Comparing Jordan Whitehead to Damar Hamlin Player Impact

[steel_curtain]

Entering Pitt

Whitehead
5'11
175lb
4.57 40 time
4.06 Shuttle-Flat out Dominant
31 inch vertical
33 Power Throw

Hamlin
6'1
185lb
4.5 40 time
4.11 Shuttle-Flat out Dominant
30 inch vertical
39 Power Throw



-Dominant, both of them, across the board. Its no surprise multiple sources are stating Hamlin will have one of the biggest freshmen impacts in the ACC. A 4.11 Shuttle at 6'1 is ridiculous good.


Here is Lamont Wade. Solid, but not anywhere near the level of the 2 above. Lacks in size and the Shuttle time for a 5'9 DB is average at best. Wade is clearly the 4th best player between Whitehead, Hamlin, and Paris Ford.

Lamont Wade
5'9
4.57 40 time
4.56 Shuttle
30 inch vertical
33 Power Throw


-The point here, Damar Hamlin, with offers from every school in the country, a completely dominant senior season, and stats and measureables to back it up as having an immediate major impact as a freshmen.

 

[Piranha]

Entering Pitt

Whitehead
5'11
175lb
4.57 40 time
4.06 Shuttle-Flat out Dominant
31 inch vertical
33 Power Throw

Hamlin
6'1
185lb
4.5 40 time
4.11 Shuttle-Flat out Dominant
30 inch vertical
39 Power Throw



-Dominant, both of them, across the board. Its no surprise multiple sources are stating Hamlin will have one of the biggest freshmen impacts in the ACC. A 4.11 Shuttle at 6'1 is ridiculous good.


Here is Lamont Wade. Solid, but not anywhere near the level of the 2 above. Lacks in size and the Shuttle time for a 5'9 DB is average at best. Wade is clearly the 4th best player between Whitehead, Hamlin, and Paris Ford.

Lamont Wade
5'9
4.57 40 time
4.56 Shuttle
30 inch vertical
33 Power Throw


-The point here, Damar Hamlin, with offers from every school in the country, a completely dominant senior season, and stats and measureables to back it up as having an immediate major impact as a freshmen.

I would add Coleman onto the list of local DB's I would place ahead of Wade. Coleman is going to surprise a lot of people. Wade ran 11.13 100m at the track championships. He is a good player, but how much growth potential is there? He is 5-9 185lbs. I think he is a kid who developed early, and other players are going to pass him up at CB as time goes on. IMO - Safety or RB would be Wade's best options long-term.

 

[FieldHouse12]

when and who is next to commit ?

 

[Piranha]

when and who is next to commit ?

Hopefully the QB - Kenny Pickett. It is down to BC and us, and a decision could come soon.

 

[QuitCallingMeWanny]

steel I love your passion man but measurables have nothing to do with what they will be on the field as FOOTBALL players

 

[Swervin27]

We need to invent a hip fluidity metric.

 

[President Stache]

Numbers are great and all... but certainly doesnt tell the full story of a player.

Really I dont think anyone could have foreseen Whitehead, Boyd oe Ollison make the impact they did. If you did, you were just hoping beyond hope. It isnt common, and we have been pretty lucky. The main thing is we put Freshmen in position to be great, and that is all you can ask for if you are an incoming superstar.

 

[steel_curtain]

Numbers are great and all... but certainly doesnt tell the full story of a player.

Really I dont think anyone could have foreseen Whitehead, Boyd oe Ollison make the impact they did. If you did, you were just hoping beyond hope. It isnt common, and we have been pretty lucky. The main thing is we put Freshmen in position to be great, and that is all you can ask for if you are an incoming superstar.

-Numbers dont lie. When you have NFL caliber numbers entering college, good things are bound to happen. If you want to rate a player a 3 Star when he has Elite numbers, that is a websites business. There is a reason the NFL combine exists, sparq Ratings exist, and the US Army Combine exists. Speed, Power, Athletic Ability, these things matter a lot.

 

[President Stache]

Never said it didnt matter... just said it doesnt mean the player is good. Just means they are athletic.

 

[vegasgreed]

whitehead had a damn good season. he just doesn't have the ability but he is totally focused and seems to "get it". hopefully hamlin is in the same boat.

coleman will be really good as well.

 

[Pantherman43]

whitehead had a damn good season. he just doesn't have the ability but he is totally focused and seems to "get it". hopefully hamlin is in the same boat.

coleman will be really good as well.

Whitehead has a man among boys look to him. I thought the same of Aaron Donald especially his last year here. The tackle/sack at duke (wrapping up two in the backfield) he had was one of the more impressive individual defensive plays I've seen by a player in a Pitt uniform in a long time.

If Hamlin is anywhere close to these two then I'll be very happy.

 

[sherepower]

Frankly, number mean zilch! When making the transition to high school to college. Everybody, has talent at that level. It all boils down to who wants it the most.

There have been sooooooo many physical freaks over the years who don't do anything. Its all about who wants to be the best. Who takes to coaching. Who still LOVES the game. And those who refuse to fail. The mental aspect is as much if not more important than athletic abilities and numbers. Believe me!

 

[steel_curtain]

Frankly, number mean zilch! When making the transition to high school to college. Everybody, has talent at that level. It all boils down to who wants it the most.

There have been sooooooo many physical freaks over the years who don't do anything. Its all about who wants to be the best. Who takes to coaching. Who still LOVES the game. And those who refuse to fail. The mental aspect is as much if not more important than athletic abilities and numbers. Believe me!

-Honest question. Which physical freaks that went to Pitt in the last 10 years were flat out busts with NFL combine type numbers. The fact is Pitt has been slow the last 10 years outside of a few players. We have not recruited Elite Speed in forever.

 

[rockypanther]

We haven't had any real athletic freaks in a long time that posted great combine numbers. Maybe Scorin Dorin. Aaron Donald. That's all I got.

 

[steel_curtain]

We haven't had any real athletic freaks in a long time that posted great combine numbers. Maybe Scorin Dorin. Aaron Donald. That's all I got.

-That's my point. When is the last recruiting Class Pitt had that had the type of Speed, athletic ability, and Power of George Hill, Maurice Ffrench, Damar Hamlin, Amir Watts, Keshon Camp, TMAC, Therran Coleman, Ruben Flowers, and maybe Phil Campbell and Moss?

-If you look hard at the last 10 classes, it just isnt there.

-Boyd's 40 time was a 4.58.

 

[rockypanther]

-That's my point. When is the last recruiting Class Pitt had that had the type of Speed, athletic ability, and Power of George Hill, Maurice Ffrench, Damar Hamlin, Amir Watts, Keshon Camp, TMAC, Therran Coleman, Ruben Flowers, and maybe Phil Campbell and Moss?

-If you look hard at the last 10 classes, it just isnt there.

-Boyd's 40 time was a 4.58.

I am agreeing with you.

 

[yc_ballcat]

I'm not sold on Hamlin as an impact freshman. Whitehead was totally dynamic on both sides of the ball in HS. It was obvious he could play anywhere on the field. Hamlin is much more of a specialist. That's not to imply a negative, but perhaps there's less margin for error in making an immediate impact. He'll need to be off-the charts in coverage, because I just don't see him mixing it up and tackling like Whitehead. Hamlin might match Whitehead's speed but I doubt he'll match his fluidity. Watching Central Catholic, Ronnie Jones struck me as a more fluid athlete.

 

[Piranha]

Frankly, number mean zilch! When making the transition to high school to college. Everybody, has talent at that level. It all boils down to who wants it the most.

There have been sooooooo many physical freaks over the years who don't do anything. Its all about who wants to be the best. Who takes to coaching. Who still LOVES the game. And those who refuse to fail. The mental aspect is as much if not more important than athletic abilities and numbers. Believe me!

You are absolutely correct!

 

[Piranha]

I'm not sold on Hamlin as an impact freshman. Whitehead was totally dynamic on both sides of the ball in HS. It was obvious he could play anywhere on the field. Hamlin is much more of a specialist. That's not to imply a negative, but perhaps there's less margin for error in making an immediate impact. He'll need to be off-the charts in coverage, because I just don't see him mixing it up and tackling like Whitehead. Hamlin might match Whitehead's speed but I doubt he'll match his fluidity. Watching Central Catholic, Ronnie Jones struck me as a more fluid athlete.

Agreed - Whitehead is at a different level (mentally and physically). I think people should temper their enthusiasm if they expect Hamlin to make the same impact as a Fr.

 

[PittPharmacy1989]

I disagree with those that say numbers don't mean anything. They obviously don't tell the entire story and can't be perfect at predicting success but reality is without those really good numbers it is difficult to be a standout player. You can be good or solid but rarely a standout. Those numbers mean Hamlin will be able to run with most receivers. He will be strong enough to tackle and quick enough to make a play on the ball when it's in the air. How many times have we seen a CB beaten by just a step and it cost us a long TD?

A player like Hamlin has the tools necessary to be great but he'll also need the passion, the work ethic and football intelligence. If he has those traits and is willing to be coachable, with his numbers he will be one of our best CB's in a long time.

 

[steel_curtain]

I'm not sold on Hamlin as an impact freshman. Whitehead was totally dynamic on both sides of the ball in HS. It was obvious he could play anywhere on the field. Hamlin is much more of a specialist. That's not to imply a negative, but perhaps there's less margin for error in making an immediate impact. He'll need to be off-the charts in coverage, because I just don't see him mixing it up and tackling like Whitehead. Hamlin might match Whitehead's speed but I doubt he'll match his fluidity. Watching Central Catholic, Ronnie Jones struck me as a more fluid athlete.

-4.09 Shuttle Time. Some of you guys are insane with expectations.

 

[thebadby2]

-Honest question. Which physical freaks that went to Pitt in the last 10 years were flat out busts with NFL combine type numbers. The fact is Pitt has been slow the last 10 years outside of a few players. We have not recruited Elite Speed in forever.

One off the top of my head: Jester Weah. Tremendous athlete, track star, big vertical, not a football player.

Measurables matter for sure, but they don't tell the whole story. I can think of numerous examples from my own playing days of physical, athletic specimens who weren't half the players that other guys with lesser atnleticism were.

When you put the measurables together with the natural instincts, toughness and mental elements, you get that elite player. Whitehead, Conner, Donald, etc. Those kinds of athletes stand out from everyone else from the day they first pick up a ball as little kids.

 

[steel_curtain]

One off the top of my head: Jester Weah. Tremendous athlete, track star, big vertical, not a football player.

Measurables matter for sure, but they don't tell the whole story. I can think of numerous examples from my own playing days of physical, athletic specimens who weren't half the players that other guys with lesser atnleticism were.

When you put the measurables together with the natural instincts, toughness and mental elements, you get that elite player. Whitehead, Conner, Donald, etc. Those kinds of athletes stand out from everyone else from the day they first pick up a ball as little kids.

-Here are Jester Weah's test results. Come at me with something better.

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/football/recruiting/player/combine/_/id/162716/jester-weah

4.79 Shuttle and 4.54 40 time, Complete Garbage Shuttle.

 

[vegasgreed]

weah has zero catches as a football player. zero. if you cannot catch the football, nothing else matters.

wr is one of the easiest positions in college football to make an impact early.

 

[KennyTheKangaroo]

In the wanny era, Buddy Jackson was the fastest guy on the team for like 8 years running. I guess he ran a 4.37 at his pro day?

 

[drunkinoakland]

I'm not sold on Hamlin as an impact freshman. Whitehead was totally dynamic on both sides of the ball in HS. It was obvious he could play anywhere on the field. Hamlin is much more of a specialist. That's not to imply a negative, but perhaps there's less margin for error in making an immediate impact. He'll need to be off-the charts in coverage, because I just don't see him mixing it up and tackling like Whitehead. Hamlin might match Whitehead's speed but I doubt he'll match his fluidity. Watching Central Catholic, Ronnie Jones struck me as a more fluid athlete.

I think Hamlin will start most of the year but I also highly doubt he has anywhere near the impact Whitehead did.

 

[9nationalchampionships]

Starting at S as a true freshman is hard. Starting at CB as s true freshman is harder.

 

[thebadby2]

-Here are Jester Weah's test results. Come at me with something better.

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/football/recruiting/player/combine/_/id/162716/jester-weah

4.79 Shuttle and 4.54 40 time, Complete Garbage Shuttle.

If you're trying to say Weah isn't an elite level athlete based on his ESPN reported shuttle time at one recruiting combine, you're wrong. By the way, that same site lists Whitehead as a 4.57 40 with a lesser vertical than Weah. Weah is a world class athlete and a physical freak. One year of track in HS and he dominated the sprint events. Again, at least to this point, he hasn't shown that he's much of a football player:

Weah will try to make Wisconsin track and field history Friday and Saturday at the state championships at Wisconsin-Lacrosse University. He is the No. 1 seed in the 100-meter run and No. 3 in the 200, with school-record times of 10.59 and 21.94 seconds — in his first full year of running track. Had he been running in Pennsylvania, Weah's 10.59 time would have won the state championship in 13 of the past 17 years. Among those Pennsylvanians whose championship times were inferior to Weah's were Meyers' Raghib Ismail, who played at Notre Dame and in the NFL (10.63, 1988); former Erie Tech and Pitt wide receiver Dietrich Jells (10.83, 1989); North Hills star Andrew Johnson (10.67, 2003); former Pitt defensive back Tommie Campbell of Aliquippa (10.65, 2005); and current Pitt cornerback Trenton Coles of Clairton (11.15, 2011).
***
Madison Memorial senior Jester Weah christened the track by breaking the meet record in the individual 100-meter dash, finishing in 10.4 seconds.
***
Jester Weah, Madison Memorial boys track and field, moved into second place all-time in the 55-meter dash on Saturday. Weah is this week's PlayintheDells.com Splash of the Week recipient. Weah ran a 6.38 55-meter dash at the Madison West Relays on Saturday to move into second place in state's history of the event.

 

[steel_curtain]

If you're trying to say Weah isn't an elite level athlete based on his ESPN reported shuttle time at one recruiting combine, you're wrong. By the way, that same site lists Whitehead as a 4.57 40 with a lesser vertical than Weah. Weah is a world class athlete and a physical freak. One year of track in HS and he dominated the sprint events. Again, at least to this point, he hasn't shown that he's much of a football player:

Weah will try to make Wisconsin track and field history Friday and Saturday at the state championships at Wisconsin-Lacrosse University. He is the No. 1 seed in the 100-meter run and No. 3 in the 200, with school-record times of 10.59 and 21.94 seconds — in his first full year of running track. Had he been running in Pennsylvania, Weah's 10.59 time would have won the state championship in 13 of the past 17 years. Among those Pennsylvanians whose championship times were inferior to Weah's were Meyers' Raghib Ismail, who played at Notre Dame and in the NFL (10.63, 1988); former Erie Tech and Pitt wide receiver Dietrich Jells (10.83, 1989); North Hills star Andrew Johnson (10.67, 2003); former Pitt defensive back Tommie Campbell of Aliquippa (10.65, 2005); and current Pitt cornerback Trenton Coles of Clairton (11.15, 2011).
***
Madison Memorial senior Jester Weah christened the track by breaking the meet record in the individual 100-meter dash, finishing in 10.4 seconds.
***
Jester Weah, Madison Memorial boys track and field, moved into second place all-time in the 55-meter dash on Saturday. Weah is this week's PlayintheDells.com Splash of the Week recipient. Weah ran a 6.38 55-meter dash at the Madison West Relays on Saturday to move into second place in state's history of the event.

-Speed is measured in a number of ways. He can run in a straight line, but his shuttle time suggests his change of speed and direction is average at best. Whitehead had a 4.06 Shuttle, which is blazing change of direction just like Damar Hamlin at 4.09.

-It is one of the big reasons Im not as high on Lamont Wade as others are. Being ridiculously athletic and fast is one thing in a straight line. Being able to change direction at an Elite level is a completely different thing. Some of the best DB's in the history of football had shuttle times in the high 3's. Both of their numbers, Whitehead and Hamlin, are close to Pitt great Revis. Not all speed demons are good football players. But if you have high top end 40 and Elite change of direction, your success level is stronger to be better.

 

[thebadby2]

Starting at S as a true freshman is hard. Starting at CB as s true freshman is harder.

That's not really true, especially in Narduzzi's press quarters coverage scheme. The safeties, particularly the free safety, are the QBs of the secondary and have more reads and responsibilities than the corners. it's a harder position from a Xs and Os standpoint. The safeties also have to be strong and reliable tacklers, which is one area where Whitehead really stood out as a true freshman.

That said, playing any position in a Narduzzi secondary is challenging, especially for a freshman. The corners in his D play press all the time and have to be able to jam the WR then stay with him, but they also have to be very involved in run defense, almost like extra OLBs on the edges.

 

[88Pitt88]

That's not really true, especially in Narduzzi's press quarters coverage scheme. The safeties, particularly the free safety, are the QBs of the secondary and have more reads and responsibilities than the corners. it's a harder position from a Xs and Os standpoint. The safeties also have to be strong and reliable tacklers, which is one area where Whitehead really stood out as a true freshman.

That said, playing any position in a Narduzzi secondary is challenging, especially for a freshman. The corners in his D play press all the time and have to be able to jam the WR then stay with him, but they also have to be very involved in run defense, almost like extra OLBs on the edges.

I definitely agree that it is harder to play safety than it is to play corner. Just from the perspective of where your positioned pre-snap and also when you have to read and react post-snap. Where a safety lines up pre-snap can influence a play call and possibly even force an audible if the QB is aware. There are not many times when a corner can cause an audible, save the QB reading a blitz from the corner.

Post-snap reads include way more keys for a safety to be aware of. A corner just has to run with the wideout, or move inside and cover a slot on occasion. Run responsibilities are limited to when offenses are in run packages that include one or two receivers at most.

I would say that both Damar and Jordan are incredible athletes. However, I think that based on what I have said above, Damar will not have the impact that Jordan had simply because he will not have the opportunity to affect as many plays. That said, Damar can be a huge positive with his size and speed. Avonte Maddox has been a really solid corner even though he is undersized. If Damar comes in and establishes himself early as a guy QB's will be weary of testing, he could shut down one of the quarters in Narduzzi's defense and I trust Maddox as a cover guy as well. So Damar could be quite impactful, but, don't expect him to be as influential to our defense as Jordan is.

 

[steel_curtain]

Brandon Browner http://www.mockdraftable.com/player/2043/

shuttle

-What about him?

 

[steel_curtain]

-This was from May. Still have not backtracked on it.

 

[thebadby2]

-That's my point. When is the last recruiting Class Pitt had that had the type of Speed, athletic ability, and Power of George Hill, Maurice Ffrench, Damar Hamlin, Amir Watts, Keshon Camp, TMAC, Therran Coleman, Ruben Flowers, and maybe Phil Campbell and Moss?

-If you look hard at the last 10 classes, it just isnt there.

-Boyd's 40 time was a 4.58.

Whitehead's 40 is listed as a 4.57. So how does he have "elite speed" and Boyd doesn't?

 

[President Stache]

Entering Pitt

Whitehead
5'11
175lb
4.57 40 time
4.06 Shuttle-Flat out Dominant
31 inch vertical
33 Power Throw

Hamlin
6'1
185lb
4.5 40 time
4.11 Shuttle-Flat out Dominant
30 inch vertical
39 Power Throw



-Dominant, both of them, across the board. Its no surprise multiple sources are stating Hamlin will have one of the biggest freshmen impacts in the ACC. A 4.11 Shuttle at 6'1 is ridiculous good.


Here is Lamont Wade. Solid, but not anywhere near the level of the 2 above. Lacks in size and the Shuttle time for a 5'9 DB is average at best. Wade is clearly the 4th best player between Whitehead, Hamlin, and Paris Ford.

Lamont Wade
5'9
4.57 40 time
4.56 Shuttle
30 inch vertical
33 Power Throw


-The point here, Damar Hamlin, with offers from every school in the country, a completely dominant senior season, and stats and measureables to back it up as having an immediate major impact as a freshmen.

Really enjoy your post, but agree this has nothing to do with how good of a football player you are. Revis did not have good times, he is one of the best in the world.

 

[thebadby2]

I definitely agree that it is harder to play safety than it is to play corner. Just from the perspective of where your positioned pre-snap and also when you have to read and react post-snap. Where a safety lines up pre-snap can influence a play call and possibly even force an audible if the QB is aware. There are not many times when a corner can cause an audible, save the QB reading a blitz from the corner.

Post-snap reads include way more keys for a safety to be aware of. A corner just has to run with the wideout, or move inside and cover a slot on occasion. Run responsibilities are limited to when offenses are in run packages that include one or two receivers at most.

I would say that both Damar and Jordan are incredible athletes. However, I think that based on what I have said above, Damar will not have the impact that Jordan had simply because he will not have the opportunity to affect as many plays. That said, Damar can be a huge positive with his size and speed. Avonte Maddox has been a really solid corner even though he is undersized. If Damar comes in and establishes himself early as a guy QB's will be weary of testing, he could shut down one of the quarters in Narduzzi's defense and I trust Maddox as a cover guy as well. So Damar could be quite impactful, but, don't expect him to be as influential to our defense as Jordan is.

There is more to the safety position from a mental aspect. Corners have to be the best athletes on the field. Much more athleticism required to play CB than either safety position.

You;re right though, Whitehead played essentially as a 4th LB last year, no corner is going to have the kind of tackling stats he registered.

 

[steel_curtain]

Whitehead's 40 is listed as a 4.57. So how does he have "elite speed" and Boyd doesn't?

-Serious question, do you know what a shuttle is and what its used for?

 

[thebadby2]

Entering Pitt

Whitehead
5'11
175lb
4.57 40 time
4.06 Shuttle-Flat out Dominant
31 inch vertical
33 Power Throw

Hamlin
6'1
185lb
4.5 40 time
4.11 Shuttle-Flat out Dominant
30 inch vertical
39 Power Throw



-Dominant, both of them, across the board. Its no surprise multiple sources are stating Hamlin will have one of the biggest freshmen impacts in the ACC. A 4.11 Shuttle at 6'1 is ridiculous good.


Here is Lamont Wade. Solid, but not anywhere near the level of the 2 above. Lacks in size and the Shuttle time for a 5'9 DB is average at best. Wade is clearly the 4th best player between Whitehead, Hamlin, and Paris Ford.

Lamont Wade
5'9
4.57 40 time
4.56 Shuttle
30 inch vertical
33 Power Throw


-The point here, Damar Hamlin, with offers from every school in the country, a completely dominant senior season, and stats and measureables to back it up as having an immediate major impact as a freshmen.

Hamlin is hurt, and possibly out for an extended period, which would likely result in a redshirt.

Since you are obviously star-struck more than just about anyone else on this board, why do you discount the fact that Wade is the highest rated recruit in PA, and is a higher rated and more heavily recruited prospect this year than Hamlin was last year?

 

[steel_curtain]

Really enjoy your post, but agree this has nothing to do with how good of a football player you are. Revis did not have good times, he is one of the best in the world.

Revis had a 4.38 40, 4.08 shuttle, with a 38 inch vertical. Elite measures, elite pro. Top 3 db all time

 

[steel_curtain]

Hamlin is hurt, and possibly out for an extended period, which would likely result in a redshirt.

Since you are obviously star-struck more than just about anyone else on this board, why do you discount the fact that Wade is the highest rated recruit in PA, and is a higher rated and more heavily recruited prospect this year than Hamlin was last year?

Not by everyone. ESPN would disagree.