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2022-23

Sean Miller Fan

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Oct 30, 2001
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Which team wins more game next season:

HC Jeff Capel
PG - Odukale
SG - Horton
SF - Burton
PF - Oladapo/Jeffress/Transfer
C - Hugley
6th: Sibande

Or

HC: Mid-major coach
PG: Transfer
SG: Burton
SF: Sibande
PF: Oladapo
C: Transfer

I'm assuming Burton, Sibande, and Oladapo won't transfer since they've used their one-time freebie but who knows. A guy like Burton could do the old-school sit a year thing like Trey Zeigler and get an extra year of school paid for.

While there is no guarantee that all our key players would return if Capel came back, hypothetically if they did, I think our best chance to be good NEXT season is with Capel, Hugley, and those guards. Going the mid-major route means a 4th total rebuild in 6 years. Give me Hugley, the guards, and hopefully a key addition or 2 and I'll take my chances.
 
Which team wins more game next season:

HC Jeff Capel
PG - Odukale
SG - Horton
SF - Burton
PF - Oladapo/Jeffress/Transfer
C - Hugley
6th: Sibande

Or

HC: Mid-major coach
PG: Transfer
SG: Burton
SF: Sibande
PF: Oladapo
C: Transfer

I'm assuming Burton, Sibande, and Oladapo won't transfer since they've used their one-time freebie but who knows. A guy like Burton could do the old-school sit a year thing like Trey Zeigler and get an extra year of school paid for.

While there is no guarantee that all our key players would return if Capel came back, hypothetically if they did, I think our best chance to be good NEXT season is with Capel, Hugley, and those guards. Going the mid-major route means a 4th total rebuild in 6 years. Give me Hugley, the guards, and hopefully a key addition or 2 and I'll take my chances.

Completely awful post.

For starters, you have no idea who stays and who goes. You’re just assuming the best case scenario for Capel with everyone staying and the worse case scenario for the new coach.. when Capel’s best class was his first one.

But more importantly, this is missing the actual point. Who cares about the 2022-23 season??? Barring adding impact players not currently on the roster, we are not making the NCAAT next year. If that’s the case, who really cares what the record is??

If you have a new coach and win say ACC games but have the momentum of a new coach with new energy, that’s a helluva lot better than a 6-7 win ACC season in Year 5 with 0 fan support and firing him after the year anyways.
 
Really hard to take this seriously and give an answer when three of the six spots are blank for the hypothetical new team.

Well, the point is, you, as a fan, can say "I pick the mid-major guy" because I feel he will bring in better players to replace the guys transferring out.
 
Completely awful post.

For starters, you have no idea who stays and who goes. You’re just assuming the best case scenario for Capel with everyone staying and the worse case scenario for the new coach.. when Capel’s best class was his first one.

But more importantly, this is missing the actual point. Who cares about the 2022-23 season??? Barring adding impact players not currently on the roster, we are not making the NCAAT next year. If that’s the case, who really cares what the record is??

If you have a new coach and win say ACC games but have the momentum of a new coach with new energy, that’s a helluva lot better than a 6-7 win ACC season in Year 5 with 0 fan support and firing him after the year anyways.

Of course, no one knows who is staying or transferring. If key players transfer, Capel has to go. He doesn't get a 3rd total rebuild. But if they stay, that's what I'm asking. Would you rather have Capel returning Hugley + the guards or the mid-major guy assuming it would be a brand new team and total rebuild? We don't know who the mid-major guy can get on short notice but Heather is going to have to make many of the same assumptions I am asking you to make in this post. Is there a mid-major guy out there that you are so certain will win big here that you can pay $3 million to Capel to sit at home next year while the new guy suffers through a really bad season with all new players and no fans in attendance?
 
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Of course, no one knows who is staying or transferring. If key players transfer, Capel has to go. He doesn't get a 3rd total rebuild. But if they stay, that's what I'm asking. Would you rather have Capel returning Hugley + the guards or the mid-major guy assuming it would be a brand new team and total rebuild? We don't know who the mid-major guy can get on short notice but Heather is going to have to make many of the same assumptions I am asking you to make in this post. Is there a mid-major guy out there that you are so certain will win big here that you can pay $3 million to Capel to sit at home next year while the new guy suffers through a really bad season with all new players and no fans in attendance?

It doesn’t matter what the new coach would do next year. It only matters what Capel will do next year. If he doesn’t make the NCAAT, he’s gone.

Fan support is at an all time low. Lower than Stallings IMO. It would be higher with a new coach next year barring Capel landing some ‘22 recruits and actually winning next year.
 
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It doesn’t matter what the new coach would do next year. It only matters what Capel will do next year. If he doesn’t make the NCAAT, he’s gone.

Fan support is at an all time low. Lower than Stallings IMO. It would be higher with a new coach next year barring Capel landing some ‘22 recruits and actually winning next year.

I agree that if Capel doesn't make the NCAAT next year he's gone....unless he gets really close and returns everyone.

I agree a new coach would create more interest in the program and interest is at or near an all-time low but the team is going to be really bad next year with a mid-major doing a total rebuild so you can't possibly expect much bigger crowds than what we're getting this season. Very few Pitt fans are going to say "Wow, we hired the coach of San Francisco and have 12 new transfers, I am so pumped to buy season tickets for team picked last in the ACC."
 
I agree that if Capel doesn't make the NCAAT next year he's gone....unless he gets really close and returns everyone.

I agree a new coach would create more interest in the program and interest is at or near an all-time low but the team is going to be really bad next year with a mid-major doing a total rebuild so you can't possibly expect much bigger crowds than what we're getting this season. Very few Pitt fans are going to say "Wow, we hired the coach of San Francisco and have 12 new transfers, I am so pumped to buy season tickets for team picked last in the ACC."

No but if you bring Capel back many people like me won’t be renewing 3 club tickets.

Your point makes no sense. So many things have to go right for Capel to work out here at this point. To the point that there’s like a 3-5% chance of that happening. So if 95% of the time you expect to fire him at the end of next year and you have the money now, you do it now. This program can not afford to lose any more fans.
 
Obviously if he’s living in the portal and lands 2-3 good dudes and no one transfers yOure vaulting up this terrible ACC, assuming no one else gets better. But that’s just not gonna be reality in the portal. We’re gonna lose SOMEONE. At least ONE someone were counting on.

Btw, remember when Vader and everyone else said they punted on 2021 kids because they were in such good position for 22. I’m only bringing it up because it is so hilarious looking at that now.
 
Obviously if he’s living in the portal and lands 2-3 good dudes and no one transfers yOure vaulting up this terrible ACC, assuming no one else gets better. But that’s just not gonna be reality in the portal. We’re gonna lose SOMEONE. At least ONE someone were counting on.

Btw, remember when Vader and everyone else said they punted on 2021 kids because they were in such good position for 22. I’m only bringing it up because it is so hilarious looking at that now.

Where have you been? We’re in GREAT position with the 23 kids 😁
 
No but if you bring Capel back many people like me won’t be renewing 3 club tickets.

Your point makes no sense. So many things have to go right for Capel to work out here at this point. To the point that there’s like a 3-5% chance of that happening. So if 95% of the time you expect to fire him at the end of next year and you have the money now, you do it now. This program can not afford to lose any more fans.

I understand what you are saying but I don't think an attendance difference of 500 per game is relevant.

My entire premise is based on the fact that a mid-major coach with 12 new players is going to be picked 15th in the ACC and may be a 1-19/2-18 team and that Capel + Hugley and the guards has a much better chance of being good next year. Do you not agree with that? What makes you think the mid-major guy with 12 new players will be better than Capel returning his best players (if he does).
 
I understand what you are saying but I don't think an attendance difference of 500 per game is relevant.

My entire premise is based on the fact that a mid-major coach with 12 new players is going to be picked 15th in the ACC and may be a 1-19/2-18 team and that Capel + Hugley and the guards has a much better chance of being good next year. Do you not agree with that? What makes you think the mid-major guy with 12 new players will be better than Capel returning his best players (if he does).
Holy cats man, this is such an odd hypothetical. But let’s say you’re right and we get a Mm. Would you rather have San Francisco or Loyola or whoever is a hot name, Colorado state’s roster than ours? I bet they all have better rosters. So assuming they pull a Dambrot and steal all of their players, yes. I’d rather have their roster.

plus new Mm coach can pluck a couple of assistants who can steal from their current schools/classes. We could have a much better roster in like 2 weeks.
 
Holy cats man, this is such an odd hypothetical. But let’s say you’re right and we get a Mm. Would you rather have San Francisco or Loyola or whoever is a hot name, Colorado state’s roster than ours? I bet they all have better rosters. So assuming they pull a Dambrot and steal all of their players, yes. I’d rather have their roster.

plus new Mm coach can pluck a couple of assistants who can steal from their current schools/classes. We could have a much better roster in like 2 weeks.

Good question. It would depend on the coach. If the coach would theoretically bring all their good players and those players were better than ours, I'd say the MM guy might make sense. But while the MM guy may bring a player or 2, its likely their best players would transfer to a better program.

Basically, I don't think its worth it to pay $3 million to sit at home next year if he can return 5-6 pretty good players who may actually improve enough to be something.
 
Which team wins more game next season:

HC Jeff Capel
PG - Odukale
SG - Horton
SF - Burton
PF - Oladapo/Jeffress/Transfer
C - Hugley
6th: Sibande

Or

HC: Mid-major coach
PG: Transfer
SG: Burton
SF: Sibande
PF: Oladapo
C: Transfer

I'm assuming Burton, Sibande, and Oladapo won't transfer since they've used their one-time freebie but who knows. A guy like Burton could do the old-school sit a year thing like Trey Zeigler and get an extra year of school paid for.

While there is no guarantee that all our key players would return if Capel came back, hypothetically if they did, I think our best chance to be good NEXT season is with Capel, Hugley, and those guards. Going the mid-major route means a 4th total rebuild in 6 years. Give me Hugley, the guards, and hopefully a key addition or 2 and I'll take my chances.
Capel.
 
I understand what you are saying but I don't think an attendance difference of 500 per game is relevant.

My entire premise is based on the fact that a mid-major coach with 12 new players is going to be picked 15th in the ACC and may be a 1-19/2-18 team and that Capel + Hugley and the guards has a much better chance of being good next year. Do you not agree with that? What makes you think the mid-major guy with 12 new players will be better than Capel returning his best players (if he does).

My entire premise is that next year is a lost year so who the hell cares what our record is.

Also, I’m willing to bet that whoever the new coach is with the right assistants will have more momentum in spring recruiting than Capel who everybody knows will be fired + worthless Jason, Tim, and Milan.

And like bballinsider keeps saying, it basically doesn’t happen anymore that you lose no key players to the portal. even if you have a good season. So just banking on every player returning to a bad team seems silly.
 
Good question. It would depend on the coach. If the coach would theoretically bring all their good players and those players were better than ours, I'd say the MM guy might make sense. But while the MM guy may bring a player or 2, its likely their best players would transfer to a better program.

Basically, I don't think its worth it to pay $3 million to sit at home next year if he can return 5-6 pretty good players who may actually improve enough to be something.
Why do you keep mentioning the $? It’s not your money. You’re doing all these hypotheticals but care about imaginary money that even in real life you don’t have to worry about? Makes no sense
 
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My entire premise is that next year is a lost year so who the hell cares what our record is.

Also, I’m willing to bet that whoever the new coach is with the right assistants will have more momentum in spring recruiting than Capel who everybody knows will be fired + worthless Jason, Tim, and Milan.

And like bballinsider keeps saying, it basically doesn’t happen anymore that you lose no key players to the portal. even if you have a good season. So just banking on every player returning to a bad team seems silly.

Steve Forbes has Wake at 12-3 and just beat FSU by 22 tonight in Year 2.
 
Why do you keep mentioning the $? It’s not your money. You’re doing all these hypotheticals but care about imaginary money that even in real life you don’t have to worry about? Makes no sense

Also, firing Capel a year earlier may allow you to hire a guy like Medved or someone else who could potentially be unattainable next year due to another year on the resume or just more jobs being opened between this year and next.

Mostly, I just want to see someone truly desperate to win here. I don’t care if it’s out of love for Pitt (BK), hate for other ACC schools (odom?), someone who wants to get a blue blood job, or someone who wants to make a lot of money. But I really want someone who seems to care about making Pitt basketball relevant again as I do.

Jeff gave it an honest try for sure… but keeping all of his staff told us all where his priorities really are.
 
Also, firing Capel a year earlier may allow you to hire a guy like Medved or someone else who could potentially be unattainable next year due to another year on the resume or just more jobs being opened between this year and next.

Mostly, I just want to see someone truly desperate to win here. I don’t care if it’s out of love for Pitt (BK), hate for other ACC schools (odom?), someone who wants to get a blue blood job, or someone who wants to make a lot of money. But I really want someone who seems to care about making Pitt basketball relevant again as I do.

Jeff gave it an honest try for sure… but keeping all of his staff told us all where his priorities really are.
Yeah say it’s Odom or Medved. We don’t have to pay them 3 mill. They’d take it for less. Forbes is making just over 2 mill at Wake and had a similar resume and is older than those guys. Why wouldn’t they take it for 2? Medved may not, but Odom is an east coast guy. There’s no way he’s happy staying at Utah state.
 
Also, firing Capel a year earlier may allow you to hire a guy like Medved or someone else who could potentially be unattainable next year due to another year on the resume or just more jobs being opened between this year and next.

Mostly, I just want to see someone truly desperate to win here. I don’t care if it’s out of love for Pitt (BK), hate for other ACC schools (odom?), someone who wants to get a blue blood job, or someone who wants to make a lot of money. But I really want someone who seems to care about making Pitt basketball relevant again as I do.

Jeff gave it an honest try for sure… but keeping all of his staff told us all where his priorities really are.

This is where I am I just want someone who wants to win. Win to get another job , win to get a payday but whatever just win.
 
Forbes took over a train wreck and has WF turned around in Year 2. It doesn’t take that long nowadays to turn things around with the Transfer Portal.

Yeah I wanted (and part of me still does) want Capel to be successful but we can do better and it is time to do better.
 
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Obviously if he’s living in the portal and lands 2-3 good dudes and no one transfers yOure vaulting up this terrible ACC, assuming no one else gets better. But that’s just not gonna be reality in the portal. We’re gonna lose SOMEONE. At least ONE someone were counting on.

Btw, remember when Vader and everyone else said they punted on 2021 kids because they were in such good position for 22. I’m only bringing it up because it is so hilarious looking at that now.
To be fair it was pretty hilarious then too
 
To be fair it was pretty hilarious then too

Was it?

Examples:

Benny Williams- 5 Star- Team- Syracuse- 2 points per game -ORTG- 63- Bust this year

Jalen Warley- 5 Star- Team-Florida St. - 3 points per game- ORTG-86- Bust this year

Memphis- #1 recruiting class in the country- record- 7-5- Bust

Michigan #3 recruiting class in the country- record 7-6- Bust

Entire ACC Conference Combined- 12 total players with an ORTG over 100 as true freshmen, that's it.


That sums up most of the 2021 recruiting class in a nutshell. It was weak just like I said it was.
 
Was it?

Examples:

Benny Williams- 5 Star- Team- Syracuse- 2 points per game -ORTG- 63- Bust this year

Jalen Warley- 5 Star- Team-Florida St. - 3 points per game- ORTG-86- Bust this year

Memphis- #1 recruiting class in the country- record- 7-5- Bust

Michigan #3 recruiting class in the country- record 7-6- Bust

Entire ACC Conference Combined- 12 total players with an ORTG over 100 as true freshmen, that's it.


That sums up most of the 2021 recruiting class in a nutshell. It was weak just like I said it was.
1. We didn’t have a shot at any of Michigan or Memphis’ recruits
2. You claimed we punted on ‘21 for ‘22 (we have zero recruits)
3. At some point, a lot of the players we were after will be older than the next crop of “overrated freshmen”. Older for a program like Pitt = better.
 
1. We didn’t have a shot at any of Michigan or Memphis’ recruits
2. You claimed we punted on ‘21 for ‘22 (we have zero recruits)
3. At some point, a lot of the players we were after will be older than the next crop of “overrated freshmen”. Older for a program like Pitt = better.

The 2022 and 2023 National classes are both significantly better than 2021.
 
The 2022 and 2023 National classes are both significantly better than 2021.
That’s great Vader. We have zero recruits in either class. And other schools will continue adding pieces to what they added in 21.

Saying that the class of 21 was “down” is so dumb. They’re compared to who they’re gonna be seniors with, not who is going to the NBA in a year. I’d rather take more kids in a “down year” that can be building blocks forever. Instead we didn’t reap the benefits of anything.
 
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Which team wins more game next season:

HC Jeff Capel
PG - Odukale
SG - Horton
SF - Burton
PF - Oladapo/Jeffress/Transfer
C - Hugley
6th: Sibande

Or

HC: Mid-major coach
PG: Transfer
SG: Burton
SF: Sibande
PF: Oladapo
C: Transfer

I'm assuming Burton, Sibande, and Oladapo won't transfer since they've used their one-time freebie but who knows. A guy like Burton could do the old-school sit a year thing like Trey Zeigler and get an extra year of school paid for.

While there is no guarantee that all our key players would return if Capel came back, hypothetically if they did, I think our best chance to be good NEXT season is with Capel, Hugley, and those guards. Going the mid-major route means a 4th total rebuild in 6 years. Give me Hugley, the guards, and hopefully a key addition or 2 and I'll take my chances.
How about?

HC - Capel
PG - ?
SG - ?
SF - ?
PF - ?
C - ?
6th - ?

More Like It
 
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Also, firing Capel a year earlier may allow you to hire a guy like Medved or someone else who could potentially be unattainable next year due to another year on the resume or just more jobs being opened between this year and next.

Mostly, I just want to see someone truly desperate to win here. I don’t care if it’s out of love for Pitt (BK), hate for other ACC schools (odom?), someone who wants to get a blue blood job, or someone who wants to make a lot of money. But I really want someone who seems to care about making Pitt basketball relevant again as I do.

Jeff gave it an honest try for sure… but keeping all of his staff told us all where his priorities really are.

We disagree because a hypothetical lineup where Capel returns his 6 best players is talented enough to make the NCAA Tournament. You laugh but you know darn well that if you gave Dixon Hugley + those guards, they're sneaking into the NCAAT. Of course, Capel is no Dixon and we probably would not come come close to the NCAAT. But, as a fan, I would go into next season a little excited thinking we had a chance. Moreso than if we hire a MM who has to bring in all new players. So, next season is not "lost" to me.

Also, Odom and Medved are not mid-major coaches. They are coaching in the Mountain West, which is high major. We are talking about different things. Success at the high major level is much more translatable than winning the in the CAA or SoCon.

And my question applies only to next year. I'm not asking where we'll be 2, 5, 10 years from now. The question is simple. If Capel returns his 6 best players, which team wins more games NEXT season, Capel's team or a mid-major (not high major) lottery ticket guy, who I am assuming for the purposes of this post would lose Hugley and most other good players.

Also, for the Ryan Odom fans, I like him too but this is his first year at Utah State. If he wins at that level, he can almost name his job. I don't see him bowing on USU after 1 year to takeover the worst ACC program.
 
We disagree because a hypothetical lineup where Capel returns his 6 best players is talented enough to make the NCAA Tournament. You laugh but you know darn well that if you gave Dixon Hugley + those guards, they're sneaking into the NCAAT. Of course, Capel is no Dixon and we probably would not come come close to the NCAAT. But, as a fan, I would go into next season a little excited thinking we had a chance. Moreso than if we hire a MM who has to bring in all new players. So, next season is not "lost" to me.

Also, Odom and Medved are not mid-major coaches. They are coaching in the Mountain West, which is high major. We are talking about different things. Success at the high major level is much more translatable than winning the in the CAA or SoCon.

And my question applies only to next year. I'm not asking where we'll be 2, 5, 10 years from now. The question is simple. If Capel returns his 6 best players, which team wins more games NEXT season, Capel's team or a mid-major (not high major) lottery ticket guy, who I am assuming for the purposes of this post would lose Hugley and most other good players.

Also, for the Ryan Odom fans, I like him too but this is his first year at Utah State. If he wins at that level, he can almost name his job. I don't see him bowing on USU after 1 year to takeover the worst ACC program.
He 100 percent unequivocally would take the Pitt job this year. If Pitt waits another year, they most likely lose him to Clemson or a better job.
 
He 100 percent unequivocally would take the Pitt job this year. If Pitt waits another year, they most likely lose him to Clemson or a better job.

I like Odom but would like to see what he does in 2 years at USU. He is 9-5 this season and just lost to Air Force. If we fired Capel, he'd be at the top of my list if we weren't going the "splash route" but I don't think he's a guy you pay Capel's buyout for when he could return some good players because you're afraid he wont available next season.
 
I like Odom but would like to see what he does in 2 years at USU. He is 9-5 this season and just lost to Air Force. If we fired Capel, he'd be at the top of my list if we weren't going the "splash route" but I don't think he's a guy you pay Capel's buyout for when he could return some good players because you're afraid he wont available next season.
Lol
 
Was it?

Examples:

Benny Williams- 5 Star- Team- Syracuse- 2 points per game -ORTG- 63- Bust this year

Jalen Warley- 5 Star- Team-Florida St. - 3 points per game- ORTG-86- Bust this year

Memphis- #1 recruiting class in the country- record- 7-5- Bust

Michigan #3 recruiting class in the country- record 7-6- Bust

Entire ACC Conference Combined- 12 total players with an ORTG over 100 as true freshmen, that's it.


That sums up most of the 2021 recruiting class in a nutshell. It was weak just like I said it was.
Yes. It was.

One thing you’re very good at is cherry picking. Without looking, and I’m not going to even bother, I’m sure there were kids in that class that could have helped Pitt. Then if things start to turn around and recruiting ticks up you recruit over them. The idea of skipping an entire class is stupid and laughable.
 
Really hard to take this seriously and give an answer when three of the six spots are blank for the hypothetical new team.
Not to mention, on top of this, who are we recruiting? We have zero commits and no real prospects of having any commits. We have to factor this into any analysis of a "team playing hard".
 
Not to mention, on top of this, who are we recruiting? We have zero commits and no real prospects of having any commits. We have to factor this into any analysis of a "team playing hard".

If I was Vader, I would say the staff doesn't like any 2022s and will instead focus on the transfer portal to add a piece or 2 to make the NCAAT just like Wake did. Honestly, if we can get 1-2 solid ACC level players in the portal, we arent terribly far off from having a team with good enough talent to make the NCAAT.

I do think some programs will put less of an emphasis of HS recruiting nowadays since everyone transfers. Its better to land a free transfer guy because then you know he cant transfer again without sitting.
 
That’s great Vader. We have zero recruits in either class. And other schools will continue adding pieces to what they added in 21.


It's almost like as if you think that we could have brought in a guy or two in 21 and then brought in another guy or two in 22. That's just nuts man! There is no way a team could do something like that! Surely that would be against NCAA rules or something.
 
It's almost like as if you think that we could have brought in a guy or two in 21 and then brought in another guy or two in 22. That's just nuts man! There is no way a team could do something like that! Surely that would be against NCAA rules or something.

I kinda think Capel is done recruiting HS players. He was burned when his 1st class transferred. He probably feels, if he can get a Top 100, he'll take them but its better to recruit transfers because they can't transfer again without sitting out. With the free transfer rule, I'm not sure its smart for teams to put as much resources in HS recruiting since most players will transfer after a year or 2
 
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