4th and 1 from your own 10 with 9:45 left

[Sean Miller Fan]

We were down 13. I realize a win at that point was very improbable and if you dont pick up that 1st down, a loss is assured but we were probably going to lose anyway. I was very disappointed we didnt "play to win" there by trying to gain a yard, maybe going down in scoring with 4 or 5 minutes left down 6 and at least making it respectable.

I know the college football coach's official down and diatance rule book says punt there but when you have the worst defense in school history, you have to take some chances.

 

[pittmeister]

Seriously? At that point you still punt.

 

[Pittx9]

I agree, go for it. Narduzzi's problem is he coaches in a way that would be smart... except for one altering factor. The defense is not just bad, it is a guarantee they will give up a score.

Yeah you punt and hope your defense holds, that is the obvious call there almost every time. But there is no maybe anymore, it is 100% certain the defense will not hold anyone. Punting was a straight up forfeit.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

I agree, go for it. Narduzzi's problem is he coaches in a way that would be smart... except for one altering factor. The defense is not just bad, it is a guarantee they will give up a score.

Yeah you punt and hope your defense holds, that is the obvious call there almost every time. But there is no maybe anymore, it is 100% certain the defense will not hold anyone. Punting was a straight up forfeit.

You go for it. If you cant gain a yard, you congratulate Miami and move on. Punting it, getting a 3 and out and getting the ball back down 13 at your own 10 doesn't give you really any chance of victory.

 

[pittman71]

99% of head football coaches would punt in this scenario

 

[TD_istheman]

"THE QUIT" That game is now referred as

 

[Seneca_Valley]

99% of head football coaches would punt in this scenario

You're right. And the other 1% posts on this board. You don't concede the game with close to ten minutes left on the clock.

 

[Franb]

99% of head football coaches would punt in this scenario

There is no way that you can say that is true. Given Pitt's offense and defense this season, attempting to gain a yard on that play is a very reasonable alternative to punting. None of us has any idea what other coaches would do, but we know what this coach did.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

99% of head football coaches would punt in this scenario

Which in no way, shape or form means that it was the correct strategy.

The notion that some of you people have that the conventional wisdom is never wrong is kind of funny.

 

[pittman71]

There is no way that you can say that is true. Given Pitt's offense and defense this season, attempting to gain a yard on that play is a very reasonable alternative to punting. None of us has any idea what other coaches would do, but we know what this coach did.

How many times have you seen a coach go for it in a similar scenario?

 

[pittman71]

Which in no way, shape or form means that it was the correct strategy.

The notion that some of you people have that the conventional wisdom is never wrong is kind of funny.

conventional wisdom isn't always correct but in this situation it was the correct call.

 

[TD_istheman]

No it wasnt, everyone knew when we punted, Pitt was going to give them the ball in our territory and points. Pitt is not your avg situation.

 

[Franb]

How many times have you seen a coach go for it in a similar scenario?

It does not matter what other coaches did in similar situations. This was Pitt, with this team, in this situation. Knowing what we know about Pitt's offense and defense, do you think that Pitt had a better chance of making 1 yard on that 4th down, or stopping Miami from scoring after a punt? We saw what the defense actually did, and we will never know what the offense would have done, but I will take my chances with our offense getting a yard in that situation.

 

[hopefultiger13]

We were down 13. I realize a win at that point was very improbable and if you dont pick up that 1st down, a loss is assured but we were probably going to lose anyway. I was very disappointed we didnt "play to win" there by trying to gain a yard, maybe going down in scoring with 4 or 5 minutes left down 6 and at least making it respectable.

I know the college football coach's official down and diatance rule book says punt there but when you have the worst defense in school history, you have to take some chances.

This is actually my 1st post on the site... Came over to talk some Clemson/Pitt football, but was perusing a few posts 1st. I don't follow Pitt at all and have just caught bits and pieces of games over the past few years. I feel like I'm pretty objective in this case.

You 100% put the ball every time. You are down by 13 (two scores). If you don't make it, barring a miracle you are down 3 scores (I GUESS you could score 2 TDs and get two 2 pointers, but come on...)

Down 2 scores, your defense HAS to get a stop anyway, why not 2. Even if you went for it on 4th down and ran it in for a TD. The D still has to get you the ball back. With almost 10 min left in the game. You punt this ball away.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

conventional wisdom isn't always correct but in this situation it was the correct call.

For the record, I probably would have punted there too. However the punt with less than 3 minutes left in the game was indefensible under any conditions. But my main point was that the notion that all or almost all coaches would do something so therefore it must be the right decision is absolutely incorrect.

 

[Franb]

Which in no way, shape or form means that it was the correct strategy.

The notion that some of you people have that the conventional wisdom is never wrong is kind of funny.

And actually, it is not even "wisdom."

This is actually my 1st post on the site... Came over to talk some Clemson/Pitt football, but was perusing a few posts 1st. I don't follow Pitt at all and have just caught bits and pieces of games over the past few years. I feel like I'm pretty objective in this case.

You 100% put the ball every time. You are down by 13 (two scores). If you don't make it, barring a miracle you are down 3 scores (I GUESS you could score 2 TDs and get two 2 pointers, but come on...)

Down 2 scores, your defense HAS to get a stop anyway, why not 2. Even if you went for it on 4th down and ran it in for a TD. The D still has to get you the ball back. With almost 10 min left in the game. You punt this ball away.[/QUOTE
Have you seen Pitt's defense this year? It is bad, very bad. That is the basis for my argument that the best course was to go for the first down. Last week, against VT, Pitt scored with about 3 minutes left, to cut its deficit to 3 points. Rather than try an on side kick, we kicked deep, and then VT ran 3 plays for a first down and ran out the clock. This defense has not been able to come up with stops late in games all year, and I do not have any confidence that they will going forward.

 

[Franb]

This is actually my 1st post on the site... Came over to talk some Clemson/Pitt football, but was perusing a few posts 1st. I don't follow Pitt at all and have just caught bits and pieces of games over the past few years. I feel like I'm pretty objective in this case.

You 100% put the ball every time. You are down by 13 (two scores). If you don't make it, barring a miracle you are down 3 scores (I GUESS you could score 2 TDs and get two 2 pointers, but come on...)

Down 2 scores, your defense HAS to get a stop anyway, why not 2. Even if you went for it on 4th down and ran it in for a TD. The D still has to get you the ball back. With almost 10 min left in the game. You punt this ball away.

This is actually my 1st post on the site... Came over to talk some Clemson/Pitt football, but was perusing a few posts 1st. I don't follow Pitt at all and have just caught bits and pieces of games over the past few years. I feel like I'm pretty objective in this case.

You 100% put the ball every time. You are down by 13 (two scores). If you don't make it, barring a miracle you are down 3 scores (I GUESS you could score 2 TDs and get two 2 pointers, but come on...)

Down 2 scores, your defense HAS to get a stop anyway, why not 2. Even if you went for it on 4th down and ran it in for a TD. The D still has to get you the ball back. With almost 10 min left in the game. You punt this ball away.

Have you seen Pitt's defense this year? It is bad, very bad. That is why I advocate for going for it on 4th and 1. This defense has not been able to get stops late in games all year. After the punt, Miami was almost in field goal range anyway, so the upside is not good. Last week, against VT, Pitt scored with about 3 minutes left to cut the deficit to 3, and kicked deep, rather than trying an on side kick. The defense gave up a first down on 3 runs, and VT was able to run out the clock.

 

[Delpanther]

In the whole scheme of things that play was a non-issue. You want to discuss play calling-discuss passing from the 3 yard line with what's supposed to be the best OL in the conference and a good power back. Now that's a questionable call.

 

[cpc247]

We were down 13. I realize a win at that point was very improbable and if you dont pick up that 1st down, a loss is assured but we were probably going to lose anyway. I was very disappointed we didnt "play to win" there by trying to gain a yard, maybe going down in scoring with 4 or 5 minutes left down 6 and at least making it respectable.

I know the college football coach's official down and diatance rule book says punt there but when you have the worst defense in school history, you have to take some chances.

I couldn't agree with this more. I thought about posting on this topic. Over the time Narduzzi has been here I can't say enough good things about him and his style of coaching. This to me was the first big mistake he has made. This play clearly said "F it ...let's go home and try again next year". I am very supportive of Narduzzi, his plan, and the players he's bringing in, but this was out of character compared to his previous choices.

H2P...

 

[Franb]

In the whole scheme of things that play was a non-issue. You want to discuss play calling-discuss passing from the 3 yard line with what's supposed to be the best OL in the conference and a good power back. Now that's a questionable call.

This is not about play calling, it is about strategy. If Pitt makes a first down in that situation, they keep the ball and have a chance to score. Punting takes away that opportunity and forces the defense to make a stop.

 

[Nittany1997]

Give the ball to Connor over the top!

 

[Delpanther]

This is not about play calling, it is about strategy. If Pitt makes a first down in that situation, they keep the ball and have a chance to score. Punting takes away that opportunity and forces the defense to make a stop.

It was futile at that point. 99% of coaches would have punted in that situation. People who harp on that play are just contirving an issue.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

I couldn't agree with this more. I thought about posting on this topic. Over the time Narduzzi has been here I can't say enough good things about him and his style of coaching. This to me was the first big mistake he has made. This play clearly said "F it ...let's go home and try again next year". I am very supportive of Narduzzi, his plan, and the players he's bringing in, but this was out of character compared to his previous choices.

H2P...

And the punt, down 16 with under 3 left was almost as bad. A Miami fan sitting in front of me was beside himself that Narduzzi would punt there. I mean Narduzzi literally conceded the game there. Again, I know there was only a .001% chance we would have gotten the 1st, scored a TD, got the 2, got an onside kick, scored another TD, and got another 2 but you don't quit. Narduzzi quit and I think the main reason was that he was trying to prevent Miami from hanging 50 with a short field. Ironically, that didn't even work out.

 

[Pittx9]

The issue is you can't punt there when your defense gets a record broken on them every week.

He's a defensive minded coach, we saw last year how that affects his judgement. But with this year's sad bunch, he just has way too much confidence in the defense.

I think he will do great here, but that is my one concern right now. He still honestly believes this defense can go out and get the job done. He will never hesitate to punt and hope the defense can get the ball back. This is the same guy that DIDNT onside kick with around 2:30 left against VT, after they just humiliated the defense the drive before, and all night really. Waaaaay too much confidence in this defense.

 

[pittmeister]

Only on this board would someone question punting deep in your own
territory with 10 minutes left and down two scores.

The game was still winnable. You don't piss it away at that point. You punt and try and get a stop. Or considering the bad weather, a turnover.

Now not going for it with less than 3 minutes left is a legit argument.

 

[Swervin27]

We were down 13. I realize a win at that point was very improbable and if you dont pick up that 1st down, a loss is assured but we were probably going to lose anyway. I was very disappointed we didnt "play to win" there by trying to gain a yard, maybe going down in scoring with 4 or 5 minutes left down 6 and at least making it respectable.

I know the college football coach's official down and diatance rule book says punt there but when you have the worst defense in school history, you have to take some chances.

I see this a lot, these "Conservative" decisions, a lot more so in the NFL. HOnestly, I think the coaches know what we know, that to have any chance at a win, you HAVE to go for it, yet they punt anyways for the sole reason to "save face." In short, to make the loss not look at bad.. Duzzi knows that if they punt there, they are basically admitting defeat but didn't want to take the chance of going for it because you basically give the ball to them at the 10.. It's basically the equivalent of "laying up" in golf on the 18th, full well knowing you need a birdie to win..

 

[upj87]

99% of head football coaches would punt in this scenario

correction, 99% of head football coaches not in this situation against a Pitt defense...I'm thinking Randy Edsal and even Ga Tech this year....

 

[Delpanther]

Only on this board would someone question punting deep in your own
territory with 10 minutes left and down two scores.

The game was still winnable. You don't piss it away at that point. You punt and try and get a stop. Or considering the bad weather, a turnover.

Now not going for it with less than 3 minutes left is a legit argument.[/ong theoretically winnable if you were watching what was hspprning in the field It was s nonissue.

 

[Seneca_Valley]

Only on this board would someone question punting deep in your own
territory with 10 minutes left and down two scores.

The game was still winnable. You don't piss it away at that point. You punt and try and get a stop. Or considering the bad weather, a turnover.

Now not going for it with less than 3 minutes left is a legit argument.

Good post. You don't roll the dice with ten minutes to play and bad field position; no matter how ineffective the defense played through three quarters. They would need to make a stop of two anyways. Simply common sense.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

I see this a lot, these "Conservative" decisions, a lot more so in the NFL. HOnestly, I think the coaches know what we know, that to have any chance at a win, you HAVE to go for it, yet they punt anyways for the sole reason to "save face." In short, to make the loss not look at bad.. Duzzi knows that if they punt there, they are basically admitting defeat but didn't want to take the chance of going for it because you basically give the ball to them at the 10.. It's basically the equivalent of "laying up" in golf on the 18th, full well knowing you need a birdie to win..

Yes, statistics overwhelmingly show you should go for it on almost every 4th and 1. Freakonomics did a study on this and interviewed some coaches and the result was coaches knew they'd likely gain the yard but if they didn't, it could affect their job security. Nobody would have faulted Paul Johnson for punting and playing for OT even though there was probably a 90% chance of gaining a yard. However, now he is a moron for going for it and giving Pitt the win. Its just how it works.

 

[PittHOFs]

Pitt should onside kick and fake punt every time.

 

[9nationalchampionships]

If we would have gone for it and not made most you would bitch that decision. We were two scores away.

 

[Swervin27]

If we would have gone for it and not made most you would bitch that decision. We were two scores away.

No I don't I commend him for taking a risk and not basically giving up which is what exactly that decision was.

 

[pittman71]

correction, 99% of head football coaches not in this situation against a Pitt defense...I'm thinking Randy Edsal and even Ga Tech this year....

GA Tech is a perfect example of why you shouldn't go for it, they just handed the game to Pitt.

I will never attack a coach for punting from his own 10 yard line with 10 minutes to go, I can't even believe we are having this discussion

 

[sshulk]

Navy would go for it and they'd make it

 

[9nationalchampionships]

Please disclose your coaching resume.

No I don't I commend him for taking a risk and not basically giving up which is what exactly that decision was.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Please disclose your coaching resume.

Just so we are all clear, does one need to be a coach to comment on coaching decisions? How far does it extend? Can only professional football coaches comment on NFL games, but it's OK for college coaches to comment on college games? Does this sort of thought process extend to other fields as well? Can only politicians comment on other politicians? Can only structural engineers comment on the idiots who almost dropped the Liberty Bridge into the river?

 

[9nationalchampionships]

Plug the scenario with coaches and ask them what they would do in that situation. I think we made the right decision at that time. Hindsight isn't 20/20 but rather perfect and we do not have that at our current time.

Just so we are all clear, does one need to be a coach to comment on coaching decisions? How far does it extend? Can only professional football coaches comment on NFL games, but it's OK for college coaches to comment on college games? Does this sort of thought process extend to other fields as well? Can only politicians comment on other politicians? Can only structural engineers comment on the idiots who almost dropped the Liberty Bridge into the river?

 

[Swervin27]

Please disclose your coaching resume.

No coaching. I did ref some games when I took a basketball course at Pitt. There were 5 teams, on off week, you'd have to ref.


True story, so I'm Reffing and the one team is up by 5, the team I want to lose because my team is second. So a few seconds left the team fouls so I call an intentional foul. Dude flips out on me and I give him a T, tell him that the foul was during the shot so they get 3 foul shots AND the ball.

So now three of the dudes flip out on me. The instructor runs over to see what's going on and I tell him my side of it. He looks at me, tells me to leave and he changes the call.

 

[9nationalchampionships]

Sounds like you have real sports knowledge. I would have punted in that situation but understand how great it would have been had we gone for it and made it.

No coaching. I did ref some games when I took a basketball course at Pitt. There were 5 teams, on off week, you'd have to ref.


True story, so I'm Reffing and the one team is up by 5, the team I want to lose because my team is second. So a few seconds left the team fouls so I call an intentional foul. Dude flips out on me and I give him a T, tell him that the foul was during the shot so they get 3 foul shots AND the ball.

So now three of the dudes flip out on me. The instructor runs over to see what's going on and I tell him my side of it. He looks at me, tells me to leave and he changes the call.