Capel player transfers and his failure

[cease10]

I think the biggest cause to Capel's failure is the amount of players he had transferred.....his own recruits.

I'm just wondering everyone's thoughts and why Capel couldn't keep his recruits.

Could he not manage egos?
Did he recruit bad team players?
Bad staff?

Any ideas?

 

[TIGER-PAUL]

I'll guess, just like him, they knew little about Pitt (and/or him) when they signed on and got a kick in the nuts to start.

 

[tps48]

I think the biggest cause to Capel's failure is the amount of players he had transferred.....his own recruits.

I'm just wondering everyone's thoughts and why Capel couldn't keep his recruits.

Could he not manage egos?
Did he recruit bad team players?
Bad staff?

Any ideas?

Doesn't really matter. What matters is that Capel can't build a good team.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

I think the biggest cause to Capel's failure is the amount of players he had transferred.....his own recruits.

I'm just wondering everyone's thoughts and why Capel couldn't keep his recruits.

Could he not manage egos?
Did he recruit bad team players?
Bad staff?

Any ideas?

Read my post on coaches below and Tom Crean. The exact same thing, exact same thing, happened to him.

 

[cease10]

I'll guess, just like him, they knew little about Pitt (and/or him) when they signed on and got a kick in the nuts to start.

Many of these guys were like 2-3 yrs in the program though. It wasn't like they were leaving after there 1st yrs.

 

[cease10]

Read my post on coaches below and Tom Crean. The exact same thing, exact same thing, happened to him.

Your post was a bit long winded.

I agree that this generation of kids are nomadic, but I think Capel had a bigger problem due to the amount and stature of players that he was losing. He just wasn't losing players because of playing time. He was losing multiple starting players and I think it points to a bigger issue.

It may be his coaching style (x and o) as you say, but I really don't know. That's why I'm asking.

 

[cease10]

Doesn't really matter. What matters is that Capel can't build a good team.

Yeah, it matters. Cause whether Capel is gone this year or not. Pitt needs to learn from this experience.

Is Lyke addressing his specific failures and Capel learning from them. I think she's done this with Narduzzi and hope the same is being done with Capel. We just need to see tangible results.

 

[sonofabit]

I think the biggest cause to Capel's failure is the amount of players he had transferred.....his own recruits.

I'm just wondering everyone's thoughts and why Capel couldn't keep his recruits.

Could he not manage egos?
Did he recruit bad team players?
Bad staff?

Any ideas?

Fair question. I think Capel actually has accumulated some nice pieces IF all were put together you’d like your chances. But all programs have guys turning pro, guys getting injured, and guys transferring out. Alarming that it caught him by surprise based on his backup plans for Champ going pro, guards being injured, and guys transferring out. It was a perfect storm the way everything happened at once. Then add questionable gameday coaching. Yoi.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Your post was a bit long winded.

I agree that this generation of kids are nomadic, but I think Capel had a bigger problem due to the amount and stature of players that he was losing. He just wasn't losing players because of playing time. He was losing multiple starting players and I think it points to a bigger issue.

It may be his coaching style (x and o) as you say, but I really don't know. That's why I'm asking.

But it showed exactly the same issues facing Georgia that is facing us. Including the fact they have no recruits committed for next year either.

 

[Gunga_Galunga]

2018
Johnson - transfer
Toney - transfer
McGowens -transfer

2019
Murphy - transfer
Champagnie
Coulibaly - transfer
Drumgoole - transfer

2020
Jeffress
Odukale
Hugley
Amadasun
Collier

2021
Santos

2022
Nobody

I think we'll see at least 2 of the 2020 guys transfer. Frankly, it looks like they gave up recruiting HS kids because they feel it's too hard to keep them around. That would be fine if they seemed active and adept at getting kids in the portal, but they haven't been.

Why all the transfers? I think it comes back to losing games and a coach that isn't getting kids to buy in. Buy in means how they play and wanting to be part of the program. Transfers are different in this respect because they've already been through it with another team and left.

 

[cease10]

I think Capel actually has accumulated some nice pieces IF all were put together you’d like your chances.

Agreed, I think if he keeps at least 2 players in each of his recruiting classes, then Pitt should have been considered a tournament contender by last year.

However, he had entire recruiting classes transferring out and that has to be considered more than bad luck. Capel needed to have figured out the root cause to that problem like a year or two ago.

 

[cease10]

2018
Johnson - transfer
Toney - transfer
McGowens -transfer

2019
Murphy - transfer
Champagnie
Coulibaly - transfer
Drumgoole - transfer

2020
Jeffress
Odukale
Hugley
Amadasun
Collier

2021
Santos

2022
Nobody

I think we'll see at least 2 of the 2020 guys transfer. Frankly, it looks like they gave up recruiting HS kids because they feel it's too hard to keep them around. That would be fine if they seemed active and adept at getting kids in the portal, but they haven't been.

Why all the transfers? I think it comes back to losing games and a coach that isn't getting kids to buy in. Buy in means how they play and wanting to be part of the program. Transfers are different in this respect because they've already been through it with another team and left.

Good points. Losing the 2018 class was very concerning because I felt they were all talented and a good foundation to build on talent wise.

 

[cease10]

But it showed exactly the same issues facing Georgia that is facing us. Including the fact they have no recruits committed for next year either.

Agreed that both programs facing the same issues, but I think it's bigger than kids just leaving because they could.

Coaches shouldn't be having their entire recruiting class transfer out after a year or two. Maybe, I'm only school but I think there's a bigger problem if a coach can't keep at least 1 or 2 players. And I'm not counting NBA Players, just transfers only.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

Well, we were on track to turn this thing around. Had we returned Johnson and Toney this year, to go along with Hugley, and possibly even Champagnie, we're a tournament team.

The problem is we recruited those guys because Capel was new here and we were still selling hope. So he'll probably not be able to recruit at that level again. Whatever the reason for the mass exodus (his team management, bad luck, or whatever else), the fact remains that we had our chance and didn't get it done. So it's now to a point where I'm thinking our only chance to right this ship will be to once again have hope (i.e. a new coach) to sell.

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

I think the biggest cause to Capel's failure is the amount of players he had transferred.....his own recruits.

I'm just wondering everyone's thoughts and why Capel couldn't keep his recruits.

Could he not manage egos?
Did he recruit bad team players?
Bad staff?

Any ideas?

we've covered why these guys left. its been discussed on here in pretty good detail. if you missed the story, it's well worth it to go back and look thru some threads on the topic.

 

[sonofabit]

Well, we were on track to turn this thing around. Had we returned Johnson and Toney this year, to go along with Hugley, and possibly even Champagnie, we're a tournament team.

The problem is we recruited those guys because Capel was new here and we were still selling hope. So he'll probably not be able to recruit at that level again. Whatever the reason for the mass exodus (his team management, bad luck, or whatever else), the fact remains that we had our chance and didn't get it done. So it's now to a point where I'm thinking our only chance to right this ship will be to once again have hope (i.e. a new coach) to sell.

Well we can eliminate Oakland as a “minus” in retaining and/or signing players. Just look at the destinations of those who opted out. Has to be the staff. No?

 

[Pitt79]

Many of these guys were like 2-3 yrs in the program though. It wasn't like they were leaving after there 1st yrs.

If it was just one guy, or even 2, I might think the player was a bad seed. But when it's multiple guys, who got monster minutes of playing time for an ACC team, I have to wonder why you can't stay and finish out a year or two? Maybe the environment there isn't good, or why do so many leave? It's not guys riding the bench disgruntled wishing they could play.

 

[cease10]

Well, we were on track to turn this thing around. Had we returned Johnson and Toney this year, to go along with Hugley, and possibly even Champagnie, we're a tournament team.

The problem is we recruited those guys because Capel was new here and we were still selling hope. So he'll probably not be able to recruit at that level again. Whatever the reason for the mass exodus (his team management, bad luck, or whatever else), the fact remains that we had our chance and didn't get it done. So it's now to a point where I'm thinking our only chance to right this ship will be to once again have hope (i.e. a new coach) to sell.

There's always a chance to sell hope. Capel just needs to figure out how to retain players.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

There's always a chance to sell hope. Capel just needs to figure out how to retain players.

Not after three years of sucking. We're pretty much limited to mid-major guys who want to transfer into a power conference and Nate Santos-caliber high school recruits at this point. I don't see any more top 100 guys joining this mess (besides the ones who commit for a few months and then flip).

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

2018
Johnson - transfer
Toney - transfer
McGowens -transfer

2019
Murphy - transfer
Champagnie
Coulibaly - transfer
Drumgoole - transfer

2020
Jeffress
Odukale
Hugley
Amadasun
Collier

2021
Santos

2022
Nobody

I think we'll see at least 2 of the 2020 guys transfer. Frankly, it looks like they gave up recruiting HS kids because they feel it's too hard to keep them around. That would be fine if they seemed active and adept at getting kids in the portal, but they haven't been.

Why all the transfers? I think it comes back to losing games and a coach that isn't getting kids to buy in. Buy in means how they play and wanting to be part of the program. Transfers are different in this respect because they've already been through it with another team and left.

It really doesn't make sense to recruit HS players anymore unless you can get a guy who can help immediately. 50% of all HS recruits will transfer so what's the point?

Capel's 1st full class was his undoing. If you could point to 1 thing that caused his failure here, it was his first full recruiting class when he should have been able to sell his vision.

 

[cease10]

If it was just one guy, or even 2, I might think the player was a bad seed. But when it's multiple guys, who got monster minutes of playing time for an ACC team, I have to wonder why you can't stay and finish out a year or two? Maybe the environment there isn't good, or why do so many leave? It's not guys riding the bench disgruntled wishing they could play.

That's my point. If you lose an entire class like that, then that falls on the coach. Something is definitely wrong.

 

[gary2]

2018
Johnson - transfer
Toney - transfer
McGowens -transfer

2019
Murphy - transfer
Champagnie
Coulibaly - transfer
Drumgoole - transfer

2020
Jeffress
Odukale
Hugley
Amadasun
Collier

2021
Santos

2022
Nobody

I think we'll see at least 2 of the 2020 guys transfer. Frankly, it looks like they gave up recruiting HS kids because they feel it's too hard to keep them around. That would be fine if they seemed active and adept at getting kids in the portal, but they haven't been.

Why all the transfers? I think it comes back to losing games and a coach that isn't getting kids to buy in. Buy in means how they play and wanting to be part of the program. Transfers are different in this respect because they've already been through it with another team and left.

Everyone who has yet to transfer, may transfer

 

[gary2]

we've covered why these guys left. its been discussed on here in pretty good detail. if you missed the story, it's well worth it to go back and look thru some threads on the topic.

They left because they wanted to go, No other explanation needed or necessary.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Everyone who has yet to transfer, may transfer

Yea but we only have 5 players (Hugley, Femi, Burton, Sibande, Horton) who matter for next year. Truthfully, some of those guys may be "asked" to transfer.

 

[gary2]

Yea but we only have 5 players (Hugley, Femi, Burton, Sibande, Horton) who matter for next year. Truthfully, some of those guys may be "asked" to transfer.

I think Hugley and Odukale are included in they all might transfer.

Hugley is as good as gone without the Capel NIL Deal

 

[docpanther26]

You can't "ask" guys to transfer with NOBODY coming in.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

I think Hugley and Odukale are included in they all might transfer.

Hugley is as good as gone without the Capel NIL Deal

PharmaBro thinks he's only worth 10K-25K worth on the market and if that's true, Pitt could easily match that.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

Into todays college bb unless you can really get freshman that are ready to step in and contribute, why bother ?
When’s a freshman big come in and be as productive as Mo and is Pitt somewhere that level of recruit is even considering ? ( Adams who was a gift is the answer ) The same can be said for Burton , Pitts not getting freshman with his skills unless he slips through the cracks . I’d rather see him target guys like Mintz and if he fails go into the portal to fill his roster . The success of Mo and Burton should make it easier for him this yr if he’s retained . Once Pitt has a roster that can compete then taking a couple of freshman that need developing makes sense . ( if they are willing to stick around ! )

 

[gary2]

PharmaBro thinks he's only worth 10K-25K worth on the market and if that's true, Pitt could easily match that.

When has PharmBro ever been right about anything? And, due to our situation, we will obviously have to over pay.

 

[Pitt Portal]

Into todays college bb unless you can really get freshman that are ready to step in and contribute, why bother ?
When’s a freshman big come in and be as productive as Mo and is Pitt somewhere that level of recruit is even considering ? ( Adams who was a gift is the answer ) The same can be said for Burton , Pitts not getting freshman with his skills unless he slips through the cracks . I’d rather see him target guys like Mintz and if he fails go into the portal to fill his roster . The success of Mo and Burton should make it easier for him this yr if he’s retained . Once Pitt has a roster that can compete then taking a couple of freshman that need developing makes sense . ( if they are willing to stick around ! )

What Success?? With Burton and Mo level players, we are a Bottom Feeder ACC Team..

You are ****ing Clueless

 

[Fsgolfdr]

What Success?? With Burton and Mo level players, we are a Bottom Feeder ACC Team..

You are ****ing Clueless

Mr Pitt Pottie
Coming from such an expert like yourself whose constantly changing his handle because he’s just so full of sh.t this really hurts .

Had Nike and Horton been available this yrs team would’ve been the second best ACC team Pitts had behind JDs first yr in the conference.

 

[TheSpecialSauce]

Mr Pitt Pottie
Coming from such an expert like yourself whose constantly changing his handle because he’s just so full of sh.t this really hurts .

Had Nike and Horton been available this yrs team would’ve been the second best ACC team Pitts had behind JDs first yr in the conference.

1) Every team has injuries and/or transfers. Excuses are for losers.

2) Even if we had Horton and Sibande, then it is an NIT team at best.

 

[gary2]

1) Every team has injuries and/or transfers. Excuses are for losers.

2) Even if we had Horton and Sibande, then it is an NIT team at best.

True dat

 

[Fsgolfdr]

1) Every team has injuries and/or transfers. Excuses are for losers.

2) Even if we had Horton and Sibande, then it is an NIT team at best.

Things happen in sports all the time with injuries and while it’s an excuse it’s also a fact . There aren’t many teams in the country that could lose 2 starters ( especially the two that could shoot the 3 and open the court up for Hugley ) and have it not effect the results on the court .

With the ACC this yr they’d have a shot at the NCAAs and an by the way an NIT appearance would have been their best result in 6 yrs .

 

[gary2]

Things happen in sports all the time with injuries and while it’s an excuse it’s also a fact . There aren’t many teams in the country that could lose 2 starters ( especially the two that could shoot the 3 and open the court up for Hugley ) and have it not effect the results on the court .

With the ACC this yr they’d have a shot at the NCAAs and an by the way an NIT appearance would have been their best result in 6 yrs .

You are what your record says you are

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

They left because they wanted to go, No other explanation needed or necessary.

yeah but the story is much better than that. on why they wanted to go.

 

[Franb]

yeah but the story is much better than that. on why they wanted to go.

And many on here we’re glad to see some of them go. There were clearly issues of team chemistry, and how much of that is on the coaches or was inevitable is a mystery.

 

[gary2]

And many on here we’re glad to see some of them go. There were clearly issues of team chemistry, and how much of that is on the coaches or was inevitable is a mystery.

Not a mystery to me

2018
Johnson - transfer
Toney - transfer
McGowens -transfer

2019
Murphy - transfer
Champagnie
Coulibaly - transfer
Drumgoole - transfer

2020
Jeffress
Odukale
Hugley
Amadasun
Collier

2021
Santos

2022
Nobody

I think we'll see at least 2 of the 2020 guys transfer. Frankly, it looks like they gave up recruiting HS kids because they feel it's too hard to keep them around. That would be fine if they seemed active and adept at getting kids in the portal, but they haven't been.

Why all the transfers? I think it comes back to losing games and a coach that isn't getting kids to buy in. Buy in means how they play and wanting to be part of the program. Transfers are different in this respect because they've already been through it with another team and left.

 

[gary2]

yeah but the story is much better than that. on why they wanted to go.

Cry me a river

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[Franb]

Not a mystery to me

How do you know what was behind these transfers, and by that I do not mean speculation?