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A few thoughts this evening ...

DT_PITT

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** No sense pilling on the performance we watched today. It was as bad as we all thought it was.

** I'm no longer worried about just how bad things are (because that it is pretty evident), but the much more important question is where do we go from here?

** It's completely evident, at least to me, that the issue isn't that just that this team is young, but instead that we just aren't nearly talented enough. Or in other words, it's pretty clear in my mind that this group (even with the additions of Luther, Ellison, Kingsby and Golden) is not even an NIT team next year.

** Of course, they will get better as they grow, but to think they leap far from the very bottom of the ACC is a mistake.

** So, even if you don't agree with me that the talent we have is quite substandard, then aren't you at least somewhat concerned with the attitude and effort our team brought to the court today?

** In the off-season, most of us agreed that we wanted to see a team who played hard, with a chip on their shoulder, regardless of wins and losses. That wasn't what we watched today.

** Today, I watched a team more or less going through the motions. We were never really in this game. 39-20 on the boards? surrendering 47.3 FG?

** Still, I've never been one in the "coach must go" camp. In fact, most often I fight against this notion.

** Also, I don't think Stallings is incompetent, or at least not nearly to the extent that many of his detractors think that he is.

** Nonetheless, I have to think that if Stallings can't recruit at an NCAA tournament level, nor can he get the players he does have to play at their best, it's certainly worth questioning whether or not he should continue past this year.

** And regardless of what one thinks of Stallings, it's impossible to not make note of the fact the bottom has completely fallen out of the program in regards to fan interest. It's a fact that interest was greater in the days of the Eastern 8. This matters.

** Regardless of what I think, I'm now of the belief that it's far from a given that Stallings will be here past this season. If this comes to pass, I just don't know if it a good thing.

** I believe every program is much better off with coaching continuity. With as bad as things are, are we better off with a new coach if it means someone like Marcus or Shamiel leaves with a coaching change? I just don't know. Do we have to get even worse to get better. And if we get worse, is it even possible to get better?

** And if Pitt decides Stallings must go, it would seem that becomes the most unattractive P-5 head coaching job in the country.

** So ... obviously, I just don't know what to think at this point in regards to where we must go. But we are as bad off as I feared we might be at this point.

** Knowing that I'll be at every game the rest of this year and beyond, I'd surely like to know what I should look forward to.
 
** No sense pilling on the performance we watched today. It was as bad as we all thought it was.

** I'm no longer worried about just how bad things are (because that it is pretty evident), but the much more important question is where do we go from here?

** It's completely evident, at least to me, that the issue isn't that just that this team is young, but instead that we just aren't nearly talented enough. Or in other words, it's pretty clear in my mind that this group (even with the additions of Luther, Ellison, Kingsby and Golden) is not even an NIT team next year.

** Of course, they will get better as they grow, but to think they leap far from the very bottom of the ACC is a mistake.

** So, even if you don't agree with me that the talent we have is quite substandard, then aren't you at least somewhat concerned with the attitude and effort our team brought to the court today?

** In the off-season, most of us agreed that we wanted to see a team who played hard, with a chip on their shoulder, regardless of wins and losses. That wasn't what we watched today.

** Today, I watched a team more or less going through the motions. We were never really in this game. 39-20 on the boards? surrendering 47.3 FG?

** Still, I've never been one in the "coach must go" camp. In fact, most often I fight against this notion.

** Also, I don't think Stallings is incompetent, or at least not nearly to the extent that many of his detractors think that he is.

** Nonetheless, I have to think that if Stallings can't recruit at an NCAA tournament level, nor can he get the players he does have to play at their best, it's certainly worth questioning whether or not he should continue past this year.

** And regardless of what one thinks of Stallings, it's impossible to not make note of the fact the bottom has completely fallen out of the program in regards to fan interest. It's a fact that interest was greater in the days of the Eastern 8. This matters.

** Regardless of what I think, I'm now of the belief that it's far from a given Stallings that will be here past this season. If this comes to pass, I just don't know if it a good thing.

** I believe every program is better off of which coaching continuity. With as bad as things are, are we better off with a new coach if it means someone like Marcus or Shamiel leaves with a coaching change? I just don't know. Do we have to get even worse to get better. And if we get worse, is it even possible to get better?

** And if Pitt decides Stallings must go, it would seem that becomes the most unattractive P-5 head coaching job in the country.

** So ... obviously, I just don't know what to think at this point in regards to where we must go. But we are as bad off as I feared we might be at this point.

** Knowing that I'll be at every game the rest of this year and beyond, I'd surely liketo know what I should look forward to.

I thought Lammers graduated. When he was announced, I thought WTF, we have no chance. Not that he's great but he's a legitimate ACC 5. Add in Okogie, and I knew we didn't have a chance. I was surprised by their Nigerian 4 man. That guy, who I never heard of is better than any post player we've had since McGhee other than Adams, Zanna, and Young. When can we get guys like that.

As for the freshmen, I mean its possible these are say A10-level freshmen that may go 0-18, 2-16, 5-13. We'll find out
 
We are the most unattractive team now and it only gets worse with Stallings staying. I am confident that we would still have better coaching options available than Stallings.

I said it in another thread but right now Pitt is already looking into whether or not Stallings returns next year. They are evaluating the current situation now. They aren't waiting until next year to decide if they want to give KS more time or not. They are considering it now.
 
I thought Lammers graduated. When he was announced, I thought WTF, we have no chance. Not that he's great but he's a legitimate ACC 5. Add in Okogie, and I knew we didn't have a chance. I was surprised by their Nigerian 4 man. That guy, who I never heard of is better than any post player we've had since McGhee other than Adams, Zanna, and Young. When can we get guys like that.

As for the freshmen, I mean its possible these are say A10-level freshmen that may go 0-18, 2-16, 5-13. We'll find out
We make opponents look much better than they are
 
Your 2nd to last point is the rub. It seems this wasn’t a desirable job post Dixon. It’s far worse now. Money can overcome some obstacles but Pitt isn’t exactly known for serving up high dollar offers. Who would be even be a realistic target/definite improvement (and yes I realize there’s no way of knowing for sure).
 
Im not sure how you can justify keeping Stallings past this season. The 18 class doesnt appear to provide much help. I also dont see a well coached team How can a group of true frosh come out and look so uninspired.

From a revenue stand point, season ticket sales will be at an all time low next year. So while it will cost Pitt money to change, the net Profit/loss would be better spending the money than continue running the program into the ground

Yes to get a young up and coming coach to energize the program your going to have to over pay. I do think they can find someone who will recruit better and be an upgrade over stallings.
 
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DT, I never thought you'd be questioning whether Stallings should be here beyond this year. But when you see these kids just not trying and going through the motions, as you said, what can anyone think? They aren't a talented bunch and certainly not ACC caliber players. But when we always thought what they did have was grit and attitude and determination, and then we see the lack of those qualities and such poor play against a mediocre team, it's certainly time to start thinking of root causes. That points right where it should...at the coach.

My concern was hearing Stallings' incoherent ramblings in his interview with Hillgrove after the game. I still don't think I know what he was trying to say. Maybe he didn't know what he was trying to say. It would have been better if he just didn't show up for the post-game interview.

I don't know if it's time to pull the plug on Stallings. But I do know that if we think this year has a bunch of empty seats at The Pete, it will seem like a packed house when compared to next year. The crowd today, if you can call it a crowd, will be the norm next year. 1,500 avg. crowd per game if Stallings is still here.

Very sad state of affairs for Pitt hoops now. This is about as bad as I've seen it in over 55 years.
 
In fairness to Stallings-
He can’t win in these post games.
On one hand he has to sell hope with these freshmen to attempt to justify his job.

On they other- he knows they aren’t any good-but he can’t slit his own throat by telling the truth.
 
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In fairness to Stallings-
He can’t win in these post games.
On one hand he has to sell hope with these freshmen to attempt to justify his job.

On they other- he knows they aren’t any good-but he can’t slit his own throat by telling the truth.

I generally agree, but the tone today was different. In some of the games, even the early ones, Hillgrove and Groat would polish a turd as well as anyone. Even after the epic fail against Delaware State was mostly positive. Yet, today, Hillgrove seemed almost adversarial. He would lay out an awful line of stats and basically put KS on the spot and just let him die in the silence. It was very uncomfortable to hear.
 
I generally agree, but the tone today was different. In some of the games, even the early ones, Hillgrove and Groat would polish a turd as well as anyone. Even after the epic fail against Delaware State was mostly positive. Yet, today, Hillgrove seemed almost adversarial. He would lay out an awful line of stats and basically put KS on the spot and just let him die in the silence. It was very uncomfortable to hear.

After the game, I went straight to Stacked for Take Out Burgers and Beer. How could one not drink after this game?

Anyway, I'm glad I missed this interview because it does sound very uncomfortable.
 
After the game, I went straight to Stacked for Take Out Burgers and Beer. How could one not drink after this game?

Anyway, I'm glad I missed this interview because it does sound very uncomfortable.
DT,
Any idea why Slice was at the game today?
 
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Maybe you were expecting too much from this team . When they lost the only guy with any experience who was the undisputed leader of the team you might as well thrown in the towel . Every team they face is far more talented and none other than Duke have so many inexperienced freshman playing , but we’re not really talking about the same kind of freshman now are we . They just don’t have the pieces to compete.
Is KS the man to turn this around , well right now it’s not looking too good is it . Try to remember he wasn’t going to do it with this roster this yr . How much better these players get and who they bring in will determine this .
They’re going to lose and they’re going to look really bad at times this yr and probably next yr and a new coach isn’t going to change this unless he’d bring in a few Duke like freshman ...ya right .
Attendance isn’t going to get better until they start winning and it still will take a few seasons of winning to creat demand again . A new coach isn’t going to sell tickets either until he starts winning . More importantly whose going to pay for it and whose really wanting to come here ?
They NEED KS to get them back to an acceptable ACC level team before they move on from him . If he fails miserably it will just make the job that much less desirable and God knows who they’d be able to hire next . It could be a long time before winning exciting bb is at Pitt .
 
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I generally agree, but the tone today was different. In some of the games, even the early ones, Hillgrove and Groat would polish a turd as well as anyone. Even after the epic fail against Delaware State was mostly positive. Yet, today, Hillgrove seemed almost adversarial. He would lay out an awful line of stats and basically put KS on the spot and just let him die in the silence. It was very uncomfortable to hear.

Adversarial is a good word to use. I was thinking confrontational. It wasn't easy to listen to.
 
It's not that hard, not as hard as we make it out to be to turn this around.

It is just obvious the guy in charge is not the guy to do this. At this stage in his career, he is Ralph Williard, Jerry Dunn, Billy Hahn, former HC who is now that trusted Senior assistant, a bench coach who can teach a specific aspect (offense?) and not have to run the entire show.

As for Pitt, we were pretty damn bad as a program with Ben and company took over. This is not an impossible job.

The big question is, when do you pull that trigger? Because it will trigger more player movement and departures, but maybe it is best to rip open the bandage and the scab now while it is still fresh. Take the pain now, because it is already there.
 
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DT,
Any idea why Slice was at the game today?

From my understanding, Slice's purpose for being in Pittsburgh is for the Steelers game tomorrow. He and his fiancé/girlfriend drove in from NYC yesterday, and he was invited to sit courtside by someone who has seats there.
 
It is bad. I had hopes we would win and the pre-game discussion of how the Panthers circled this date and Stallings looked forward to a performance that should get a win, blah, blah, blah, certainly made me look forward to watching. Then suddenly it was 13-0. I turned it off and went to see a movie.

By this point I would have hoped for some evidence of learning but none is there.

Ah the Eastern Eight. How I long for us to be as good as that.
 
Maybe you were expecting too much from this team . When they lost the only guy with any experience who was the undisputed leader of the team you might as well thrown in the towel . Every team they face is far more talented and none other than Duke have so many inexperienced freshman playing , but we’re not really talking about the same kind of freshman now are we . They just don’t have the pieces to compete.
Is KS the man to turn this around , well right now it’s not looking too good is it . Try to remember he wasn’t going to do it with this roster this yr . How much better these players get and who they bring in will determine this .
They’re going to lose and they’re going to look really bad at times this yr and probably next yr and a new coach isn’t going to change this unless he’d bring in a few Duke like freshman ...ya right .
Attendance isn’t going to get better until they start winning and it still will take a few seasons of winning to creat demand again . A new coach isn’t going to sell tickets either until he starts winning . More importantly whose going to pay for it and whose really wanting to come here ?
They NEED KS to get them back to an acceptable ACC level team before they move on from him . If he fails miserably it will just make the job that much less desirable and God knows who they’d be able to hire next . It could be a long time before winning exciting bb is at Pitt .
Pitt admin expects more from what Stallings is currently providing and that's all that matters.
 
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We are the most unattractive job in America right now. No established coach with any pedigree at all is coming here to take over this program. I predicted that Stallings would be the scapegoat when he took this job. He only took it because he was going to be out of a job at Vandy, no one else wanted to touch it. Now that the bottom has completely fallen out, who in their right mind would want this job, even for a big raise? It is career suicide. All I know is, they took what they could get last time. If they fire Stallings now, before the program shows any signs of life, we should probably consider dropping down to NEC with Bobby Mo.
 
We are the most unattractive job in America right now. No established coach with any pedigree at all is coming here to take over this program. I predicted that Stallings would be the scapegoat when he took this job. He only took it because he was going to be out of a job at Vandy, no one else wanted to touch it. Now that the bottom has completely fallen out, who in their right mind would want this job, even for a big raise? It is career suicide. All I know is, they took what they could get last time. If they fire Stallings now, before the program shows any signs of life, we should probably consider dropping down to NEC with Bobby Mo.
This is so far incorrect. I have zero idea where you got your information. There was hardly a search done before offering the job to KS and there were better candidates that reached out to Pitt that we're interested in the job but Barnes had his mind made up he wanted Stallings.
 
Pitt admin expects more from what Stallings is currently providing and that's all that matters.

He's getting paid a boatload of money to build this program and win. He isn't doing that. Instead, he's incoherently rambling on with sentences that don't explain one thing while being incapable of coaching.

I'm sure he won't be gone after this year and 0-19 in the ACC. But if he isn't gone after next year after we start 0-10 in the ACC, then I don't know what to say other than we have some very incompetent administrators, including the AD and Chancellor.
 
We are the most unattractive job in America right now. No established coach with any pedigree at all is coming here to take over this program. I predicted that Stallings would be the scapegoat when he took this job. He only took it because he was going to be out of a job at Vandy, no one else wanted to touch it. Now that the bottom has completely fallen out, who in their right mind would want this job, even for a big raise? It is career suicide. All I know is, they took what they could get last time. If they fire Stallings now, before the program shows any signs of life, we should probably consider dropping down to NEC with Bobby Mo.

Not even close to the truth. The Pitt job is a very attractive job for a lot of obvious reasons. It was when we had the old Fitzgerald Field House and were searching for a coach then and got Howland. It is now. The problem was that Barnes handed the job to his buddy Stallings without doing a real search for a good coach. There were other much better options, but Barnes refused to explore them because he's an idiot.

We'll get a better coach by default, even if we fire this guy mid-season right now. There will be better coaches who express an interest if Lyke does her job. That is still a question mark.
 
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Maybe you were expecting too much from this team . When they lost the only guy with any experience who was the undisputed leader of the team you might as well thrown in the towel . Every team they face is far more talented and none other than Duke have so many inexperienced freshman playing , but we’re not really talking about the same kind of freshman now are we . They just don’t have the pieces to compete.
Is KS the man to turn this around , well right now it’s not looking too good is it . Try to remember he wasn’t going to do it with this roster this yr . How much better these players get and who they bring in will determine this .
They’re going to lose and they’re going to look really bad at times this yr and probably next yr and a new coach isn’t going to change this unless he’d bring in a few Duke like freshman ...ya right .
Attendance isn’t going to get better until they start winning and it still will take a few seasons of winning to creat demand again . A new coach isn’t going to sell tickets either until he starts winning . More importantly whose going to pay for it and whose really wanting to come here ?
They NEED KS to get them back to an acceptable ACC level team before they move on from him . If he fails miserably it will just make the job that much less desirable and God knows who they’d be able to hire next . It could be a long time before winning exciting bb is at Pitt .

"They NEED KS to get them back to an acceptable ACC level team before they move on from him . If he fails miserably it will just make the job that much less desirable and God knows who they’d be able to hire next."

IMO, 0-19 ACC (w/ACC Tourney loss) to finish 8-24 and no 4-star top 100 recruits coming for next season would (or should) demonstrate to the Pitt Athletic Administration that Stallings will never be able to get Pitt back to an acceptable ACC level team no matter how long he is kept.

I have no inside info, but if Stallings fails to reach a minimum of 10 wins and doesn't suddenly land a 4-5 star Center commit we should hope and expect he does not get a third year. When things are this bad, it is virtually impossible for them to get any worse, IMO.

Personally, I hope rockypanther is correct that the admin is already considering replacing him and (to that consideration) has already begun a preliminary behind the scenes coaching search so that we do not wait till Stallings is let go and then hire some consultant to conduct a search.
 
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We are the most unattractive job in America right now. No established coach with any pedigree at all is coming here to take over this program. I predicted that Stallings would be the scapegoat when he took this job. He only took it because he was going to be out of a job at Vandy, no one else wanted to touch it. Now that the bottom has completely fallen out, who in their right mind would want this job, even for a big raise? It is career suicide. All I know is, they took what they could get last time. If they fire Stallings now, before the program shows any signs of life, we should probably consider dropping down to NEC with Bobby Mo.
Lyke did not open the door for Dixon to leave and then hire Stallings. If she had done this, then your point would carry more weight. We are at rock bottom with a HC who is headed towards retirement. He said this would be his last job during an interview on the Fan when he was first hired.
 
Lyke did not open the door for Dixon to leave and then hire Stallings. If she had done this, then your point would carry more weight. We are at rock bottom with a HC who is headed towards retirement. He said this would be his last job during an interview on the Fan when he was first hired.
I still unfortunately think that even if Stallings goes winless in ACC play he still gets 1 more season. Only 1 more but with the buyout very high that will play a big part in keeping him.
 
"They NEED KS to get them back to an acceptable ACC level team before they move on from him . If he fails miserably it will just make the job that much less desirable and God knows who they’d be able to hire next."

IMO, 0-19 ACC (w/ACC Tourney loss) to finish 8-24 and no 4-star top 100 recruits coming for next season would (or should) demonstrate to the Pitt Athletic Administration that Stallings will never be able to get Pitt back to an acceptable ACC level team no matter how long he is kept.

I have no inside info, but if Stallings fails to reach a minimum of 10 wins and doesn't suddenly land a 4-5 star Center commit we should hope and expect he does not get a third year. When things are this bad, it is virtually impossible for them to get any worse, IMO.

Personally, I hope rockypanther is correct that the admin is already considering replacing him and (to that consideration) has already begun a preliminary behind the scenes coaching search so that we do not wait till Stallings is let go and then hire some consultant to conduct a search.
I am not wrong and will stand by that. It's not opinion. Discussion are happening.
 
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"They NEED KS to get them back to an acceptable ACC level team before they move on from him . If he fails miserably it will just make the job that much less desirable and God knows who they’d be able to hire next."

IMO, 0-19 ACC (w/ACC Tourney loss) to finish 8-24 and no 4-star top 100 recruits coming for next season would (or should) demonstrate to the Pitt Athletic Administration that Stallings will never be able to get Pitt back to an acceptable ACC level team no matter how long he is kept.

I have no inside info, but if Stallings fails to reach a minimum of 10 wins and doesn't suddenly land a 4-5 star Center commit we should hope and expect he does not get a third year. When things are this bad, it is virtually impossible for them to get any worse, IMO.

Personally, I hope rockypanther is correct that the admin is already considering replacing him and (to that consideration) has already begun a preliminary behind the scenes coaching search so that we do not wait till Stallings is let go and then hire some consultant to conduct a search.
I’d have no issues with Pitt pulling the plug after this season if they went out and made a great hire . I just don’t think their going to do that . I can’t imagine them spending the money necessary do you ?
 
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Lyke did not open the door for Dixon to leave and then hire Stallings. If she had done this, then your point would carry more weight. We are at rock bottom with a HC who is headed towards retirement. He said this would be his last job during an interview on the Fan when he was first hired.

Unless i have my timelines confused, Dixon was gone and Stallings on board well before Lyke was hired. So, clearly, this hoops mess is none of her doing. However, it is a mess she will have to try and fix. Because of the big monies involved she will need to address it with Gallagher and the Board of Trustees, and get their buy in for whatever she proposes.
 
I’d have no issues with Pitt pulling the plug after this season if they went out and made a great hire . I just don’t think their going to do that . I can’t imagine them spending the money necessary do you ?
I would rather take a chance with an unknown. I already know Stallings has taken us to rock bottom and has no chance of getting us to where we should be. Did you honestly think Ben Howland was a good hire at first?
 
I would rather take a chance with an unknown. I already know Stallings has taken us to rock bottom and has no chance of getting us to where we should be. Did you honestly think Ben Howland was a good hire at first?
It seemed like a questionable hire from Northern Arizona. Provided longest sustained success in history of Pitt basketball.
 
I would rather take a chance with an unknown. I already know Stallings has taken us to rock bottom and has no chance of getting us to where we should be. Did you honestly think Ben Howland was a good hire at first?
Ben who ? Pitt got lucky wth that hire and I have zero confidence in their decision making .
 
This is so far incorrect. I have zero idea where you got your information. There was hardly a search done before offering the job to KS and there were better candidates that reached out to Pitt that we're interested in the job but Barnes had his mind made up he wanted Stallings.
Perhaps you could enlighten us with some of those names of coaches who reached out to Pitt and were interested in the job. Since you know it all, I would love to hear some of the names. You are blowing smoke as usual. No one, and I reapeat, no one wanted to follow Dixon, our most successful coach ever for two reasons.

1) Everyone knew they would be replacing a Pitt legend.

2) the most important reason, is that Dixon had the program set up for failure, by recruiting at just such an awful level for a coach who had such a recent run of unprecedented success at Pitt.

This is why I said Stallings would be a scapegoat. Anyone who signed on the dotted line was going to be the scapegoat for Dixon's program imploding recruiting. It could have been anyone, just so happened that we wound up with KS.

In another post, I mentioned this will be a long and painful rebuild. Coaches around the country know what happened here. They may be discussing candidates to replace KS, but I am telling you now, You are going to be crying again, when you see who he is replaced by.
 
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Perhaps you could enlighten us with some of those names of coaches who reached out to Pitt and were interested in the job. Since you know it all, I would love to hear some of the names. You are blowing smoke as usual. No one, and I reapeat, no one wanted to follow Dixon, our most successful coach ever for two reasons.

1) Everyone knew they would be replacing a Pitt legend.

2) the most important reason, is that Dixon had the program set up for failure, by recruiting at just such an awful level for a coach who had such a recent run of unprecedented success at Pitt.

This is why I said Stallings would be a scapegoat. Anyone who signed on the dotted line was going to be the scapegoat for Dixon's program imploding recruiting. It could have been anyone, just so happened that we wound up with KS.

In another post, I mentioned this will be a long and painful rebuild. Coaches around the country know what happened here. They may be discussing candidates to replace KS, but I am telling you now, You are going to be crying again, when you see who he is replaced by.
Will Wade, Kevin Keates, Matt Painter. There you go.
 
Perhaps you could enlighten us with some of those names of coaches who reached out to Pitt and were interested in the job. Since you know it all, I would love to hear some of the names. You are blowing smoke as usual. No one, and I reapeat, no one wanted to follow Dixon, our most successful coach ever for two reasons.

1) Everyone knew they would be replacing a Pitt legend.

2) the most important reason, is that Dixon had the program set up for failure, by recruiting at just such an awful level for a coach who had such a recent run of unprecedented success at Pitt.

This is why I said Stallings would be a scapegoat. Anyone who signed on the dotted line was going to be the scapegoat for Dixon's program imploding recruiting. It could have been anyone, just so happened that we wound up with KS.

In another post, I mentioned this will be a long and painful rebuild. Coaches around the country know what happened here. They may be discussing candidates to replace KS, but I am telling you now, You are going to be crying again, when you see who he is replaced by.
I think most of us Pitt fans are already crying now.
 
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