2017?

[gary2]

I would have hoped a little more of that rebuild would have come with the 2017 class.

It absolutely has to start with the 2018 and I'm losing hope that it will. I'm fearing 2018 will be as unremarkable as 2017 and maybe worse.

You seem to have a good share of optimism and I appreciate that. I regret that I don't feel the same.

I believe Pitt would have been happy to recruit players like Carr, Stewart, Frame, Stevenson, Ellison, Golden and T.Brown in any of our previous 3 recruiting classes. (I admit that I don't see a star - Whose team will it be? - But when Gray, Gibbs and even Patterson were recruited, I didn't immediately say he is "the man" either.)

You don't believe we should have been happy with the players listed above if they were recruited by Dixon?

Is the problem recruiting rankings? List of other offers? Distrust in the capabilities of the current staff? What?

You are giving up on 2018 already? We currently have 3 scholarships to fill with about 40 known, recognizable recruits that we are at least involved with. Why wouldn't we effectively fill those ships?

Exactly what kind of recruiting do you expect to see? I know you mentioned Johns at one point. Did you really expect Stallings (or any other coach at Pitt) to land Johns? Hunter? Carmody? Really?

I posted a lot today (much of it rehash). I laid out why I thought we are where we are, what our best tact for success is and what is the realistic recruiting necessary to support that tact and achieve success. These are my opinions and nothing that has recently happened with the 2018 class has in any way changed them.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Absolute abortion of a hire

 

[Revenge Of The Noise]

It's no risk to take him, because in a year he probably won't be here anyway. If he's anything like his offers, he's going to be recruited over. So you take him, and if he surprises, great. If not, he'll get cut in a year. The same with George, Davis.

Isn't this what Duquesne has become? Random junk that drifts in from nowhere, goes through the motions for a year, depart en masse? Exactly like Duquesne. Well except that we aren't even as good as them anymore.

 

[gary2]

I would have hoped a little more of that rebuild would have come with the 2017 class.

It absolutely has to start with the 2018 and I'm losing hope that it will. I'm fearing 2018 will be as unremarkable as 2017 and maybe worse.

You seem to have a good share of optimism and I appreciate that. I regret that I don't feel the same.

Another point of view:

https://panthersprey.blogspot.com/2017/07/pitt-basketball-prospects-bios.html

 

[pitt2533]

Another point of view:

https://panthersprey.blogspot.com/2017/07/pitt-basketball-prospects-bios.html

Again, on the surface, there is nothing wrong with the 2017 class if it was being added to a solid foundation. These are the types of classes that Pitt has always had and has built on. They get these types of kids and develop them into good players that can then carry the load as Juniors and Seniors.

The problem is when the class is basically going to be your entire roster, you need a few impact kids even if that is out of the norm for a typical Pitt class. He failed to get those kids in 17 and so far 18 has a good player to start but it doesn't appear they are in real good shape on any highly rated kids. Would be nice to land a top 50 type kid to go into the 18 class.

 

[gary2]

Again, on the surface, there is nothing wrong with the 2017 class if it was being added to a solid foundation. These are the types of classes that Pitt has always had and has built on. They get these types of kids and develop them into good players that can then carry the load as Juniors and Seniors.

The problem is when the class is basically going to be your entire roster, you need a few impact kids even if that is out of the norm for a typical Pitt class. He failed to get those kids in 17 and so far 18 has a good player to start but it doesn't appear they are in real good shape on any highly rated kids. Would be nice to land a top 50 type kid to go into the 18 class.

So - It is accepted that we had no foundation - It is accepted that Stallings needed to bring in immediate impact players (a difficult task in the best of times, certainly not very typical in Pitt recent history) - It is accepted that Stallings failed to do that - It is accepted that Stallings only brought in a typical Pitt class (like before the last 3 disastrous Pitt classes) - So - It is accepted that Stallings needs to go

Do I have this right?

 

[Jpripper88]

No..not now. But Stallings won't be in charge of the rebuild if its 3 straight non-NCAA seasons. He just won't.

It's not that hard in basketball to remake a roster, but you need a good coach and good recruiter. Also, a bit of luck. Maybe the 2017 class will have some future stars? I hope so.

Exactly. Fire Stallings and make a good hire and Pitt can be in ok shape in another 2 years after he is gone. Basketball is not football. A roster can be remade in 2 years. That is the argument many Stallings supporters have made. The key is: You have to actually recruit better players. Stallings is missing that by a longshot.

Whirly, your repetitive reference to hiring coaches with impact guys attached to their hip inferring it as some good thing is downright laughable. I'm sorry but that shouldn't be the reason why you hire an asst coach. Don't need to look any further than Pat Skerry.

That is almost exclusively why you hire an assistant coach.

 

[Jpripper88]

So - It is accepted that we had no foundation - It is accepted that Stallings needed to bring in immediate impact players (a difficult task in the best of times, certainly not very typical in Pitt recent history) - It is accepted that Stallings failed to do that - It is accepted that Stallings only brought in a typical Pitt class (like before the last 3 disastrous Pitt classes) - So - It is accepted that Stallings needs to go

Do I have this right?

We don't have a foundation because Stallings didn't even attempt to develop anyone on the roster and ran off the only legitimate player we had. He kept all those 2016 recruits. He didn't add ANYTHING to that class. He knew that throughout the entire year and still didn't seem to even attempt to recruit at a high level and most of his work didn't happen until after the season was over.

I also wouldn't call this an "acceptable class" no matter who the coach is. I would say there are acceptable players, but Carr as your only real legitimate recruit (and one with a relatively low ceiling at that) is very disappointing and even worse when you are bringing in an entire roster of players. If these were guys sprinkled on as the last or 2nd to last recruits in a class, that would be a different story, but as the foundation for the future and pretty much every one of them being extremely limited and mostly longshot prospects? Not at all.

 

[NTOP]

We don't have a foundation because Stallings didn't even attempt to develop anyone on the roster and ran off the only legitimate player we had. He kept all those 2016 recruits. He didn't add ANYTHING to that class. He knew that throughout the entire year and still didn't seem to even attempt to recruit at a high level and most of his work didn't happen until after the season was over.

I also wouldn't call this an "acceptable class" no matter who the coach is. I would say there are acceptable players, but Carr as your only real legitimate recruit (and one with a relatively low ceiling at that) is very disappointing and even worse when you are bringing in an entire roster of players. If these were guys sprinkled on as the last or 2nd to last recruits in a class, that would be a different story, but as the foundation for the future and pretty much every one of them being extremely limited and mostly longshot prospects? Not at all.

I'll root for the kids, as always. Hope for a couple surprises. Pray that Stallings gets a different job.

 

[pitt-girl]

So your saying the 2017 class would be perfectly acceptable if Dixon had developed and maintained a base? I agree. You can not build and maintain a team with grad transfers and JC reaches. That is patching, not building. Five freshmen (and not very good ones) in 3 years is all the evidence you need.

The illusion of competitiveness by winning all games against a weak OC schedule, then going 10-8 or 9-9 or 8-10 and barely making the tournament was just that, an illusion. Worse yet, it was an unsustainable illusion.

There are no awards for being at the bottom. Sign me up for the illusion every day.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

Pitt pushed or at the least opened the door for JD to leave , with an opportunity to step up and make an impactful hire by offering someone an offer they couldn't refuse they hired a guy they could comfortably afford . They needed a big time named coach with some relaxed recruiting rules to bring in the talent necessary to compete in the ACC . They've done neither so why are you expecting Pitt to all of a sudden recruit top talent ? Pitt is providing you with the product they wish to put out there for you , want it to change stop supporting the program it's that simple .

 

[DC_Area_Panther]

Pitt pushed or at the least opened the door for JD to leave , with an opportunity to step up and make an impactful hire by offering someone an offer they couldn't refuse they hired a guy they could comfortably afford . They needed a big time named coach with some relaxed recruiting rules to bring in the talent necessary to compete in the ACC . They've done neither so why are you expecting Pitt to all of a sudden recruit top talent ? Pitt is providing you with the product they wish to put out there for you , want it to change stop supporting the program it's that simple .

That's what will most likely happen. Attendance and revenue will plummet and the administration will be forced to consider whether to keep KS for the full length of his contract by weighing the buyout cost vs lost ticket sales revenues.

 

[TIGER-PAUL]

Attendance has been already leaking the last 4 years. I understand not wanting to support blindly, but to rally support for the few supporters Pitt does have to quit -will give you basically Temple.

 

[HailToPitt1985]

For KS to succeed anywhere, including at Pitt, he MUST recruit at least 2 top 50 guys in each class. And even then, since he can't coach a lick, that talent will, in all likelihood, be wasted. For 2018, he will need 2 top 100 guys and 2 top 50 guys at least. "Desirable" players won't cut it with a KS. Does anyone see that happening with this coach and coaching staff? I don't.

 

[HailToPitt1985]

No..not now. But Stallings won't be in charge of the rebuild if its 3 straight non-NCAA seasons. He just won't.

It's not that hard in basketball to remake a roster, but you need a good coach and good recruiter. Also, a bit of luck. Maybe the 2017 class will have some future stars? I hope so.

Well, we now have a very poor coach and a mediocre recruiter, at best. For any of the kids he has recruited to make even a small contribution to wins at Pitt in the ACC, they will need to play much higher than their rankings and not listen to Stallings and his coaching. They will need to ignore him. But with questionable talent at every position on this roster for the foreseeable future and not one impact player, I'm not real optimistic.

 

[gary2]

Well, we now have a very poor coach and a mediocre recruiter, at best. For any of the kids he has recruited to make even a small contribution to wins at Pitt in the ACC, they will need to play much higher than their rankings and not listen to Stallings and his coaching. They will need to ignore him. But with questionable talent at every position on this roster for the foreseeable future and not one impact player, I'm not real optimistic.

You are not real optimistic? - That surprises me - Almost all your posts brim with optimism

 

[gary2]

For KS to succeed anywhere, including at Pitt, he MUST recruit at least 2 top 50 guys in each class. And even then, since he can't coach a lick, that talent will, in all likelihood, be wasted. For 2018, he will need 2 top 100 guys and 2 top 50 guys at least. "Desirable" players won't cut it with a KS. Does anyone see that happening with this coach and coaching staff? I don't.

I think he needs 5 top 10 guys if we are to have any hope. That has to be the standard for the new "desirable",

 

[gary2]

There are no awards for being at the bottom. Sign me up for the illusion every day.

A sustainable illusion or the unsustainable illusion?

 

[pitt-girl]

A sustainable illusion or the unsustainable illusion?

Saying it was an unsustainable illusion is disingenuous since you nor I nor anyone else knows what might have happened.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

Attendance has been already leaking the last 4 years. I understand not wanting to support blindly, but to rally support for the few supporters Pitt does have to quit -will give you basically Temple.

My thoughts are if Pitt continues to get enough $upport nothing will change . Since there's no other viable option we'll get to see how good a coach and recruiter KS really is . Maybe he surprises everyone , but if doesn't as most suspect than the only way to force Pitt into action is to squeeze them where it hurts them the most . ( pocketbook )

 

[gary2]

Saying it was an unsustainable illusion is disingenuous since you nor I nor anyone else knows what might have happened.

The roster (before recruiting) would be this in 2017:

R.Nix
R.Luther
C.Johnson (maybe/maybe not)
D.Wilson
J.Kithcart

C.Manigault
C.Clark
J.Milligan

Remember you are Pitt (not Duke or UNC)and have 5 or 6 scholarships to give to add to the above.

How long do you think it should take to assemble a tournament team(when you play an ACC schedule)?

Forget Stallings is the coach. Presume if you want, Dixon is the coach or anyone (who doesn't cheat) else.

How long to make a tournament team from the above?

 

[pitt-girl]

The roster (before recruiting) would be this in 2017:

R.Nix
R.Luther
C.Johnson (maybe/maybe not)
D.Wilson
J.Kithcart

C.Manigault
C.Clark
J.Milligan

Remember you are Pitt (not Duke or UNC)and have 5 or 6 scholarships to give to add to the above.

How long do you think it should take to assemble a tournament team(when you play an ACC schedule)?

Forget Stallings is the coach. Presume if you want, Dixon is the coach or anyone (who doesn't cheat) else.

How long to make a tournament team from the above?

I have absolutely no idea. But I do know that you can't assume anything. We had made the tourney 13 out of 15 years, so I feel comfortable saying that it is possible these kids could have been coached into a tournament team. But this is a useless discussion because we will never know what would have happened.

All we have is the here and now. Hopefully Stallings will turn a corner this season. Not sure what happens if we have a train wreck like last year.

 

[gary2]

The roster (before recruiting) would be this in 2017:

R.Nix
R.Luther
C.Johnson (maybe/maybe not)
D.Wilson
J.Kithcart

C.Manigault
C.Clark
J.Milligan

Remember you are Pitt (not Duke or UNC)and have 5 or 6 scholarships to give to add to the above.

How long do you think it should take to assemble a tournament team(when you play an ACC schedule)?

Forget Stallings is the coach. Presume if you want, Dixon is the coach or anyone (who doesn't cheat) else.

How long to make a tournament team from the above?

I am sorry - I almost forgot Clark was heavily recruited by Oregon - He had to be a potential All-American.

Also with Dixon's coaching, Kithcart might have become the next Chris Paul and Manigault the next Durant.

 

[pitt-girl]

I am sorry - I almost forgot Clark was heavily recruited by Oregon - He had to be a potential All-American.

I find it interesting that it is okay to constantly put down the student-athletes but not the HC.

 

[gary2]

I find it interesting that it is okay to constantly put down the student-athletes but not the HC.

I think you actually need to play in an athletic event to qualify as a student-athlete.

 

[pitt-girl]

I think you actually need to play in an athletic event to qualify as a student-athlete.

Wow.

 

[HailToPitt1985]

You are not real optimistic - That surprises me - Almost all your posts brim with optimism

LOL! My posts used to be very optimistic. Not any longer. The reason is obvious. We have no coach. I want to be optimistic. But when you have an incompetent douchebag as your head coach, it's pretty hard. And facing maybe 8 wins at most this year, total, how can anyone be optimistic? The football team may win more games than the basketball team. When was the last time that happened?

 

[gary2]

I find it interesting that it is okay to constantly put down the student-athletes but not the HC.

I find it interesting that my remark about Clark was not seen as intended: A put down of the HC (Jamie Dixon)

There is long and analytical and there is short and sarcastic.

There is reasonable for the reasonable and something else for those that desire that.

 

[pitt-girl]

I find it interesting that my remark about Clark was not seen as intended: A put down of the HC (Jamie Dixon)

There is long and analytical and there is short and sarcastic.

There is reasonable for the reasonable and something else for those that desire that.

So again I guess we're back to Dixon? LOL.

 

[HailToPitt1985]

What the hell does Dixon have to do with anything going on in Pitt basketball right now? I'll answer that because I sense that some don't have the ability to give an objective answer. NOT A DAMN THING! This whole mess with the total lack of recruiting and incompetence from the head coach is entirely, 100% on Stallings and Barnes. No one else. It's time to move on and face reality. We are a program with no head coach.

 

[DT_PITT]

So again I guess we're back to Dixon? LOL.

At some point, I hope that everyone will stop talking about Dixon or displacing the responsibility of the current staff onto Dixon.

Three recruiting classes should be enough to show where we stand with Stallings.

The first class was the leftover class from Dixon, and Stallings chose to keep it and not recruit anyone else.

The 2017 class was less than adequate in my opinion, not bringing the type of players who project putting the Panthers back into NCAA tournament contention (except for Carr).

The 2018 needs at least 3 of those guys, and so far we have one. So we will have to see where it turns out, but we have a pretty good idea of what is needed.

By this time next year, Dixon's success or lack thereof should be completely irrelevant.

 

[pitt-girl]

At some point, I hope that everyone will stop talking about Dixon or displacing the responsibility of the current staff onto Dixon.

Three recruiting classes should be enough to show where we stand with Stallings.

The first class was the leftover class from Dixon, and Stallings chose to keep it and not recruit anyone else.

The 2017 class was less than adequate in my opinion, not bringing the type of players who project putting the Panthers back into NCAA tournament contention (except for Carr).

The 2018 needs at least 3 of those guys, and so far we have one. So we will have to see where it turns out, but we have a pretty good idea of what is needed.

By this time next year, Dixon's success or lack thereof should be completely irrelevant.

Interesting dynamic on this board. For the most part those who are most critical of the Ex-HC are the ones who seem to keep bringing him back up.

 

[DT_PITT]

Interesting dynamic on this board. For the most part those who are most critical of the Ex-HC are the ones who seem to keep bringing him back up.

Dixon may have been able to right the ship that was starting to sink when he left for TCU. Or perhaps had Dixon stuck around, the ship might have gone down even faster.

The second Dixon left, those both became completely moot points.

All that matters at this point is whether Stallings is the guy to right the ship. And he'll need to start by improving recruiting to do so. Thus far, he has not.

 

[pitt-girl]

Dixon may have been able to right the ship that was starting to sink when he left for TCU. Or perhaps had Dixon stuck around, the ship might have gone down even faster.

The second Dixon left, those both became completely moot points.

All that matters at this point is whether Stallings is the guy to right the ship. And he'll need to start by improving recruiting to do so. Thus far, he has not.

Totally agree.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Dixon may have been able to right the ship that was starting to sink when he left for TCU. Or perhaps had Dixon stuck around, the ship might have gone down even faster.

The second Dixon left, those both became completely moot points.

All that matters at this point is whether Stallings is the guy to right the ship. And he'll need to start by improving recruiting to do so. Thus far, he has not.

I don't think completely moot points. Not with a Sr laden team that Stallings inherited. Alot of their shortcomings were the same as before. So the criticisms of Dixon were warranted I felt for last year.

Now moving on, with the roster turnover. Now it the Kevin show fully. So our former coach really has nothing to do with what we as a program are doing now. None.

 

[DT_PITT]

I don't think completely moot points. Not with a Sr laden team that Stallings inherited. Alot of their shortcomings were the same as before. So the criticisms of Dixon were warranted I felt for last year.

Now moving on, with the roster turnover. Now it the Kevin show fully. So our former coach really has nothing to do with what we as a program are doing now. None.

You completely misread my point (a little telling on your part).

I'll post what I wrote again: Dixon may have been able to right the ship that was starting to sink when he left for TCU. Or perhaps had Dixon stuck around, the ship might have gone down even faster.

The second Dixon left, those both became completely moot points.

I was not implying in any way that Dixon didn't bear some (or even a great deal of) responsibility to the state of the roster.

The point that is moot is whether or not Dixon would have done better righting the ship. He's gone. It cannot be known and doesn't matter.

And starting with the 2018-2019 season, how Dixon recruited should not matter either.

Plain and simply, I hope Coach Stallings starts showing the kind of the recruiting that makes most fans feel we can get out of the hole we are in.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

You completely misread my point (a little telling on your part).

I'll post what I wrote again: Dixon may have been able to right the ship that was starting to sink when he left for TCU. Or perhaps had Dixon stuck around, the ship might have gone down even faster.

The second Dixon left, those both became completely moot points.

I was not implying in any way that Dixon didn't bear some (or even a great deal of) responsibility to the state of the roster.

The point that is moot is whether or not Dixon would have done better righting the ship. He's gone. It cannot be known and doesn't matter.

And starting with the 2018-2019 season, how Dixon recruited should not matter either.

Plain and simply, I hope Coach Stallings starts showing the kind of the recruiting that makes most fans feel we can get out of the hole we are in.

It's not a big deal DT. I did misread it a bit. I think we both agree that from now on out, he (Dixon) has little to no responsibility for the roster and program's plight.

 

[Delpanther]

I have absolutely no idea. But I do know that you can't assume anything. We had made the tourney 13 out of 15 years, so I feel comfortable saying that it is possible these kids could have been coached into a tournament team. But this is a useless discussion because we will never know what would have happened.

All we have is the here and now. Hopefully Stallings will turn a corner this season. Not sure what happens if we have a train wreck like last year.

Just assume this...Dixon was a bum and you'd be correct.

 

[KiwiJeff]

Just assume this...Dixon was a bum and you'd be correct.

^^^Blames Dixon for his crabgrass and his male pattern baldness.

 

[wbrpanther]

What the hell does Dixon have to do with anything going on in Pitt basketball right now? I'll answer that because I sense that some don't have the ability to give an objective answer. NOT A DAMN THING! This whole mess with the total lack of recruiting and incompetence from the head coach is entirely, 100% on Stallings and Barnes. No one else. It's time to move on and face reality. We are a program with no head coach.

That is absolute bullsh!t. Hate on Stallings all you want but the last 4 years of JD was simply not good and it showed in the lack of talent in the program. And that can't be totally blamed on a guy that has been here only 16 months. Don't be judging what an OBJECTIVE answer is because yours surely wasn't.