Years ago I sat in the stands at a Big East baseball tournament in New Jersey and talked with our new AD at the time, Jeff Long. He had just come from Oklahoma and I was interested in his plans for our wrestling team. He said we needed to upgrade our facilities and he convinced me to make a pledge. The wrestling room renovation began shortly thereafter. It was his views on Olympic teams in general that really interested me. He said that his goal was to do what was necessary to have winning teams across the board. He wanted to have Pitt continuously competing for the Presidents Cup which goes to the top athletic department in the country, something Stanford and Penn State, among others, accomplish. Points are earned based on the success of each sports team so you have to have a well rounded program. The success our softball team is currently experiencing reminded me of another point he made - the benefits that added publicity year round does for all teams' recruiting. Look at the coverage the softball team is getting, both nationally and even in the local papers. Pitt's "brand" has become stronger. Picture constant coverage year round for successful women's basketball, volleyball, track, baseball, soccer, etc. I read with interest how our football team needs more alumni donors. I hope that while the AD's staff is wooing potential donors they also keep in mind all of our Olympic teams. We need to be first class across the board, including track and tennis, who have suffered from a lack of dollars. To be clear on my message, it's not about Jeff Long or his vision, it's about what Pitt's true goals should be.
Why successful Olympic Sports teams are important
- Thread starter Nish67
- Start date
Long may have said the right things to you, but he did not mean it. A few of us met with Long about wrestling. We had a commitment from a former Olympic champion who was very interested in becoming the Pitt coach. Long told us that he was not interested in any changes.
Like I said, my comments were not about Jeff Long, but about what Pitt's true goals should be. I tried to avoid comments like yours which are not relevant. Sorry to be confrontational but I've seen too many threads get hijacked and taken off-message.
Our attitude should be to resource all our programs to win championships. We don't currently do that but I have great hope for the future. I'll also say that softball now seems to stack up pretty well nationally in terms of their facilities and resources so it's probably not a coincidence that they're getting better and better and able to compete at a high level.
I certainly agree with you that the Pitt goals should be as you stated, but Pitt has never come close to following those goals. I have been around for a lot of years and I still hope to see changes. Two sports that could have changed quickly for the better were soccer and wrestling, but Pitt has done almost nothing for 50 years. I will give Peters a few years to see if wrestling can change. ASU gets a new coach(large national recognition) and has recruited 4-5 of the top kids in the country this year including two from western PA. ASU decided to have a big time wrestling program and it looks like they will.
By the way Nish, what does your "67" represent?
1963 - first year Towers were opened, Engineering undergrad, Delta Tau Delta, off campus senior year, stayed and got my MBA to keep out of Vietnam another year, lived off campus again.
I was in 602 A for all 4 years beginning 1963. Coached by Rex for first two years, then Johnson for two years.
Dino used to cut my hair that year. I think it was in your room. I also worked out with him frequently.
You know that few hope for Pitt's olympic sports to flourish more than I, and I have family that coaches D1 Olympic sports at other universities, but the reality is, Pitt has not had the money to invest in its Olympic sports.
There are two hard realities: Every D1 school must field 14 sports, and Title IX demands equal opportunities and conditions for women athletics which means every FBS school starts off down 85 scholarships.
The primary source of athletic revenue for almost all FBS football schools is football gate receipts. Pitt's average attendance last year was 54th out of the 65 Power 5+ND football programs. Its average ticket cost was dead last, and it wasn't close. Its athletic donations are among the lowest. Therefore (admittedly not adjusting for basketball which would give it a slight bump) its athletic revenue is among the worst of all its peers.
Pitt sponsors 19 different sports: 9 in men and 10 in women, plus the athletic department houses the marching band and cheer/dance squads. 3 men's and 3 women's sports (cross-country, indoor track & field, and outdoor track & field) have scholarship overlaps, no home meets, no facilities, little equipment costs, and no round-robin schedule. Although revenues don't come close to matching expenses across the 19 sport+band+spirt operations of the athletic department, Pitt does make a "profit" on men's basketball and football (although described above, football net is among the smallest in FBS).
To save money and balance Title IX over the years, the athletic department has given up sponsorship of the following 9 varsity sports: fencing, men's ice hockey, men's gymnastics, rifle, men's tennis, men's volleyball, men's golf, men's gymnastics, and men's water polo. Why were these specific sports cut? They were basically operated at a club sports level with no or little scholarships and did not meet D1 minimums for D1 sponsorship, or, in the 90s, to balance Title IX.
What remains...the 19 that remain... are generally either Pitt's most historically successful sports or Title IX bandaids (women's soccer and softball added in the 90s at the expense of men's gymnastics and men's tennis). That said, until a couple years ago, Pitt didn't even sponsor 15 of these sports at the maximum allowable NCAA scholarship limits (only football, men's & women's basketball, and volleyball).
Pitt has been forced, by the reality of operating on a shoestring budget, thanks to bottom barrel revenue generation, to invest most of its resources in its two highest profile sports that, obviously, are also its only real revenue generators: football and men's basketball. Like it or not, they are the primary sources of potential revenue, the only sports that factor into the world of life and death conference realignment scenarios, and frankly, the major reason that all other Pitt sports even exist at the major Division 1 level anymore.
On top of this revenue, which as mentioned previously does not match expenses of the athletic department, the university general operations has been subsidizing operations of the athletic department to the tune of approximately $10 million a year (among the highest in FBS), despite state appropriations to the university being deeply curtailed over the last 15 years (meaning the loss of hundreds of millions in funding over that time). For comparison, this is way more subsidization than your typical university enterprise. What was remarkable by the previous administration was the ability to keep the the university subsidization of athletics largely intact during the last decade plus of fiscal austerity.
The way things were going in the Big East, little was going to change to make olympic sports more competitive, because what was needed was money, which was in woefully short supply all over the institution. What did change for the better during that era was due to donors stepping up to endow athletic scholarships and build 3 decade overdue facilities like the Petersen Sports Complex. No doubt any athletic director wants to field championship teams in every sport, but that was essentially impossible based on fiscal realities of the place. So whether someone talked the talk or not, they were limited by what they could shake out of the piggy bank.
The biggest change recently is an influx of about $9-10 million more into the annual athletic budget thanks to the ACC. You're now seeing Pitt's olympic sports at least having at least the most fundament issues taken care of: a full complement of scholarships. But the other side of this is that every P5 school is also getting this bump. Where Pitt still may find itself behind is coaching and staff salaries, recruiting budgets, traveling expenses, facility upgrades, and general swag. Pitt will continue to have to find ways to enhance revenue, fundraise better, and operate even more efficiently in order to keep pace, but at least these sports will be on a more level playing field with the teams they're suiting up against because they'll at least have the same numbers of scholarship players and non-embarrassing facilities.
The best thing that can start happening to Pitt's olympic sports is for football and men's basketball to improve and bring in new benchmarks of gate and donation revenues.
There are two hard realities: Every D1 school must field 14 sports, and Title IX demands equal opportunities and conditions for women athletics which means every FBS school starts off down 85 scholarships.
The primary source of athletic revenue for almost all FBS football schools is football gate receipts. Pitt's average attendance last year was 54th out of the 65 Power 5+ND football programs. Its average ticket cost was dead last, and it wasn't close. Its athletic donations are among the lowest. Therefore (admittedly not adjusting for basketball which would give it a slight bump) its athletic revenue is among the worst of all its peers.
Pitt sponsors 19 different sports: 9 in men and 10 in women, plus the athletic department houses the marching band and cheer/dance squads. 3 men's and 3 women's sports (cross-country, indoor track & field, and outdoor track & field) have scholarship overlaps, no home meets, no facilities, little equipment costs, and no round-robin schedule. Although revenues don't come close to matching expenses across the 19 sport+band+spirt operations of the athletic department, Pitt does make a "profit" on men's basketball and football (although described above, football net is among the smallest in FBS).
To save money and balance Title IX over the years, the athletic department has given up sponsorship of the following 9 varsity sports: fencing, men's ice hockey, men's gymnastics, rifle, men's tennis, men's volleyball, men's golf, men's gymnastics, and men's water polo. Why were these specific sports cut? They were basically operated at a club sports level with no or little scholarships and did not meet D1 minimums for D1 sponsorship, or, in the 90s, to balance Title IX.
What remains...the 19 that remain... are generally either Pitt's most historically successful sports or Title IX bandaids (women's soccer and softball added in the 90s at the expense of men's gymnastics and men's tennis). That said, until a couple years ago, Pitt didn't even sponsor 15 of these sports at the maximum allowable NCAA scholarship limits (only football, men's & women's basketball, and volleyball).
Pitt has been forced, by the reality of operating on a shoestring budget, thanks to bottom barrel revenue generation, to invest most of its resources in its two highest profile sports that, obviously, are also its only real revenue generators: football and men's basketball. Like it or not, they are the primary sources of potential revenue, the only sports that factor into the world of life and death conference realignment scenarios, and frankly, the major reason that all other Pitt sports even exist at the major Division 1 level anymore.
On top of this revenue, which as mentioned previously does not match expenses of the athletic department, the university general operations has been subsidizing operations of the athletic department to the tune of approximately $10 million a year (among the highest in FBS), despite state appropriations to the university being deeply curtailed over the last 15 years (meaning the loss of hundreds of millions in funding over that time). For comparison, this is way more subsidization than your typical university enterprise. What was remarkable by the previous administration was the ability to keep the the university subsidization of athletics largely intact during the last decade plus of fiscal austerity.
The way things were going in the Big East, little was going to change to make olympic sports more competitive, because what was needed was money, which was in woefully short supply all over the institution. What did change for the better during that era was due to donors stepping up to endow athletic scholarships and build 3 decade overdue facilities like the Petersen Sports Complex. No doubt any athletic director wants to field championship teams in every sport, but that was essentially impossible based on fiscal realities of the place. So whether someone talked the talk or not, they were limited by what they could shake out of the piggy bank.
The biggest change recently is an influx of about $9-10 million more into the annual athletic budget thanks to the ACC. You're now seeing Pitt's olympic sports at least having at least the most fundament issues taken care of: a full complement of scholarships. But the other side of this is that every P5 school is also getting this bump. Where Pitt still may find itself behind is coaching and staff salaries, recruiting budgets, traveling expenses, facility upgrades, and general swag. Pitt will continue to have to find ways to enhance revenue, fundraise better, and operate even more efficiently in order to keep pace, but at least these sports will be on a more level playing field with the teams they're suiting up against because they'll at least have the same numbers of scholarship players and non-embarrassing facilities.
The best thing that can start happening to Pitt's olympic sports is for football and men's basketball to improve and bring in new benchmarks of gate and donation revenues.
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Your last sentence is the most important ....... especially regarding football which by far has the most potential for added revenue at Pitt ....... most successful college athletic programs make 3x as much from football as basketball while we make similar profits in the two sports ..... more success in football would really help the Olympic Sports !
Paco, I always enjoy reading your posts. I've commented often in the past as we have a common interest in Olympic Sports. The underfunding problems are not limited to Pitt. Two of my kids participated on Olympic Sports teams at BC. If it weren't for donations from parents, there would have been severe operational restrictions so I saw first hand the neglect that the "lesser" sports suffer. That's why all my donations at Pitt have been to Olympic Sports teams - wrestling, tennis and softball. It doesn't take a very large donation to make a difference and you can direct your money to a specific team through what's known as a "restricted" fund. That's how I've made many of my donations so I know it works. Big changes, I agree, won't come until football, in particular, can generate more revenues.
