B10 debating taking 4 more P12 to get Amazon deal

Sean Miller Fan

Lair Hall of Famer
Oct 30, 2001
55,713
17,105
113

Considering Oregon, Washington, Cal, and Stanford to add inventory, which Amazon would buy. However, since Fox, CBS, and NBC already won their rights, Amazon would be buying the worst games.....the games that those networks dont want. I cant imagine an Amazon package of games like Indiana/Northwestern, Rutgers/Cal, and Illinois/Stanford is worth enough to offset the equal amount they'd have to pay the 4 P12 schools to come in but who knows.

These are ideas the ACC should be thinking about though. If the Big Ten passes, the ACC absolutely should offer those teams.
 

HailToPitt725

Heisman Winner
May 16, 2016
8,672
8,224
113
So if the Big Ten, or any major conference, were to make such a deal, would Amazon, etc. be buying the Tier 3/RSN games to broadcast?
 
  • Like
Reactions: RaleighPittFan

Duneaux Harm

Sophomore
Nov 30, 2020
2,257
2,156
113
Whatever. The SEC seems to be doing it right with the Big Ten just expanding for expansion sake. None of those teams really improve the quality of play one iota.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 303vND

HailToPitt725

Heisman Winner
May 16, 2016
8,672
8,224
113
Whatever. The SEC seems to be doing it right with the Big Ten just expanding for expansion sake. None of those teams really improve the quality of play one iota.
I don’t disagree, but I don’t think they’re considering the quality of play…
scrooge-mcduck-gif-1.gif
 
Oct 25, 2021
6,292
5,161
113
Saw an idea pitched yesterday where the ACC basically controls a merger between the ACC, the Big 12, and the PAC 12. It basically looked at every team on an individual basis and put the top ones in one league and let the others sort of land on their feet in another. So it was like Clemson, UNC, Oklahoma State, Pitt, Baylor, Utah, etc. in one league. Then it was Wake, Duke, Kansas, Colorado, Washington State, etc. in another.

I think that'd be a pretty cool proactive move by the ACC. It's kind of like a different form of more fair revenue sharing. Like Clemson getting the same as Wake probably isn't fair, and so in this case the teams would be paid more equally to their comparable programs. I think you'd be breaking the GOR and opening yourself up to losing a few teams, too, but I'm not sure how many among these three conferences are considered desirable gets by the big two.
 
Last edited:

pittdan77

Athletic Director
Jan 5, 2011
15,784
10,242
113
The Vast Wasteland of Central Pennsylvania
Saw an idea pitched yesterday where the ACC basically controls a merger between the ACC, the Big 12, and the PAC 12. It basically looked at every team on an individual basis and put the top ones in one league and let the others sort of land on their feet in another. So it was like Clemson, USC, Oklahoma State, Pitt, Baylor, Utah, etc. in one league. Then it was Wake, Duke, Kansas, Colorado, Washington State, etc. in another.

I think that'd be a pretty cool proactive move by the ACC. It's kind of like a different form of more fair revenue sharing. Like Clemson getting the same as Wake probably isn't fair, and so in this case the teams would be paid more equally to their comparable programs. I think you'd be breaking the GOR and opening yourself up to losing a few teams, too, but I'm not sure how many among these three conferences are considered desirable gets by the big two.
I won't say something isn't possible but I think the TV people believe they can move the more valuable content as they choose and leave the rest to to stay where they are and get their rights at a discount. As it stands, the ACC is the only conference of those three to be in a position to broker something without a ton of risk. I think it would be in the ACC's best interest to wait and see what the PAC12 and Big12 can do with TV money before risking any expansion. Chance someone is left undervalued or that the conference itself becomes much more valuable in comparison and syphon more money from other sources. I don't know.
 

pittdan77

Athletic Director
Jan 5, 2011
15,784
10,242
113
The Vast Wasteland of Central Pennsylvania
At some point you do. Amazon or whomever is going to expect something m9re than just laying out cash. If it doesn’t produce eyeballs, the first contract will be the last And then what?
They got more viewers for a Thursday night game than just about every regular season college game, last year. I can't imagine they'd wade in deeper without some certainty.
 
  • Like
Reactions: HailToPitt725

Sean Miller Fan

Lair Hall of Famer
Oct 30, 2001
55,713
17,105
113
So if the Big Ten, or any major conference, were to make such a deal, would Amazon, etc. be buying the Tier 3/RSN games to broadcast?
Basically yes, which is why its hard to imagine Amazon would pay enough. They'd have to pay, what, like $400 million/year for the worst Big Ten games so that Ore, Wash, Cal, and Stanford can make $100 million/year like the other 16. That seems unrealistic.
 
  • Like
Reactions: HailToPitt725

Duneaux Harm

Sophomore
Nov 30, 2020
2,257
2,156
113
They got more viewers for a Thursday night game than just about every regular season college game, last year. I can't imagine they'd wade in deeper without some certainty.
NFL is vastly different than college. The best college game is about 1/3 the rating of an NFL game. How much of a draw do you think the Stanford-Northwestern game will be on Amazon prime on a Saturday?
 

Sean Miller Fan

Lair Hall of Famer
Oct 30, 2001
55,713
17,105
113
NFL is vastly different than college. The best college game is about 1/3 the rating of an NFL game. How much of a draw do you think the Stanford-Northwestern game will be on Amazon prime on a Saturday?
There's no way Amazon could make money showing Stanford/Northwestern especially when its up against Ohio State/Michigan State on NBC, Clemson/NC State on ABC, Illinois/Wisconsin on BTN, Alabama/Oklahoma on ESPN, PSU/Maryland on Fox, TT/KSt on ESPN2, etc. That doesn't mean they wont do it however. They may be ok losing money to get into the market, I dont know.
 

Duneaux Harm

Sophomore
Nov 30, 2020
2,257
2,156
113
There's no way Amazon could make money showing Stanford/Northwestern especially when its up against Ohio State/Michigan State on NBC, Clemson/NC State on ABC, Illinois/Wisconsin on BTN, Alabama/Oklahoma on ESPN, PSU/Maryland on Fox, TT/KSt on ESPN2, etc. That doesn't mean they wont do it however. They may be ok losing money to get into the market, I dont know.
Bezos won’t his workers take a bathroom break. Do you really think he will let an exec convince him to lose money on college football?
 
  • Haha
Reactions: RaleighPittFan

pittdan77

Athletic Director
Jan 5, 2011
15,784
10,242
113
The Vast Wasteland of Central Pennsylvania
NFL is vastly different than college. The best college game is about 1/3 the rating of an NFL game. How much of a draw do you think the Stanford-Northwestern game will be on Amazon prime on a Saturday?
I really don't know. I mean, they other side of it is, for the conference to admit anyone else, this TV deal would have to bring some serious money. Can't see it.
 

Sean Miller Fan

Lair Hall of Famer
Oct 30, 2001
55,713
17,105
113
Bezos won’t his workers take a bathroom break. Do you really think he will let an exec convince him to lose money on college football?
Didn't Bezos "leave" Amazon? Either way, there are times when businesses opt to lose money in the short-term in some plan to make money over the long term. Not saying that's the Amazon plan here but who knows, maybe they think they'd make money though I dont see how. Seems like most Americans already have Prime subscriptions. If they have to pay $400 million/year for the worst B10 games, they'd have to sell 3 million more subscriptions per year to break even and that seems impossible.

Now, maybe the B10 tells Ore, Wash, Cal, and Stanford that they're in but the only TV revenue they get is from whatever Amazon pays??? That could work. Would those 4 schools really turn that down? Would Pitt if they were offered that? Heck no, we/they wouldn't
 

4382

Walk-on
Sep 4, 2021
124
77
28
There's no way Amazon could make money showing Stanford/Northwestern especially when its up against Ohio State/Michigan State on NBC, Clemson/NC State on ABC, Illinois/Wisconsin on BTN, Alabama/Oklahoma on ESPN, PSU/Maryland on Fox, TT/KSt on ESPN2, etc. That doesn't mean they wont do it however. They may be ok losing money to get into the market, I dont know.
People always use the best vs worse case scenario. When was the last time all those games were on all at the same time? For amazon this is not about the revenue they can get by airing the 28 football games. It about the number of prime memberships they can sell along with the additional revenue they from the use of that Prime membership. It becomes multi level deal. Sure the hook will be buy a membership so you don't miss football and basketball games but also use that membership at the new Prime Penn State store along with million of other products. Collectively with the 6 PAC schools the B1G has 7.6 million alumni. When you add in just fans there a ton of potential new memberships. So yes they will probably lose money on just airing games in a traditional sense from ad revenue but make it up in other channels.
 
  • Like
Reactions: pittdan77

Sean Miller Fan

Lair Hall of Famer
Oct 30, 2001
55,713
17,105
113
People always use the best vs worse case scenario. When was the last time all those games were on all at the same time? For amazon this is not about the revenue they can get by airing the 28 football games. It about the number of prime memberships they can sell along with the additional revenue they from the use of that Prime membership. It becomes multi level deal. Sure the hook will be buy a membership so you don't miss football and basketball games but also use that membership at the new Prime Penn State store along with million of other products. Collectively with the 6 PAC schools the B1G has 7.6 million alumni. When you add in just fans there a ton of potential new memberships. So yes they will probably lose money on just airing games in a traditional sense from ad revenue but make it up in other channels.
They dont need to televise Stanford vs Rutgers to open a Prime Store in State College. PSU, OSU, and Michigan will never be on Prime. Also, how much profit does a brick and mortar retail store bring in nowadays?

They'd have to add 3 million Big Ten fan subscribers to break even. That's too many. I dont see any way they can make money in the short term. They would do it, knowing they'd lose money, but as some grand plan to, like change the viewership habits of football fans or something like that so they can make money in the future.
 

HailtoPitt

Board of Trustee
Jun 18, 2001
26,614
9,269
113
Amazon isn't making that third rate deal. Likely bs from some Big Ten shills who think they are above Amazon.

With that said... Pitt should try to move heaven and Earth to get into the Big Ten.
 

Duneaux Harm

Sophomore
Nov 30, 2020
2,257
2,156
113
People always use the best vs worse case scenario. When was the last time all those games were on all at the same time? For amazon this is not about the revenue they can get by airing the 28 football games. It about the number of prime memberships they can sell along with the additional revenue they from the use of that Prime membership. It becomes multi level deal. Sure the hook will be buy a membership so you don't miss football and basketball games but also use that membership at the new Prime Penn State store along with million of other products. Collectively with the 6 PAC schools the B1G has 7.6 million alumni. When you add in just fans there a ton of potential new memberships. So yes they will probably lose money on just airing games in a traditional sense from ad revenue but make it up in other channels.
I watchEd the Steelers last Thursday on Prime because it was the Steelers. I doubt seriously if I will watch Miami against Cinncy tonight. If Prime competed against CBS and Fox for Sunday afternoon football and they didn’t have my favorite team then I would watch the broadcast networks because they are just infinitesimally easier to watch.

If it’s now college football on a Saturday where there are six or seven games on at any one time then I am definitely watching my broadcast streaming provider rather than click on Prime…clicking on The Who is watching icon…scrollimg down to find the damn game and then clicking on it and then clicking on the watch live icon to finally get to the game. Oh dang something exciting is happening on three of the seven games on my YouTubeTv streaming channels let me get out of prime and go back to that platform, These games are pretty good. Do I really want to go through the whole shenanigans to get back to watching Cal play Purdue? An alumni…sure. An average fan…likely no.

Amazon is everywhere. My daughter works at a hospital and a significant number of Amazon packages are delivered for patients every day. There may be subscribers out there for Amazon but probably not a significant increase to warrant the costs to broadcast second level college football.
 

4382

Walk-on
Sep 4, 2021
124
77
28
They dont need to televise Stanford vs Rutgers to open a Prime Store in State College. PSU, OSU, and Michigan will never be on Prime. Also, how much profit does a brick and mortar retail store bring in nowadays?

They'd have to add 3 million Big Ten fan subscribers to break even. That's too many. I dont see any way they can make money in the short term. They would do it, knowing they'd lose money, but as some grand plan to, like change the viewership habits of football fans or something like that so they can make money in the future.
Just like with BTN they can require at least one game appears on it. I am not talking brick and mortar retail store. I am referring to create virtual store fronts that Amazon could create. Yes they won't add that many subscribers but if you look at all the potential channels of revenue it is doable. I could see this easily replacing the BTN plus subscription that televises many of the non televised games in all sports.
 

Sean Miller Fan

Lair Hall of Famer
Oct 30, 2001
55,713
17,105
113
Just like with BTN they can require at least one game appears on it. I am not talking brick and mortar retail store. I am referring to create virtual store fronts that Amazon could create. Yes they won't add that many subscribers but if you look at all the potential channels of revenue it is doable. I could see this easily replacing the BTN plus subscription that televises many of the non televised games in all sports.
The problem is Fox, CBS, and NBC get the first 5-6 selections every week. So that's games involving OSU, PSU, Michigan, and maybe USC. Amazon would pick after that. So, yea they may be able to get a few decent games here and there. Maybe Wisconsin vs Iowa isnt picked up by Fox, CBS, and NBC but that's about the highest level of game they could possibly get.
 

pittdan77

Athletic Director
Jan 5, 2011
15,784
10,242
113
The Vast Wasteland of Central Pennsylvania
People always use the best vs worse case scenario. When was the last time all those games were on all at the same time? For amazon this is not about the revenue they can get by airing the 28 football games. It about the number of prime memberships they can sell along with the additional revenue they from the use of that Prime membership. It becomes multi level deal. Sure the hook will be buy a membership so you don't miss football and basketball games but also use that membership at the new Prime Penn State store along with million of other products. Collectively with the 6 PAC schools the B1G has 7.6 million alumni. When you add in just fans there a ton of potential new memberships. So yes they will probably lose money on just airing games in a traditional sense from ad revenue but make it up in other channels.
I hadn't really looked at it from that angle. If that were the case, I would be fascinated by the financial justification as some sort of "loss leader" proposition.

The one thing with the B1G is that reliable high-speed internet isn't available over vast swaths of the conference footprint. Even in Central PA, there are places within a stone's throw of State College that don't have good enough access to watch a game. That's pretty true of any rural area. I also know a lot of people that won't even pay for the sports cable package with their current TV provider so there I think there would need to be something of a philosophical transition in a lot of people's minds.

Good stuff. Hadn't thought of that.
 

Duneaux Harm

Sophomore
Nov 30, 2020
2,257
2,156
113
Just like with BTN they can require at least one game appears on it. I am not talking brick and mortar retail store. I am referring to create virtual store fronts that Amazon could create. Yes they won't add that many subscribers but if you look at all the potential channels of revenue it is doable. I could see this easily replacing the BTN plus subscription that televises many of the non televised games in all sports.
Amazon Prime on a monthly basis is $14.99 per month. Why would someone buy a prime subscription to possibly watch their school play but likely not have them on air at all, maybe. The BTN likely broadcasts almost every second tier game. Why but an extra subscription for the off chance to watch your team? Right now, with ACCN, I get to see Pitt play almost every week. What are the odds over a twelve week season that Pitt would be the feature game on an Amazon Prime type network? Probably pretty slim. So why would I add a prime membership if I won’t have a constant ability to watch my team,

I could be wrong but I think someone is testing the waters with this “leak” to see what action occurs. It’s not that obvious.
 

MarshallGoldberg

All Conference
Oct 23, 2017
5,351
3,261
113
No clue what Amazon is interested in sports-wise but overall they've proven themselves a company willing to lose money in the short term to make money in the long term. So I would never be surprised if they made a "bad" deal to get their foot in the door.
 

Sean Miller Fan

Lair Hall of Famer
Oct 30, 2001
55,713
17,105
113
Amazon Prime on a monthly basis is $14.99 per month. Why would someone buy a prime subscription to possibly watch their school play but likely not have them on air at all, maybe. The BTN likely broadcasts almost every second tier game. Why but an extra subscription for the off chance to watch your team? Right now, with ACCN, I get to see Pitt play almost every week. What are the odds over a twelve week season that Pitt would be the feature game on an Amazon Prime type network? Probably pretty slim. So why would I add a prime membership if I won’t have a constant ability to watch my team,

I could be wrong but I think someone is testing the waters with this “leak” to see what action occurs. It’s not that obvious.
PSU, OSU, Mich, and USC would never play on Prime

The 2nd tier programs: Ore, Wash, MSU, Wisky, Iowa, Neb, etc would play on Prime 1-2 times per season is my guess

The lower tier programs would play on Prime 3-4 times per season. So if you are a Rutgers, NW, Indiana, or Stanford fan, for example, you'd need Prime.
 

Sean Miller Fan

Lair Hall of Famer
Oct 30, 2001
55,713
17,105
113
No clue what Amazon is interested in sports-wise but overall they've proven themselves a company willing to lose money in the short term to make money in the long term. So I would never be surprised if they made a "bad" deal to get their foot in the door.
This is my thought.
 

Duneaux Harm

Sophomore
Nov 30, 2020
2,257
2,156
113
PSU, OSU, Mich, and USC would never play on Prime

The 2nd tier programs: Ore, Wash, MSU, Wisky, Iowa, Neb, etc would play on Prime 1-2 times per season is my guess

The lower tier programs would play on Prime 3-4 times per season. So if you are a Rutgers, NW, Indiana, or Stanford fan, for example, you'd need Prime.
But your thought would involve exclusive broadcasting for each game via amazon announcers. That won’t happen and Al Michaels and Herbie won’t be traipsing around college games to be the announcers. Right now Prime will broadcast baseball games that are the home team or away team broadcast. So, prime would need to tap into a broadcast that is already going.

And Amazon isn‘t a second or third rate streamer. They are second largest streamer, almost 8 times larger than Peacock. They have a large Johnson in the room and are not settling for Rutgers-Indiana.

Now I did read that they are working with Nielsen ratings on an exclusive measurement for number of eyes on the Thursday night football so they can charge advertisers accordingly.

Hard for me to imagine Amazon wanting to take a back seat to the other broadcasters of the Big Ten.

If you wanted to get your foot in the door the better play would be to go after the ACC or Big Twelve and force yourself into that as a player for the future of college sports.
 
  • Like
Reactions: rooster75

DruidTM

Heisman Candidate
Oct 26, 2012
7,484
4,062
113
I gotta say it… this aspect of college football is simply the lamest, no one gives a shit (outside of a few people who benefit from it) aspect of the entire game around… probably even worse than NIL… it destroys regional rivalries and creates in *certain fanbases* an artificial chest beating aspect based on nothing but again self perpetuating look at me lameness and dollar signs. It’s weak and the BG 10! is absolutely the worst offender here. It’s a contrived “power” move…worthy of dog vomit. It’s a big overgrown flatulence of an “idea”… clear the room folks the Big 10 farted again… give me a Break already

I couldn’t care less about it. It’s wrecking college football.


On to other scheduled programming already in progress
 

MarshallGoldberg

All Conference
Oct 23, 2017
5,351
3,261
113
This is my thought.
Yeah they produced a lot of small time TV shows like Betas etc before they made the most expensive TV show of all time, The Rings of Power. I could totally see Amazon grab up some small TV rights in the short run to get practice at producing sports programming then going big for the SEC or the Olympics or Super Bowl or whatever down the road.
 
Mar 3, 2022
3,686
2,225
113
I gotta say it… this aspect of college football is simply the lamest, no one gives a shit (outside of a few people who benefit from it) aspect of the entire game around… probably even worse than NIL… it destroys regional rivalries and creates in *certain fanbases* an artificial chest beating aspect based on nothing but again self perpetuating look at me lameness and dollar signs. It’s weak and the BG 10! is absolutely the worst offender here. It’s a contrived “power” move…worthy of dog vomit. It’s a big overgrown flatulence of an “idea”… clear the room folks the Big 10 farted again… give me a Break already

I couldn’t care less about it. It’s wrecking college football.


On to other scheduled programming already in progress
Yeah. It was why I held the fantasy/delusion that we could make a true playoff run this season, because we’re almost certainly in the last couple ‘normal’ years. The sport is going to hell in a handbasket, and sooner than we realize, we’ll be totally frozen out (vs. only MOSTLY frozen out as we are now). Throw “2024 playoff expansion” or “2035 GOR” or whatever else you want in my face, I’ve no faith in anything in place today on paper that will supposedly protect against the seismic changes that are in motion. If there is considered to be enough money at stake, legal agreements have buyouts and loopholes left in for a reason. I’ve no delusions that Pitt is going to fight to stay in; we’ll likely be very happy to take our payout to leave quietly. We rent our football stadium for a a reason, folks.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DruidTM

recruitsreadtheseboards

Lair Hall of Famer
Gold Member
Jun 11, 2006
85,037
74,038
113
On a semi related note.......since the NFL has sold Thursday Night Football to Amazon, there is a definite void. I am not sure what the WVU/VT game drew against the Steelers, but someone like the ACC should approach ESPN about putting on a Thursday night game again. Because America wants to watch football on Thursday nights, and I am still not sure how Amazon's TV "reaches" folks.
 

Duneaux Harm

Sophomore
Nov 30, 2020
2,257
2,156
113
Yeah they produced a lot of small time TV shows like Betas etc before they made the most expensive TV show of all time, The Rings of Power. I could totally see Amazon grab up some small TV rights in the short run to get practice at producing sports programming then going big for the SEC or the Olympics or Super Bowl or whatever down the road.
They don’t need practice. They do sports all throughout the world. This isn’t a start up.
 

Sean Miller Fan

Lair Hall of Famer
Oct 30, 2001
55,713
17,105
113
But your thought would involve exclusive broadcasting for each game via amazon announcers. That won’t happen and Al Michaels and Herbie won’t be traipsing around college games to be the announcers. Right now Prime will broadcast baseball games that are the home team or away team broadcast. So, prime would need to tap into a broadcast that is already going.

And Amazon isn‘t a second or third rate streamer. They are second largest streamer, almost 8 times larger than Peacock. They have a large Johnson in the room and are not settling for Rutgers-Indiana.

Now I did read that they are working with Nielsen ratings on an exclusive measurement for number of eyes on the Thursday night football so they can charge advertisers accordingly.

Hard for me to imagine Amazon wanting to take a back seat to the other broadcasters of the Big Ten.

If you wanted to get your foot in the door the better play would be to go after the ACC or Big Twelve and force yourself into that as a player for the future of college sports.
Surely, Amazon would hire a competent announcers for their Big Ten package.

And word is Amazon bid higher than CBS for their 3:30 package but the Big Ten went with CBS. If Amazon wants in, they may have to settle for Rutgers/Indiana.
 

Duneaux Harm

Sophomore
Nov 30, 2020
2,257
2,156
113
Surely, Amazon would hire a competent announcers for their Big Ten package.

And word is Amazon bid higher than CBS for their 3:30 package but the Big Ten went with CBS. If Amazon wants in, they may have to settle for Rutgers/Indiana.
I am only telling you what the model is for their other sports. Why would they break that pattern for third tier big ten games?
 

Sean Miller Fan

Lair Hall of Famer
Oct 30, 2001
55,713
17,105
113
I am only telling you what the model is for their other sports. Why would they break that pattern for third tier big ten games?
Because even a Rutgers/Indiana game gets a lot more viewers than a Thursday afternoon MLB game. Also, if they just used BTN announcers, who cares? I am sure the games would be branded as Prime with their own graphics and such.
 

Duneaux Harm

Sophomore
Nov 30, 2020
2,257
2,156
113
Because even a Rutgers/Indiana game gets a lot more viewers than a Thursday afternoon MLB game. Also, if they just used BTN announcers, who cares? I am sure the games would be branded as Prime with their own graphics and such.
Sigh. Don’t mix and match. The number of viewers will be fairly low. This isn’t the NFL and people won’t stream it as high as they would watch on Broadcast or cable. As to graphics I haven’t seen any different graphics.

I am not saying that it isn’t possible for this to happen, but not sure it’s a real boon for prime.
 

Ranson1989

Scholarship
Jun 15, 2018
302
238
43
how we gonna channel flip on Saturday afternoons using amazon prime to watch college games lol that's gonna get annoying