College Cup

[Sean Miller Fan]

2 Pitt opponents are in the Final Four. UNC and Akron. In fact, Akron and Indiana (who is playing UNC right now) are 2 great examples of premier programs in areas of the country who don't produce enough major D1 talent but have established "blue blood" level status due to excellent coaching and recruiting. Hopefully, Vidovich can do the same at Pitt.

But, what's up with the NCAA refusing to do away with the Friday night/Sunday afternoon Final Four format. For years, coaches and players have complained that isn't enough recovery time, only 36-40 hours between games. Granted, you can substitute liberally in college soccer but soccer is a sport that requires so much running, the body needs much more time than that to recover. I get that the NCAA doesn't want to pay for 2 teams to stay the extra day and play Thursday/Sunday but at what point do they have to start caring about student-athletes?

Speaking of not caring about student-athletes, for years, coaches have lobbies to spread the games between 2 semesters with a break from about Thanksgiving to March and have the NCAAT in May so it can follow a normal August-May soccer calendar. MLS and US Soccer had even pushed for this but the NCAA wont allow it.

The coaches want it
The players want it
MLS wants it
US Soccer wants it

The NCAA does not

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Actually it's possible that in the next rule change cycle, which I believe is next year, the men will switch to the two semester calendar. However it is possible that the women will not, and the reason for that is that apparently a large percentage of the women's coaches and players actually do NOT favor the two semester model.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

"The Division I women’s soccer coaches have shown only moderate interest in pursuing a two semester model, and results from the NCAA Time Demands survey affirm this, as 87% of head coaches completed the survey, with 50% (42% from A 5 conferences) indicating support for a two semester season. 4592 Division I women’s soccer players responded to the survey with 17% indicating support for a two semester model."

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Actually it's possible that in the next rule change cycle, which I believe is next year, the men will switch to the two semester calendar. However it is possible that the women will not, and the reason for that is that apparently a large percentage of the women's coaches and players actually do NOT favor the two semester model.

Right. The women don't want it and quite frankly, don't need it. Very few countries in the world make a financial commitment to women's soccer so the US women are only competing against 4-5 other countries. They don't need to play August-May to remain competitive internationally.

For the vast majority of female D1 soccer players, there are no aspirations of being a pro. There aren't those opportunities so they'd rather be a regular student 9 months a year. For the men, most dream of being a pro, even if its just in the USL or another lower league so they don't mind the August-May calendar because that will help their game.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

For the vast majority of female D1 soccer players, there are no aspirations of being a pro.

For the vast majority of male D1 soccer players, there are no aspirations of being a pro.

 

[Pitt79]

A lot of them play "pro" while in college. I'm not sure how "semi Pro" works. There's a new team in Baltimore this summer, they call it semi pro. Called Baltimore FC, They claim a lot of the team will be local D1 players from ACC Schools, UMBC, Cinncinati in the NPSL. The NPSL is unofficially considered to fall in the fourth tier of the country’s professional soccer umbrella, under Major League Soccer, North America Soccer League and United Soccer League. I guess I don't understand how they are somehow pro and retain NCAA eligibility?

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/soccer/bs-sp-baltimore-fc-soccer-1208-story.html

Anyways, if it's played somewhere near where I live, I might go check out a game.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

For the vast majority of female D1 soccer players, there are no aspirations of being a pro.

For the vast majority of male D1 soccer players, there are no aspirations of being a pro.

I would say that for players recruited to the "major D1" conferences, they pretty much all have aspirations of being a pro somewhere. I remember in an old Triblive radio with Jay Vidovich when he first took over, it was asked which of the players (which were Luxbacher guys at the time) had aspirations to play professionally. He said something like most had aspirations but whether those would be realistic is a different story. Now, a guy that RMU is signing, yea, maybe that guy doesn't really aspire to make MLS or even USL.

A reply to Pitt79:

NCAA players can play in the PDL, which is semi-pro, I believe. I think some non-college players can be paid while current college players obviously cannot. Pittsburgh has 1-2 of these teams.

Im not as familiar with NPSL but I'm sure its similar.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

A lot of them play "pro" while in college. I'm not sure how "semi Pro" works. There's a new team in Baltimore this summer, they call it semi pro. Called Baltimore FC, They claim a lot of the team will be local D1 players from ACC Schools, UMBC, Cinncinati in the NPSL. The NPSL is unofficially considered to fall in the fourth tier of the country’s professional soccer umbrella, under Major League Soccer, North America Soccer League and United Soccer League. I guess I don't understand how they are somehow pro and retain NCAA eligibility?

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/soccer/bs-sp-baltimore-fc-soccer-1208-story.html

Anyways, if it's played somewhere near where I live, I might go check out a game.

I'm not positive, but I am pretty sure that the NPSL is strictly amateurs. None of their players get paid.

NCAA players can play in the PDL, which is semi-pro, I believe. I think some non-college players can be paid while current college players obviously cannot. Pittsburgh has 1-2 of these teams.

Teams that have college players on them CANNOT have anyone on the team who is getting paid. That would be an NCAA violation. There are some PDL teams that do pay some of their players, but those teams are not allowed to have any players with college eligibility play for them. You can play AGAINST professional players but you cannot play WITH professional players.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

A lot of them play "pro" while in college. I'm not sure how "semi Pro" works. There's a new team in Baltimore this summer, they call it semi pro. Called Baltimore FC, They claim a lot of the team will be local D1 players from ACC Schools, UMBC, Cinncinati in the NPSL. The NPSL is unofficially considered to fall in the fourth tier of the country’s professional soccer umbrella, under Major League Soccer, North America Soccer League and United Soccer League. I guess I don't understand how they are somehow pro and retain NCAA eligibility?

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/soccer/bs-sp-baltimore-fc-soccer-1208-story.html

Anyways, if it's played somewhere near where I live, I might go check out a game.

I'm not positive, but I am pretty sure that the NPSL is strictly amateurs. None of their players get paid.

NCAA players can play in the PDL, which is semi-pro, I believe. I think some non-college players can be paid while current college players obviously cannot. Pittsburgh has 1-2 of these teams.

Teams that have college players on them CANNOT have anyone on the team who is getting paid. That would be an NCAA violation. There are some PDL teams that do pay some of their players, but those teams are not allowed to have any players with college eligibility play for them. You can play AGAINST professional players but you cannot play WITH professional players.

But Europeans can?

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

But Europeans can?

Honestly I am not sure what in the heck the NCAA is doing that is allowing some of the European kids to be eligible to play here. Maybe they only consider games with the full squad to be professional games and if they play for the U23s or the U18s they can still play college soccer. I would actually think that some of the European kids that have come over and played college soccer not only played with professionals but they technically were professionals themselves.

 

[persp]

Teams that have college players on them CANNOT have anyone on the team who is getting paid. That would be an NCAA violation. There are some PDL teams that do pay some of their players, but those teams are not allowed to have any players with college eligibility play for them. You can play AGAINST professional players but you cannot play WITH professional players.

I don't think this is true. There are many adult baseball leagues, like the Daily News League out of Mckeesport, that have rosters littered with college players in the summer. Those leagues are considered semi-pro because players can be paid. Doesn't mean that they are, but they can be. There are a few players in that league that get "paid" ( could be as little as a 6 pack per game), but it only matters that the college player isn't paid. Probably the case with soccer too. Likely that those players aren't being being paid while technically playing pro, but maybe they are. I don't know.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

I don't think this is true. There are many adult baseball leagues, like the Daily News League out of Mckeesport, that have rosters littered with college players in the summer. Those leagues are considered semi-pro because players can be paid. Doesn't mean that they are, but they can be. There are a few players in that league that get "paid" ( could be as little as a 6 pack per game), but it only matters that the college player isn't paid. Probably the case with soccer too. Likely that those players aren't being being paid while technically playing pro, but maybe they are. I don't know.

As PDL seasons take place during the summer months, the player pool is drawn mainly from elite NCAA college soccer and NAIA college soccer players seeking to continue playing high-level soccer during their summer break, which they can do while still maintaining their college eligibility, as the PDL is not considered a "professional" league.[30]

In recent years, teams such as Laredo Heat, New Orleans Jesters, Vancouver Whitecaps FC U-23, Kitsap Pumas and the Hollywood United Hitmen have been embracing at least partial professionalism through a new program called PDL-Pro, whereby teams can choose to employ players who are paid for their performances,[31] but who still meet the age eligibility criteria. This does not contravene NCAA rules, which state that college players cannot play alongside professionals, but may play against them. What this also means, however, is that PDL-Pro teams cannot have any active NCAA players on their rosters, but may employ NAIA and community college players, ex-NCAA players who have already graduated, or other local players who do not play college soccer at all.
​

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Practice Without Competition
Following initial full-time collegiate enrollment, an individual may participate in practice sessions conducted by a professional team, provided such participation meets the requirements of NCAA legislation governing tryouts with professional athletics teams
and the individual does not:
(a) Receive any compensation for participation in the practice sessions;
(b) Enter into any contract or agreement with a professional team or sports organization; or
(c) Take part in any outside competition (games or scrimmages) as a representative of a professional team.

Competition Against Professionals
An individual may participate singly or as a member of an amateur team against professional athletes or
professional teams.

Competition With Professionals
Following initial full-time collegiate enrollment, an individual shall not be eligible for intercollegiate athletics in a sport, if the individual competed on a professional athletics team in that sport.
However, an individual may compete on a tennis, golf, two-person sand volleyball or two-person synchronized diving team(s) with persons who are competing for cash or a comparable prize, provided the individual does not receive payment of any kind for such participation.

*Professional Player as a Team Member*
Following initial full-time collegiate enrollment, an individual may participate with a professional on a team, provided the professional is not being paid by a professional team or league to play as a member of that team (e.g., summer basketball leagues with teams composed of both professional and amateur athletes.

 

[Pitt79]

Read the article, it calls Baltimore FC and the NPSL, SEMI-pro, I've never been sure what that means?

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

But Europeans can?

Honestly I am not sure what in the heck the NCAA is doing that is allowing some of the European kids to be eligible to play here. Maybe they only consider games with the full squad to be professional games and if they play for the U23s or the U18s they can still play college soccer. I would actually think that some of the European kids that have come over and played college soccer not only played with professionals but they technically were professionals themselves.

Yea, Pol Plannelas played 19 games for Barcelona B. It would be very hard to believe he wasn't paid and wasn't playing with professionals.

 

[Pitt79]

How about some of the college basketball players who came up through the European academies and pro clubs? Did they get paid?

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

How about some of the college basketball players who came up through the European academies and pro clubs? Did they get paid?

They're not allowed to be paid but I think they can play with professionals

 

[Pitt79]

They're not allowed to be paid but I think they can play with professionals

You know some of these clubs, especially Barcelona, Real Madrid (Spain), Olympiakos, Panathinaikos (Greece), Fenerbache, Galtasaray (Turkey), CSKA Moscow, they are as big in basketball as they are in soccer, and they use the same development model as soccer, I knew a guy who played in the Olympiakos basketball system from like age 6-18, at that point he wasn't good enough to continue.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Read the article, it calls Baltimore FC and the NPSL, SEMI-pro, I've never been sure what that means?

They can call it whatever they want, that doesn't make it so. Semi-pro would mean that some (but probably not all) of the players were getting paid. If that was the case then they wouldn't be allowed to have NCAA players on those teams. And that is not the case.


What Makes the NPSL Unique?

• Professionally operated teams
• Teams comprised of players holding amateur playing status (high school, collegiate and former professional athletes)
• Players maintain college eligibility and play at an elite level with a mix of young and veteran players

Right there that tells you that none of the players are getting paid. If none of the players are getting paid it's not semi-pro, no matter what the people who wrote the story say. My guess is that they are using semi-pro to mean that some of the players are no longer in college and have used up all of their eligibility, and that maybe some of them got paid in the past but aren't getting paid now. But that isn't what semi-pro actually means.

The NPSL is an amateur league. If it wasn't high school and college kids wouldn't be able to play there and still be eligible to play in the NCAA.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Read the article, it calls Baltimore FC and the NPSL, SEMI-pro, I've never been sure what that means?

They can call it whatever they want, that doesn't make it so. Semi-pro would mean that some (but probably not all) of the players were getting paid. If that was the case then they wouldn't be allowed to have NCAA players on those teams. And that is not the case.


What Makes the NPSL Unique?

• Professionally operated teams
• Teams comprised of players holding amateur playing status (high school, collegiate and former professional athletes)
• Players maintain college eligibility and play at an elite level with a mix of young and veteran players

Right there that tells you that none of the players are getting paid. If none of the players are getting paid it's not semi-pro, no matter what the people who wrote the story say. My guess is that they are using semi-pro to mean that some of the players are no longer in college and have used up all of their eligibility, and that maybe some of them got paid in the past but aren't getting paid now. But that isn't what semi-pro actually means.

The NPSL is an amateur league. If it wasn't high school and college kids wouldn't be able to play there and still be eligible to play in the NCAA.

I think some people just use the term semi-pro loosely to make people believe the level is higher than what it is. I know a guy that plays in one of those local adult baseball leagues. He claims he gets paid and I highly, highly doubt it. Where is the money coming from? There is no admission charge and no TV deal. Maybe some company sponsors them so maybe he gets a free uniform? There's no way they are getting paid. Same goes for those local adult football leagues.

I think NPSL probably uses semi-pro because the teams are treated and marketed like pro minor league teams. Admission, TV deals in some cases, advertising, etc

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

I think some people just use the term semi-pro loosely to make people believe the level is higher than what it is. I know a guy that plays in one of those local adult baseball leagues. He claims he gets paid and I highly, highly doubt it. Where is the money coming from? There is no admission charge and no TV deal. Maybe some company sponsors them so maybe he gets a free uniform? There's no way they are getting paid. Same goes for those local adult football leagues.

I think NPSL probably uses semi-pro because the teams are treated and marketed like pro minor league teams. Admission, TV deals in some cases, advertising, etc

Yeah, I think that's right. They want people to think that they aren't just essentially a bunch of guys who got together to play some games, so they call themselves semi-pros. They are pretty much using the term to mean a step above the college level, even though in many cases that isn't really true, to try and market the games as being something more than they are.

Which is fine. I think we all know that people use words for marketing that aren't technically true all the time. But in this instance it's pretty clear that no one on those teams are getting paid, because of the NCAA aspect of it.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

I think some people just use the term semi-pro loosely to make people believe the level is higher than what it is. I know a guy that plays in one of those local adult baseball leagues. He claims he gets paid and I highly, highly doubt it. Where is the money coming from? There is no admission charge and no TV deal. Maybe some company sponsors them so maybe he gets a free uniform? There's no way they are getting paid. Same goes for those local adult football leagues.

I think NPSL probably uses semi-pro because the teams are treated and marketed like pro minor league teams. Admission, TV deals in some cases, advertising, etc

Yeah, I think that's right. They want people to think that they aren't just essentially a bunch of guys who got together to play some games, so they call themselves semi-pros. They are pretty much using the term to mean a step above the college level, even though in many cases that isn't really true, to try and market the games as being something more than they are.

Which is fine. I think we all know that people use words for marketing that aren't technically true all the time. But in this instance it's pretty clear that no one on those teams are getting paid, because of the NCAA aspect of it.

College basketball players are allowed to play with professional players in summer leagues. And the NCAA allowed Jordan Morris to play on a professional team (USMNT) and maintain eligibility because he didn't accept payment. Its hard to keep their rules straight.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

College basketball players are allowed to play with professional players in summer leagues. And the NCAA allowed Jordan Morris to play on a professional team (USMNT) and maintain eligibility because he didn't accept payment. Its hard to keep their rules straight.

There is actually an explicit exemption in the NCAA rules for things like summer basketball leagues where the guys who are professional players are not getting paid for those games. There isn't an explicit exemption for national team play, but the NCAA has always given exemptions for that, going back a very long time.