3 Comments

[gary2]

Refs gave ND typical ND treatment

Glad to see we kept up the defensive pressure (even though it gave up the big three that kept the game close to the end)

Really need to be better from the line late in games

 

[Slick Manager of Champs]

4th comment:

Won't have to hear pittPoker whining for at least a week.

 

[Jeffburgh]

Refs gave ND typical ND treatment

Glad to see we kept up the defensive pressure (even though it gave up the big three that kept the game close to the end)

Really need to be better from the line late in games

That Kene "foul" at the end was ridiculous.

HCJC cranked up the pressure even more when the finally started to get the lead. Really, this under manned ND team is a great team to pressure, because outside of that Nate kid going nuts from three, they did not have strong ball handlers and didn't have much ability to hurt them attacking the basket.

 

[HailToPitt1985]

We have never defended the 3 very well. So having one player from a bad ND team go off for a bunch of 3's isn't surprising. He just had his once in a lifetime game.

 

[gary2]

That Kene "foul" at the end was ridiculous.

HCJC cranked up the pressure even more when the finally started to get the lead. Really, this under manned ND team is a great team to pressure, because outside of that Nate kid going nuts from three, they did not have strong ball handlers and didn't have much ability to hurt them attacking the basket.

That is how we should have played Wake Forrest and when Devoe got in foul trouble, Georgia Tech. This team needs to win EARLY on defense.

 

[PollCat99]

That Kene "foul" at the end was ridiculous.

How about the Trey call in the 1st half. He goes in for a layup between 2 guys that hammer him and ref calls a charge on him???

 

[gary2]

How about the Trey call in the 1st half. He goes in for a layup between 2 guys that hammer him and ref calls a charge on him???

Trey should have had 6 more free throws. The call you mentioned, hit on foul line jumper that caused an air ball and foul called on the floor instead of the act of shooting.

 

[levance2]

That Kene "foul" at the end was ridiculous.

HCJC cranked up the pressure even more when the finally started to get the lead. Really, this under manned ND team is a great team to pressure, because outside of that Nate kid going nuts from three, they did not have strong ball handlers and didn't have much ability to hurt them attacking the basket.

It's a call that has been very inconsistent all season. I am not sure if the NCAA considered that play a "point of emphasis" or they've just slightly altered the rules and thus the enforcement. I thought both defenders did the right thing, but there's a very fine line when the refs are judging verticality.

Frankly, that's a 50/50 call and nobody should be outraged by it. If our offensive player had been trapped and called for an offensive foul call, people here would be just as up in arms about it.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

It's a call that has been very inconsistent all season. I am not sure if the NCAA considered that play a "point of emphasis" or they've just slightly altered the rules and thus the enforcement. I thought both defenders did the right thing, but there's a very fine line when the refs are judging verticality.

Frankly, that's a 50/50 call and nobody should be outraged by it. If our offensive player had been trapped and called for an offensive foul call, people here would be just as up in arms about it.

That's not a 50/50 call. The "cylinder call" is supposed to keep defenders from moving into the offensive player's space. If, for instance, the offensive player leans over so that his foot is sticking out from his body the defender is not allowed to position himself inside the cylinder that extends up from his foot. In other words the offensive player has to be able to stand straight again without contact. Chukwuka most certainly did not violate "the cylinder". He stood straight up right off the guy and held his spot. That's not a foul, or at least it isn't a foul on the defender.

On the post game show Capel mentioned that call specifically, more than once, and said that he guesses that he needs someone to explain the rule better to him. Which was a polite way of him saying that they got the call wrong. Because they did.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

foul called on the floor instead of the act of shooting

The funny thing about that call is that all the players from both teams started to line up on the foul line for the foul shots, because everyone, even the Notre Dame players, knew it was a shooting foul.

Or I guess I should say everyone except the one ref who made the call. He was the only one that thought it was a floor foul.

 

[Jeffburgh]

How about the Trey call in the 1st half. He goes in for a layup between 2 guys that hammer him and ref calls a charge on him???

He split them perfectly, ref cant call that.

 

[Jeffburgh]

That's not a 50/50 call. The "cylinder call" is supposed to keep defenders from moving into the offensive player's space. If, for instance, the offensive player leans over so that his foot is sticking out from his body the defender is not allowed to position himself inside the cylinder that extends up from his foot. In other words the offensive player has to be able to stand straight again without contact. Chukwuka most certainly did not violate "the cylinder". He stood straight up right off the guy and held his spot. That's not a foul, or at least it isn't a foul on the defender.

On the post game show Capel mentioned that call specifically, more than once, and said that he guesses that he needs someone to explain the rule better to him. Which was a polite way of him saying that they got the call wrong. Because they did.

He literally dove through Kene.

 

[levance2]

That's not a 50/50 call. The "cylinder call" is supposed to keep defenders from moving into the offensive player's space. If, for instance, the offensive player leans over so that his foot is sticking out from his body the defender is not allowed to position himself inside the cylinder that extends up from his foot. In other words the offensive player has to be able to stand straight again without contact. Chukwuka most certainly did not violate "the cylinder". He stood straight up right off the guy and held his spot. That's not a foul, or at least it isn't a foul on the defender.

The issue is that the ref isn’t standing there with a protractor measuring verticality. It’s a completely subjective call. As I said, if Pitt had the ball there, nobody would be on here calling it BS.

 

[Gunga_Galunga]

Glad to see we kept up the defensive pressure (even though it gave up the big three that kept the game close to the end)

One thing I noticed the last number of games that wasn't an issue today was bailing out the other team late in the shot clock with a foul. It's killed them for a while. Play great defense for 25 seconds and then bail them out with a late foul.

Also, 14 assist and 9 turnovers. In much of ACC play they've had more turnovers than assists.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

We have never defended the 3 very well. So having one player from a bad ND team go off for a bunch of 3's isn't surprising. He just had his once in a lifetime game.

Having frame continue to “defend” him was a mistake

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

The issue is that the ref isn’t standing there with a protractor measuring verticality. It’s a completely subjective call. As I said, if Pitt had the ball there, nobody would be on here calling it BS.

Every foul call that every ref makes is subjective. That's not an excuse for getting a call wrong. And a call is wrong whether it's on the bad guys or the good guys. That was a bad call.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Having frame continue to “defend” him was a mistake

We were playing a zone, so at some level Wilson-Frame wasn't defending him. He did share in some of the responsibility, but only some.

 

[Cap pitt]

Trey, Xavier and Au Diese need to practice outside 3 pt bshooting and foul shooting for the next couple of years. None are very good at either

 

[DC_Area_Panther]

Trey, Xavier and Au Diese need to practice outside 3 pt bshooting and foul shooting for the next couple of years. None are very good at either

Well, the foul shooting was better earlier in the season and regressed for whatever reason (ACC induced mental and/or physical fatigue?). Their 3-pt shooting was never very good and neither X nor Trey have neither classic form nor quick release on their long jumpers. Toney has better form and appears to mainly need to be more open and to learn a quicker release, IMHO.

The FT shooting can and should improve. I am not sure the 3-point shooting ever will improve much for X and Trey--except that a stronger inside game (from better bigs) could create better more open looks which should help their shooting percentage.

 

[levance2]

Every foul call that every ref makes is subjective. That's not an excuse for getting a call wrong. And a call is wrong whether it's on the bad guys or the good guys. That was a bad call.

Come on, Joe. You can't really believe this. When is an extended arm a reaching foul vs a no call? When does a ref call a carry? There are dozens of calls every game which are completely subjective to the ref. Sometimes those calls are by the book and sometimes they aren't. We're talking about the infallibility of human judgment in a split second. People need to admit that in every single game of the season, a certain number of calls will be objectively "wrong" and get over it.

Just the other day there was a video posted here showing Trey intentionally tripping a Virginia player and a bunch of our own fans were legitimately arguing it was incidental. When he was called for that offensive foul on a made 3PA for kicking his leg out, was that objectively correct? If so, did the refs objectively get it wrong if he had done it repeatedly before that? Should our fans be arguing that we should have had more points taken off the board? Nobody whines about calls when they go our way, and they go our way roughly 50% of the time.

 

[gary2]

Well, the foul shooting was better earlier in the season and regressed for whatever reason (ACC induced mental and/or physical fatigue?). Their 3-pt shooting was never very good and neither X nor Trey have neither classic form nor quick release on their long jumpers. Toney has better form and appears to mainly need to be more open and to learn a quicker release, IMHO.

The FT shooting can and should improve. I am not sure the 3-point shooting ever will improve much for X and Trey--except that a stronger inside game (from better bigs) could create better more open looks which should help their shooting percentage.

Did X's shot look different yesterday? It did to me (and not in a good way)

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Just the other day there was a video posted here showing Trey intentionally tripping a Virginia player and a bunch of our own fans were legitimately arguing it was incidental. When he was called for that offensive foul on a made 3PA for kicking his leg out, was that objectively correct? If so, did the refs objectively get it wrong if he had done it repeatedly before that?

I'm not sure what you are getting at here. Trey obviously committed a foul when he tripped that kid, and yet it wasn't called by the refs. Probably because they didn't see it, but if they did see it and they didn't call it then that's just another example of a subjective call that the refs got wrong. When Trey got called for the offensive foul on the three it was obviously a subjective call, and one that literally never gets called in college basketball.

It seems like as if you want to make the argument that when a call is subjective it's OK if the refs get it wrong. And that's silly. Of course refs miss calls sometimes and of course the refs call the wrong thing sometimes. That doesn't mean that it's OK for refs to screw up a call. That just means that the human who is reffing the game made a mistake. The human who made that call against Chukwuka yesterday made a mistake. He clearly misapplied the rule. When a ref does that it's OK to say that he screwed it up, if for no other reason than he did.

Oh, and as far as what some people post about refs, let's keep in mind that there is a portion of our fanbase (and probably every other fanbase as well) that legitimately thinks that the refs, all refs, in both basketball and football, are conspiring to make bad calls against Pitt. Those people are batshit crazy, but that doesn't mean that sometimes we don't get the short end of a bad call or two. What they never recognize is that sometimes we get the "long end" of a bad call or two.

 

[levance2]

It seems like as if you want to make the argument that when a call is subjective it's OK if the refs get it wrong. And that's silly. Of course refs miss calls sometimes and of course the refs call the wrong thing sometimes. That doesn't mean that it's OK for refs to screw up a call.

...

Those people are batshit crazy, but that doesn't mean that sometimes we don't get the short end of a bad call or two. What they never recognize is that sometimes we get the "long end" of a bad call or two.

Yes, that is exactly what I'm saying. You will never watch any sport where 100% of calls, subjective or objective, are called by the book. It's not possible. I'm not applying judgment to say it is OK or not OK, just that it is reality. Some calls are always going to be ambiguous, and that is one of them. That is part of the sport.

College football now has automatic replay reviews and coaches challenges, yet fans still complain about calls all the time. It is what it is.

 

[DC_Area_Panther]

Did X's shot look different yesterday? It did to me (and not in a good way)

I didn’t notice it looking different on Tv to me. It seemed the same —lacking classic form, slower than desirable and with a low release.

 

[H2P 2003]

I'm not sure what you are getting at here. Trey obviously committed a foul when he tripped that kid, and yet it wasn't called by the refs. Probably because they didn't see it, but if they did see it and they didn't call it then that's just another example of a subjective call that the refs got wrong. When Trey got called for the offensive foul on the three it was obviously a subjective call, and one that literally never gets called in college basketball.

It seems like as if you want to make the argument that when a call is subjective it's OK if the refs get it wrong. And that's silly. Of course refs miss calls sometimes and of course the refs call the wrong thing sometimes. That doesn't mean that it's OK for refs to screw up a call. That just means that the human who is reffing the game made a mistake. The human who made that call against Chukwuka yesterday made a mistake. He clearly misapplied the rule. When a ref does that it's OK to say that he screwed it up, if for no other reason than he did.

Oh, and as far as what some people post about refs, let's keep in mind that there is a portion of our fanbase (and probably every other fanbase as well) that legitimately thinks that the refs, all refs, in both basketball and football, are conspiring to make bad calls against Pitt. Those people are batshit crazy, but that doesn't mean that sometimes we don't get the short end of a bad call or two. What they never recognize is that sometimes we get the "long end" of a bad call or two.

I don’t think the refs have it out for Pitt....I think they just aren’t very good. The charge on trey was horrendous. The call in the corner was awful. The loose ball foul called on trey where he got to the ball first was also insane.

And yes, of course pitt gets calls as well, and as a fan we tend to forget those ones, but there have been several end game situations this year where 50/50 calls went against Pitt, the Iowa game where they didn’t call a flagrant, the blackshear game, the NC state game where Davis got a steal and then was called for a questionable charge, and the several times our guys got hit in the head and it wasn’t reviewed

I do agree though. We just remember those calls because we had chances in those games.

 

[levance2]

I don’t think the refs have it out for Pitt....I think they just aren’t very good. The charge on trey was horrendous. The call in the corner was awful. The loose ball foul called on trey where he got to the ball first was also insane.

And yes, of course pitt gets calls as well, and as a fan we tend to forget those ones, but there have been several end game situations this year where 50/50 calls went against Pitt

So you regard calls against us as "horrendous", "awful", and "insane", but can't come up with any single play all year that might have been called in our favor? That seems logical to you?

 

[FireballZ]

It's pretty simple, better teams and programs usually get the benefit of the doubt from officials. Pitt is currently the ACC bottom-feeder. If Capel gets us back to respectable, no way we have some of those late calls against us AT HOME.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

So you regard calls against us as "horrendous", "awful", and "insane", but can't come up with any single play all year that might have been called in our favor? That seems logical to you?

Trey leg kick 3 pointer called a foul against cuse.

Certainly a fair number of out of bounds given to us, were I was certain we touched it last .

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Did X's shot look different yesterday? It did to me (and not in a good way)

The airball three he shot may have had more arc on it than any shot I've ever seen in my entire life.

 

[VincePITT]

Trey, Xavier and Au Diese need to practice outside 3 pt bshooting and foul shooting for the next couple of years. None are very good at either

Trey McGowens 31.4% 3fg and 75.8 FT, AuDiese Toney 25.0% 3fg and 64.8%. Brandin Knight's career numbers 32.% 3fg and 53.7% FT!

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Trey McGowens 31.4% 3fg and 75.8 FT, AuDiese Toney 25.0% 3fg and 64.8%. Brandin Knight's career numbers 32.% 3fg and 53.7% FT!

Of course what made Knight so great had nothing to do with how well he shot the ball, and if either of McGowans or Toney turns out to be even in the same ballpark as Knight in those other areas then we will really have something.