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Amusing thread from last year's OOC

That is very entertaining! Wait until this year when we go into the ACC part of our schedule and we've only won maybe 6 games total. And with an ACC schedule that looks like we might be lucky to win another 1 or 2, that's not good.
 
It's not my grave. I don't live or die on Pitt sports. And my expectations with Pitt basketball until we get a real coach are single digit wins total every year. Those who expect better than that, as evidenced by that thread from last year, will be disappointed. No players, no coach. Expectations have to remain very low.

But I'll be at most games when I can, depending on my travel schedule. No stress, enjoy the time to watch some basketball and some excellent opponents, players and coaches play and coach the game as we used to. That's what I'm looking forward to.
 
I get the appeal to dancing on the graves of all the people who thought KS was an upgrade over JD or thought everything was fine. Unfortunately, it's our grave too.

It wasn't meant as bragging so much as pointing out that the same people that talked about waiting for 2017 recruits are now the ones telling us 2018 recruits are all that matters. Sometimes you can make a prediction, and some people would rather bury their heads in the sand.
 
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It wasn't meant as bragging so much as pointing out that the same people that talked about waiting for 2017 recruits are now the ones telling us 2018 recruits are all that matters. Sometimes you can make a prediction, and some people would rather bury their heads in the sand.
You have written off the 2017 recruits because of recruiting rankings - You have never seen them play at Pitt

I am willing to wait until they play 10 games or so before I judge them - You obviously are not
 
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Good, wait until they play 10 games. That will still tell us very little because most of those first 10 games will be against competition less than ACC-level. The WVU game will be a good predictor of what we can expect with this team and group of players this year. I'm just hoping we can stay within 30 of WVU.

And remember, we still have the same coach as we had last year and we know what we'll get with him. With or without better players, we won't win many games unfortunately. I'd love to be proven wrong because I want Pitt basketball to be back to the levels of play we had even 2 or 3 years ago. I hope I am wrong.
 
You have written off the 2017 recruits because of recruiting rankings - You have never seen them play at Pitt

I am willing to wait until they play 10 games or so before I judge them - You obviously are not

Ya let's see them play first.

We could certainly use a couple "diamond in the rough" type players in this class.
 
Good, wait until they play 10 games. That will still tell us very little because most of those first 10 games will be against competition less than ACC-level. The WVU game will be a good predictor of what we can expect with this team and group of players this year. I'm just hoping we can stay within 30 of WVU.

And remember, we still have the same coach as we had last year and we know what we'll get with him. With or without better players, we won't win many games unfortunately. I'd love to be proven wrong because I want Pitt basketball to be back to the levels of play we had even 2 or 3 years ago. I hope I am wrong.

Look - even IF it turns out that we have 5 or 6 players emerge from the 2017 recruiting class, we will still be playing basically a freshman team against the other teams varsity.

What I HOPE to see from our recruits are tools, intangibles(that had been mostly missing) and development.

In most places, freshmen are not brought in to start.

These recruits would typically not have been brought in to IMMEDIATELY replace Young, Artis, Jeter and Jones. They would have been brought in to support a foundation of Luther, Manigault, Johnson, Wilson and Kithcart and a bench of Nix, Clark and Milligan.

That was not much of a foundation and many of those players are now gone. The recruits will have to start and play a lot.

HOPEFULLY, even as recruits, Carr and Stewart can perform better than Wilson or Kithcart would have. Frame and Stevenson can approximate Cam Johnson. Luther can have an injury free season. Some combination of Brown, Peace, Samson and Chuckwuka can perform better than Manigault and NIx. That is realistically what we can HOPE for.

People are unhappy with the 2017 recruiting class. Based on Jamie Dixon's ACC recruiting history, it is quite likely his recruits would not have significantly changed our outlook.

We are who we are now. Be realistic and allow things to play out without the vitriol.
 
Look - even IF it turns out that we have 5 or 6 players emerge from the 2017 recruiting class, we will still be playing basically a freshman team against the other teams varsity.

What I HOPE to see from our recruits are tools, intangibles(that had been mostly missing) and development.

In most places, freshmen are not brought in to start.

These recruits would typically not have been brought in to IMMEDIATELY replace Young, Artis, Jeter and Jones. They would have been brought in to support a foundation of Luther, Manigault, Johnson, Wilson and Kithcart and a bench of Nix, Clark and Milligan.

That was not much of a foundation and many of those players are now gone. The recruits will have to start and play a lot.

HOPEFULLY, even as recruits, Carr and Stewart can perform better than Wilson or Kithcart would have. Frame and Stevenson can approximate Cam Johnson. Luther can have an injury free season. Some combination of Brown, Peace, Samson and Chuckwuka can perform better than Manigault and NIx. That is realistically what we can HOPE for.

People are unhappy with the 2017 recruiting class. Based on Jamie Dixon's ACC recruiting history, it is quite likely his recruits would not have significantly changed our outlook.

We are who we are now. Be realistic and allow things to play out without the vitriol.

Not so much vitriol as it is reality. We both agree to HOPE that this year will be better than what reality seems to indicate it will be. So at least we have that one common ground.
 
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People are unhappy with the 2017 recruiting class. Based on Jamie Dixon's ACC recruiting history, it is quite likely his recruits would not have significantly changed our outlook.

We are who we are now. Be realistic and allow things to play out without the vitriol.

The difference is I am being realistic, as I was back in December, and you are not. When people in that other thread were beating their chests over barely beating scrubs in the OOC, I was realistic enough to analyze the advanced stats and see we were in for a huge collapse, and even I didn't see it going as awfully as 4-14.

Even if I give KS every benefit of the doubt, there is literally zero potential of this 2018 team being better than 2017. Even if I give KS every benefit of the doubt on 2019, he can't be marginally better than 2017 again. If he has three seasons with no better than a 6-12 finish, he will be fired.

I have nothing against any of the kids he signed. I hope each of them stay at Pitt for their entire careers and any coaches they have (KS or his replacement) help them achieve their maximum potentials. The issue is that guys like you keep pointing backward and screaming about Dixon's shortcomings while completely ignoring that the current coach is doing the same things and worse. You are literally repeating history and too naive to admit it.

Someone once posted that, in hindsight, if we had parted ways with Dixon after the 2012 CBI season, things might have been much better by 2016 than they actually were. That's an impossible game to play, but you can't refute that what appeared to be an unusual outlier in 2012 ended up being an omen of continued mediocrity. Similarly, all of you guys portending great success under Stallings are completely ignoring the fact that 2018 is going to be KS's fourth losing season out of six. When this whole experiment ends, a bunch of people are going to look back, with hindsight, and ask what the heck they were thinking.
 
The difference is I am being realistic, as I was back in December, and you are not. When people in that other thread were beating their chests over barely beating scrubs in the OOC, I was realistic enough to analyze the advanced stats and see we were in for a huge collapse, and even I didn't see it going as awfully as 4-14.

Even if I give KS every benefit of the doubt, there is literally zero potential of this 2018 team being better than 2017. Even if I give KS every benefit of the doubt on 2019, he can't be marginally better than 2017 again. If he has three seasons with no better than a 6-12 finish, he will be fired.

I have nothing against any of the kids he signed. I hope each of them stay at Pitt for their entire careers and any coaches they have (KS or his replacement) help them achieve their maximum potentials. The issue is that guys like you keep pointing backward and screaming about Dixon's shortcomings while completely ignoring that the current coach is doing the same things and worse. You are literally repeating history and too naive to admit it.

Someone once posted that, in hindsight, if we had parted ways with Dixon after the 2012 CBI season, things might have been much better by 2016 than they actually were. That's an impossible game to play, but you can't refute that what appeared to be an unusual outlier in 2012 ended up being an omen of continued mediocrity. Similarly, all of you guys portending great success under Stallings are completely ignoring the fact that 2018 is going to be KS's fourth losing season out of six. When this whole experiment ends, a bunch of people are going to look back, with hindsight, and ask what the heck they were thinking.

Excellent post. This post should be pinned somewhere.
 
Excellent post. This post should be pinned somewhere.
I agree - Definitely pin it somewhere

I am so thankful someone used advanced stats to predict that a team without a PG or Center or any Depth, would play considerably worse against the ACC than the OC schedule.
 
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The difference is I am being realistic, as I was back in December, and you are not. When people in that other thread were beating their chests over barely beating scrubs in the OOC, I was realistic enough to analyze the advanced stats and see we were in for a huge collapse, and even I didn't see it going as awfully as 4-14.

Even if I give KS every benefit of the doubt, there is literally zero potential of this 2018 team being better than 2017. Even if I give KS every benefit of the doubt on 2019, he can't be marginally better than 2017 again. If he has three seasons with no better than a 6-12 finish, he will be fired.

I have nothing against any of the kids he signed. I hope each of them stay at Pitt for their entire careers and any coaches they have (KS or his replacement) help them achieve their maximum potentials. The issue is that guys like you keep pointing backward and screaming about Dixon's shortcomings while completely ignoring that the current coach is doing the same things and worse. You are literally repeating history and too naive to admit it.

Someone once posted that, in hindsight, if we had parted ways with Dixon after the 2012 CBI season, things might have been much better by 2016 than they actually were. That's an impossible game to play, but you can't refute that what appeared to be an unusual outlier in 2012 ended up being an omen of continued mediocrity. Similarly, all of you guys portending great success under Stallings are completely ignoring the fact that 2018 is going to be KS's fourth losing season out of six. When this whole experiment ends, a bunch of people are going to look back, with hindsight, and ask what the heck they were thinking.


The 2016 failure of a season, the medicorce 2017 class, and perhaps worse 2018 class has sealed his fate.

If anyone remembers the movie Searching For Bobby Fischer, there's a line at the end of the film where the kid looks at the chessboard and says to his opponent "you've lost, you just don't know it yet". Even though checkmate is like 20 moves away.

That's kind of how I feel now. It's how I felt the moment he was hired. Considering I will be at every game, rooting for this team and program with every fiber in my being, no one would rather be wrong than me. But even if things go a little well at times, I just won't be able to shake the sense that this hire is already lost, and some on here just don't know it yet.

We'll see.
 
The 2016 failure of a season, the medicorce 2017 class, and perhaps worse 2018 class has sealed his fate.

If anyone remembers the movie Searching For Bobby Fischer, there's a line at the end of the film where the kid looks at the chessboard and says to his opponent "you've lost, you just don't know it yet". Even though checkmate is like 20 moves away.

That's kind of how I feel now. It's how I felt the moment he was hired. Considering I will be at every game, rooting for this team and program with every fiber in my being, no one would rather be wrong than me. But even if things go a little well at times, I just won't be able to shake the sense that this hire is already lost, and some on here just don't know it yet.

We'll see.

Couldn't have said it any better than this. Perfect analogy.

I'm afraid that the ones on here that don't know yet that this hire is already lost, won't know it was lost in 2 or 3 years either, in spite of it slapping them in the face.
 
Look - even IF it turns out that we have 5 or 6 players emerge from the 2017 recruiting class, we will still be playing basically a freshman team against the other teams varsity.

What I HOPE to see from our recruits are tools, intangibles(that had been mostly missing) and development.

In most places, freshmen are not brought in to start.

These recruits would typically not have been brought in to IMMEDIATELY replace Young, Artis, Jeter and Jones. They would have been brought in to support a foundation of Luther, Manigault, Johnson, Wilson and Kithcart and a bench of Nix, Clark and Milligan.

That was not much of a foundation and many of those players are now gone. The recruits will have to start and play a lot.

HOPEFULLY, even as recruits, Carr and Stewart can perform better than Wilson or Kithcart would have. Frame and Stevenson can approximate Cam Johnson. Luther can have an injury free season. Some combination of Brown, Peace, Samson and Chuckwuka can perform better than Manigault and NIx. That is realistically what we can HOPE for.

People are unhappy with the 2017 recruiting class. Based on Jamie Dixon's ACC recruiting history, it is quite likely his recruits would not have significantly changed our outlook.

We are who we are now. Be realistic and allow things to play out without the vitriol.
This, while honest, shows exactly how the arguments will be reshaped in 4 months. These recruits HAVE to play because there is no one else on the roster. So, the narrative will be: "See how much more they are playing than the 2015/6 recruits Dixon left Stallings." When they struggle it will be: "They are FR." When they fill up the stat sheet with empty counters because SOMEONE has to score (and rebound and pass the ball) at some point: "See how much better they are than the 2015/6 recruits Dixon left Stallings."

Rinse and repeat, until Stallings is fired and then those same people will say how much Stallings saddled the next coach and the excuses will follow for whoever that is.
 
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This, while honest, shows exactly how the arguments will be reshaped in 4 months. These recruits HAVE to play because there is no one else on the roster. So, the narrative will be: "See how much more they are playing than the 2015/6 recruits Dixon left Stallings." When they struggle it will be: "They are FR." When they fill up the stat sheet with empty counters because SOMEONE has to score (and rebound and pass the ball) at some point: "See how much better they are than the 2015/6 recruits Dixon left Stallings."

Rinse and repeat, until Stallings is fired and then those same people will say how much Stallings saddled the next coach and the excuses will follow for whoever that is.

I can not speak for everyone, but I can tell you now, I will never say Carr/Stewart are better than Kithcart/Wison based on PPG/APG. I will never say Brown/Peace/George/Chuckwuka are better than Nix/Manigault based on PPG/RBPG

I will make a judgement based on what I see in the way of tools, intangibles, potential and development.

Never having seen the new players play at Pitt, I do not know that they will be better. I do know that their bar to be better is pretty low.
 
I can not speak for everyone, but I can tell you now, I will never say Carr/Stewart are better than Kithcart/Wison based on PPG/APG. I will never say Brown/Peace/George/Chuckwuka are better than Nix/Manigault based on PPG/RBPG

I will make a judgement based on what I see in the way of tools, intangibles, potential and development.

Never having seen the new players play at Pitt, I do not know that they will be better. I do know that their bar to be better is pretty low.
I agree that is largely true. I wonder how much of that is thanks to a largely incompetent HC who seemingly had no interest in trying to improve the players in the program. I imagine if we had a FR Cam Johnson on last year's team he would not have played and he would be headed to somewhere like South Alabama, while a group would be claiming that proved he sucks and the bar to replace him is incredibly low.
 
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I can not speak for everyone, but I can tell you now, I will never say Carr/Stewart are better than Kithcart/Wison based on PPG/APG. I will never say Brown/Peace/George/Chuckwuka are better than Nix/Manigault based on PPG/RBPG

I will make a judgement based on what I see in the way of tools, intangibles, potential and development.

Never having seen the new players play at Pitt, I do not know that they will be better. I do know that their bar to be better is pretty low.
I'll judge on wins and losses
 
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