Dixon took us to the Elite 8 and Wanny won 10 games. Then the bottom falls out 8 years later. What went wrong?
2009 - Top 20 in Football and Basketball
- Thread starter DiehardPanther
- Start date
2 good coaches that did things differently but had good results.
The stache knew recruiting was important.
That big east was the best conference in the history of basketball
What went wrong?
The big East went wrong.
We go to the acc... where we aren't good enough to compete year in and year out with basketball blue bloods.
We go to the acc.....where our pathetic attendance.....recruiting.....financial position. .....all gets exposed in a new league that actually has good football teams.
We go to the acc.... not to elevate our athletic image.......not to put our sports teams on the national map......
We went to the acc to pay the bills.....
The big East went wrong.
We go to the acc... where we aren't good enough to compete year in and year out with basketball blue bloods.
We go to the acc.....where our pathetic attendance.....recruiting.....financial position. .....all gets exposed in a new league that actually has good football teams.
We go to the acc.... not to elevate our athletic image.......not to put our sports teams on the national map......
We went to the acc to pay the bills.....
Aside from 4 teams in the elite 8 and two final four teams , you mean?
duke and unc in recent years would beat all those teams and the acc is stronger from top to bottom
2009 is the relevant year being referenced..and yes, unc was the best team that year- but the big east was stronger . Nova beat Duke and then pitt, falling to unc.
Uconn was in the final four.
Pitt and cuse in elite 8
Let's see, the Big East tied the ACC that year with 7 bids. 6 of those 7 Big East teams won at least one game. Easily had the best record in the NCAA tournament at 17-7 (.708). Had five teams reach the Sweet 16 (the next closest conference, the Big 12, had 3), and two teams reached the final four (more than anyone else). The only thing it didn't do was get to the championship game. The Big East also had 3 teams in the NIT, which was only bested by the SEC. Clearly the Big East was the deepest conference in 2009.
Which conference do you think was better in 2009?
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I assume when one talks about greatest conferences, one isn't just talking about the greatest individual season, because 1985 in isolation didn't make the Big East the greatest basketball conference of all time. If not focused on particular individual seasons, once the Big East added Louisville, Marquette, Cincy, etc, from 2006-2013, it certainly could be argued that it was the greatest basketball conference ever assembled. And Pitt was a heavyweight in that conference, competing at the top despite playing unbalanced schedules against more of the top teams. If one wants to argue semantics, fine, but I have no interest.
The ACC has a chance to match it that era. In some ways it already has, but I don't think it yet has quite the depth from top to bottom.
In true Pitt fashion, 2009 may have been a good year on paper, but remember that both teams badly underachieved. We might have had the best team in college hoops (UNC won the title, but Pitt would have matched up great with them) and yet failed to make the Final 4. The football team was Top 10 in late November before losing at WVU and then the meltdown against Cincinnati in the de facto Big East title game.
UNC was clearly the best team in the country. So you are making a case that Pitt fans are never satisfied even when they have Top 20 programs.
Basketball "badly underachieved" by losing on a last second shot to a #3 seed that beat us by 10 earlier in the season? That is ludicrous. It was one of the greatest games of that tournament and Villanova's guards were a bad matchup for Pitt. I don't know if I can call that even moderately underachieving. No one was beating Carolina that year. We were a better matchup than Nova for them, but we likely don't win that game.
Now, 2011 was underachieving even though Butler ended up being the national runner up, particularly how we blew that game.
Yes, the 2009 team underachieved in my view. That the best team in school history and a team that was #1 in the country at a few points during the season didn't make the Final 4 to me was an underachievement. It doesn't mean I don't look back fondly on that season, especially the two wins over UCONN. I'm glad we can agree on 2011.. and I'm sure 1988 too!
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I'm satisfied with Top 20 programs for sure, but 2009 was the rare Pitt team that was good enough to win a national championship and didn't even get to a Final 4. Like I said in my reply to Paco, I do look back fondly on that year. It's not black and white.
In typical Pitt fashion, Pitt had the bad luck to have it's best bball team in one of the deepest years. The '09 team would've had a great chance in the few years prior and after '09. Still had a decent shot in '09 but that UNC was stacked and there were several other really good teams, as we learned.
We were ranked #1 for 2 whole weeks in mid-January. We were very good, but we weren't even the best team in the conference that year.
Jackie Sherrill "badly underachieved" as well I guess.
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We were also ranked #1 the country in early March before the Providence loss. Maybe the word "badly" is much, but for that team to not make the Final 4 is the biggest example of Pitt fan disappointment in my time. I still have both UCONN games from that year saved on my DVR and that team was championship caliber. Maybe they wouldn't have beaten UNC, but they would have gone toe to toe.
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When your "expectation" is a final four, especially at a non blue blood, you are setting yourself up to be disappointed.
Calling the 2009 season a disappointment in basketball just proves the point that pitt fans will never be satisfied.
Football...that was a different story. Couldn't win a watered down big east, and had a team that should have legitimately been undefeated, but unfortunately had a horrible coach.
Well, it didn't take long for this thread to devolve into asinine discussion.
What is most remarkable is that we are debating if the hoops team was a failure (it was not) while that pitt football team had 10 first team all big east selections plus four second team all big east selections....and still lost three games and didn't win the conference.
What is most remarkable is that we are debating if the hoops team was a failure (it was not) while that pitt football team had 10 first team all big east selections plus four second team all big east selections....and still lost three games and didn't win the conference.
Ok you win. As a general rule, I agree that Pitt fans should be absolutely thrilled with the 2009 hoops team. Again, I certainly was too. But that was the rare elite team at Pitt that didn't even make it to the biggest stage. And it wasn't a one year wonder. Pitt had been building to that season for 6-7 years, hence the disappointment.
The season wasn't a failure. The final result was. That was Pitt's one chance to win it all and they didn't even get to the Final 4. I don't think my expectations were unrealistic that year.
from Las Panteras,
What went wrong?
The big East went wrong.
We go to the acc... where we aren't good enough to compete year in and year out with basketball blue bloods.
We go to the acc.....where our pathetic attendance.....recruiting.....financial position. .....all gets exposed in a new league that actually has good football teams.
We go to the acc.... not to elevate our athletic image.......not to put our sports teams on the national map......
We went to the acc to pay the bills.....
i have to say....this is one of the best posts ever on this subject.
I mean, doesnt this sum up Pitt's vision for athletics?
I agree with Las Panteras. Pitt sold out for the dollar. Very Nutting-like.
What went wrong?
The big East went wrong.
We go to the acc... where we aren't good enough to compete year in and year out with basketball blue bloods.
We go to the acc.....where our pathetic attendance.....recruiting.....financial position. .....all gets exposed in a new league that actually has good football teams.
We go to the acc.... not to elevate our athletic image.......not to put our sports teams on the national map......
We went to the acc to pay the bills.....
i have to say....this is one of the best posts ever on this subject.
I mean, doesnt this sum up Pitt's vision for athletics?
I agree with Las Panteras. Pitt sold out for the dollar. Very Nutting-like.
Do you honestly think the AAC is a better option? That was the other choice. I do not even know who plays in the AAC. They are practically invisible.
and yet many hold that 2009 Wanny team as some type of gold standard. A 3rd place finish in the Big Crappy East and a tire bowl victory.
The sad part was everything was in place for a magical season. Year 5 of the Wanny era when he has all his own guys in. Easiest schedule in years. A down ND team at home. Toughest road games were WVU coached by Bill Stewart & NC State. Should have been the year we ran the table and been in the conversation for the BCS championship. How anyone can be satisfied with that season is amazing and shows a defeatist attitude.
Yep. The ten wins sounds great, until you actually looked at what happened.
Gold Standard? BCS championship? WTF are you thinking? Your recounting of history is hilarious.
Wanny's last three years were the best since the 80's, that's a fact no matter how much you want to spin it. Good to solid teams, nothing more. You are first one on this board to suggest the 2009 team was championship caliber. I'm not going to get into the weeds with you but consider this. The six years post Wanny the gang of four has given us three (probably four after this year) losing seasons, one bowl victory (Bowling Green) against a dazzling number of embarrassing defeats as well as a few well earned program black eyes. Now I know you will reply with the same lazy arguments, but answer this question first. When will we see another 10 win season? This decade. next?
In retrospect, firing Wanny was a mistake. His last class was shaping up to be better than the last six. I firmly believe that we would be in a better place today had the administration not pulled the plug.
It was not a BCS championship caliber team, but the fact he couldn't win the big east one of those three years was absolutely pathetic.
Also, give me a break on his last class. If you thought Tino was bad, you would have loved Gary nova I'm sure.
Wanny would have avg. about 8 wins moving forward. That is about what this program is. Looking back - we would have been better off with him rather than going thru that fiasco.
He would have had similar results to Ferentz. It surely would have been better than what followed.
I'm not saying I was in favor of firing Wanny, but everyone should go back and read this board after the WVU loss at home in 2010 to remind ourselves of the mood around the fan base.
I really doubt that. He barely averaged 8 regular season wins his final three years here, and was clearly trending down the last year. The talent left behind for graham and chryst was pretty awful.
If he was only averaging 8 wins in a poor big east, I simply can't see him averaging 8 wins in a much better ACC.
And I always thought a recruiting class consisted of more than one player. You do realize Wanny was winning against the likes of Penn state (who currently is beating us like a drum), Michigan, and Nebraska. You do realize he was making inroads into Eastern PA and New Jersey. And he wasn't done before Petersen pulled the plug. Easy potential top 15 class. Sorry to burst your bubble.
Who were the players in wanny's last recruiting class that turned into impact players?
I'd describe the last 6 years as mediocre. I blame the chryst years moreso on the coaching carousel and wanny dropping off a cliff. I think graham was a great hire, but unfortunately he was a prick and bolted.
Wanny sucked. I don't know why people can't admit it. It also seems that people that were the most critical of Dixon seem to be most in love with wanny, and frankly I don't get that.
I always thought a recruiting class was ranked on letter day of intent. When did that change? And who knows how much more of less of an impact they would have made if the class remained intact.
You didn't answer my questions and deflected on the second point. Thanks.
