4th and Very Short

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

I will qualify this by disclosing that I am not a physicist. However, am I insane, or does a QB sneak with two guys pushing him from behind not make more sense than, well, pretty much anything else? Like, it was formerly outlawed - that is how advantageous it is.

It makes me want to put my head through a wall when I continually see teams running sweeps, other off-tackle plays, handing the ball to a back who is 5-yards deep, etc. on 4th and a freaking foot.

 

[jmcst5]

Yep that should be the call every single time. Anything else leaves too much opportunity for missed assignments and defensive players getting into the backfield. It seems like coaches over think the play call sometimes. I would imagine the conversion percentage for sneaks is extremely high. So I totally agree with you.

 

[The Ole Six-Fiver]

OC who call anything but the assisted sneak in that situation are auditioning for new jobs. Perhaps not jobs they would prefer, however.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

Yep that should be the call every single time. Anything else leaves too much opportunity for missed assignments and defensive players getting into the backfield. It seems like coaches over think the play call sometimes. I would imagine the conversion percentage for sneaks is extremely high. So I totally agree with you.

I can think of a few recently that have driven me insane. TCU/KSU, the Steelers last game, this OU/FSU game just now, etc. Like... Why? I don't know if I've ever seen an assisted QB sneak get stopped, while I'm watching these other plays consistently go for losses.

And I said 4th down, but it can really be extended to any down when the distance is a half yard or less.

 

[BurghGuy68]

Shotgun on 4th and less than a yard kills me every time

 

[Upg bobcat]

I loved Whipple's favorite 4th and short call last year ... play action fake and throw it long to Addison. Worked for a TD every time. Not just a first down, but it was almost like guaranteed 6 points. I think we did it what, 4 or 5 times last year?

I know that was more of a call for 4th and 2 yards or 4th and a full yard, as opposed to 4th and inches. But still, it worked so well.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

I loved Whipple's favorite 4th and short call last year ... play action fake and throw it long to Addison. Worked for a TD every time. Not just a first down, but it was almost like guaranteed 6 points. I think we did it what, 4 or 5 times last year?

I know that was more of a call for 4th and 2 yards or 4th and a full yard, as opposed to 4th and inches. But still, it worked so well.

I think it finally got stopped against Wake Forest after working against Clemson, UVA, and maybe Syracuse or something.

But yeah... Like you said, that wasn't 4th and inches. And I'm probably more fine with using the situation to take a shot downfield than running a sweep.

 

[redbyrds]

I will qualify this by disclosing that I am not a physicist. However, am I insane, or does a QB sneak with two guys pushing him from behind not make more sense than, well, pretty much anything else? Like, it was formerly outlawed - that is how advantageous it is.

It makes me want to put my head through a wall when I continually see teams running sweeps, other off-tackle plays, handing the ball to a back who is 5-yards deep, etc. on 4th and a freaking foot.

Or in the shot gun with a side car

 

[Jakey_John]

I will qualify this by disclosing that I am not a physicist. However, am I insane, or does a QB sneak with two guys pushing him from behind not make more sense than, well, pretty much anything else? Like, it was formerly outlawed - that is how advantageous it is.

It makes me want to put my head through a wall when I continually see teams running sweeps, other off-tackle plays, handing the ball to a back who is 5-yards deep, etc. on 4th and a freaking foot.

To that end, why not have a guy like C’Bo Flemister practice taking snaps so it becomes more elementary? I completely agree. It’s silly to try to run something different.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

To that end, why not have a guy like C’Bo Flemister practice taking snaps so it becomes more elementary? I completely agree. It’s silly to try to run something different.

Good point. Might as well evolve to a point where you snap it to a RB under center and have two 300+ pounders pushing him, instead of a RB and a TE pushing a QB. I don't see how that could be stopped.

 

[ebonylover40]

I will qualify this by disclosing that I am not a physicist. However, am I insane, or does a QB sneak with two guys pushing him from behind not make more sense than, well, pretty much anything else? Like, it was formerly outlawed - that is how advantageous it is.

It makes me want to put my head through a wall when I continually see teams running sweeps, other off-tackle plays, handing the ball to a back who is 5-yards deep, etc. on 4th and a freaking foot.

I dont think it is legal in college anymore. I cant remember the game that they changed it, I think it was after a ND game though.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

I dont think it is legal in college anymore. I cant remember the game that they changed it, I think it was after a ND game though.

It's legal now. It didn't used to be. That ND game was against USC, where they missed the call (Bush pushed Leinart in), if I recall correctly. It shouldn't have been allowed back then.

 

[BFo8]

It drives me absolutely nuts when teams do the slow developing deep handoff stretch play on 3rd or 4th and short. Defense almost always run blitzes in these situations and more often than not it fails.

Also hate when teams run real quick up to the line in bunch formation in short yardage situations. Everyone knows what’s coming and they usually get stuffed.

 

[sonofabit]

To that end, why not have a guy like C’Bo Flemister practice taking snaps so it becomes more elementary? I completely agree. It’s silly to try to run something different.

Carter @ 240. Jacoby(ex.) in motion towards the snap. Unstoppable. Won’t be long before it’s outlawed again. They’re pushing well down the field now.

 

[pittdan77]

I played for teams that gave the QB the option to run the sneak any time the defense lined up with a lot of room between the A gaps.

I will say that the problem with a sneak when everyone knows it's coming is that the defense usually "burrows" under the OL-men. The interior guys will just shoot low and hard. That's why the sneak with Kenny vs LV wasn't a gimme.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

I played for teams that gave the QB the option to run the sneak any time the defense lined up with a lot of room between the A gaps.

I will say that the problem with a sneak when everyone knows it's coming is that the defense usually "burrows" under the OL-men. The interior guys will just shoot low and hard. That's why the sneak with Kenny vs LV wasn't a gimme.

But isn't it still quite possible to get a foot that way? I mean, I don't know all the specifics that go into every QB sneak scenario. It just seems way more effective than letting a defense sell out on the run and shoot the gaps while you're handing the ball off 10 feet behind the line of scrimmage.

I was watching a broadcast that mentioned the Eagles' head coach consulting with someone involved in rugby in the offseason to perfect their QB sneaking methods.

 

[pittdan77]

But isn't it still quite possible to get a foot that way? I mean, I don't know all the specifics that go into every QB sneak scenario. It just seems way more effective than letting a defense sell out on the run and shoot the gaps while you're handing the ball off 10 feet behind the line of scrimmage.

I was watching a broadcast that mentioned the Eagles' head coach consulting with someone involved in rugby in the offseason to perfect their QB sneaking methods.

Not saying you're wrong. I love the sneak. Nothing makes less sense to me than lining up in a shotgun on 4th and short. Well, maybe running play action on 3rd and long. I'd have to bet that it's still a high percentage play if you execute it properly. The problem is that nobody really coaches the play. There is just an expectation that you fire out and move someone and blockers end up getting penetration because there isn't anything clearer than, "block down". Then you get yelled at if the QB picks the wrong gap.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

Not saying you're wrong. I love the sneak. Nothing makes less sense to me than lining up in a shotgun on 4th and short. Well, maybe running play action on 3rd and long. I'd have to bet that it's still a high percentage play if you execute it properly. The problem is that nobody really coaches the play. There is just an expectation that you fire out and move someone and blockers end up getting penetration because there isn't anything clearer than, "block down". Then you get yelled at if the QB picks the wrong gap.

Oh I'm definitely no expert on the topic, and there might be something(s) I'm overlooking.

But I'd be sneaking way more - even in non-traditional situations. Like, if it's 2nd and 2 and a QB sees a gap, go for it.

 

[pittdan77]

Oh I'm definitely no expert on the topic, and there might be something(s) I'm overlooking.

But I'd be sneaking way more - even in non-traditional situations. Like, if it's 2nd and 2 and a QB sees a gap, go for it.

I think it's not done in the NFL because guys will try to kill a QB if they get any opportunity. Running a QB up inside would be a very easy way to do that. Think of how easily RB's get banged up so you typically only see it on fourth down. I also don't think you see too many defensive alignments that invite a QB to make that call at the upper levels of the game. You'd have to really catch a team cheating outside to do it and defensive players are just too athletic.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

AHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[BurghGuy68]

Shotgun on 4th and less than a yard kills me every time

Especially when we fumble

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

AHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[TheSpecialSauce]

I will qualify this by disclosing that I am not a physicist. However, am I insane, or does a QB sneak with two guys pushing him from behind not make more sense than, well, pretty much anything else? Like, it was formerly outlawed - that is how advantageous it is.

It makes me want to put my head through a wall when I continually see teams running sweeps, other off-tackle plays, handing the ball to a back who is 5-yards deep, etc. on 4th and a freaking foot.

Great Point - if the officials aren’t going to call a penalty for helping the runner, then you should run that play.

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

asking your QB to jump over the line, extending the football, on the goal line is such a bad idea. I know, easy to say after the ravens debacle but still, best case you break the line while 2 linebackers and a safety are coming at you with your QB 100000% vulnerable..

Like you guys said, go low or just run up the Center's backside with your RBs pushing you.. I remember Kordell doing it for the steelers, the Goal line leap and thinking how crazy it is to ask your qb to do it..

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

asking your QB to jump over the line, extending the football, on the goal line is such a bad idea. I know, easy to say after the ravens debacle but still, best case you break the line while 2 linebackers and a safety are coming at you with your QB 100000% vulnerable..

Like you guys said, go low or just run up the Center's backside with your RBs pushing you.. I remember Kordell doing it for the steelers, the Goal line leap and thinking how crazy it is to ask your qb to do it..

I didn't catch the Ravens play. How far did they have to go?

I bumped this thread after the Dolphins had it at 4th and a foot near midfield. Instead of running a sneak, they came out in shotgun. Play got absolutely blown up, but they had a delay of game on it. Didn't help, as they failed to convert on 4th and 6. Would things have played out differently had they snuck the ball on 4th and a foot? My guess is yes.

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

I didn't catch the Ravens play. How far did they have to go?

I bumped this thread after the Dolphins had it at 4th and a foot near midfield. Instead of running a sneak, they came out in shotgun. Play got absolutely blown up, but they had a delay of game on it. Didn't help, as they failed to convert on 4th and 6. Would things have played out differently had they snuck the ball on 4th and a foot? My guess is yes.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

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Yes, and you instruct your QB to not go high and reach but find a small hall and have a big guy behind him pushing.

 

[Panthers2015]

Always double down on 11. Always go for it on their side of the field

 

[pittdan77]

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That was a bit too far to think a sneak was going to work out of a bunch formation. Also puts the QB in a make or break situation or you're kicking another short FG. Although that might have been enough to win.

 

[Upg bobcat]

That was a bit too far to think a sneak was going to work out of a bunch formation. Also puts the QB in a make or break situation or you're kicking another short FG. Although that might have been enough to win.

I remember Lawrence ran a sneak by essentially going over the top on Saturday ... was it on the 2 point conversion after a penalty? Of course, they probably weren't in a tight formation, and Lawrence is so huge that there is a difference with him going over the top versus Hundley.

 

[sonofabit]

I don’t get why a guy like the Fridge isn’t pushing from behind. Guess the coaches want it to appear there are options available after the snap.

 

[The Ole Six-Fiver]

The Bengals ran a clever sneak in the game last night. Burrow was able to, well, burrow off left tackle

 

[h2p_5150]

I still can't believe Huntley thought he could jump over the top from 2 yards back with 12 guys between him and the goal line. One of the most bone headed decisions you will ever see.

 

[HailtoPitt]

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That RB for Baltimore gave up way to soon trying to chase him down.

 

[HailtoPitt]

Teams need to go back to the Fridge mode, and give it to big guy who can just plow into the OL.

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

i just dont understand why every team doesnt draft a guy like walter payton and just have him jump over everyone.