Buying or Selling
- Thread starter 9nationalchampionships
- Start date
I am buying that they will be a lot better. I expect Whitehead to have a big year. The other safety spot will be an upgrade. I think the CB's will be better as well.
We'll certainly know for sure after the PSU game on 9/9 and the Oklahoma State game on 9/16...
No doubt....two good QBs back to back. I do think Paris finds the lineup but later in the season. His abilities are too good to redshirt. I was hoping he could have enrolled early.
A team strength? Hopefully selling or the team is going to likely to be very bad.
Improved? Buying.
Improved? Buying.
I mean, there are only 3 defensive units: DL, LB, and DB. So, basically you are asking if the DBs will be our best D unit. I don't think any of the D position groups are likely to be great, so I guess that is possible, but unlikely.
Okay we can talk granularly. Of the three defensive groups I am saying that the DBs will be the best.
Gotcha. I think that is possible because I think we will be real bad at LB again, but we need the DL to be good and I don't think we have the talent ready at CB to be good at DB overall.
I think key is production of Exterior DL.
In most areas, filling gaps with more Athleticism will make up for in-experience.
Replacing Mitchell/Webb with more Athleticism. Whitehead/Ford/Stocker/Garner/Campbell... Upgrade.
Replacing Lewis with Athleticism and Size.... Upgrade
LB's - expecting Zeise, Wirginis, Brightwell, with Pine, McKee filling gaps, and Idowu as depth not relied on as starter. I don't agree with Jpripper..This group will not be real bad! The athleticism will be an Upgrade.
DT's - Kamp, Watts, Carter will add alot more athleticism to this area, and will see much more shooting gaps, vs. filling space. This could help the disruption that is needed up the middle. Will miss Jarrett as a stuffer, but overall Upgrade with Athleticism.
DE's - this is where we need to fill Price's production.... Hope Hendrix, not only stays healthy, but produces. and hope that the others step up, for consistent pressure. Who will step up... Without Pass Rush, DB's could still have a challenge... With a Pass Rush, DB's could excel....
Success of the DB's comes down to, not allowing them to be exposed for long periods of time... but Whitehead playing Centerfield could help.
In most areas, filling gaps with more Athleticism will make up for in-experience.
Replacing Mitchell/Webb with more Athleticism. Whitehead/Ford/Stocker/Garner/Campbell... Upgrade.
Replacing Lewis with Athleticism and Size.... Upgrade
LB's - expecting Zeise, Wirginis, Brightwell, with Pine, McKee filling gaps, and Idowu as depth not relied on as starter. I don't agree with Jpripper..This group will not be real bad! The athleticism will be an Upgrade.
DT's - Kamp, Watts, Carter will add alot more athleticism to this area, and will see much more shooting gaps, vs. filling space. This could help the disruption that is needed up the middle. Will miss Jarrett as a stuffer, but overall Upgrade with Athleticism.
DE's - this is where we need to fill Price's production.... Hope Hendrix, not only stays healthy, but produces. and hope that the others step up, for consistent pressure. Who will step up... Without Pass Rush, DB's could still have a challenge... With a Pass Rush, DB's could excel....
Success of the DB's comes down to, not allowing them to be exposed for long periods of time... but Whitehead playing Centerfield could help.
Upgraded DB's as discussed earlier will sure be nice and we need a major improvement in the LB area. Last year our LB's were 2-3 steps slow which is an eternity at that spot!
If our DB's and LB's are better things will be good!
I'll sure miss Jarrett "The Death Star" to clog up the middle like a turned over truck on 376 in rush hour!
I'll probably sell in that having them go from being one of the worst in the nation to being to rock of the defensive unit in one year means that the d-line and lbs are lacking.
Selling this season for sure. I feel our DL will be the best overall unit. The D as a whole should improve this year as our young talent gels in their roles.
its looking more and more like the same exact guys that got torched last year will be the ones playing again this year. all those DB's recruited in the last two years cannot beat out anyone in front of them and they are competing against guys who are not very good.
I'm renting with and option to buy.
This is the scary thing. What is the reason for the hopeful posture at DB? We saw the same guys struggle all year and in a lot of ways get worse, but now this year they are supposed to become the strength of the defense? I don't see it, unless the expectation is Ford will be transformative back there and even then, he can't cover for both CBs at the same time.
I agree. I think safety will be much better and the guys who took some lumps last year at CB should be better. I'll add that the LBs should be faster and more athletic which should help coverage. Also, the DL should be better which will help the secondary.
Good point about the DT. I think Taleni will continue to perform really well, especially since he will be the main man in the middle. To say he was disruptive when he was in the game last year would be an understatement.
Selling. The scheme might have worked in the Fat10 but not the ACC.
Think I'm wrong? Ponder this:
Nov 2016: Pitt 43 - Clemson 42 @ "Death Valley"
Jan 1, 2017: Clemson 34 - Ohio State 0 @ neutral field
Until Narduzzi changes his philosophy on D, I'm selling.
This wouldn't just be a casual improvement. As bad as some of the mid 90's defenses were, last season was the worst. Most of that is the scheme being predicated on a ferocious pass rush, and until there's proof that this will be better, and I mean like, 300% better (turning every pass play into an immediate Chinese fire drill in the backfield), there is little faith to base that the DB will suddenly be able to clamp down this year. We simply have to hope that the new OC can come close to what Canada was able to produce.
Having more good players to man the DL ( alternating to keep them fresh) and athletic LBs to make plays more than 3 yards in either direction, should help the DBs out tremendously.
I'm not sure I understand this mindset. Our DL is a huge question mark this year. The hopeful best player is a guy who is 4 years removed from HS and has a whopping 2 career tackles and 0 at Pitt. We lost 3 starters on the DL, including a 2nd team AA.
I think a lot of it is with camp/watts, Taleni has gotten some great reviews from the staff and we have that Carter dude coming. I think Jarrett will be a big loss but overall, I don't think its crazy to believe our interior line will be better overall than last..
but I get your point, we are basing a lot of this on very unproved and inexperienced players, FAR from a given.
I'm selling until proven otherwise. Last year, the DB's were simply horrific. I believe this unit will be improved (how could they not improve?), but to say they will be a strength is a stretch. We still have Maddox on one corner, who has proven that he is always in position to NOT make a play and the other corner will be an unproven starter. Whitehead should be back strong and the other safety will be better then Webb even if he's playing with a broken leg. All of this adds up to improvement, but not necessarily strength.
Cruzer
This group, while not spectacular, is certainly deep enough to keep 4 guys fresh....IMO
Hendrix
Camp
Watts
Carter
Weaver
Pugh
Folston
Wheeler
Edwards
Blair
Taleni
Hendrix
Camp
Watts
Carter
Weaver
Pugh
Folston
Wheeler
Edwards
Blair
Taleni
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I'll say this. The scheme did them no favors. But achingly, so very often they seemed to be ON their guy. Yet 99 out of 100 times they were using bad technique and/or were somehow seemingly oblivious to the play happening. Dane Jackson in particular. Seemed right there on so many plays, if he even just moved his HEAD a bit his HEAD would have broken up the pass. Yet he could have been wearing ear pods listening to The Weeknd, he seemed so oblivious to what was going on. But again, he seemed right there...so it doesn't appear to be a physical impossibility. So perhaps there's hope that improved and sustained coaching (and just more coachable players, period) will pay bigger dividends.
Most of those guys will barely play. Some of them will not play at all. We lost our 3 best DL. The guy we need to be the best DL is going into his 4th year and has 2 career tackles. That is a lot of hope and prayer to expect (of course it is everyone's ideal) they will not only be better, but be deeper.
There are 11 players listed.. There will be 2 deep for 4 positions on the DL, but yet you say "most will not Play, and some not at all".... Please give me a list of your 2 deep...?
Also, many people panicked when Tyler Boyd left, because we a had a group of in-experienced WR's.. Well it turned out that the overall group became more productive... Sure Price and Jarrett will be missed, but the potential for more Athleticism is what people are looking at... There is potential in that list... And without teams focusing on 1 standout, the overall group could become more productive...
that's college football JRip, players leave, graduate, etc.. that happens. college football teams will always HAVE to depend on younger and inexperienced players to produce, no team will ever have a full, experienced roster coming back. it just doesn't happen in college football. we will depend on younger, inexperienced players and if they pan out and produce, we'll be good and if they don't, we wont. it's really a quite simple outlook with college football year in and year out.
The issue isn't that (of course) you will have to replace guys every year, but that we have to replace our 3 best players and the guy with the best potential and who needs to be our best player is going into year 4 with essentially 0 experience. Of the other guys who have played, only 1 (Taleni) has shown to potentially be a starter we shouldn't be too worried about. The rest are either complete question marks or guys who have looked pretty average. Despite that, there is the expectation the unit, which was (BY FAR) our best unit last year, will be better. That is pretty darn lofty. I think if we were discussing any of our opponents and they lost what we did on the DL and were returning what we are on the DL, we would be saying the unit would be expected to take a big step back.
Yes, because very, very rarely are we (or any team save a couple) going to actually rotate in through the whole two deep, save blowouts or a couple breathers a game. Mostly we will see a rotation of 3 DEs and 3 DTs with basically no one else playing impactful snaps. Certainly nowhere near 10 or 11 players will get meaningful snaps unless we have the worst injury situation in the country.
How would teams not having to focus on 1 great player, make the group more productive? That doesn't make sense. If teams are overly focused on one standout player, that means the others should have more freedom to make plays. If the focus is spread around, there is less freedom for those other players and thus less production from those players. Beyond that, it isn't us just replacing 1 great player, but we are replacing 1 great player and 2 other very good SR DTs.
We could have a better DL. It is unbelievably unlikely, but it could happen. However, we are replacing a AA and two SR DTs, who were productive and impactful. We return one DT (Taleni) with experience who looked like a good player. We return 1 DE (Blair) with experience who has looked like a very average player, who should probably be a 3rd or 4th DE on a good DL. We return 1 DE (Hendrix) who seemingly has very good potential, but who is going into his 4th season and has essentially 0 experience. The rest of the unit is either very pedestrian in their time so far or very green and mostly average recruits.
DBs will be better -- how could they not be?
At CB, the guys are apparently learning to turn their heads. Duh. Why this didn't happen last year is a major mystery.
The encouraging thing is that so many times last year, guys were right on their man, but the WR was looking at the ball and the CB wasn't; win for the WR. Getting them to turn and locate the ball may not be as easy as it sounds, but it does seem fixable. If our problem was that guys couldn't stay with their man, it would be more hopeless.
At safety, I think we will see a significant improvement. Moving Whitehead to FS, where there are greater coverage responsibilities, will be huge. Whitehead for Webb? Huge upgrade -- we go from being weak to being strong at the position.
At SS, vacated by Whitehead's move, this year we'll have young guys who can play the position -- Garner, Campbell, Stocker, and then Ford.
So, yes, it will be better, no question. How good? We'll see.
At CB, the guys are apparently learning to turn their heads. Duh. Why this didn't happen last year is a major mystery.
The encouraging thing is that so many times last year, guys were right on their man, but the WR was looking at the ball and the CB wasn't; win for the WR. Getting them to turn and locate the ball may not be as easy as it sounds, but it does seem fixable. If our problem was that guys couldn't stay with their man, it would be more hopeless.
At safety, I think we will see a significant improvement. Moving Whitehead to FS, where there are greater coverage responsibilities, will be huge. Whitehead for Webb? Huge upgrade -- we go from being weak to being strong at the position.
At SS, vacated by Whitehead's move, this year we'll have young guys who can play the position -- Garner, Campbell, Stocker, and then Ford.
So, yes, it will be better, no question. How good? We'll see.
If our DB's go from what they were last year, to an actual strength, in the span of 1 off season, with pretty much the same players, well then I think an automatic induction into the College football hall of fame is in order..
Lewis, Webb, and Mitchell are all gone. When Whitehead got injured and was out for the last 4 games, these three were often on the field at the same time, comprising 3/4ths of our defensive backfield. So I wouldn't agree that these are pretty much the same players.
And Whitehead is back, but is changing positions. So quite a bit will be different personnel wise.
Experience is lost with their departures, but better talent is stepping in.
And Whitehead is back, but is changing positions. So quite a bit will be different personnel wise.
Experience is lost with their departures, but better talent is stepping in.
Price will be tough to replace, but the other two won't. They have a ton of young athletes on the DL.
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