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AP: NCAA Takes Aim at Confederate Symbols

Chair I only taught history for 31 years so I do know a little about the history of the US. Actually my expertise is the Civil War Era so I am informed about what happened to whom during this time in our history.

Your original comment was: "I say do away with history."

I took that comment to be flippant and basically saying, "people want to take down these statues and erase/do away/some other synonym or similar statement with history."

If it was not, I apologize and just would ask you to clarify what you meant.

If that was the meaning though, I stand on my original words. No one is "saying do away with history." People are saying, do not glorify and/or honor the Confederacy some very obvious reasons (which, as a Civil War history buff, you have to be familiar with those events and likely are familiar with the events afterward and their present effect on American society). Put the history into museums and out of public view to loom over America (as the Confederates were undeniably traitors, I mean they called themselves "rebels" so they were not denying it and their descendants never truly have to present time) and those who the Confederates sought to oppress forever (meaning, people that were slaves and/or African descent and their descendants).

No one ever allowed Nazis to put up statues 20+ years later once things cooled down; the Confederates should never have been afforded that right and this is something that can be easily rectified now in a teaching moment by what we would all hope is a more enlightened society. The history needs to be taught in detail, to teach our children to never, ever, ever go down that road again. No one is saying forget or erase it. But the statues clearly do not need to be in open public places and United States military bases do not need to be named after men that tried to topple the United States.

And, if that was the meaning (my initial interpretation), I think pointing out your expertise is merely once again confusing, this time as to my statement. No one ever questioned your history knowledge. I did question the intent and meaning of your original statement.
 
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What I really don't understand is how idiots in Michigan (Kid Rock, etc.) or other northern states can fly the confederate flag. Really? Did we fight for the confederacy? That flag represents treason to me. Do you really want to celebrate states trying to leave the greatest country ever so they could keep slaves? If you're trying to say you're a bad boy or something, find a different symbol. Otherwise, you are celebrating slavery, treason, and racism. Pure evil.
 
Chair I only taught history for 31 years

Did you teach that the civil war was about "states rights" because this is bs. The civil war was about slavery pure and simple.

What I really don't understand is how idiots in Michigan (Kid Rock, etc.) or other northern states can fly the confederate flag

I believe to justify the cause and to appear superior in knowledge educators (even at the college level ) started this bs that the civil war was not about slavery but about self-determination and state rights. Thus the implication in the north was to fly the flag as a means of saying "don't tread on me", which is to me an appropriate flag to fly. But the confederated flag is not, it is a KKK symbol pure and simple!!!
 
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Your original comment was: "I say do away with history."

I took that comment to be flippant and basically saying, "people want to take down these statues and erase/do away/some other synonym or similar statement with history."

If was not, I apologize and just would ask you to clarify what you meant.

If that was the meaning though, I stand on my original words. No one is "saying do away with history." People are saying, do not glorify and/or honor the Confederacy some very obvious reasons (which, as a Civil War history buff, you have to be familiar with those events and likely are familiar with the events afterward and their present effect on American society). Put the history into museums and out of public view to loom over America (as the Confederates were undeniably traitors, I mean they called themselves "rebels" so they were not denying it and their descendants never truly have to present time) and those who the Confederates sought to oppress forever (meaning, people that were slaves and/or African descent and their descendants).

No one ever allowed Nazis to put up statues 20+ years later once things cooled down; the Confederates should never have been afforded that right and this is something that can be easily rectified now in a teaching moment by what we would all hope is a more enlightened society. The history needs to be taught in detail, to teach our children to never, ever, ever go down that road again. No one is saying forget or erase it. But the statutes clearly do not need to be in open public places and United States military bases do not need to be named after men that tried to topple the United States.

And, if that was the meaning (my initial interpretation), I think pointing out your expertise is merely once again confusing, this time as to my statement. No one ever questioned your history knowledge. I did question the intent and meaning of your original statement.

Chair as everyone knows on here I don’t argue with other people's opinions.You have your opinions and I have mine about statues,politics,women,names and who is glorified .Sometimes I'm right and many times I'm wrong on things.Remember History is taught everyday in this country both inside and outside of a classroom.
 
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Chair as everyone knows on here I don’t argue with other people's opinions.You have your opinions and I have mine about statues,politics,women,names and who is glorified .Sometimes I'm right and many times I'm wrong on things.Remember History is taught everyday in this country both inside and outside of a classroom.

If you cannot explain your original comment (ie: use facts, not opinions, to validate it), then why make it?

Once again, I believe your answer is mostly just an obfuscation but I am more than willing to drop the discussion as seems your intent.
 
This whole thing has always been confusing even with debate. Toss them in museums and explain the history and context there.

I can't believe it's taken this long to even this far.
 
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This whole thing has always been confusing even with debate. Toss them in museums and explain the history and context there.

I can't believe it's taken this long to even this far.

Nobody needs a statue to remember history. It’s not like Penn State forgot Paterno. If “history” is that important, let’s fund schools better so we can actually teach what happened. A lot of people still don’t know real history (as proven in this forum, time and again).
 
the problem with removing the statues is where will it end? Someone can always find a reason to take down every monument and if we continue to let mob mentality rule we are headed down the wrong path. I mean tearing down statues of George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Ulysses S Grant, Frances Scott Key, and Saint Junipero? If democrats support these actions they will quickly lose any chance to win the election because the middle third of the voting population won't support pushing the country this far to the extreme left.
 
the problem with removing the statues is where will it end? Someone can always find a reason to take down every monument and if we continue to let mob mentality rule we are headed down the wrong path. I mean tearing down statues of George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Ulysses S Grant, Frances Scott Key, and Saint Junipero? If democrats support these actions they will quickly lose any chance to win the election because the middle third of the voting population won't support pushing the country this far to the extreme left.
Can save that debate for another time. These are Confederate soldiers and generals and a Confederate flag. Seems pretty clear cut to me and most others. Get these ones down and then go from there.

Or, as others have said, they can wave their proper flag. Wave it loud and the proud. It would be a plain white one though. Because... They lost. And, the Confederacy ceased to exist forever ago.
 
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the problem with removing the statues is where will it end? Someone can always find a reason to take down every monument and if we continue to let mob mentality rule we are headed down the wrong path. I mean tearing down statues of George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Ulysses S Grant, Frances Scott Key, and Saint Junipero? If democrats support these actions they will quickly lose any chance to win the election because the middle third of the voting population won't support pushing the country this far to the extreme left.
It ends somewhere
Start with taking down literal symbols of glorifying oppression - and then we can debate future ones
 
Why is this a debate for another time? The people I listed below have literally had their statues torn down in the past few days in San Francisco and Portland. It is part of the discussion. Also just saw they are taking down a Teddy Roosevelt statue in New York.

Can save that debate for another time. These are Confederate soldiers and generals and a Confederate flag. Seems pretty clear cut to me and most others. Get these ones down and then go from there.

Or, as others have said, they can wave their proper flag. Wave it loud and the proud. It would be a plain white one though. Because... They lost. And, the Confederacy ceased to exist forever ago.
 
the problem with removing the statues is where will it end? Someone can always find a reason to take down every monument and if we continue to let mob mentality rule we are headed down the wrong path. I mean tearing down statues of George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Ulysses S Grant, Frances Scott Key, and Saint Junipero? If democrats support these actions they will quickly lose any chance to win the election because the middle third of the voting population won't support pushing the country this far to the extreme left.

Maybe we should just not build statues for people.
 
And who gets to make the decision what symbols glorify oppression? Should it be law makers and the voters who choose them or rogue groups of people out destroying public property?

It ends somewhere
Start with taking down literal symbols of glorifying oppression - and then we can debate future ones
 
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That has been on the table for a long time. Hell they changed the Washington Bullets name.

Although I would like to hear someone try to justify why the professional football team in Washington D.C. shouldn’t have to change their name. And I’m not a real big PC guy...but wrong is wrong.
 
There was no such person. It was built on a racial stereotype. You may be a HUGE part of this problem.

The reason you have Aunt Jemima on your maple syrup is because it is the recipe of a real person name Aunt Jemima who profited from the recipe and and her likeness and name being associated with the product. She was a former slave, but was a free woman when she sold her food products and became quite wealthy from it.
 
Please don't tell me you taught at Mapletown.

Chair I only taught history for 31 years so I do know a little about the history of the US. Actually my expertise is the Civil War Era so I am informed about what happened to whom during this time in our history.
 
Some people seem to believe that history that didn't happen in their lifetime is ancient history. But in the grand scheme of things 50, 75, 100 years ago is very recent. No one ever seems to talk about Red Summer.

The truth is these symbols were literally raised for the express intent of intimidation and degradation
It’s also why our history is so white washed - for those history is sancrosaint-
Why is the Tulsa massacre covered ?
Hell , Ruby Bridges is 65 years old - 65!
That’s some depressing recent ass history
 
The reason you have Aunt Jemima on your maple syrup is because it is the recipe of a real person name Aunt Jemima who profited from the recipe and and her likeness and name being associated with the product. She was a former slave, but was a free woman when she sold her food products and became quite wealthy from it.
That is flat out wrong
The name Aunt Jemima was a minstrel show song .
The real woman’s name was Nancy Green

It wasn’t her recipe - she literally auditioned for the part for a company who created the mix .
In the fall of 1889, Rutt was inspired to rename the mix after attending a minstrel show, during which a popular song titled “Old Aunt Jemima” was performed by men in blackface, one of whom was dressed as a slave mammy of the plantation South.
 
What I really don't understand is how idiots in Michigan (Kid Rock, etc.) or other northern states can fly the confederate flag. Really? Did we fight for the confederacy? That flag represents treason to me. Do you really want to celebrate states trying to leave the greatest country ever so they could keep slaves? If you're trying to say you're a bad boy or something, find a different symbol. Otherwise, you are celebrating slavery, treason, and racism. Pure evil.

Yeah it makes more sense when you realize these flags (and confederate statues) started up again in the 1950s and 60s. Then neither the southern pride or northern bad boy arguments hold a lot of water.

There is one confederate statue I think should stay, which is the one in Tennessee for the founder of the Klan, Nathan Bedford Forest. This is way too ugly not to keep:

195786298_f213e06da0_o.jpg
 
Maybe we should just not build statues for people.

I think the best learning opportunities I had growing up were visiting Washington DC, Paris, London, ect. and visiting the monuments and historical sites.

They are simply rock and metal. Basically just physical reminders of a piece of history....good or bad, and its silly to view people under only one single issue when their contribution was larger.

Cam Newton has one.
 
I think the best learning opportunities I had growing up were visiting Washington DC, Paris, London, ect. and visiting the monuments and historical sites.

They are simply rock and metal. Basically just physical reminders of a piece of history....good or bad, and its silly to view people under only one single issue when their contribution was larger.

Cam Newton has one.

I have no problem having statues or things in museums. That way there's a chance to provide some context.
 
One of the better facts about Jefferson is that for all his writings, when he died, he freed his slaves that were likely related to him and sold the rest (continuing them into slavery). He was no real champion of the dignity of all mankind, merely an extremely intelligent man of his times.

Conversely, George Washington, who never spoke much on slavery or as eloquently to the rights of man as Thomas Jefferson, granted freedom to all of his slaves once his wife passed away (which she did 2 years after his passing).

It tells you a little more about who Washington was as a man and who Jefferson was as a man. One of them talked a great deal, the other's actions spoke for him. That is probably why Washington was the man that the other men reviewed whether he should just be the king.

I do not mean to diminish Jefferson completely as he certainly was a central figure in this country's formation, but other men probably should be used as examples for their insights into "the dignity of all mankind."

And as far as slavery being a known entity and the Civil War iconography that occurred much later after the expiration of the Civil War, as an American and a person of color, they are just as bad as Nazis. The knowledge or lack thereof of their actions does not justify the actions themselves. The actions of Southern slave owners leading into the Civil War and even afterwards once sharecropping, etc. came along were just as heinous as the actions taken by the Nazis before and leading into the WWII.

Honoring such events and people that fought to destruct the Union and keep people of African descent enslaved has been a black mark for this country for 140 years. I am sure that the folks in Germany still quietly honored their dead relatives after WWII without the pomp and fanfare.

Take the Confederate statues down, put them in museums, rename everything that has/had a Confederate name and move forward. They should have never went up in the first place.

i think on this often. they've done DNA and they're like 99.999% certain those children were his. he obviously wasn't the only one to enslave one's own children. the depravity of mankind to make personal profit over anything else is massive.

imagine looking at child, with your face, and forcing them to labor for you in terrible conditions, beat, and starve them. it's really crazy to me.

and jefferson himself did it - the man who wrote one of the greatest political and social documents in history.
 
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