Clemson Game & Other Dribbles ...

[DT_PITT]

** Well, I’ve never refrained from the ritual despite how dim things have looked. And there have been times that have actually looked dimmer than this. So I won’t back down now.

** But I don’t have much to offer. That was another very disappointing and disheartening loss.

** The only good thing that can be said about this loss is that it only counts as one of them.

** Still, this team does not look very good at all right now. And today, they didn’t look like a team who belongs in the NCAA Tournament.

** Our guys are not progressing. Certainly not on the defensive end.

** Nonetheless, there are more chances to demonstrate if this group can find some way to respond and make more of this season than might look possible at the moment.

** We’ve got two home games coming up. I look forward to going to both and doing my best to encourage the Panthers to improve.

** I hope my fellow Pitt Hoops fans will join me.

 

[Panthervision]

Pitt is extremely slow on the perimeter and not much strength in the post. Young can score. Artis at times can dribble penetrate. When other teams pressure Robinson, we are doomed. Smith and Jones at the 2G are below average in speed and strength.

I like Wilson getting more minutes. He is decent athletically, but still very raw.

I am extremely disappointed in the strength program. I can't point to one upper class player that has improved strength wise or speed over the past few years. Does anyone have any clue what happened to Beltz' strength program?

 

[PittPoker]

** Well, I’ve never refrained from the ritual despite how dim things have looked. And there have been times that have actually looked dimmer than this. So I won’t back down now.

** But I don’t have much to offer. That was another very disappointing and disheartening loss.

** The only good thing that can be said about this loss is that it only counts as one of them.

** Still, this team does not look very good at all right now. And today, they didn’t look like a team who belongs in the NCAA Tournament.

** Our guys are not progressing. Certainly not on the defensive end.

** Nonetheless, there are more chances to demonstrate if this group can find some way to respond and make more of this season than might look possible at the moment.

** We’ve got two home games coming up. I look forward to going to both and doing my best to encourage the Panthers to improve.

** I hope my fellow Pitt Hoops fans will join me.

Wow those were the shortest dribbles I can ever remember from you. Usually you will a find s silver lining or 2 to mention but honestly, there really wasn't any. Young showed up, Luther played well as a reserve but other than that it was a big stinker. I really though don't like this automatic substitution with Adodo coming in after Maia - what's the point when he offers nothing but an automatic foul or two? Tonight prime example, played well had the lead for the 1st 5 minutes with Maia in, gets taken out for Adodo during the tv timeout and then we seem immediately out of sync and start stinking up the place.

Also was pretty telling Robinson was on the bench near the end of the game for a little. Obviously I don't care for him but these performances of late(minus 2nd half of FSU where he made a few 3's) have been brutal. Heck at this point he's raw but let Wilson play more. Robinson missed every shot until the last couple minutes of the game - our senior point guard for heavens sake. Plus he was lazy with the ball - just horrible. AND WHY WON'T SMITH SHOOT THE BALL?? I don't get it. Luther should start.

 

[iMissTheOldDays]

One thing is pretty obvious to me , Artis does not want to play defense , ever.

 

[pittizit]

The team is just bad...you cant fix talent Jamie....and when you only have two against five...well this is the outcome.

 

[Wednesday Morning]

It's not going to fix everything, but Maia has to stay in as long as he can. He is by far our best rebounder and post defender. Jeter is pretty good at rebounding and post defense, too. But Young and Adoda are not good rebounders or post defenders. Maia is the only one that can bang with other ACC post players, but it's not enough. You need size in the front court and quickness in the backcourt in the ACC.

 

[MajorMajors]

Watching this game the strange thought struck me that perhaps Pitt is putting too much emphasis on practicing defense and not enough on offense. This team has to win with offense, but they are starting to take a lot more poor shots than they used to. Think of the first half of the North Carolina State game. Once we come down and have a few empty possessions because of poor shot selection, the team gets behind -- and with the below average defense -- the game is over.

And I think something that has encouraged the poor shot selection by Pitt is this freedom of movement stuff. Now it is advantageous to drive to the hoop - and probably get fouled. But we are driving to the hoop and not getting fouled and having to put up off-balance, awkward shots. We're not driving to the hoop and dishing well at all and we're not driving to the hoop and finishing well at all.

I say lets go back to running that Pitt offense where 9 out of 10 possessions we get a good shot - and things will improve.

Go Pitt.

 

[Harve74]

Pitt is extremely slow on the perimeter and not much strength in the post. Young can score. Artis at times can dribble penetrate. When other teams pressure Robinson, we are doomed. Smith and Jones at the 2G are below average in speed and strength.

I like Wilson getting more minutes. He is decent athletically, but still very raw.

I am extremely disappointed in the strength program. I can't point to one upper class player that has improved strength wise or speed over the past few years. Does anyone have any clue what happened to Beltz' strength program?

Mike Young and Jamel Artis have completely reshaped their bodes. Both were pudgy freshmen. Robinson is slso more buff. Jeter is stronger. Slim is stronger.

Before that, Patterson had a completely different body as a senior. Likewise Zanna. Likewise Travon Woodall. Joe Uchebo took off 40 or 50# last year. Derrick Randall, too.

This came up last year and I disagreed then and now.

 

[rockypanther]

I think getting sculpted is good but I think Artis and Young have leaned out too much.

 

[DruidTM]

Belch directs the weight program? Belch?

 

[PITTLAW]

I think getting sculpted is good but I think Artis and Young have leaned out too much.

Neither Young nor Artis are fond of physical play, particularly on the defensive side. Agree with Harve that they have totally different bodies [great improvement], but apparently the same frame of mind...which is not enjoying the dirty work or physical play. Artis additionally sulks when his shot is not falling, which only compounds the problem. Both guys are night and day better playing 4-3 this year compared to their 5-4 last year...but Pitt is still paying the price for Jamie's inability to get a couple of serviceable 5's in the program. Hail to Pitt!

 

[Harve74]

Neither Young nor Artis are fond of physical play, particularly on the defensive side. Agree with Harve that they have totally different bodies [great improvement], but apparently the same frame of mind...which is not enjoying the dirty work or physical play. Artis additionally sulks when his shot is not falling, which only compounds the problem. Both guys are night and day better playing 4-3 this year compared to their 5-4 last year...but Pitt is still paying the price for Jamie's inability to get a couple of serviceable 5's in the program. Hail to Pitt!

It is still a source of much surprise to me that Young and Artis are SO non-physical. When both were incoming freshmen, playing in the ProAm, both were involved in a series of games agsinst Duquesne's Ovie Soko that were basically street fights with whistles. Assault charges might have been brought. I would never have expected either to have a "soft" reputation 3 years later.

 

[DT_PITT]

It is still a source of much surprise to me that Young and Artis are SO non-physical. When both were incoming freshmen, playing in the ProAm, both were involved in a series of games agsinst Duquesne's Ovie Soko that were basically street fights with whistles. Assault charges might have been brought. I would never have expected either to have a "soft" reputation 3 years later.

Mike especially at the Pro Am. Soko started messing with Talib, actually and it was Mike who took him to task.

 

[Harve74]

Mike especially at the Pro Am. Soko started messing with Talib, actually and it was Mike who took him to task.

Mike is doing VERY well offensively but I'm pretty disappointed in his defense too. As a high school guy, he wasn't afraid to mix it up abd put his body on someone.

 

[rockypanther]

We really need to bring some of the alumni back to talk with them and scrimmage them and show them what physical is all about. Where is Zavackas?

 

[King Of All Message Boards]

We really need to bring some of the alumni back to talk with them and scrimmage them and show them what physical is all about. Where is Zavackas?

My guess is sitting somewhere with his shoes off pouting.

Chevy would be a much better choice for what you're suggesting. And Fella of course.

And it probably can't be taught anyway. Knight and Lett were pretty tough in their own right and this team is just doughy soft.

 

[rockypanther]

Yeah I was joking about Zavackas although he was a nut job. How about Yuri Demtrious

 

[King Of All Message Boards]

Yeah I was joking about Zavackas although he was a nut job. How about Yuri Demtrious

Yuri might be better suited to try to toughen up the women's team.

 

[rockypanther]

I think the whole AAU crap has protected kids way too much. I also think kids now are either pampered and/or don't know hard work. I never see kids anywhere outside on courts or in their driveway working on their game.

I would go out when I was a kid for hours after shoveling snow in 20 degree weather to work on my jump shot. I didn't have some warm gym with an AAU coach, unlimited access to camps and tourneys. a personal trainer, 3 handlers.

Give me the Black Magic(Krauser) or K Rucker (Keith Benjamin) or Chevy whose father was locked up in prison and who came from a tough background. Hell I will take Mark McCarrol at this point over what we have at the 5 spot. Those gritty tough street type guys is what we need so bad.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

Physical play now a days gets you fouls which earns you a place on the bench! I'd be willing to bet you a lot of $ that both are substantially stronger now than when they came here. When you face someone whose naturally bigger and stronger than you guess what their bigger and stronger than you . That's why weight classes in boxing and wrestling are 8lbs ( I think ) . THEY NEED A TRUE CENTER like NIX to creat space and to lean on the other teams big man or someone 6'11" with long arms.

 

[rockypanther]

Physical play doesn't mean fouling. It can also mean beating your man to the spot in the post and using your lower body to move to maintain position. Physical play can also mean not going over the back on o rebound but locating an opponent and putting your butt into him like Blair used to do. Physical play also means though at times delivering a foul that counts. I don't mean to try and cause injury but to show you are not weak and intimidated. Remember how Thabeet fell apart mentally when Blair snapped him in half. Physical means not going up for a layup or taking a short pull up when you can slam it home. Physical play means a lot more than just fouling.

 

[Wednesday Morning]

If you look at our rebounds per 40 minutes. Maia and Jeter are our best two rebounders at 12.3 and 12.1, respectively. And unfortunately both were not on the floor for long stretches last night. Clemson had one guy that was at 16.1. Mike Young is at 9.5 and Adoda is at 8.2. Who you think is going to win that battle? And Young was our center last year.

TANGENT ALERT:

Young is a good scorer, ball handler, passer, and creator, and even if he's a willing rebounder, he's just not physical enough against true ACC level rebounders. Plus he's an ineffective defender. He likes to float to the perimeter more nowadays.

His scouting report coming in according to ESP was he was rare young post player in that he was strictly a post player that knew his role and didn't stray away from that script.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Yuri might be better suited to try to toughen up the women's team.

He's here all week folks! Try the veal.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

This team has rapidly drained me.

The defense, or lack of is just mindblowing. One thing we know about defense, in many cases, it is athleticism that lends itself to good defense. But also positioning and want to.

My biggest disappointment is JRob. Who is the perfect example of all of these analytics that geeks try to explain the game, his Assist to TO ratio is great, but he doesn't create offense. When you create, you are going to have to go into tough areas to drive or draw, and those tend to cause the occasional TO. It is like a QB who throws the ball downfield vs one who just dumps the ball off constantly. One has a higher completion % and a lower interception %, but the other actually makes plays.

We also seem to have gone back to some older habits, standing around on the perimeter admiring our jumpshots. We aren't cutting, moving and the passing that made us look like Pitt basketball up until that L'ville game has disappeared.

Maybe we are in a slump. We have peaked many times in January. Maybe this a lull.

What else can you say?

 

[Harve74]

If you look at our rebounds per 40 minutes. Maia and Jeter are our best two rebounders at 12.3 and 12.1, respectively. And unfortunately both were not on the floor for long stretches last night. Clemson had one guy that was at 16.1. Mike Young is at 9.5 and Adoda is at 8.2. Who you think is going to win that battle? And Young was our center last year.

TANGENT ALERT:

Young is a good scorer, ball handler, passer, and creator, and even if he's a willing rebounder, he's just not physical enough against true ACC level rebounders. Plus he's an ineffective defender. He likes to float to the perimeter more nowadays.

His scouting report coming in according to ESP was he was rare young post player in that he was strictly a post player that knew his role and didn't stray away from that script.

You are right about Young and a bit wrong at the same time. Not necessarily you, but a lazy scouting report from ESPN.

Young as a senior was almost exactly as described, EXCEPT he was also 2nd on his team in 3-pointers. He used to set up outside a few times each quarter and if the opposing big didn't cover him, he'd shoot a long shot. If they did come out, he'd spin to the rim. I guess the ESPN guy thought that part of his game was a passing fad. Instead, that finesse play BECAME his game.

I was laid up rehabbing my knee replacement when he led his team to the National Invitational High School championship finals. I watched every game. He held his own with the best young bigs in the country, mostly with canny up and under moves and strong post moves, despite often giving up several inches. He was a bit pudgy and had that big butt characteristic of many good rebounders and low post players. He was a physical battler.

He came to Pitt and literally worked his butt off. He is a completely different player, a possible NBA combo forward, which is great for him but not so great for us. The physicality has vanished.

With Young and Artis, I think Jamie thought he had recruited another Zanna/Patterson pair to build around. He actually got perhaps MORE scoring but less of everything else.

It is what it is. They are the core of the team.As I said even last season, we're only going where those two can take us.

 

[Wednesday Morning]

I agree. I was one of the JRob bashers coming into this season. Then, he pleasantly surprised with some of his aggressiveness and nice setup passes (not just simple passes). I was really excited about JRob’s play earlier. But as he began shooting more, you can see he is a bad shooter. Streaky is a kind description. If he misses his first jump shot, he’s done for the game.

He’s never been a drive-draw-dish type of point guard while here. He’s a great finisher though when he gets to the hoop. He’s always been more game manager than play maker, which does provide a calming influence on the team, but in my opinion, if all you can do is calm down an offense, then you are a back-up point guard. The starter has to be both a playmaker and game manager.