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2004 Big East tiebreaker that sent Pitt to the Fiesta Bowl question

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What was the Big East tiebreaker in 2004 that sent Pitt to the Fiesta Bowl?

I know there was a four-way tie as Pitt, West Virginia, Syracuse and B.C. all had 4-2 conference records. Amongst the four teams, Pitt and Syracuse were 2-1 and BC and WVU were 1-2 against each other, but Syracuse beat Pitt in 2004. Was it higher ranking that got Pitt in over Syracuse?
 
The Big East's B.C.S. bid is expected to go to Pittsburgh, a team that needed overtime to beat Division I-AA Furman earlier in the season and might fire its coach, Walt Harris.

Pittsburgh finished its conference season tied with Boston College, Syracuse and West Virginia, but the Panthers are expected to gain the B.C.S. bid based on tie breakers. There is still a remote chance that Syracuse will earn the B.C.S. bid, but Pittsburgh must lose its final regular-season game next Saturday against South Florida and plummet in the B.C.S. ranking.

https://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/28/...se-slams-the-door-on-bcs-big-east-finale.html
 
What was the Big East tiebreaker in 2004 that sent Pitt to the Fiesta Bowl?

I know there was a four-way tie as Pitt, West Virginia, Syracuse and B.C. all had 4-2 conference records. Amongst the four teams, Pitt and Syracuse were 2-1 and BC and WVU were 1-2 against each other, but Syracuse beat Pitt in 2004. Was it higher ranking that got Pitt in over Syracuse?
Yes, specifically in that Pitt was ranked and Syracuse was not
Beating Notre Dame helped a lot. People who try to say that Pitt backed into that championship dont know what theyre talking about
Funny thing is that Walt did have a vote in the coaches poll while Paul Pas did not. So Pitt could have lost to South Florida in that final game and Walt could still have voted his way in
 
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Yes, specifically in that Pitt was ranked and Syracuse was not
Beating Notre Dame helped a lot. People who try to say that Pitt backed into that championship dont know what theyre talking about
Funny thing is that Walt did have a vote in the coaches poll while Paul Pas did not. So Pitt could have lost to South Florida in that final game and Walt could still have voted his way in

Oh come on. Pitt was in a 4 way tie breaker and got in based on being ranked higher than Syracuse. That is damn near backing their way in.
 
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We were one of the worst BCS bowl teams ever and the result of that bowl showed although there were other off field issues happening.

Unfortunately I was in attendance for that massacre.
 
Oh come on. Pitt was in a 4 way tie breaker and got in based on being ranked higher than Syracuse. That is damn near backing their way in.

Four extremely unworthy of BCS status. All season long each played hot potato with winning the conference. BC was probably the best of the bunch and could have wrapped it up with a win against Syracuse (without their starting TB) at home. Of course they suffered another WTF game and tossed the potato to Pitt. Fortunately we closed against a putrid SFU team and the rest is history.

And some here still think the following year Wanny drove a Cadillac into the ground.
 
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Four extremely unworthy of BCS status. All season long each played hot potato with winning the conference. BC was probably the best of the bunch and could have wrapped it up with a win against Syracuse (without their starting TB) at home. Of course they suffered another WTF game and tossed the potato to Pitt. Fortunately we closed against a putrid SFU team and the rest is history.

And some here still think the following year Wanny drove a Cadillac into the ground.

What is funny about the "great recruiting class" Wanny had coming in that all went elsewhere after he was fired......talk about a class that busted out. My god, I don't think any of those guys amounted to much if I can remember.
 
That was actually a special season in my mind. That team was stinking up the joint as 1 person mentioned they went into ot against Furman. The lost to UConn, barley beat a putrid Temple and where getting their ass pushed around by BC. Then it happened. Palko ran the ball and instead of shying away from contact he lowered his shoulder ran over the BC safety knocking his opponents helmet off, and totally changed the momentum of not just that game but that season. The atmosphere among fans was incredible. Like a switch the fans went from apathetic to totally engaged and into it. From that point for the rest of the season it was game on. As a fan you could sense how the team had a different sense to them. Even after that lost to Cuse in double OT, they game back and played one of the most remember-able games I as a Pitt fan experienced by beating ND at ND in dramatic fashion. I personally loved Tyler Palko after that game tell the world how he felt. I didn't think it was embarrassing to Pitt at all. It was honest talk from a kid who was playing his heart out. The rest of the regular season was fun. It wasn't until bowl season did Pitt have to "do its thing", and Pitt it all away. i would love to live 2004 seasons again, it was fun being a fan of that team.
 
What is funny about the "great recruiting class" Wanny had coming in that all went elsewhere after he was fired......talk about a class that busted out. My god, I don't think any of those guys amounted to much if I can remember.

His recruiting classes made up 1/2 of the All Big East 1st team.
 
I was done with walt after 03, but admit that 04 team overachieved. BC was the team that actually laid an egg that year on the way to ACC.
 
I was done with walt after 03, but admit that 04 team overachieved. BC was the team that actually laid an egg that year on the way to ACC.

Did BC pull a Pitt, which let Pitt pull a Big Ten (aka getting an undeserving bowl game and them getting whopped)?
 
That was actually a special season in my mind. That team was stinking up the joint as 1 person mentioned they went into ot against Furman. The lost to UConn, barley beat a putrid Temple and where getting their ass pushed around by BC. Then it happened. Palko ran the ball and instead of shying away from contact he lowered his shoulder ran over the BC safety knocking his opponents helmet off, and totally changed the momentum of not just that game but that season. The atmosphere among fans was incredible. Like a switch the fans went from apathetic to totally engaged and into it. From that point for the rest of the season it was game on. As a fan you could sense how the team had a different sense to them. Even after that lost to Cuse in double OT, they game back and played one of the most remember-able games I as a Pitt fan experienced by beating ND at ND in dramatic fashion. I personally loved Tyler Palko after that game tell the world how he felt. I didn't think it was embarrassing to Pitt at all. It was honest talk from a kid who was playing his heart out. The rest of the regular season was fun. It wasn't until bowl season did Pitt have to "do its thing", and Pitt it all away. i would love to live 2004 seasons again, it was fun being a fan of that team.

I remember that. It was great!!!

 
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I was done with walt after 03, but admit that 04 team overachieved. BC was the team that actually laid an egg that year on the way to ACC.

Yeah even after Pitt beat them, BC would have gone to the Fiesta if they’d have beaten Cuse. Cuse lost a couple RBs to injury and had to use safety Diamond Ferri. Ferri rushes for 100 yards and took a Matt Ryan INT to the house. Just a glimpse of his future choking as a pro.
 
Syracuse made it that high with a win over Pitt. Watching the games pitt, BC, and WVU were the best teams that year. Pitt beat both, BC clobbered WVU. Pitt was a different team than early in the season, defense struggled against 1-AA furman and a bad loss at UConn. Also had the loss to Syracuse but beat ND, bad losses but beat the good teams go figure. Pitt deserved the bid if anyone from the big east did, but they weren't on the level as other BCS teams plain and simple. Especially Utah, that was an absolutely outstanding team led by urban Meyer and with Alex smith at qb.
 
Oh come on. Pitt was in a 4 way tie breaker and got in based on being ranked higher than Syracuse. That is damn near backing their way in.
Pitt ended the season and got in by beating Notre Dame, Wvu, and Usf. Thats not backing in. Backing in would have been losing that Usf game and still getting in via that scenario i described above

Now, did they catch a break? Oh yeah. Wont debate that. Most teams catch a break or two. And since someone felt the need to bring up Dead Horse Dave, he quite excelled at catching breaks and tossing them in the trash
 
Pitt ended the season and got in by beating Notre Dame, Wvu, and Usf. Thats not backing in. Backing in would have been losing that Usf game and still getting in via that scenario i described above

Now, did they catch a break? Oh yeah. Wont debate that. Most teams catch a break or two. And since someone felt the need to bring up Dead Horse Dave, he quite excelled at catching breaks and tossing them in the trash

That someone was me and my point was more directed to the caliber of the team rather than a coach. It was a 6-6 team that somehow slogged its way to 8-4. It didn't catch a break or two, it caught plenty and still needed BC gagging to allow itself the honor of getting boatraced by Utah.

At least I served you up another chance to bash a former coach. Predictably.
 
And some here still think the following year Wanny drove a Cadillac into the ground.

QFT!

That’s one of the prevailing myths among Pitt football fans. I don’t know why, but a lot of people think we had this great program that we allowed to melt away. That’s simply untrue. I still advocated keeping Harris, but the program clearly had its issues.
 
QFT!

That’s one of the prevailing myths among Pitt football fans. I don’t know why, but a lot of people think we had this great program that we allowed to melt away. That’s simply untrue. I still advocated keeping Harris, but the program clearly had its issues.
We went to 5 consecutive bowl games.
Dave failed to make one for 3 consecutive years .

His crowning achievement was being so bad in his 3rd year that he earned out 5th win in a major upset.
Which he capitalized with momentum and good will by losing the home opener to bowing green.

Capping the season with a 3-0 loss in the sun bowl.

And yes- I was both at the fiesta bowl and the sun bowl.
 
We went to 5 consecutive bowl games.
Dave failed to make one for 3 consecutive years .

His crowning achievement was being so bad in his 3rd year that he earned out 5th win in a major upset.
Which he capitalized with momentum and good will by losing the home opener to bowing green.

Capping the season with a 3-0 loss in the sun bowl.

And yes- I was both at the fiesta bowl and the sun bowl.
I was at both games too. However, you left out that Wannstedt actually had a better record at Pitt than Harris. Harris brought the program further, but it was stronger and more consistent under Wannstedt. Fans who wanted to push out both were absolute MORONS in my book.
 
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I was at both games too. However, you left out that Wannstedt actually had a better record at Pitt than Harris. Harris brought the program further, but it was stronger and more consistent under Wannstedt. Fans who wanted to push out both were absolute MORONS in my book.

Dave had 3 winning seasons in 6 years
That’s not more consistent.
And comparing the program Walt took off the trash heap seems silly
 
Walt should have been fired after the Toledo game the season before, if that game was in Pittsburgh or was on TV most people would agree with me.
 
Dave had 3 winning seasons in 6 years
That’s not more consistent.
And comparing the program Walt took off the trash heap seems silly

We have all been down this road 1000 times. Wannstedt did indeed have two losing seasons in his Pitt coaching career. However, it is also indisputable that the three winning seasons that you referenced represent the program’s most successful three year stretch since the halcyon days of the early 80’s.

Sadly, that is a more consistent stretch than any Pitt coach has managed in decades.

As I said earlier, and which you reiterated, they definitely inherited different situations. However, a cold look at the situation shows that their overall performance was strikingly similar. Each had several strengths and weaknesses and neither could overcome a lack of support from both the fans and the administration.
 
I have often argued this.......I really believe Walt's last 3 years were overall better than Dave's.

And I think my reasoning is sound. Walt went 25-13. Wanny went 27-12. But here's the difference. The Big East was MUCH better 2 of those years (2002 and 2003) than what Wanny faced in his last 3. Notre Dame (common opponent) was much better in the early 2000's then during the Wanny era. AND.....Walt's team actually won (even though it was a convoluted tie breaker) the game it had to win, where Wanny's teams 3 times had a chance to win a BCS bid and failed each time.
 
I don’t think the Big East was much better pre-raid. I understand that’s the perception, but I don’t think that ever matched up with the actual on field results.

For example, the league’s bowl record was actually much better post-raid. I do agree that the BE was definitely better at the top pre-raid. However, it was also much worse at the bottom of the table.

As bad as Syracuse became, they never approached the complete disgraces that Rutgers and Temple were for most of the Harris era.

That’s the thing about the retooling that is kind of tragic. It actually worked!

USF, Cincinnati and Louisville all came in and definitely added to the quality of the depth of the conference. None of them were what Miami was before they left, but no program in America was matching what Miami was doing in the late 90s and early 2000’s. Frankly, few programs in the history of college football could match that run.

However, by the late aughts, Miami was also not what they had been prior to going to the ACC, so that drop off would have happened anyway.

USF at one point reached No. 2 in the country, Cincinnati went to multiple BCS bowls and Louisville was every bit the equal of Virginia Tech. West Virginia became a much, much stronger program under Rich Rodriguez than they were at the end of the Don Nehlen era, actually winning several BCS games against national powers. Randy Edsall also did a nice job at UConn, qualifying that program for a BCS game. Also, Greg Schiano is the greatest coach in the history of Rutgers football and developed them into a very competitive program - FAR better than they were when Harris was coaching at Pitt.

I think the difference in the quality of the league pre-and post-raid is often grossly overstated – I really do. I think the actual data supports that position, even if the perception does not.
 
I don’t think the Big East was much better pre-raid. I understand that’s the perception, but I don’t think that ever matched up with the actual on field results.

For example, the league’s bowl record was actually much better post-raid. I do agree that the BE was definitely better at the top pre-raid. However, it was also much worse at the bottom of the table.

As bad as Syracuse became, they never approached the complete disgraces that Rutgers and Temple were for most of the Harris era.

That’s the thing about the retooling that is kind of tragic. It actually worked!

USF, Cincinnati and Louisville all came in and definitely added to the quality of the depth of the conference. None of them were what Miami was before they left, but no program in America was matching what Miami was doing in the late 90s and early 2000’s. Frankly, few programs in the history of college football could match that run.

However, by the late aughts, Miami was also not what they had been prior to going to the ACC, so that drop off would have happened anyway.

USF at one point reached No. 2 in the country, Cincinnati went to multiple BCS bowls and Louisville was every bit the equal of Virginia Tech. West Virginia became a much, much stronger program under Rich Rodriguez than they were at the end of the Don Nehlen era, actually winning several BCS games against national powers. Randy Edsall also did a nice job at UConn, qualifying that program for a BCS game. Also, Greg Schiano is the greatest coach in the history of Rutgers football and developed them into a very competitive program - FAR better than they were when Harris was coaching at Pitt.

I think the difference in the quality of the league pre-and post-raid is often grossly overstated – I really do. I think the actual data supports that position, even if the perception does not.

Nah,totally disagree. Miami was a National Champion and back then, they were basically what Alabama is today. VaTech (aside from their penchant for head scratching losses to Pitt) was also a top 10 type of team. Pitt, WVU, BC, Syracuse then were also solid top 20-top 35 type of teams. Rutgers and Temple was bad for sure.

But I can remember these same very boards taunting all of the other conferences come bowl season because of our success then again come NCAA tourney. Those 2000-2003 years (which no doubt precipitated the ACC raid) was the high mark for Big East sports led by football and basketball.

In fact, if the Big East likely thought this through, it would have been them going after Florida State, Clemson and say Louisville in a raid. Because it was well known FSU and Clemson were incredibly frustrated with the football side of the ACC.
 
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That season that USF was ranked #2...they finished 9-4 and lost their bowl game to a 9-4 Oregon team by 56-21.

It was a little bit of smoke and mirrors. The Sagarin ratings of the late Big East wasn't that bad, that is true. But it was mostly based on beating up on bad teams in our FIVE non conference games Big East teams were afforded. Rutgers would go out and beat five cupcakes and then win three Big East games. Our schedules allowed us to game the system.

Pitt, to be fair, did play legitimate non conference opponents, to our credit.
 
Let's look at what happened to each team the year after the old Big East broke up:

+ Louisville went from 11-2 to 12-1. Teddy Bridgewater was really good. But they returned to an 8-5 type team since he left.
- Cinci went from 10-3 to 9-4.
- Rutgers went from 9-4 to 6-7 (and now is a national joke.)
- Syracuse went from 8-5 to 7-6.
- Uconn went from 5-7 to 3-9.
- Temple went from 4-7 to 2-10.
- South Florida weent from 3-9 to 2-10.

The good records were mostly an illusion.
 
We have all been down this road 1000 times. Wannstedt did indeed have two losing seasons in his Pitt coaching career. However, it is also indisputable that the three winning seasons that you referenced represent the program’s most successful three year stretch since the halcyon days of the early 80’s.

Sadly, that is a more consistent stretch than any Pitt coach has managed in decades.

As I said earlier, and which you reiterated, they definitely inherited different situations. However, a cold look at the situation shows that their overall performance was strikingly similar. Each had several strengths and weaknesses and neither could overcome a lack of support from both the fans and the administration.
You said he made the program stronger and more consistent.
I simply rebutted that hyperbole.

Over Dave’s best 3 years he won 1 more game that Walt.

Not stronger.
3 bowls in 6 years
Not more consistent

The end
 
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