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Clarion Exhibition Game & Other Dribbles ...

DT_PITT

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Jul 17, 2001
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** Directly following yesterday’s exhibition game against Clarion, I had the pleasure of going to Heinz Chapel for a good friend’s daughter’s wedding. I took my spot in the congregation next to another good friend who asked me if I attended the game, as the son of an acquaintance of his plays for Clarion (I don’t recall what player it was).

** I provided a very brief rundown on the game, but concluded with “Clarion seems really bad.” He replied that according to his friend, “they are terrible.”

** Last night, @gary2 asked if our 15 steals were part of a less passive defense by the Panthers, our if Clarion was just this bad. I responded a little of both. The Panthers were demonstrating nice traps and pressure on Clarion’s high ball screens. But it’s also worth noting that the Clarion players seem to pick up their dribble more than some fifth grade teams I’ve coached.

** Still, it was nice to see our guys out there having a good time balling and having things go their way, because that wasn’t often the case this year.

** And if you weren’t impressed with the 31-point halftime margin (as I wasn’t), @Chris Peak reminded me at that point that it surely beats a score of something like 37-23, which we have seen too often of late against a few teams like this.

** Nonetheless, the reason I joined the 300 or so others who attended this game was to get some impression on our players, particularly the newcomers. And while I found the afternoon enjoyable, my take is that we are still a bricks short of encouraging.

** That said, Nelly and Hinson were in fact somewhat encouraging. Blake is a big strong boy who can put the ball in the hoop from down low or along the perimeter. Despite his is offense, he still needs to demonstrate if he can defend and rebound.

** Nelly is quicker, wiser and more complete than I expected. He’s a little bit sloppy with the ball and I hope he’ll correct that. But I believe it’s more than possible that he’s an upgrade from Femi.

** As we know, @Matt Steinbrink was sitting courtside with his wonderful son, and he texted me afterward saying he likes the twins. It’s worth noting the Matt is usually pretty on the money with his assessments. But if Matt is right, I think the better bet is that they are a good 1-2 years away from being worthwhile contributors. The biggest issue is that both need to get much, much stronger. Their bodies are so slight that Clarion defenders basically push through the screens they set while that were also pushed away from the glass by smaller rebounders, especially in traffic.

** I’m also concerned about the lateral quickness of the twins. In man defense they were beaten easily off the dribble several times. I’ll keep an open mind, but against bigger stronger opponents of the ACC, I see it hard to see how that can provide any noteworthy production.

** Fede was almost invisible in the first half, but was the player of the second half with 10 points and 7 boards after the break. He doesn’t really have any offense to speak of, scoring only on power put backs, but at least he plays strong. My guess is that he’ll become the main understudy to John.

** It was nice to see Greg Elliott hit shots, because I think it proves he’s a legit piece for this team. He was also strong with perimeter traps along with Nelly, Nike, and Jamarius.

** In fact, Jamarius was probably the Panther’s best player, even if a significant step forward from last year wasn’t immediately evident. I’ll even say that I like Burton as a player, but after watching him through all of last year, I still have some fears that somehow his game takes away from others.

** Nate’s afternoon wasn’t disappointing, and he still has a wonderful release on his deep shot. But the Clarion defense was not best barometer to learn if he’s made any progress.

** Nike might have been the only guy on the team who performed below my expectations. He didn’t make mistakes, but he seemed less aggressive that I expected.

** I have no idea if Edinboro will provide even a little bit of a stronger test. I also have no idea how close Big John as Will are from getting to the court. I sure hope it is sooner than later. If this group has any real shot of finishing any kind of decent chunk higher in the ACC than the predicted #14 spot, we need to get everyone on board and working together as soon as possible.
 
** Directly following yesterday’s exhibition game against Clarion, I had the pleasure of going to Heinz Chapel for a good friend’s daughter’s wedding. I took my spot in the congregation next to another good friend who asked me if I attended the game, as the son of an acquaintance of his plays for Clarion (I don’t recall what player it was).

** I provided a very brief rundown on the game, but concluded with “Clarion seems really bad.” He replied that according to his friend, “they are terrible.”

** Last night, @gary2 asked if our 15 steals were part of a less passive defense by the Panthers, our if Clarion was just this bad. I responded a little of both. The Panthers were demonstrating nice traps and pressure on Clarion’s high ball screens. But it’s also worth noting that the Clarion players seem to pick up their dribble more than some fifth grade teams I’ve coached.

** Still, it was nice to see our guys out there having a good time balling and having things go their way, because that wasn’t often the case this year.

** And if you weren’t impressed with the 31-point halftime margin (as I wasn’t), @Chris Peak reminded me at that point that it surely beats a score of something like 37-23, which we have seen too often of late against a few teams like this.

** Nonetheless, the reason I joined the 300 or so others who attended this game was to get some impression on our players, particularly the newcomers. And while I found the afternoon enjoyable, my take is that we are still a bricks short of encouraging.

** That said, Nelly and Hinson were in fact somewhat encouraging. Blake is a big strong boy who can put the ball in the hoop from down low or along the perimeter. Despite his is offense, he still needs to demonstrate if he can defend and rebound.

** Nelly is quicker, wiser and more complete than I expected. He’s a little bit sloppy with the ball and I hope he’ll correct that. But I believe it’s more than possible that he’s an upgrade from Femi.

** As we know, @Matt Steinbrink was sitting courtside with his wonderful son, and he texted me afterward saying he likes the twins. It’s worth noting the Matt is usually pretty on the money with his assessments. But if Matt is right, I think the better bet is that they are a good 1-2 years away from being worthwhile contributors. The biggest issue is that both need to get much, much stronger. Their bodies are so slight that Clarion defenders basically push through the screens they set while that were also pushed away from the glass by smaller rebounders, especially in traffic.

** I’m also concerned about the lateral quickness of the twins. In man defense they were beaten easily off the dribble several times. I’ll keep an open mind, but against bigger stronger opponents of the ACC, I see it hard to see how that can provide any noteworthy production.

** Fede was almost invisible in the first half, but was the player of the second half with 10 points and 7 boards after the break. He doesn’t really have any offense to speak of, scoring only on power put backs, but at least he plays strong. My guess is that he’ll become the main understudy to John.

** It was nice to see Greg Elliott hit shots, because I think it proves he’s a legit piece for this team. He was also strong with perimeter traps along with Nelly, Nike, and Jamarius.

** In fact, Jamarius was probably the Panther’s best player, even if a significant step forward from last year wasn’t immediately evident. I’ll even say that I like Burton as a player, but after watching him through all of last year, I still have some fears that somehow his game takes away from others.

** Nate’s afternoon wasn’t disappointing, and he still has a wonderful release on his deep shot. But the Clarion defense was not best barometer to learn if he’s made any progress.

** Nike might have been the only guy on the team who performed below my expectations. He didn’t make mistakes, but he seemed less aggressive that I expected.

** I have no idea if Edinboro will provide even a little bit of a stronger test. I also have no idea how close Big John as Will are from getting to the court. I sure hope it is sooner than later. If this group has any real shot of finishing any kind of decent chunk higher in the ACC than the predicted #14 spot, we need to get everyone on board and working together as soon as possible.
Do you think Federiko can/will be better than Collier?
 
Almost 24 hours to wait for a Dribbles. Do you know how much I pay for this free board? LOL

Its hard for me to believe 7 footers won’t contribute to this team even if it is just to be a Chet look a like contest somewhere down the line.

Clearly John is the key as perhaps is the court system.
 
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Almost 24 hours to wait for a Dribbles. Do you know how much I pay for this free board? LOL

Its hard for me to believe 7 footers won’t contribute to this team even if it is just to be a Chet look a like contest somewhere down the line.

Clearly John is the key as perhaps is the court system.
Capel's post-game presser comments confirmed that Jorge D-G is strictly going to be used as a wing in his limited minutes and that his brother, Guillermo, isn't physically strong enough as a 19 year-old to play the post. It also seemed to confirm what DT saw and I had separately concluded from following the live stats yesterday that Federiko is a better option as a post backup for Hugley than either Twin. IMHO, he will get most/all of the backup minutes behind Hugley.

IMHO, just my very early opinion, Guillermo D-G will mostly play as a "4" in limited minutes paired with Hugley or Federiko playing the 5.

Since the twins only turned 19 in June, there is plenty of time for them to add the needed weight and strength they need to warrant more than limited minutes; but, that as others have commented should take 1-2 years to be accomplished---late soph or junior years when they have past their 20th birthday is likely when they get there.
 
DT, thanks for the input.
Not being there, I obviously
can't comment, so as usual
I'll wait until I see them on
tv in real time. Question,
from the little you've see
of Fede, if Hugley can't go,
can Fede be at least passable
in the ACC?
 
My thing with the twins isn't expecting alot. But I think this team can hide them in a zone and we've played alot of zone under this coach.
But most of all....I know they missed their 3's yesterday..... that's the contribution I think ....they'll add some timely 3's. The team shooting just needs to be way better as a whole team.
 
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** Directly following yesterday’s exhibition game against Clarion, I had the pleasure of going to Heinz Chapel for a good friend’s daughter’s wedding. I took my spot in the congregation next to another good friend who asked me if I attended the game, as the son of an acquaintance of his plays for Clarion (I don’t recall what player it was).

** I provided a very brief rundown on the game, but concluded with “Clarion seems really bad.” He replied that according to his friend, “they are terrible.”

** Last night, @gary2 asked if our 15 steals were part of a less passive defense by the Panthers, our if Clarion was just this bad. I responded a little of both. The Panthers were demonstrating nice traps and pressure on Clarion’s high ball screens. But it’s also worth noting that the Clarion players seem to pick up their dribble more than some fifth grade teams I’ve coached.

** Still, it was nice to see our guys out there having a good time balling and having things go their way, because that wasn’t often the case this year.

** And if you weren’t impressed with the 31-point halftime margin (as I wasn’t), @Chris Peak reminded me at that point that it surely beats a score of something like 37-23, which we have seen too often of late against a few teams like this.

** Nonetheless, the reason I joined the 300 or so others who attended this game was to get some impression on our players, particularly the newcomers. And while I found the afternoon enjoyable, my take is that we are still a bricks short of encouraging.

** That said, Nelly and Hinson were in fact somewhat encouraging. Blake is a big strong boy who can put the ball in the hoop from down low or along the perimeter. Despite his is offense, he still needs to demonstrate if he can defend and rebound.

** Nelly is quicker, wiser and more complete than I expected. He’s a little bit sloppy with the ball and I hope he’ll correct that. But I believe it’s more than possible that he’s an upgrade from Femi.

** As we know, @Matt Steinbrink was sitting courtside with his wonderful son, and he texted me afterward saying he likes the twins. It’s worth noting the Matt is usually pretty on the money with his assessments. But if Matt is right, I think the better bet is that they are a good 1-2 years away from being worthwhile contributors. The biggest issue is that both need to get much, much stronger. Their bodies are so slight that Clarion defenders basically push through the screens they set while that were also pushed away from the glass by smaller rebounders, especially in traffic.

** I’m also concerned about the lateral quickness of the twins. In man defense they were beaten easily off the dribble several times. I’ll keep an open mind, but against bigger stronger opponents of the ACC, I see it hard to see how that can provide any noteworthy production.

** Fede was almost invisible in the first half, but was the player of the second half with 10 points and 7 boards after the break. He doesn’t really have any offense to speak of, scoring only on power put backs, but at least he plays strong. My guess is that he’ll become the main understudy to John.

** It was nice to see Greg Elliott hit shots, because I think it proves he’s a legit piece for this team. He was also strong with perimeter traps along with Nelly, Nike, and Jamarius.

** In fact, Jamarius was probably the Panther’s best player, even if a significant step forward from last year wasn’t immediately evident. I’ll even say that I like Burton as a player, but after watching him through all of last year, I still have some fears that somehow his game takes away from others.

** Nate’s afternoon wasn’t disappointing, and he still has a wonderful release on his deep shot. But the Clarion defense was not best barometer to learn if he’s made any progress.

** Nike might have been the only guy on the team who performed below my expectations. He didn’t make mistakes, but he seemed less aggressive that I expected.

** I have no idea if Edinboro will provide even a little bit of a stronger test. I also have no idea how close Big John as Will are from getting to the court. I sure hope it is sooner than later. If this group has any real shot of finishing any kind of decent chunk higher in the ACC than the predicted #14 spot, we need to get everyone on board and working together as soon as possible.
Pitt can go 2-0 vs PennWest on Nov 2. Coulda been 3-0 but their California, PA campus is ducking us.

I have said for a few months that I think Fede is the backup 5 and that I dont expect much from the twins other than token minutes here and there at the 4. They are too skinny and coming from the European style, would have to be a huge liability defensively and on the glass. Nothing from your posts suggests I'm wrong.

I didn't go to the game but I usually do like going to games like this to get a preview of the rotation. I always post my minute breakdown predictions but after a game like this, you can get a good idea of who the coach likes where.

So what would be your minute breakdown estimate?
 
Pitt can go 2-0 vs PennWest on Nov 2. Coulda been 3-0 but their California, PA campus is ducking us.

I have said for a few months that I think Fede is the backup 5 and that I dont expect much from the twins other than token minutes here and there at the 4. They are too skinny and coming from the European style, would have to be a huge liability defensively and on the glass. Nothing from your posts suggests I'm wrong.

I didn't go to the game but I usually do like going to games like this to get a preview of the rotation. I always post my minute breakdown predictions but after a game like this, you can get a good idea of who the coach likes where.

So what would be your minute breakdown estimate?

I don't think we can really know until Jeffress gets into the mix.

At this point, I think we have six legit ACC players - Nelly, Burton, Elliott, Nike, Hinson and Big John. The rest are likely to play more bits and pieces. I'm far from convinced Jeffress of that level but he played 21 minutes a game last year at both the three and four spots. It also remains to be seen if Santos gets into the mix.
 
DT, thanks for the input.
Not being there, I obviously
can't comment, so as usual
I'll wait until I see them on
tv in real time. Question,
from the little you've see
of Fede, if Hugley can't go,
can Fede be at least passable
in the ACC?

With only a small look at Fede, I'd say he's perhaps OK for a role similar to Noah last year. But if Hugley isn't ready to go, the drop off to either Fede or GDiaz would be huge.
 
Almost 24 hours to wait for a Dribbles. Do you know how much I pay for this free board? LOL

Its hard for me to believe 7 footers won’t contribute to this team even if it is just to be a Chet look a like contest somewhere down the line.

Clearly John is the key as perhaps is the court system.

It's easy to believe that both will play a little and contribute a little here and there. I would be very, very surprised if we see Dior this year.
 
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With only a small look at Fede, I'd say he's perhaps OK for a role similar to Noah last year. But if Hugley isn't ready to go, the drop off to either Fede or GDiaz would be huge.
One thing however, Noah
was a 6'8" forward while
Fede is a 6'11" center. If
he can D it up inside,
protect the rim, block an
occasional shot, and
rebound...he might be a
positive.....we'll see.
 
One thing however, Noah
was a 6'8" forward while
Fede is a 6'11" center. If
he can D it up inside,
protect the rim, block an
occasional shot, and
rebound...he might be a
positive.....we'll see.

Noah and Fede are similar type athletes and look like they may have a similar kind of game. Those couple 2-3 inches don't really matter all that much, I don't believe.
 
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From something you’ve heard?

I think he’ll be back in January.

Yes and no. I don't think there is anything to be heard, per se. We all basically have the same facts at this point. But someone I know much closer to the team is very skeptical that he's back. Their take is that this is a much different situation from Horton last year. But this is just someone's opinion too.
 
Yes and no. I don't think there is anything to be heard, per se. We all basically have the same facts at this point. But someone I know much closer to the team is very skeptical that he's back. Their take is that this is a much different situation from Horton last year. But this is just someone's opinion too.

I think if he gets rid of the felony, he’s back.

Do you agree with that much?

I just heard that Pitt was behind helping him get the best lawyer he could which is what leads me to believe they want to get him back on the court.

It would have been very easy for the staff to wipe their hands of him if they feel he lied to them and/or we’re done with him given they really only have a month-long relationship.
 
Noah and Fede are similar type athletes and look like they may have a similar kind of game. Those couple 2-3 inches don't really matter all that much, I don't believe.
2-3 inches matter a great deal defensively and rebounding. It is better to be 6'11 with no talent than 6'8 with no talent (Collier)
 
I think if he gets rid of the felony, he’s back.

Do you agree with that much?

I just heard that Pitt was behind helping him get the best lawyer he could which is what leads me to believe they want to get him back on the court.

It would have been very easy for the staff to wipe their hands of him if they feel he lied to them and/or we’re done with him given they really only have a month-long relationship.

I'm not going to agree or disagree with anything because I simply do not know. I just hope it works out for all involved.
 
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I think if he gets rid of the felony, he’s back.

Do you agree with that much?

I just heard that Pitt was behind helping him get the best lawyer he could which is what leads me to believe they want to get him back on the court.

It would have been very easy for the staff to wipe their hands of him if they feel he lied to them and/or we’re done with him given they really only have a month-long relationship.
Even if everything is dropped, it doesn't mean that he did not hit a woman. Lets say some video comes out of some Pitt player punching a woman in the bar, but the woman doesn't press charges, does that mean there is no suspension? For me, hitting a woman requires a minimum suspension of one season. Selfishly, I'd like to see him play and am hoping he does but it wouldn't be right.
 
2-3 inches matter a great deal defensively and rebounding. It is better to be 6'11 with no talent than 6'8 with no talent (Collier)
I tend to agree here. However, I would not say that Collier had no talent. He was a 6-8 guy who was athletic and had been projected as a forward when in high school but he never developed a jump shot.

Similarly, I would not call Federiko untalented. He is an athletic 6-10 guy who currently weighs about 220. As a back-up post who can get defensive boards, maybe occasionally block a shot and perhaps on occasion get a follow up dunk on a missed shot; he can be adequate as a the guy who gives Hugley up to ten minutes of rest. He is physically more capable of this defensively than either twin because they are currently too light and lacking in strength to be post players.

There really don't seem to be any other practical options anyway, other than going small without any player over 6-7 on the floor when Hugley is on the bench.
 
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I tend to agree here. However, I would not say that Collier had no talent. He was a 6-8 guy who was athletic and had been projected as a forward when in high school but he never developed a jump shot.

Similarly, I would not call Federiko untalented. He is an athletic 6-10 guy who currently weighs about 220. As a back-up post who can get defensive boards, maybe occasionally block a shot and perhaps on occasion get a follow up dunk on a missed shot; he can be adequate as a the guy who gives Hugley up to ten minutes of rest. He is physically more capable of this defensively than either twin because they are currently too light and lacking in strength to be post players.

There really don't seem to be any other practical options anyway, other than going small without any player over 6-7 on the floor when Hugley is on the bench.
Ok, since I originally asked
the question there seem
to be some logical
responses. I thought
all that Collier brought
to the floor was hustle.
He worked his ass off,
but that's about all. I
hope Fede gets maybe
10 mpg. If Hugley is
back 100%, we probably
are better with Fede as
the backup than we were
with Collier.
 
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Best thing for Dior would be to sit out the year, get his grades, get some counseling. By letting him play it teaches him nothing in life. This needs to be his wake up call to turn his life around. He obviously needs some help and a father figure, maybe Capel can be that.
 
** Directly following yesterday’s exhibition game against Clarion, I had the pleasure of going to Heinz Chapel for a good friend’s daughter’s wedding. I took my spot in the congregation next to another good friend who asked me if I attended the game, as the son of an acquaintance of his plays for Clarion (I don’t recall what player it was).

** I provided a very brief rundown on the game, but concluded with “Clarion seems really bad.” He replied that according to his friend, “they are terrible.”

** Last night, @gary2 asked if our 15 steals were part of a less passive defense by the Panthers, our if Clarion was just this bad. I responded a little of both. The Panthers were demonstrating nice traps and pressure on Clarion’s high ball screens. But it’s also worth noting that the Clarion players seem to pick up their dribble more than some fifth grade teams I’ve coached.

** Still, it was nice to see our guys out there having a good time balling and having things go their way, because that wasn’t often the case this year.

** And if you weren’t impressed with the 31-point halftime margin (as I wasn’t), @Chris Peak reminded me at that point that it surely beats a score of something like 37-23, which we have seen too often of late against a few teams like this.

** Nonetheless, the reason I joined the 300 or so others who attended this game was to get some impression on our players, particularly the newcomers. And while I found the afternoon enjoyable, my take is that we are still a bricks short of encouraging.

** That said, Nelly and Hinson were in fact somewhat encouraging. Blake is a big strong boy who can put the ball in the hoop from down low or along the perimeter. Despite his is offense, he still needs to demonstrate if he can defend and rebound.

** Nelly is quicker, wiser and more complete than I expected. He’s a little bit sloppy with the ball and I hope he’ll correct that. But I believe it’s more than possible that he’s an upgrade from Femi.

** As we know, @Matt Steinbrink was sitting courtside with his wonderful son, and he texted me afterward saying he likes the twins. It’s worth noting the Matt is usually pretty on the money with his assessments. But if Matt is right, I think the better bet is that they are a good 1-2 years away from being worthwhile contributors. The biggest issue is that both need to get much, much stronger. Their bodies are so slight that Clarion defenders basically push through the screens they set while that were also pushed away from the glass by smaller rebounders, especially in traffic.

** I’m also concerned about the lateral quickness of the twins. In man defense they were beaten easily off the dribble several times. I’ll keep an open mind, but against bigger stronger opponents of the ACC, I see it hard to see how that can provide any noteworthy production.

** Fede was almost invisible in the first half, but was the player of the second half with 10 points and 7 boards after the break. He doesn’t really have any offense to speak of, scoring only on power put backs, but at least he plays strong. My guess is that he’ll become the main understudy to John.

** It was nice to see Greg Elliott hit shots, because I think it proves he’s a legit piece for this team. He was also strong with perimeter traps along with Nelly, Nike, and Jamarius.

** In fact, Jamarius was probably the Panther’s best player, even if a significant step forward from last year wasn’t immediately evident. I’ll even say that I like Burton as a player, but after watching him through all of last year, I still have some fears that somehow his game takes away from others.

** Nate’s afternoon wasn’t disappointing, and he still has a wonderful release on his deep shot. But the Clarion defense was not best barometer to learn if he’s made any progress.

** Nike might have been the only guy on the team who performed below my expectations. He didn’t make mistakes, but he seemed less aggressive that I expected.

** I have no idea if Edinboro will provide even a little bit of a stronger test. I also have no idea how close Big John as Will are from getting to the court. I sure hope it is sooner than later. If this group has any real shot of finishing any kind of decent chunk higher in the ACC than the predicted #14 spot, we need to get everyone on board and working together as soon as possible.

Guillermo was often matched up with thicker/stronger players in FIBA. He got moved off his spots and pushed around but compensated with his length. His blocks were often after getting beat or moved off his spots.
 
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