After Pitt beat St. Louis they received a grand total of ZERO VOTES in both polls

[PittPoker]

I found that funny mainly because in last week's AP poll St. Louis received 6 votes before playing Pitt. So I guess I'm not understanding the 6 voters because Pitt was undefeated and beat St. Louis on a neutral court, is now 6-0, but decided that Pitt's win against them was meaningless lol.

I think because Pitt was so putrid last season it has stayed in the voter's heads coming into this season, most don't follow Pitt at all and think we're gonna be just as awful.

Little do they know this team is gonna surprise many.

 

[PittPanthers90]

Don't worry. The NCAA rankings system has us at #23

 

[hoopsguy72]

I found that funny mainly because in last week's AP poll St. Louis received 6 votes before playing Pitt. So I guess I'm not understanding the 6 voters because Pitt was undefeated and beat St. Louis on a neutral court, is now 6-0, but decided that Pitt's win against them was meaningless lol.

I think because Pitt was so putrid last season it has stayed in the voter's heads coming into this season, most don't follow Pitt at all and think we're gonna be just as awful.

Little do they know this team is gonna surprise many.

You actually believe we deserve a top 25 vote? From anyone?

 

[PittPoker]

You actually believe we deserve a top 25 vote? From anyone?

Yes

 

[PittPoker]

You actually believe we deserve a top 25 vote? From anyone?

Here's my point, if 6 AP voters thought St. Louis should be in the top 25 before facing Pitt right? And Pitt beat them to remain undefeated. Why did not 1 of these people vote for Pitt?

 

[levance2]

Yes

Well, you are wrong.

 

[below0w]

Here's my point, if 6 AP voters thought St. Louis should be in the top 25 before facing Pitt right? And Pitt beat them to remain undefeated. Why did not 1 of these people vote for Pitt?

Rankings so early in the season are meaningless and perpetually in flux. Hypothetically, the voters may have felt like St. Louis was a top 25 team, but then re-evaluated their stance after seeing them lose to Pitt. That doesn't mean that they'd logically have to feel as if Pitt is a top 25 team. After the game, a reasonable person can conclude that neither team belongs in the top 25.

 

[DT_PITT]

Here's my point, if 6 AP voters thought St. Louis should be in the top 25 before facing Pitt right? And Pitt beat them to remain undefeated. Why did not 1 of these people vote for Pitt?

Poker ... we are still quite a way from the top 25. Heck, we aren’t really in the top 75 yet.

If we can beat Iowa, then some folks will start paying attention as they should.

 

[PittPoker]

Poker ... we are still quite a way from the top 25. Heck, we aren’t really in the top 75 yet.

If we can beat Iowa, then some folks will start paying attention as they should.

Well DT, if I believe they will beat Iowa which I mentioned a few days ago, then it is only natural that I would think they should be considered or have votes. They'll be noticed nationally on Tuesday when Pitt shocks Iowa.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Here's my point, if 6 AP voters thought St. Louis should be in the top 25 before facing Pitt right? And Pitt beat them to remain undefeated. Why did not 1 of these people vote for Pitt?

They follow basketball and at least kinda understand the game?

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

By the way, it should also be pointed out that 6 AP voters DID NOT think that St. Louis should be in the top 25 before facing Pitt. TWO of them did. One who ranked St. Louis 21st and the other of whom ranked St. Louis 25th.

 

[PittPoker]

They follow basketball and at least kinda understand the game?

Okay well those same people who followed the game voted for St. Louis a week prior. So your point is? I guess they didn't understand it that well did they, or they never would have voted for St. Louis right? I mean these geniuses should have realized how bad Pitt is. 6 votes for St. Louis, Pitt beats them, Pitt with still 0 votes.

 

[ScrantonicityIII]

Rankings so early in the season are meaningless and perpetually in flux. Hypothetically, the voters may have felt like St. Louis was a top 25 team, but then re-evaluated their stance after seeing them lose to Pitt. That doesn't mean that they'd logically have to feel as if Pitt is a top 25 team. After the game, a reasonable person can conclude that neither team belongs in the top 25.

this is the most reasonable response.

 

[below0w]

Okay well those same people who followed the game voted for St. Louis a week prior. So your point is? I guess they didn't understand it that well did they, or they never would have voted for St. Louis right? I mean these geniuses should have realized how bad Pitt is. 6 votes for St. Louis, Pitt beats them, Pitt with still 0 votes.

What exactly are you not understanding? It's very simple.

Let's say that a voter chose St. Louis as his #25 team before they played Pitt. In that voter's mind, Pitt was the #75 team. The game is played and Pitt wins, which suggests that he overrated St. Louis and underrated Pitt. There's no reason to think that he misestimated each team's relative position equally, though. Maybe he now thinks St. Louis is the #35 team in the country, but he'd be insane to move Pitt up 50 spots because of a sample size of 6 games. Maybe you could get that kind of boost if you knock off a top 5 team, but we didn't do anything of the sort.

St. Louis was a great win for the program, but they also appear to be a talented team that hasn't come close to putting it together yet. It's a great win to us because we're overachieving expectations so far, but a national writer isn't going to have that bias. Pitt have made significant progress and are clearly trending in the right direction, but there's no reason to stick us in the top 25 yet. Beat Iowa and then we'll have a real argument.

 

[PittPoker]

What exactly are you not understanding? It's very simple.

Let's say that a voter chose St. Louis as his #25 team before they played Pitt. In that voter's mind, Pitt was the #75 team. The game is played and Pitt wins, which suggests that he overrated St. Louis and underrated Pitt. There's no reason to think that he misestimated each team's relative position equally, though. Maybe he now thinks St. Louis is the #35 team in the country, but he'd be insane to move Pitt up 50 spots because of a sample size of 6 games. Maybe you could get that kind of boost if you knock off a top 5 team, but we didn't do anything of the sort.

St. Louis was a great win for the program, but they also appear to be a talented team that hasn't come close to putting it together yet. It's a great win to us because we're overachieving expectations so far, but a national writer isn't going to have that bias. Pitt have made significant progress and are clearly trending in the right direction, but there's no reason to stick us in the top 25 yet. Beat Iowa and then we'll have a real argument.

Okay so let me ask you this. If Pitt beats Iowa do we vault into the top 25 or do we only receive a handful of votes?

 

[DC_Area_Panther]

What exactly are you not understanding? It's very simple.

Let's say that a voter chose St. Louis as his #25 team before they played Pitt. In that voter's mind, Pitt was the #75 team. The game is played and Pitt wins, which suggests that he overrated St. Louis and underrated Pitt. There's no reason to think that he misestimated each team's relative position equally, though. Maybe he now thinks St. Louis is the #35 team in the country, but he'd be insane to move Pitt up 50 spots because of a sample size of 6 games. Maybe you could get that kind of boost if you knock off a top 5 team, but we didn't do anything of the sort.

St. Louis was a great win for the program, but they also appear to be a talented team that hasn't come close to putting it together yet. It's a great win to us because we're overachieving expectations so far, but a national writer isn't going to have that bias. Pitt have made significant progress and are clearly trending in the right direction, but there's no reason to stick us in the top 25 yet. Beat Iowa and then we'll have a real argument.

Sagarin's recent games rating says Pitt is #73 and Iowa #13. I believe that is about right. We are a 12.5 point underdog (slightly more than the 12.15 point underdog Sagarin's "recent games" rating predicts us to lose by) and that is probably fair. To win we will have to shoot a lights out % on 3-pointers and Iowa have a totally off night. Nothing is impossible but we are really at least 10-12 points weaker than any P5 team with quality big men and the corresponding strong inside game.

 

[levance2]

Okay so let me ask you this. If Pitt beats Iowa do we vault into the top 25 or do we only receive a handful of votes?

If Pitt beats Iowa and loses to Duquesne, do you still rank them in the top-20?

 

[buckage]

Well DT, if I believe they will beat Iowa which I mentioned a few days ago, then it is only natural that I would think they should be considered or have votes. They'll be noticed nationally on Tuesday when Pitt shocks Iowa.

I hope you're right, but Iowa is a brutal match up for us. Need to shoot lights out and get their 3 bigs in foul trouble.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

The idea that Pitt is a 6/7 NCAAT seed is ridiculous. If they win the next 4, I wouldn't put them in the Top 25 yet

 

[PittPoker]

The idea that Pitt is a 6/7 NCAAT seed is ridiculous. If they win the next 4, I wouldn't put them in the Top 25 yet

That's also ridiculous. When they beat Iowa tomorrow and Duquesne a few days later they should be ranked.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

What exactly are you not understanding? It's very simple.

You'd think so, but apparently not.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

That's also ridiculous. When they beat Iowa tomorrow and Duquesne a few days later they should be ranked.

If we win those two games there is approximately a zero percent chance that we will be ranked.

 

[UPitt '89]

If we win those two games there is approximately a zero percent chance that we will be ranked.

But Pitt will be in the "others receiving votes" if they beat Iowa on the road and then Duquesne on neutral.

But the odds of them beating Iowa are about 8%. So this is merely an academic discussion.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

But Pitt will be in the "others receiving votes" if they beat Iowa on the road and then Duquesne on neutral.

Most likely, yes.

At that point a couple points in the polls might even be justifiable.

 

[PittPoker]

But Pitt will be in the "others receiving votes" if they beat Iowa on the road and then Duquesne on neutral.

But the odds of them beating Iowa are about 8%. So this is merely an academic discussion.

St Louis was a 72% favorite to beat us according to FPI so who knows.

 

[cabe23]

St Louis was a 72% favorite to beat us according to FPI so who knows.

Yeah but FPI is terrible. Sagarin and Pomeroy had SLU by about as much as Vegas, between 4 and 6.

 

[rockypanther]

No. Voters will see an upset against Iowa and the Dukes aren't a top team. We still wouldn't and shouldn't be ranked. If we are 13-0 then yes we should maybe be ranked.

 

[Gep Dawg]

If we win in Iowa’s floor and then not screw it up by losing to Duquesne we would be ranked for sure. Are you guys Crazy? 8-0 with a win at a Top 15 team is as impressive as any team outside the top 5.

 

[DC_Area_Panther]

Okay well those same people who followed the game voted for St. Louis a week prior. So your point is? I guess they didn't understand it that well did they, or they never would have voted for St. Louis right? I mean these geniuses should have realized how bad Pitt is. 6 votes for St. Louis, Pitt beats them, Pitt with still 0 votes.

Anyone who thought St. Louis was a top 25 team, even if it was before the Pitt game, has a very poor understanding of college basketball team strengths.

Of course there are two kinds of ratings. One kind is the unscientific perception type and the other themore scientific approach. St. Louis could only have been ranked based on the first type based on the reasoning that if they were favored to win the A10 that would translate perception wise to being at the bottom end of the top 25. The more scientific and realistic view is that they at best should be a team roughly in the #75 to #100 range based on their performance over their games prior to the Pitt game and little changed by that loss.

 

[ScrantonicityIII]

If we win in Iowa’s floor and then not screw it up by losing to Duquesne we would be ranked for sure. Are you guys Crazy? 8-0 with a win at a Top 15 team is as impressive as any team outside the top 5.

We were 0-19 in conference last season. That is beyond stink. That is a lot to overcome in voters minds. Really, we have done it to ourselves.

 

[Chescat]

Anyone who thought St. Louis was a top 25 team, even if it was before the Pitt game, has a very poor understanding of college basketball team strengths.

Of course there are two kinds of ratings. One kind is the unscientific perception type and the other themore scientific approach. St. Louis could only have been ranked based on the first type based on the reasoning that if they were favored to win the A10 that would translate perception wise to being at the bottom end of the top 25. The more scientific and realistic view is that they at best should be a team roughly in the #75 to #100 range based on their performance over their games prior to the Pitt game and little changed by that loss.

Can't argue with your explanation of the "scientific view." However I had a post
on here awhile back where I predicted that STL was not the best in the A-10. In
fact I listed Davidson first, and maybe one or two others ahead of them. Not
using any "scientific data", I knew their coach wasn't the strongest, and they
were coming off an underachieving season the year before. I also knew
some of their strength lies in their transfers, and that would it would take
time to jell. I also felt they were somewhat undisciplined. After watching their
loss to us, I didn't see anything that changed my pre game assessment of them.
I'm agreeing with your assessment of the scientific view (Sagarin). How about
you? Do you see anything in the more subjective view which looks at some
other things besides #r's, %'s , and data etc?

 

[levance2]

However, no mention of Niagara. They've been winning,
and only have lost at Loyola of Chicago. IMO, they're better than all of
the teams we've played with STL being the exception. I did not consult Sagarin or any other rating service for this viewpoint.

They also lost to Grambling and SFNY. So no, they are not any good.

 

[JS School]

I have a hard time believing the OP is serious.

A voter realizing that they were wrong about St. Louis being a top 25 team would not necessarily come to the conclusion that Pitt is one. That's two mutually exclusive ideas.

Unless they now were absolutely certain that St. Louis was the 26th best team in the country, I guess.

 

[Chescat]

They also lost to Grambling and SFNY. So no, they are not any good.

I deleted the post after re reading Niagara's scores, but they'll probably
still give us a challenge. Thanks Levance.

 

[Pitt2006]

St. Louis beat Seton Hall who just beat Miami. Anything can happen and I do think this team will surprise us. Likely not Top 25 this year, but there is a chance tonight to show the nation we are a new team this year with the new additions. Even when the losses come this year, at least these guys are enjoyable to watch. They pass that "eye-test" to me.