ACC Talent 2021-22

[Chescat]

AS I see it, the level of
talent in the ACC is
down. Yes, Duke, UVA,
NC, Fla St,, should be at
or near the top of the
league. VA Tech, an
improved ND, and a few
others should all be
somewhere in the middle.

IMO the big difference is
some of the lousy teams
who will be at or near the
bottom. Obviously BC,
along with WF and Pitt
are seen as cellar dwellers.
What I also see are a few
teams who have also
lost a lot through transfers,
but haven't recruited as
well as they've lost. Cuse,
Miami, GT, will all IMO be
worse.

Now, the question is how
well will we compete with
this group I called "lousy."
So before I get accused of
being overly optimistic,
let me be clear. Bad, or
average talent as we are,
we should be able to
compete with that group.
Not only that we can win
more than the "three" that
seem to be the opinion of
many on here. We ain't good,
but neither are several other
ACC teams. Let's see what
Capel does with this.

 

[TheLogicalTake]

I keep saying that the days of the ACC routinely being the best or 2nd best conference in the country are done. I say this not to be alarmist because P5 is always going to be a great advantage, but part of our logic has been “Well, we can always sell the ACC even when we’re bad” and that’s just not a slam dunk as it may have been at one time.

The ACC, in my mind, has fallen behind both the SEC and B10 and that gap might get even bigger with the two marquee programs going through a transition from a HOF Coach. It’s easy to say “Well, it’s Duke” or “UNC gets kids no matter what” but the fall off when a HOF Coach leaves, even for programs of that stature, is significant. If those two aren’t slam dunk top 10 programs every year, the conference just doesn’t have the same bite as it used to.

 

[73CAV]

The ACC, in my mind, has fallen behind both the SEC and B10 and that gap might get even bigger with the two marquee programs going through a transition from a HOF Coach. It’s easy to say “Well, it’s Duke” or “UNC gets kids no matter what” but the fall off when a HOF Coach leaves, even for programs of that stature, is significant. If those two aren’t slam dunk top 10 programs every year, the conference just doesn’t have the same bite as it used to.

Actually, the drop isn't as significant as you might think when a HOF coach resigns from a "Blue Blood" program. Admittedly, there aren't a lot of examples simply because there have been only so many HOF coaches resigning from such schools. However, when Adolf Rupp retired after 40 plus years at Kentucky, Joe B. Hall took over. He continued to win something near 75% of the games including an NCAA title in 1978 and an NIT title when it still meant something. When Dean Smith retired after almost 40 years at UNC, Bill Guthridge was promoted. He continued to win at a high level and took Carolina to two Final Fours in his three years. When Gene Bartow replaced John Wooden, he proceeded to win a National Championship, and when he left after a couple of seasons, Gary Cunningham led UCLA to a winning percentage north of 80%. History would suggest that the fall-off following the resignation of a HOF coach isn't necessarily that great. As a side note, it's worth remembering that Hall, Guthridge, and Cunningham were all assistants under those HOF coaches.

I will edit to add that I think you're right about less prestigious programs. Replacing a HOF coach at a school which hasn't had the rich history of success of a Duke, a Kentucky, or a UNC and maintaining that success can be problematic.

 

[Pittisit4me]

AS I see it, the level of
talent in the ACC is
down. Yes, Duke, UVA,
NC, Fla St,, should be at
or near the top of the
league. VA Tech, an
improved ND, and a few
others should all be
somewhere in the middle.

IMO the big difference is
some of the lousy teams
who will be at or near the
bottom. Obviously BC,
along with WF and Pitt
are seen as cellar dwellers.
What I also see are a few
teams who have also
lost a lot through transfers,
but haven't recruited as
well as they've lost. Cuse,
Miami, GT, will all IMO be
worse.

Now, the question is how
well will we compete with
this group I called "lousy."
So before I get accused of
being overly optimistic,
let me be clear. Bad, or
average talent as we are,
we should be able to
compete with that group.
Not only that we can win
more than the "three" that
seem to be the opinion of
many on here. We ain't good,
but neither are several other
ACC teams. Let's see what
Capel does with this.

I am a fan of optimism. I tend to agree with your assessment. My only question is can Capel get a team to play together and for one another such that they improve throughout the year???

There is enough talent here to compete with most teams in this league. Coaching and team chemistry can make a huge difference when talent levels are similar. I want to see Capel deliver a full year of progress to this program. It would be a first considering the way we have finished out the previous seasons. I have had enough of egos getting in the way of the team's progress. The first step is to get these kids to realize the good of the team must be put first.

If Capel can do this, then the foundation will finally be laid for a solid future. I still think he can recruit here if he could just get things turned in the right direction. He is running out of time to right the ship. This is a big year for him, and he better be able to show he can get the kids to play as a team. We can't have our best players transferring out every year because they are not happy.

 

[Drew1208]

AS I see it, the level of
talent in the ACC is
down. Yes, Duke, UVA,
NC, Fla St,, should be at
or near the top of the
league. VA Tech, an
improved ND, and a few
others should all be
somewhere in the middle.

IMO the big difference is
some of the lousy teams
who will be at or near the
bottom. Obviously BC,
along with WF and Pitt
are seen as cellar dwellers.
What I also see are a few
teams who have also
lost a lot through transfers,
but haven't recruited as
well as they've lost. Cuse,
Miami, GT, will all IMO be
worse.

Now, the question is how
well will we compete with
this group I called "lousy."
So before I get accused of
being overly optimistic,
let me be clear. Bad, or
average talent as we are,
we should be able to
compete with that group.
Not only that we can win
more than the "three" that
seem to be the opinion of
many on here. We ain't good,
but neither are several other
ACC teams. Let's see what
Capel does with this.

Clemson should be worse too. The whole mid to bottom will be beatable on any given night

 

[Chescat]

Clemson should be worse too. The whole mid to bottom will be beatable on any given night

Yeah I agree. I was
going to put Clemson
in my list of "lousy"
ACC teams. Somehow
they always seem to
have "men" playing
against boys, They're
nothing special this year.

I think we also agree
that the bottom of the
league is more than Pitt,
BC, and WF.

 

[Drew1208]

Yeah I agree. I was
going to put Clemson
in my list of "lousy"
ACC teams. Somehow
they always seem to
have "men" playing
against boys, They're
nothing special this year.

I think we also agree
that the bottom of the
league is more than Pitt,
BC, and WF.

Even a team like Louisville is going to be mid pack imo.
I think the biggest jump well see is Notre Dame and the sharpest fall will be Gtech.

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

Even a team like Louisville is going to be mid pack imo.
I think the biggest jump well see is Notre Dame and the sharpest fall will be Gtech.

I think GT will be better than you think. They got a great class and I think Pastner is a really underrated coach. If you remember, I was really high on them last year and imo proven correct.

 

[Drew1208]

I think GT will be better than you think. They got a great class and I think Pastner is a really underrated coach. If you remember, I was really high on them last year and imo proven correct.

I thought you were totally correct last year.
I think he'll be good again, eventually
I just think they'll need time losing their 2 best and most seasoned players. I see them has middle to back end this year.
I like Paster, dude is cool.

 

[Chescat]

You don't lose a PG like
Alvarado and a Center
like Wright without
feeling the loss, big
time. Those two were
great. Take them away
and there's a big falloff
IMO. I agree about Pastner,
a really good coach, but
GT, as I see em is not
strong. What they've
brought in is nowhere
near what they lost.
Sound familiar?....LOL

 

[Chescat]

I started this thread
not only to discuss
how much the ACC has
fallen, but also to
show there's now
several weak teams
near the bottom. I
don't believe some
of those weak teams
are all that much better
if that, than Pitt. We
ain't that good, that's
for sure, but neither
are those teams that
are mentioned throughout
this thread. We're gonna
struggle in the league, but
we sure as hell can win
more than three against
those teams.
OK coach, show us you
can coach.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

ACC Basketball is not even in the same stratosphere of the OG Big East. It shouldn't be difficult at all to get to the middle in this league. 3 good players and a coach and your're right there in the middle.

 

[73CAV]

Since when did GT lose Alvarado?

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

Since when did GT lose Alvarado?

Yeah Alvarado has the option to come back. They could be really good if he does.

 

[Drew1208]

Yeah Alvarado has the option to come back. They could be really good if he does.

Oh yeah just checked that....... that changes everything if he does

 

[Drew1208]

Oh yeah just checked that....... that changes everything if he does

Although I'd imagine he really wants to make money for his child.

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

Although I'd imagine he really wants to make money for his child.

So he’s transferring to LSU?

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

So he’s transferring to LSU?

Haaaaaaaay-Oh!

 

[Drew1208]

So he’s transferring to LSU?

Nice one!

 

[joeydavid]

I think GT will be better than you think. They got a great class and I think Pastner is a really underrated coach. If you remember, I was really high on them last year and imo proven correct.

"Great class" is code for another NCAA investigation of Josh coming.

 

[Chescat]

If Alvarado returns, GT is
obviously better than
without him. However,
the absence of Wright
who was a monster on
the inside will not be
replaced by any of the
new recruits/transfers.
How good was he?.....
Oh not much, just the
ACC PLAYER OF THE
YEAR.

Bottom line, they will
not be as good as last
year. If they're both
gone, they drop big
time. They BOTH were
all ACC (Wright 1st team,
Alvarado 2nd team and
def. payer of the year)

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

"Great class" is code for another NCAA investigation of Josh coming.

View embedded media

Who cares? They have 2 4 stars and a 3 star coming in. What’s gonna happen? They’re gonna miss one ncaa tournament that they wouldn’t make anyways or is cancelled by a pandemic?

Considering they had a top 4 finish, an ACc tournament title and an ncaa appearance it was worth it. But hey, we’ll go down as the best ncaa compliers

 

[Pittisit4me]

Who cares? They have 2 4 stars and a 3 star coming in. What’s gonna happen? They’re gonna miss one ncaa tournament that they wouldn’t make anyways or is cancelled by a pandemic?

Considering they had a top 4 finish, an ACc tournament title and an ncaa appearance it was worth it. But hey, we’ll go down as the best ncaa compliers

We certainly can comply! We have the market cornered on compliance!

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

And Michael Devoe will he back so 15 PPG that was gonna leave is coming back. GT is gonna be good again.

 

[WannyandWalt]

Who cares? They have 2 4 stars and a 3 star coming in. What’s gonna happen? They’re gonna miss one ncaa tournament that they wouldn’t make anyways or is cancelled by a pandemic?

Considering they had a top 4 finish, an ACc tournament title and an ncaa appearance it was worth it. But hey, we’ll go down as the best ncaa compliers

BINGO! YIPPY

 

[Chescat]

And Michael Devoe will he back so 15 PPG that was gonna leave is coming back. GT is gonna be good again.

Maybe. I like the coach, but
Alvarado and Wright are
major losses. There will be
a drop off. The only issue
here is.....how much.

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

Maybe. I like the coach, but
Alvarado and Wright are
major losses. There will be
a drop off. The only issue
here is.....how much.

Alvarado is going to end up returning. They have 3 big talented guards/forwards coming in. Between Saba, Howard and Meka they have talented and highly rated players up front. They’re gonna be really good and will end up top 5 in the ACC unless something insane happens to them.

 

[Chescat]

Alvarado is going to end up returning. They have 3 big talented guards/forwards coming in. Between Saba, Howard and Meka they have talented and highly rated players up front. They’re gonna be really good and will end up top 5 in the ACC unless something insane happens to them.

Good re cap. Alvarado
coming or going makes
a big difference.

 

[thebadby2]

ACC Basketball is not even in the same stratosphere of the OG Big East. It shouldn't be difficult at all to get to the middle in this league. 3 good players and a coach and your're right there in the middle.

ACC basketball is not in the same stratosphere as the OG ACC basketball of the BE glory days era, for that matter. The old ACC was a basketball monster, and most years was a better basketball league than the BE. That was back in the days when teams like GT, NCSU, UVA, Maryland and Wake were loaded, and UNC and Duke were always ridiculously loaded.

 

[thebadby2]

"Great class" is code for another NCAA investigation of Josh coming.

View embedded media

Are you suggesting that a coach who was mentored primarily by Lute Olson and John Calipari might not be on the up and up?

For shame.

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

Yeah Alvarado has the option to come back. They could be really good if he does.

And he’s gone. Just updating the thread.

changes their outlook quite a bit, although I am still bullish on them overall going into the season as a tournament team.

 

[Chescat]

They lost their two best
who were great ACC players.
Your "bullish" prediction is
a real reach IMO. However,
given a very good coach,
plus decent recruits...maybe.
IMO it's still a reach, let's see
what happens.

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

They lost their two best
who were great ACC players.
Your "bullish" prediction is
a real reach IMO. However,
given a very good coach,
plus decent recruits...maybe.
IMO it's still a reach, let's see
what happens.

I was the only one who predicted a top 4 finish for them last year…

 

[Drew1208]

I was the only one who predicted a top 4 finish for them last year…

They'll be lucky to be on the bubble this year.

 

[Chescat]

I was the only one who predicted a top 4 finish for them last year…

Well that was a good pick
on your part. I don't think
many agreed with you. As
for this year I for one don't
agree given what they've
lost. As I said above, I like
the coach, and he's recruited
well. However losing Wright
All League, and ACC MVP,
along with Alvarado, all league
and DPlayer of the year, are
major losses.

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

Well that was a good pick
on your part. I don't think
many agreed with you. As
for this year I for one don't
agree given what they've
lost. As I said above, I like
the coach, and he's recruited
well. However losing Wright
All League, and ACC MVP,
along with Alvarado, all league
and DPlayer of the year, are
major losses.

They'll be lucky to be on the bubble this year.

I disagree, the ACC sucks and they have enough talent returning and recruited to be the leader of the second tier of teams again.

 

[Chescat]

I was the only one who predicted a top 4 finish for them last year…

Alvarado is going to end up returning.

You also predicted this.

 

[Drew1208]

I disagree, the ACC sucks and they have enough talent returning and recruited to be the leader of the second tier of teams again.

Well no more need to discuss my dude, we know where we stand here, we'll check back to this in March.

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

You also predicted this.

Well no more need to discuss my dude, we know where we stand here, we'll check back to this in March.

Surprising to be sure.

and Yes drew, you will take my takes as gospel and I’ll follow your hilarious takes on Twitter and wonder about your sanity.

 

[thebadby2]

I am a fan of optimism. I tend to agree with your assessment. My only question is can Capel get a team to play together and for one another such that they improve throughout the year???

There is enough talent here to compete with most teams in this league. Coaching and team chemistry can make a huge difference when talent levels are similar. I want to see Capel deliver a full year of progress to this program. It would be a first considering the way we have finished out the previous seasons. I have had enough of egos getting in the way of the team's progress. The first step is to get these kids to realize the good of the team must be put first.

If Capel can do this, then the foundation will finally be laid for a solid future. I still think he can recruit here if he could just get things turned in the right direction. He is running out of time to right the ship. This is a big year for him, and he better be able to show he can get the kids to play as a team. We can't have our best players transferring out every year because they are not happy.

There is enough talent here to compete with most teams in this league.

You don’t actually believe that, do you? If you changed “most” to “a few” I’d have no quarrel. this is not a P5 roster. It’s basically bringing a butter knife to a gunfight.