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Changing how rankings occur for 2021

Saboteur II

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Sep 21, 2020
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It will never happen because there is too much "drama" involved but I want to see the following changed for 2021 and I'll prove why we know it will work.

1. No team can be eligible to be ranked unless and until they have played 4 games with at least 2 genuine away games against P6 teams, and
2. Every voter who ranked the top 25 for 2020 needs to be judged on how well they did. For example, people who ranked PSU and Michigan anywhere near the top 15 need to be put on a year's probation. Then they vote in a ghost poll for the following year and their efforts are judged against actual results. If they don't rise to the top 25% of their voting peers they are out for the following year and must vote in a ghost poll for two years and achieve some high mark to be restored to good graces.

Here is why it matters:

1. Money. Pre-season rankings are pole positions for cfb and cfb is all about money. If it were not about money then PSU could play Pitt, the P5 would be the P6 and games would be shown on PBS.
2. Covid has exposed the home field advantage as being worth quite a bit. Absent the persuasive chant of 100,000 Ohio State looked to be vulnerable against an under rated IU team ( I love their HC and their QB and WR Fryfogle are NFL talents), PSU has been exposed (pun intended) as a fraud and even the Florida Gators lose points. The NFL is a tougher league in part because there aren't any favored few who get to play games at home virtually every week.
3. CFB is going broke and Dabo Sweeney took a much needed shot at FSU this week for costing his program tons of money. Put aside Dabo's compensation package for a moment and he is right. Would FSU have balked if they had flown, fed, watered and hosteled their team instead of sitting at home? Me thinks "not". I think teams like UMASS will fold their tents and like it or not, the UMASS's of the world are needed.
4. UC now, UCF recently and soon to be others are showing that the talent gap between teams 5 on down is not that wide. Passing off a team as being unworthy because of their conference affiliation is how lazy sports writers work. Coastal Carolina is no fluke and if you look at the NFL rosters you might wonder why the Big Ten is enjoys its status. Take Ohio State out of the equation for a moment and see how "elite" that conference really isn't.

One gripe against CFB has been the absence of a true national champion. The 4 team playoff is a baby step toward legitimizing the charade the P5 teams hold over cfb. Perception does not meet reality and if you want the Ron Cook's of the world leading that parade, then you'll get what you ask for. Just ask Larry Fitz.
 
I hear ya. Penn State was NOT a top 10 team coming into this season, especially with Parsons opting out and a new OC who couldn't even work with his team outside of zoom. Penn State was a top 10 because they are Penn State.

I can give you the preseason top 10 for the year 2025.
Alabama. Clemson. Notre Dame. Oklahoma. Georgia. LSU. Ohio State. PSU/Michigan. Florida. USC.

And I bet I get at least 7 of the 10 right. And that is 5 years from now.
 
Coastal Carolina is no fluke and if you look at the NFL rosters you might wonder why the Big Ten is enjoys its status. Take Ohio State out of the equation for a moment and see how "elite" that conference really isn't.
I also think the Big 10 is normally overrated year in and year out, but I'm pretty sure the Big 10 only trails the SEC in terms of numbers of alums playing in NFL. You're right that OSU probably has a lot to do with it, and part of it is because the Big 10 and SEC have 14 schools (as well as the ACC), whereas Pac 12 only has a dozen teams and Big 12 only has ten, so naturally Big 10 will have more than Pac 12 and Big 12. But still, I'm pretty sure Big 10 has more NFL players than the ACC.
 
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I also think the Big 10 is normally overrated year in and year out, but I'm pretty sure the Big 10 only trails the SEC in terms of numbers of alums playing in NFL. You're right that OSU probably has a lot to do with it, and part of it is because the Big 10 and SEC have 14 schools (as well as the ACC), whereas Pac 12 only has a dozen teams and Big 12 only has ten, so naturally Big 10 will have more than Pac 12 and Big 12. But still, I'm pretty sure Big 10 has more NFL players than the ACC.
You're right though I did not take Ohio State out of the equation because....
SEC348
Big Ten264
ACC208
Pac-12195
Big 12133
American94
C-USA75
Mountain West70
Independent51
MAC39
Sun Belt24
 
why do early rankings bother people so much? once games start happening, things work themselves out.
 
why do early rankings bother people so much? once games start happening, things work themselves out.
I think some guy named Newton said it best. "Objects at rest tend to stay at rest, and objects in motion tend to stay in motion."

It's much harder to break into the top 25 than it is to drop out of the top 25.

Also, the number one reason is all of the free publicity teams in the top 25 get. They are talked about on every sports program; scores shown at the bottom of every game; highlights shown; etc.....
 
I think some guy named Newton said it best. "Objects at rest tend to stay at rest, and objects in motion tend to stay in motion."

It's much harder to break into the top 25 than it is to drop out of the top 25.

Also, the number one reason is all of the free publicity teams in the top 25 get. They are talked about on every sports program; scores shown at the bottom of every game; highlights shown; etc.....
ok but after 75% of the season, arent teams in their rightful place? I get it, early on, a team like psu needs a few losses to get out, and vice versa but by the time november comes around (in a normal season), this all works itself out.

it's like those people on espn talking about how there could be 8 undefeated teams all deserving of a playoff spot and how much of a disaster it would be and we have to change the system. i laugh guys in 3 weeks, teams lose and the cream rises to the top and miraculously, the top 4 deserving teams are in the playoffs..
 
ok but after 75% of the season, arent teams in their rightful place? I get it, early on, a team like psu needs a few losses to get out, and vice versa but by the time november comes around (in a normal season), this all works itself out.

it's like those people on espn talking about how there could be 8 undefeated teams all deserving of a playoff spot and how much of a disaster it would be and we have to change the system. i laugh guys in 3 weeks, teams lose and the cream rises to the top and miraculously, the top 4 deserving teams are in the playoffs..
You just talked yourself into starting the polls in week 5, right?

It's the early on popularity contest polls we're talking about. The "early" rankings, be it pre-season, or the first couple of weeks that are simply guesses that greatly benefit those in the conversation are rightfully being questioned.
 
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You just talked yourself into starting the polls in week 5, right?

It's the early on popularity contest polls we're talking about. The "early" rankings, be it pre-season, or the first couple of weeks that are simply guesses that greatly benefit those in the conversation are rightfully being questioned.
not really. i just explained how these rankings arent really that big of a deal and are irrelevant to anyone except fans. they are a moving, fluid thing, for entertainment purposes only things get worked out when the rankings start to matter..

Of course fans argue about it, that's what makes them fun. Can you imagine how much would be taken away if there were no rankings in september and half of october? It'd suck.. People like to argue and debate it, it's what makes college football interesting..

they are guesses but no, they dont greatly benefit anyone. you still got to win or you'll be out of it. look at psu, look at michigan. they were ranked, they suck and now they are not. how did they benefit from it?
 
why do early rankings bother people so much? once games start happening, things work themselves out.
Pole position.....if it weren't important no one would try. The higher you start out the less the fall from grace when you lose. Recall that Ohio State lost to an unranked and non spectacular VT team when it won the NC a few years back.
 
Except I think it does help those teams who are constantly voted in the early polls who don't deserve to be there.

I'm not suggesting that it will ever change, mainly for the reasons you stated, I just don't think there aren't consequences and unjustified benefits to the more popular teams early on.
 
why do early rankings bother people so much? once games start happening, things work themselves out.
Not really. Take a team like Wisky, in the Big 10 West. They usually have a "soff" OOC schedule, and if they avoid Ohio State, they start out say ranked #10, go 11-1, finish ranked #7 with really having not stronger of a schedule than say Brigham Young, though because teams like Michigan and Nebraska were ranked and have 3-4 losses each.

It certainly does matter. Look at those years (as few as they are) where Pitt starts out un ranked, it takes almost a 5-1 start to get in the polls, meanwhile, some slough Michigan State team is 3-2, but still ranked 21 because they started out at #12 in the polls.
 
Not really. Take a team like Wisky, in the Big 10 West. They usually have a "soff" OOC schedule, and if they avoid Ohio State, they start out say ranked #10, go 11-1, finish ranked #7 with really having not stronger of a schedule than say Brigham Young, though because teams like Michigan and Nebraska were ranked and have 3-4 losses each.

It certainly does matter. Look at those years (as few as they are) where Pitt starts out un ranked, it takes almost a 5-1 start to get in the polls, meanwhile, some slough Michigan State team is 3-2, but still ranked 21 because they started out at #12 in the polls.
P5 teams get the benefit of the doubt on the rankings. a P5 team goes thru a soft schedule undefeated, they'll be highly ranked. not sure how that has anything to do with rankings in september.

guys, point is, you cant get rid of college football rankings, it's an entity for cryin out loud. you get rid of it, you'll have espn/cbs/fox sports putting out unofficial rankings and every sports bloggers doing the same. we need it, we as fans demand it. so the coaches dont have a poll, every other sports entity will. so what does that accomplish?
 
P5 teams get the benefit of the doubt on the rankings. a P5 team goes thru a soft schedule undefeated, they'll be highly ranked. not sure how that has anything to do with rankings in september.

guys, point is, you cant get rid of college football rankings, it's an entity for cryin out loud. you get rid of it, you'll have espn/cbs/fox sports putting out unofficial rankings and every sports bloggers doing the same. we need it, we as fans demand it. so the coaches dont have a poll, every other sports entity will. so what does that accomplish?
These are two vastly different arguments.

I think we recognize the early rankings aren't going away.

I also think you ignore the benefit those undeservedly in said early ranking get.

You asked why the early ranking bother people so much. Unjustified benefits for those who are more popular with the voters is the best answer I can give.

You seem to think that doesn't matter, so I guess we'll agree to disagree on this one.

I agree isn't changing, but that doesn't mean it's right.
 
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These are two vastly different arguments.

I think we recognize the early rankings aren't going away.

I also think you ignore the benefit those undeservedly in said early ranking get.

You asked why the early ranking bother people so much. Unjustified benefits for those who are more popular with the voters is the best answer I can give.

You seem to think that doesn't matter, so I guess we'll agree to disagree on this one.

I isn't changing, but that doesn't mean it's right.
still not getting examples of these unjustified benefits.. REcruits said if you are in P5 and play soft schedule, you can stay highly ranked and if you are out of it, you wont get in without a half dozen wins. my point is, time takes care of this. week 8, week 9, it all works out..

Wisconsin goes 10-1, they'll be highly ranked. any P5 team has only one loss, they'll be highly ranked in november. if a top 5 team in September loses 3 times, they wont be in top 10 by november..

again, it all works out in the end. teams are rightfully ranked at the end.
 
still not getting examples of these unjustified benefits.. REcruits said if you are in P5 and play soft schedule, you can stay highly ranked and if you are out of it, you wont get in without a half dozen wins. my point is, time takes care of this. week 8, week 9, it all works out..

Wisconsin goes 10-1, they'll be highly ranked. any P5 team has only one loss, they'll be highly ranked in november. if a top 5 team in September loses 3 times, they wont be in top 10 by november..

again, it all works out in the end. teams are rightfully ranked at the end.
And, I agree with you that you don't get it.
 
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And, I agree with you that you don't get it.
ok, you win. no rankings. no one in the college football world is allowed to discuss who the best teams are.. that will solve everything. no comparisons either, not until week 5 can any college football fan discuss who the top teams are...

anyone gives their opinions on this or comes up with any list whatsoever, loses their online priviledges for 12 months..
 
ok, you win. no rankings. no one in the college football world is allowed to discuss who the best teams are.. that will solve everything. no comparisons either, not until week 5 can any college football fan discuss who the top teams are...

anyone gives their opinions on this or comes up with any list whatsoever, loses their online priviledges for 12 months..
That's not unexpected. Well done.
 
That's not unexpected. Well done.
you gave zero examples of unjustified benefits. you gave a newton cliche.. i gave my point with examples. for the fifth time, it all works out in end, every team is proven their rightful place on the rankings.

you guys are upset that experts predictions in september arent' 100%. who besides fans even acknowledge pre-season rankings? No one. are you upet at conference coaches giving their predictions on acc basketball programs? ACC coaches predicted us to be the 13th best team in the ACC, if we aren't, what will change?
 
You're right though I did not take Ohio State out of the equation because....
SEC348
Big Ten264
ACC208
Pac-12195
Big 12133
American94
C-USA75
Mountain West70
Independent51
MAC39
Sun Belt24
Yeah, but half the MAC guys play for the Steelers..10-0!!
 
you gave zero examples of unjustified benefits. you gave a newton cliche.. i gave my point with examples. for the fifth time, it all works out in end, every team is proven their rightful place on the rankings.

you guys are upset that experts predictions in september arent' 100%. who besides fans even acknowledge pre-season rankings? No one. are you upet at conference coaches giving their predictions on acc basketball programs? ACC coaches predicted us to be the 13th best team in the ACC, if we aren't, what will change?
You find weird hills to die on sometimes. If you don't think these things matter, then why do you care? Of course they matter. When Pitt is ranked in the top 25, our game is scrolled, our game is discussed. It is great publicity.

And to some of those teams, especially the SEC and Big 10 their schedule is not really difficult, they just had a bunch of team preseason ranked by pollsters. For example, this year Maryland can say "hey we beat Penn State and Michigan" at the time, but both teams proved to suck while both teams were preseason ranked pretty high.
 
You find weird hills to die on sometimes. If you don't think these things matter, then why do you care? Of course they matter. When Pitt is ranked in the top 25, our game is scrolled, our game is discussed. It is great publicity.

And to some of those teams, especially the SEC and Big 10 their schedule is not really difficult, they just had a bunch of team preseason ranked by pollsters. For example, this year Maryland can say "hey we beat Penn State and Michigan" at the time, but both teams proved to suck while both teams were preseason ranked pretty high.
I think he's just trying to impersonate Souf today. That's the only explanation I can give.
 
You find weird hills to die on sometimes. If you don't think these things matter, then why do you care? Of course they matter. When Pitt is ranked in the top 25, our game is scrolled, our game is discussed. It is great publicity.

And to some of those teams, especially the SEC and Big 10 their schedule is not really difficult, they just had a bunch of team preseason ranked by pollsters. For example, this year Maryland can say "hey we beat Penn State and Michigan" at the time, but both teams proved to suck while both teams were preseason ranked pretty high.
you guys want to stop people from ranking teams for the first month of the season and i find weird hills to die on?? think about that for a second..

your second paragraph makes no sense. so maryland beating psu and michigan did what for them exactly? maryland isnt even in the top 25, you give an example of unjustified benefits by using maryland. maryland isnt even ranked and i dont think they've even played michigan yet. every one of their games has been cancelled due to covid..

So as of now, when asking for evidence, i got a hypothetical wisconsin team, an isaac newton analogy and a 2-1 unranked maryland team.. good job guys, way to support your opinion here with sound arguments..

you want to end early season rankings because some teams' scores get scrolled? that's the unjustified benefits?
 
Also, the number one reason is all of the free publicity teams in the top 25 get. They are talked about on every sports program; scores shown at the bottom of every game; highlights shown; etc.....


You understand that that's the whole reason why there is a preseason poll, and why that isn't going to change, well, ever, right?
 
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