Peters.

Mikey now is 1-4 in his career in the NCAAs. He lost in the wrestle-backs to a wrestler from Rider in what unfortunately has become all too common for him. He was tied 2-2 after two periods and lost 16-3. I think it was the first time I have ever seen a wrestler give up 14 points in one period.

Facilities? Have you seen Edinboro's? They are in third place. They could be doing even better were it not for an injury to Schopp at 133.

Using the Pete? Why? The field house is a good venue for wrestling considering the crowds we draw. You really want to put 2,000 fans in the Pete?

But the biggest problem is coaching. SP hired Peters. That should cause concern in and of itself. He didn't conduct a search. He just anointed the head assistant to a coach who should have been fired a decade earlier. His first recruiting class was nationally ranked but as stated above has not done much if anything which would demonstrate that he can coach. His second class was pretty much non-existent except for Forys, Noah Wilps (who had a poor season wrestling unattached in open tourneys and got pinned early in his only varsity bout.)

Meanwhile, when WVU decided it needed to upgrade its program to compete in the Big 8, it's AD did conduct a national search. After we blew them out for three consecutive seasons, they beat us handily in his first year. And they have one of his first recruits, a freshman, in the NCAA finals.

I truly hope I am wrong and you are right about the future. But when the WPIAL has 6 seniors ranked in the top 5 in their weight classes nationally, including 3 ranked #1, and when they are going to UVA, PSU, Iowa, NC State and Arizona State (2) and none are going to Pitt, that says a lot about what those wrestlers think of Peters. His first class, after all, had no ability to judge him as a head coach. These senior do. That alone makes me pessimistic about the future.

As for those who say well we are in the top 20 and that is better than FB and BB, you obviously aren't wrestling fans. Go back and read the 50 posts by thom67, Dallas Burgher, me and the other long time wrestling fans on this board and learn why that means absolutely nothing.

 

[thom67]

I agree with Mike about one thing for sure. There are only 40 D 1 teams that brought wrestlers to the NCAA's this year. 8 of these teams had 2 or less wrestlers. That means that there are only about 30 D1 teams that take wrestling even a little bit seriously. Being ranked # 15 or 20 means you are a below average D 1 team. If you are not a top 10 team, you are not a good wrestling program you cannot compare wrestling rankings with football or basketball. There are very few programs that have good programs. There is no good reason that Pitt is not ranked in top 10 every year and at least making top 5 every few years.

 

[pletch5]

This year 2 recruits that are state champs the Pete is a first step in improving. Mike do you think kids/recruits read boards? If so would they rather see fans all out support. Or your constant bitching And if you don't you are sooo wrong

 

[singregardless]

* I have seen Edinboro's facility at the last EWL's Pitt was in. I also saw that they couldn't even beat us
without Wilps & Bright this year. I also see how many times Pitt has dismantled them this decade. I also see that they've managed to make the 3rd place standing with the individual approach you open up deploring. I also see that there is no trophy for this 3rd place finish you are so breathless about. Habat's finals appearance more than makes up for anything they lost with Schopp.

* The Pete usage means they are actually considering input from the wrestling program. Perhaps you want to take stance that that was a given in previous years? Or maybe you want to take the stance that kids don't love running
out the tunnel with their their name & face up in lights with people making a big fuss over them? No one suggested anything about the Pete being anything other than an alternate home but you.

* 'I don't know who the recruits are who are mentioned above. I assume they are 2016 recruits who won't help in 2015.' Two of the three are actually for 2015 - you know, the potential pieces that E.J. was talking about - and could, conceivably, help then.

That substitution of assumption for searching and the other inaccuracies regarding the accomplishments of guys already in the program makes it nearly impossible to have a reasonable discussion.

---

You won't point out what they've done with Wilps - because it runs counter to your argument on multiple levels. Just like you won't discuss any of the several other guys the last several years who've attained high heights for Pitt at the collegiate level without becoming state champions. Just like you won't discuss how many state champions they've brought in and what those results actually look like. Just like there were no posts by you about Moisey when he finished behind Dom at Super 32 their senior year or any time before or after that. There's no nuance - just bitterness, lazy assumptions, and overreactions to outliers (Moisey) or top 10 freshman recruits from outside of the exact WPIAL (Martinez, Snyder, Moisey) you're fixated on. These things make for poor reading and the frustrations you see from other posters regarding your posts.

As I said last post, you're right - they should be better within the conference and the commonwealth. I also recognize how scholarships work and how they can't bring in the amount of guys you wish for. I also recognize they have a record of improving guys and that growth for the first & second years guys, given that track record, is hardly unrealistic. I also recognize they have a NCAA finalist going for a title as a 3.9 Finance/Chemistry student in year 2. How many coaches from programs as low as you deem Peters to have Pitt at have done that? I'll wait.




This post was edited on 3/21 7:53 PM by singregardless

 

[mike412]

Singregardless, I am going to take you at your word that Wentzel and Campbell have committed to Pitt because there is no official announcement of any wrestling commits. But Intermat lists Seipel as a Pitt commit and they are seldom wrong.

Nationally, Seipel is ranked 14th at 126. Let me ask you this: is that where we need immediate help? If he wrestles at 133 that means he replaces Zanetta. Is the staff admitting they made a mistake with him? And, Seipel is not ranked in Intermat's Top 100 overall by the way.


Who is nationally ranked by Intermat? UVA has 4 commits in the Top 100:Sam Krivius from Hempfield who is ranked #26 nationally, Fox Baldwin who is ranked #8 nationally, the top ranked 113 pounder in the nation who is ranked #81 overall, and a Maryland wrestler ranked #40. Would you rather have our class or their class? In addition, UVA already has a verbal from the #8 sophomore in the country Cameron Coy, a state champion from Penn-Trafford.

NC State has a commitment from the #23 junior in the nation, a state champion and another PA kid. Edinboro just got a commitment from Dylan Reynolds, a PIAA champion who was undefeated this year, won the Ironman and PowerAde this year and is the third top 100 senior to sign with Edinboro. UNC has two top 100 wrestlers signed, including AC Headlee from Waynesburg. Don't we have an assistant coach from Waynesburg named Headlee? By the way, Reynolds is projected as a 184 pounder in college. That is one of the weight classes in which we need the most help. WVU has 4 top 100 prospects signed. Notre Dame, which recently added wrestling, has two. ASU might have the best class in the country.

If Wentzel is the kid from South Park, he has been good since his sophomore year but seems to have peaked as a HS junior. Campbell came out of nowhere to win a title this year but has done nada in national competitions.

I also find it interesting that you criticize me for suggesting we should recruit state champions but you justify Peters' recruiting because he has three state champions in his class. State championships aren't everything. Model never won one at Bethlehem Catholic but had an amazing frosh season for WVU.

Lest snyone think Intermat's rankings are meaningless, they ranked every freshman who won an NCAA title this year very high. They also ranked Bo Nelson from OSU very high and I think he might be the best of this frosh class.

I think Peters' recruiting is a major problem. I think the poor performance of his initial class raises a serious question about his ability to evaluate talent. But I think his inability to coach these kids up is the biggest problem. Combined, I think they spell bad days for the program. The fact that you concede we might not do as well in the next couple of years --and I think we stunk in the NCAA'ds this year despite Tyler's great individual performance -- is really scary.

 

[pletch5]

Mike you know nothing about what is going at pitt. If your a fan you should just shut the hell up. What kid would want to have your kind of support anyhow your nothing but a flamer. Give the man a chance

 

[thom67]

I do not agree with your assessment about Mike 412. He may be overstating things somewhat, but he is mostly correct. Yes, it is too early to give up on Peters, but Pitt wrestling has been mired in mediocrity for 30 years.; thus, we fans are in a hurry to see things get better. We had a great recruiting class 2 years ago, but we have very little to show for it so far. Our team has regressed over the past 2 years and we lose our best 2 wrestlers. Wilps had a great finish for the season, but he is the only team member who exceeded or met expectations this year. We have 3 recruits (state champs), but none of them are highly rated on a national scale. Hopefully Campbell is very under rated since he had little recognition prior to the state tournament. There are many highly rated kids in western PA and we get none of them. Jason P has been with the program for 10 years so his hiring as head coach is not exactly a big change. Hopefully things get better, but I understand why fans (including Mike)are not optimistic.

 

[Warriordan]

pletch5 please share with us how you know so much about the goings on of pitt wrestling.m sorry these team has regresse under peters and most good wpial kids wont look at us. so why is mie412 wrong. please give us your answers.

 

[pletch5]

Warrior and others I do know Pete has had one good class and a couple guys this year. And ianyone knows it takes 4-5 years the bust rate in college wrestling is huge at state altons Phipps and goes on But pitt had a good class if you follow up with 2-3 more it wil happen. But unlike pitt go their website all support now and 5 years ago. This years wpial class who is going to state Chenzo Pitt has Campbell both one st champ next year who knows But as much as Pitt fan as I am I can honestly say it I will always remain Pitt in football and basketball Good luck to you guys

 

[Warriordan]

pletch5 I will also always be a pitt fan. maybe im just expecting too much in peters first couple of years. I just wish they would have gone to a young well known coach.

 

[Nish67]

Nice going guys. Scared off another loyal Pitt fan. Soon there won't be anyone left but fair-weather fans like you. I agree that everyone has the right to voice an opinion but, unless you all are intimately involved with the team, or any Pitt team for that matter, don't assume that your opinion is even close to the truth. So much so, in fact, that you can take to criticizing another alum's comments. It's too easy to say that coaching is the problem, or it's facilities, or whatever other negative spin you can offer. You look from afar, don't see the results that you want and offer your very unconstructive comments. What have any of you done to help the program? If you think the facilities are sub-par, have you attempted to get involved and help improve them? Do you know if the athletic department has a facilities blueprint for each of our teams? Do you actually know why a high school junior or senior selected another school over Pitt? Is there a common thread to our "losing" these recruits? Don't say it must be the coaching staff unless you know that for a fact.

You want to ask me what I've done, go ahead. But first let me explain that whatever I've done doesn't give me the right to be a critic. I want to give back to my school in a way that I know the money is making a difference, however small or large the amount is. If that's an endowed scholarship that gives you the pleasure of paying for Max Thomusseit's tuition, great. If it's supporting the remodeling of our wrestling room, great. I take the approach of actually asking coaches what they need. I do it in sports that truly have very few supporters other than the athletes' parents, like tennis and softball. As a result I've gotten to know many of our coaches personally. It saddens me when I read some of the critical comments on these boards. Do I get disappointed when we lose, sure. But I know how deeply our student-athletes hurt when they lose. Then they come on these boards and see all the negativity of their alumni. Their alumni. Not the press, not the opposition, whomever they are. Their alumni.

Shame on you.

 

[jctrack]

+1 Nish

 

[thom67]

When you say "you guys", who are you referring to? Mike412 has been negative, but I don't see anyone else that negative. I have been a supporter of Pitt sports for 50 years. I have followed and supported Pitt wrestling for that same time. That includes both going to wrestling matches and financial donations for the last renovation project for wrestling facilities. I have been to the NCAA's following Pitt wrestlers over forty times. IIf you watched the finals on TV during the Wilps match and heard the "Lets go Pitt " chant, that was my group cheering. I have not been critical of Peters at all. He certainly needs a chance to get things together. I have been critical of Pitt wrestling in general having followed wrestling for so long and tired of seeing Pitt not perform as well as Pitt should. With the number of top recruits within 50 miles of Pitt should make Pitt a national power with no problem.

 

[Nish67]

thom, the message was meant for those that rant, in my opinion, without ever making an effort to support the program, at least by their words. I don't want to make this personal by calling one or more people out. Then I'm no better than them. I'm one of those that believes that recruits and high school coaches read these boards and hate it when some of our alumni trash Pitt (broad terms). It's bad enough we catch no breaks from the local media, especially our own radio station. How many times have I read some of our posters mocking how other schools react (blow up) over negative events. Then they do the same thing here. I just expect more class from Pitt alums, especially on a public forum.

I'm happy to hear about your involvement with wrestling. I hope there are many more like you.

If I could ask for one minor change to the board, I'd ask posters to identify whether they are just giving an opinion or actually know something the rest of us don't. As I said previously, I'd like to know specifically why we didn't get all those WPIAL champions. From an educational perspective, it's no shame for a local kid to want to go to a school like Virginia or UNC. Especially in a sport like wrestling that doesn't have a pro career to which to aspire.

I don't expect my comments will change anyone's behavior. Again, I believe in the right to voice an opinion. I just felt it was time to voice mine.

 

[pletch5]

Great post Nish. If anyone doesn't think recruits are affected are dead wrong. It's easy for adults to say wow if boards affect kids then the kid is at fault. But whatever the reason kids are affected.

 

[thom67]

Nish67: you asked why kids go where in wrestling. The elite kids mostly choose a school based on the head coach. Having a big name is important. Also important is who the kids will be working out with. Nice to have former NCAA champs in the wrestling room. The goal for most elite recruits is to win a NCAA championship. They will usually go where they think they have the best chance to reach their goal. There are other factors, of course. Some GOOD students may pick a school such as Cornell that has a great program as well as an Ivy League education. Pitt has a special advantage because we have so many elite recruits close to our school, but so far we have not been able to use that advantage. If we got 1-2 of these kids a year, we would be contending for a NCAA championship. That is exactly what PSU has been doing.

 

[Nish67]

So two years ago we had 5 really good kids choose Pitt for, I'm guessing, some or all of the reasons you outlined. Since then we've only had one change in the coaching staff, Headlee for Wilps. Any thoughts on why the wild swing? For other than the top teams I'm guessing the next in line all have to deal with balancing their scholarship money. If we bring in 5 in one year, is it a stretch to assume we didn't have enough money left over to compete for more kids the next year? What would be helpful is to hear from the recruits themselves why they didn't pick us, or, conversely, why they picked Virginia, or VTech or UNC. We hear that from recruits in other sports, why not wrestling? Then we don't have to guess.

 

[thom67]

Tthere are certainly other reasons kids pick a school. One large one would be the amount of scholarship a school can give. I have no idea how much money Pitt gave out 2 years ago and how much is left. Generally the top schools give very few full rides out so as to spread the money out among 20 or so kids. PSU and Iowa may give a 1/2 scholie to an elite wrestler while a Pitt may have to give that same wrestler a full ride to get that same interest from the kid. By the way we had only 4 top 100 recruits 2 years ago and only one from West PA. While Bright(one of the 4) was highly rated, he did not win a state championship.

 

[Nish67]

thom, appreciate your comments. I'll ask my question again and hope that someone on the board can answer. Let's just focus on those local kids that chose other ACC programs. Do we know why? Is there any talk on Intermat or anywhere else that may have an interview with those kids so we can know the facts? If they said they weren't impressed with Pitt's coaching staff or facilities, or anything else, then, okay, we've got something to work with. If they couldn't get enough scholarship money from us, that's something else. If they picked their dream school, that's something else again. Anybody?

 

[thom67]

I don't think that info is available except from each individual wrestler. It may be a different reason for each different kid. I do believe that overall the reason is lack of confidence in Pitt's program. Hopefully that can and will change for the better.

 

[pletch5]

How many top programs are in a major city ? Seems much more in the country