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Chryst's 2012 and 2013 classes deserve a lot of blame

Sean Miller Fan

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Oct 30, 2001
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The 2012 class would be 5th year seniors right now. These are the only players left on the roster:

Jester Weah
Jaryd Jones-Smith
Devon Edwards
Alex Officer
Ryan Winslow

So, 5 out of 27 made it to their 5th year.

2 (Conner and Boyd) left early for the NFL ao credit to Chryst for getting those guys here.

7 did not redshirt and graduated (Webb, Orndoff, Jarrett, Galambos, Parrish, Soto, Johnson)

13 out of 27 either transferred or were kicked off the team after contributing little to nothing

When you have almost half of a recruiting class give you 0, that aint good. Combine that with some questionable burning of redshirts that year, and we are left with what we have. I don't remember any of the non-redshirted players contributing in any meaningful way as freshmen except maybe Terrish Webb, believe it or not.


2014 is almost as bad. 10 out of the 23 are no longer on the team after contributing little to nothing.

Of the 13 players who stayed, only 5 are regular starters: Ollison, Bookser, Maddox, Zeise, O'Neill. The other 8 don't receive as much playing time (Folston, Roy, Dintino, Motley, Wirginis, Herndon, Briggs, Jalen Williams)

I know a lot people were excited that Chryst was outsmarting all the other coaches and recruiting services and finding a bunch of "hidden gems" but as is the case way more often than not, there's a reason they were hidden. Problem is, Narduzzi isn't faring much better.

Recruiting is the name of the game.
 
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Yes. But recruiting needs school leadership and booster support. I honestly think Narduzzi works far harder than Chryst at it and comes across better in every which way, yet the results are pretty much similar. So ultimately something else is still lacking (and it isn't an on campus stadium or tarps!).
 
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Yes. But recruiting needs school leadership and booster support. I honestly think Narduzzi works far harder than Chryst at it and comes across better in every which way, yet the results are pretty much similar. So ultimately something else is still lacking (and it isn't an on campus stadium or tarps!).

I don't think Pitt is at any recruiting disadvantage when it comes to resources for recruiting, I really don't. In the end, it comes down to whether you can sell the program or not and what the players are looking for. Heinz Field is not a detractor for recruits but the amount of empty yellow seats and lack of a gameday atmosphere is but that's not the only reason recruiting has been mediocre under Chryst and Narduzzi.
 
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If you want to take it a step farther, that class had some bad reaches in it because the prior years' class was such an unmitigated debacle.
 
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The 2012 class would be 5th year seniors right now. These are the only players left on the roster:

Jester Weah
Jaryd Jones-Smith
Devon Edwards
Alex Officer
Ryan Winslow

So, 5 out of 27 made it to their 5th year.

2 (Conner and Boyd) left early for the NFL ao credit to Chryst for getting those guys here.

7 did not redshirt and graduated (Webb, Orndoff, Jarrett, Galambos, Parrish, Soto, Johnson)

13 out of 27 either transferred or were kicked off the team after contributing little to nothing

When you have almost half of a recruiting class give you 0, that aint good. Combine that with some questionable burning of redshirts that year, and we are left with what we have. I don't remember any of the non-redshirted players contributing in any meaningful way as freshmen except maybe Terrish Webb, believe it or not.


2014 is almost as bad. 10 out of the 23 are no longer on the team after contributing little to nothing.

Of the 13 players who stayed, only 5 are regular starters: Ollison, Bookser, Maddox, Zeise, O'Neill. The other 8 don't receive as much playing time (Folston, Roy, Dintino, Motley, Wirginis, Herndon, Briggs, Jalen Williams)

I know a lot people were excited that Chryst was outsmarting all the other coaches and recruiting services and finding a bunch of "hidden gems" but as is the case way more often than not, there's a reason they were hidden. Problem is, Narduzzi isn't faring much better.

Recruiting is the name of the game.

We have been saying this for years, and Frauds class was way worse. I think Canada was a miracle worker last year... nothing short of that. I cant even give the credit to Narduzzi totally, because Canada ran the offense, and that offense should have been put into the Smithsonian for future generations to cherish.

One thing that HAS changed has been Narduzzi made a point to shore up our facilities to make them rank up there with other P5 schools. That was sorely lacking in Chryst's tenure. And for whatever reason, it was still lacking when Narduzzi got there, and he immediately had that changed.

Now, we still have the perception problem of poor fan base, lack-luster performance, etc. But, we are recruiting fairly well, and Narduzzi does seem like a closer type guy. I think we will be OK. Wannstedt was a force in recruiting I think. He just happened to recruit the wrong 4 star QBs in his stint. I think Narduzzi, once he builds the networks (which he is) will be just fine and get top 30 each year
 
I honestly don't expect to have many more than 5-7 contributing RS SRs. We are a little low because Chryst wasn't a very good recruiter and a lot of guys had to play right away, but I don't even think the numbers are that bad. Last year we had 9 guys from that 2012 class as starters and most of them legitimate starters who would start or play for a lot of teams. That's pretty solid from a class. Most classes have a 50% 0 contribution rate. Why? Well some guys might not even get to campus, others can't cut it or stay out of trouble, and just on sheer numbers some guys aren't going to play and thus will leave. I think if you can have a class be 60% successful, you have done a hell of a job.

2014 is a lot worse of a situation than 2012, but of course those were guys who had just come in and 4 months later had a new coaching staff. You can't expect much after that. Guys were not established and the new coaching staff probably didn't even know most of them, let alone have any high opinion of them.
 
The 2012 class would be 5th year seniors right now. These are the only players left on the roster:

Jester Weah
Jaryd Jones-Smith
Devon Edwards
Alex Officer
Ryan Winslow

So, 5 out of 27 made it to their 5th year.

2 (Conner and Boyd) left early for the NFL ao credit to Chryst for getting those guys here.

7 did not redshirt and graduated (Webb, Orndoff, Jarrett, Galambos, Parrish, Soto, Johnson)

13 out of 27 either transferred or were kicked off the team after contributing little to nothing

When you have almost half of a recruiting class give you 0, that aint good. Combine that with some questionable burning of redshirts that year, and we are left with what we have. I don't remember any of the non-redshirted players contributing in any meaningful way as freshmen except maybe Terrish Webb, believe it or not.


2014 is almost as bad. 10 out of the 23 are no longer on the team after contributing little to nothing.

Of the 13 players who stayed, only 5 are regular starters: Ollison, Bookser, Maddox, Zeise, O'Neill. The other 8 don't receive as much playing time (Folston, Roy, Dintino, Motley, Wirginis, Herndon, Briggs, Jalen Williams)

I know a lot people were excited that Chryst was outsmarting all the other coaches and recruiting services and finding a bunch of "hidden gems" but as is the case way more often than not, there's a reason they were hidden. Problem is, Narduzzi isn't faring much better.

Recruiting is the name of the game.

What is bad, is that 2 guys from this class (Boyd and DJ) would have likely ended up at PSU without the sanctions and scandal fall out.

I loved Narduzzi's first full class. Camp, Watts, Pine, Hamlin, Miller, etc.....alot of what seems to be quality talent, and that was hurt by the illnesses to Hill and Gilbert.

The next class was a solid class.

But this class is just blah, devoid of playmakers.
 
Why? Why are we lucky? Would you take him over Bronco Mendenhall? Justin Fuentes? Mark Richt? Those are new coaches now who are making their programs much better.
Because quite frankly in the words of the great Mike Tomlin our program is below the line junior varsity. None of the coaches listed above would even look at the cluster eff dumpster fire nerdy turned over to Gallagher. Join the winning team son we are going in for the big score.
 
Why? Why are we lucky? Would you take him over Bronco Mendenhall? Justin Fuentes? Mark Richt? Those are new coaches now who are making their programs much better.
Pitt wouldn't pony up (or try to convince their boosters effectively enough, more accurately) for them. Why is this so "negative" to point out? Its true.

I think Pitt did extend itself to pay Dixon a couple different times and it led to no championships (and therefore no jump in revenues... because Pitt fans like most everywhere respond to championships). So sometime in the past 5 years or so, started dialing back on the spigot for the sports teams. Starved JD of decent assistants and took advantage of booster grumbles as an excuse to rid itself of his contract. On the football side, the Graham affair bothered them to the point they've surrendered since. Just hire a decent coordinator to be HC (far cheaper than an established HC) and stick him with bottom dollar staff and pennies for recruiting (and let's not forget stringent academic shackles and discipline beyond our peers).

All these are undeniable. They are right there in front of everyone. It's not negative to point it out.

And hey it seems fine for most. The ACC is fine with it. Student enrollments haven't suffered. Only a core number of folks like us give a dump.
 
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Pitt wouldn't pony up (or try to convince their boosters effectively enough, more accurately) for them. Why is this so "negative" to point out? Its true.

I think Pitt did extend itself to pay Dixon a couple different times and it led to no championships (and therefore no jump in revenues... because Pitt fans like most everywhere respond to championships). So sometime in the past 5 years or so, started dialing back on the spigot for the sports teams. Starved JD of decent assistants and took advantage of booster grumbles as an excuse to rid itself of his contract. On the football side, the Graham affair bothered them to the point they've surrendered since. Just hire a decent coordinator to be HC (far cheaper than an established HC) and stick him with bottom dollar staff and pennies for recruiting (and let's not forget stringent academic shackles and discipline beyond our peers).

All these are undeniable. They are right there in front of everyone. It's not negative to point it out.

And hey it seems fine for most. The ACC is fine with it. Student enrollments haven't suffered. Only a core number of folks like us give a dump.
Your post is spot on. Ironically, Pitt does not even budget their money and go cheap properly. If they want to go in that direction, then hire a young, agresssive coach from a lower level. Instead, they hired a guy headed towards retirement in basketball. JM2 is another example.
 
Your post is spot on. Ironically, Pitt does not even budget their money and go cheap properly. If they want to go in that direction, then hire a young, agresssive coach from a lower level. Instead, they hired a guy headed towards retirement in basketball. JM2 is another example.
I lived Hackett to Majors II ... So i definitely concur
 
The 2012 class would be 5th year seniors right now. These are the only players left on the roster:

Jester Weah
Jaryd Jones-Smith
Devon Edwards
Alex Officer
Ryan Winslow

So, 5 out of 27 made it to their 5th year.

2 (Conner and Boyd) left early for the NFL ao credit to Chryst for getting those guys here.

7 did not redshirt and graduated (Webb, Orndoff, Jarrett, Galambos, Parrish, Soto, Johnson)

13 out of 27 either transferred or were kicked off the team after contributing little to nothing

When you have almost half of a recruiting class give you 0, that aint good. Combine that with some questionable burning of redshirts that year, and we are left with what we have. I don't remember any of the non-redshirted players contributing in any meaningful way as freshmen except maybe Terrish Webb, believe it or not.


2014 is almost as bad. 10 out of the 23 are no longer on the team after contributing little to nothing.

Of the 13 players who stayed, only 5 are regular starters: Ollison, Bookser, Maddox, Zeise, O'Neill. The other 8 don't receive as much playing time (Folston, Roy, Dintino, Motley, Wirginis, Herndon, Briggs, Jalen Williams)

I know a lot people were excited that Chryst was outsmarting all the other coaches and recruiting services and finding a bunch of "hidden gems" but as is the case way more often than not, there's a reason they were hidden. Problem is, Narduzzi isn't faring much better.

Recruiting is the name of the game.
Posted this last week. That 2013 class was actually a good class, the problem is not many are left. It was the direct result of two coaching changes back to back. PC didn't have a choice he had to fill out the special teams and even some starting spots. Guys like Jarret and Orndorff would still be here had say they hired PC directly after DW. The team would look better, might still be down.
 
The better question is which coaches would choose us, as opposed to us choosing them.
They would choose us but we would have to make a commitment that the admin isn't willing to make to land guys like that. They would have to pay significantly more money than they have to PC or PN got. Probably in the 3.5 million range. They would have to commit to more money for assistance, probably 2 to 3 million. Then many coaches would probably want to recruit anyone who can get in(not really a issue as I think this is already pretty standard), relaxing of drug policy and increased budget on facilities and recruiting budget.
 
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They would choose us but we would have to make a commitment that the admin isn't willing to make to land guys like that. They would have to pay significantly more money than they have to PC or PN got. Probably in the 3.5 million range. They would have to commit to more money for assistance, probably 2 to 3 million. Then many coaches would probably want to recruit anyone who can get in(not really a issue as I think this is already pretty standard), relaxing of drug policy and increased budget on facilities and recruiting budget.
We both know that isn't happening.
 
The 2012 class would be 5th year seniors right now. These are the only players left on the roster:

Jester Weah
Jaryd Jones-Smith
Devon Edwards
Alex Officer
Ryan Winslow

So, 5 out of 27 made it to their 5th year.

2 (Conner and Boyd) left early for the NFL ao credit to Chryst for getting those guys here.

7 did not redshirt and graduated (Webb, Orndoff, Jarrett, Galambos, Parrish, Soto, Johnson)

13 out of 27 either transferred or were kicked off the team after contributing little to nothing

When you have almost half of a recruiting class give you 0, that aint good. Combine that with some questionable burning of redshirts that year, and we are left with what we have. I don't remember any of the non-redshirted players contributing in any meaningful way as freshmen except maybe Terrish Webb, believe it or not.


So the 2012 recruiting class produced almost a dozen multi-year starters, and you think that isn't good enough?

Good grief.
 
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If pitt could have a class like that one every year it would have a top 25 team. On paper ON first two full classes are similar to that one problem is we fdont have many left from that class as a result of poor depth from coaching changes and we have another short class of third year guys because of coaching changes! So two out of the three upperclassmen classes have been effected significantly because we swap coaches constantly
 
I believe we are seeing the results of the 2014 and 2015 classes more than 2013. 2013 was much better than the latter two classes. 2015 was a transition year, so hard to pin that on either coach, but it still has more quality than 2014 especially on defense.

This is what we have left on the defensive side of the ball:
2013 - not a single defensive player

2014 - not a single viable starter:
Folston
Zeise
Motley
Roy
Wirginis
Briggs
Jalen Williams

2015
Brightwell (PN)
McKee (PN)
A. Edwards (PN)
Stocker (PN)
Whitehead (PC)
Dane Jackson (PC)
M. Henderson (PC)

In summary, the upper class on D either isn't there or they aren't very good. 2015 was better, but the defense is very young.
 
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The 2012 class would be 5th year seniors right now. These are the only players left on the roster:

Jester Weah
Jaryd Jones-Smith
Devon Edwards
Alex Officer
Ryan Winslow

So, 5 out of 27 made it to their 5th year.

2 (Conner and Boyd) left early for the NFL ao credit to Chryst for getting those guys here.

7 did not redshirt and graduated (Webb, Orndoff, Jarrett, Galambos, Parrish, Soto, Johnson)

13 out of 27 either transferred or were kicked off the team after contributing little to nothing

When you have almost half of a recruiting class give you 0, that aint good. Combine that with some questionable burning of redshirts that year, and we are left with what we have. I don't remember any of the non-redshirted players contributing in any meaningful way as freshmen except maybe Terrish Webb, believe it or not.


So the 2012 recruiting class produced almost a dozen multi-year starters, and you think that isn't good enough?

Good grief.

The points I was trying to make are that only 5 made it to year 5, 13/27 did nothing, but perhaps most importantly, too many redshirts were burned during a 6-6 season. I realize we had some depth issues early in the Chryst era but how many more games would we jave have lost if guys like Galambos, Jarrett, Orndoff, etc redshirted that year. Would we have went 3-9? 5-7? No, the answer is that we still would have went 6-6 so in that case, it was a bad decision not to RS those players.
 
The better question is which coaches would choose us, as opposed to us choosing them.
Dude why don't you and a few of your lackeys go start a Narduzzi fan club. I'm sure he'd appreciate you showing him unconditional love. Smh.
 
The points I was trying to make are that only 5 made it to year 5, 13/27 did nothing, but perhaps most importantly, too many redshirts were burned during a 6-6 season. I realize we had some depth issues early in the Chryst era but how many more games would we jave have lost if guys like Galambos, Jarrett, Orndoff, etc redshirted that year. Would we have went 3-9? 5-7? No, the answer is that we still would have went 6-6 so in that case, it was a bad decision not to RS those players.

This is a really dumb post....
 
The points I was trying to make are that only 5 made it to year 5, 13/27 did nothing, but perhaps most importantly, too many redshirts were burned during a 6-6 season. I realize we had some depth issues early in the Chryst era but how many more games would we jave have lost if guys like Galambos, Jarrett, Orndoff, etc redshirted that year. Would we have went 3-9? 5-7? No, the answer is that we still would have went 6-6 so in that case, it was a bad decision not to RS those players.
13 of 27 not doing anything is pretty damn standard. Only 5 being contributing RS SRs is pretty damn standard. At most it is low by a couple guys.
 
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