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Congress really going after Ticketmaster

Springsteen tickets have always been some of the most reasonable in comparison to his peers, but the dynamic pricing model this time around really sucked. They purposely hold back tickets to manipulate demand and then jack up the prices during those times. It's one thing to charge different prices to adjust to supply and demand (e.g. Uber on New Year's Eve), but the withholding supply part is something I take issue with. Then again, if people just didn't go into a frenzied panic mode when buying, I guess it could correct itself.

My understanding is that the artists are not completely blameless in all this. Like, they'll negotiate a certain to show up in the building that night. And Ticketmaster will say, "Yes, we'll meet that number, but you must agree to the dynamic pricing model."

The only show I got tickets for on this first leg was one that wasn't ran through Ticketmaster. Four uppers for $600-something in Cleveland on a weekday was much more reasonable than some of the prices I was seeing for Penn State, etc.
He used to try to control the pricing and tried to keep them off Ticketmaster, but it is too hard. He still keeps the initial price relatively low but that simply means the resellers make a bigger profit.

When he did his “The River Tour” in 1980, I was able to get seats for 6 of the 8 shows. Got them all from various music industry connections, but Bruce, like The Eagles and a few others, didn’t give freebies so I had to pay face value. 12 tickets for 6 shows and I think it was less than $800 total.

For this your, I got two ticket for the show in Barcelona on April 30. Through a ticket broker — over $800 each.
 
Live Nation and Ticketmaster are essentially the same company. Irving Azoff formerly was Chairperson of both. There is zero competition between them.
 
So Acrisure doesn't have an exclusive contract through Ticketmaster for concert tickets? I wasn't able to find a concert that wasn't through ticketmaster.

Gee, I wonder what that means?
 
So Acrisure doesn't have an exclusive contract through Ticketmaster for concert tickets? I wasn't able to find a concert that wasn't through ticketmaster.

Correct. However, TM is by far the #1 primary ticket seller and are part of LN. And most artists have deals with LN so if you are a LN artist and play Acrisure, they would use TM. If Taylor Swift wasnt a LN artist, she could play Acrisure and use whatever ticketing website she wanted.
 
Correct. However, TM is by far the #1 primary ticket seller and are part of LN. And most artists have deals with LN so if you are a LN artist and play Acrisure, they would use TM. If Taylor Swift wasnt a LN artist, she could play Acrisure and use whatever ticketing website she wanted.
Do you not understand that Acrisure and the other stadiums have exclusivity deals with Live Nation/Ticketmaster? That means whoever performs at the stadium must use TM, it has nothing to do if or if not an artist is signed with Live Nation’s artist management division.
 
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Do you not understand that Acrisure and the other stadiums have exclusivity deals with Live Nation/Ticketmaster? That means whoever performs at the stadium must use TM, it has nothing to do if or if not an artist is signed with Live Nation’s artist management division.

What evidence do you have that Acrisure has an exclusivity deal with Live Nation which absolutely doesn't permit non-Live Nation artists to perform. That is absurd. You are insuating that if a non-LN artist wants to play there, they aren't allowed. No.
 
Correct. However, TM is by far the #1 primary ticket seller and are part of LN. And most artists have deals with LN so if you are a LN artist and play Acrisure, they would use TM. If Taylor Swift wasnt a LN artist, she could play Acrisure and use whatever ticketing website she wanted.
I am completely amazed how you can keep saying this. What would it take to convince you how completely wrong you are?
 
I am completely amazed how you can keep saying this. What would it take to convince you how completely wrong you are?

He’s only partially wrong. She could rent the stadium and do whatever she wanted (including using whatever ticketing platform she wanted). But she’d have to do it ALL herself.

It’s a lot easier (and cheaper) to use LN/TM.
 
He’s only partially wrong. She could rent the stadium and do whatever she wanted (including using whatever ticketing platform she wanted). But she’d have to do it ALL herself.

It’s a lot easier (and cheaper) to use LN/TM.
I thought TM had exclusivity for all concert ticket sales at Acrisure, regardless of it not being a LN venue.
 
I thought TM had exclusivity for all concert ticket sales at Acrisure, regardless of it not being a LN venue.
Typically yes. But if it’s a rental, it’s a private event and licensing deals are not subject. Like I said though she’d then have to do everything herself (hire/rent lighting, production, security, box office staff, marketing, advertising, etc etc.).

LN/TM’s mousetrap is better. Not illegal though.
 
Typically yes. But if it’s a rental, it’s a private event and licensing deals are not subject. Like I said though she’d then have to do everything herself (hire/rent lighting, production, security, box office staff, marketing, advertising, etc etc.).

LN/TM’s mousetrap is better. Not illegal though.
Are you sure? I know in the past the only way around Ticketmaster exclusivity is if it's a charitable event or similar. But that info is from about 400 years ago when Pearl Jam spoke at congressional hearings.
 
Are you sure? I know in the past the only way around Ticketmaster exclusivity is if it's a charitable event or similar. But that info is from about 400 years ago when Pearl Jam spoke at congressional hearings.

I guess there could be some state-specific guidelines, but really it has to do with the rental. We produce private events at The Van Buren in Phoenix all the time and the people renting the venue use Eventbrite and many other types of ticketing platforms to sell tix. You have to buy out the venue (four wall rental), meaning there’s little to no venue involvement/liability. Even liquor licenses can be temporarily suspended.
 
It would be almost impossible for an artist like Taylor Swift to run a show at Acrisure and hire all the people to run the show. Which is probably the point, because Ticketmaster knows that isn't happening.

Either you can realize this and are ok with Congress stepping in, or you are stuck in Libertarian la la land and don't want government involved, with the result being it is worse for damn near everyone, except for Ticketmaster investors.
 
I guess there could be some state-specific guidelines, but really it has to do with the rental. We produce private events at The Van Buren in Phoenix all the time and the people renting the venue use Eventbrite and many other types of ticketing platforms to sell tix. You have to buy out the venue (four wall rental), meaning there’s little to no venue involvement/liability. Even liquor licenses can be temporarily suspended.
It also depends on the size of the venue, nearly all NFL stadiums have exclusive event partnerships with Ticketmaster. Like the Taylor Swift issue, her tour isn't actually a Live Nation tour, it is their largest competitor AEG. But AEG had to partner with Ticketmaster because that's the only way they could hold concerts at the vast majority of venues over 10,000. Ticketmaster/Livenation isn't doing a thing on the production end.
 
What evidence do you have that Acrisure has an exclusivity deal with Live Nation which absolutely doesn't permit non-Live Nation artists to perform. That is absurd. You are insuating that if a non-LN artist wants to play there, they aren't allowed. No.
You keep conflating TM with Live Nation. Live Nation goes to large venues and tells them if they want Live Nation events then they have to use TM for ALL of their event tickets ragardless of whether or not the act is being presented by Live Nation. This is what they have done for decades. This is what they agreed not to do in the consent decree. This is what they have been found on numerous occasions to be doing regardless of the decree and got them fined (minimally).

That's the entire point of the hearings, that's the entire point of the Taylor Swift fiasco. Taylor Swift's tour is AEG not Live Nation, but AEG was forced to use Ticketmaster if they wanted to use any of the vast majority of Taylor Swift-sized venues.

AEG executive said:
“Ticketmaster’s exclusive deals with the vast majority of venues on the Eras tour required us to ticket through their system,” AEG said in a statement to CNBC. “We didn’t have a choice.”
 
This thread is about 3 pages too long...that said I will add that I find it ironic that my ticketmaster account always shows my live Nation events and vice versa.
 
You keep conflating TM with Live Nation. Live Nation goes to large venues and tells them if they want Live Nation events then they have to use TM for ALL of their event tickets ragardless of whether or not the act is being presented by Live Nation. This is what they have done for decades. This is what they agreed not to do in the consent decree. This is what they have been found on numerous occasions to be doing regardless of the decree and got them fined (minimally).

That's the entire point of the hearings, that's the entire point of the Taylor Swift fiasco. Taylor Swift's tour is AEG not Live Nation, but AEG was forced to use Ticketmaster if they wanted to use any of the vast majority of Taylor Swift-sized venues.
This is the correct answer. Merger never should have been approved. The combined company are bad actors. It would be in consumer’s best interest to separate livenation and Ticketmaster
 
He’s only partially wrong. She could rent the stadium and do whatever she wanted (including using whatever ticketing platform she wanted). But she’d have to do it ALL herself.

It’s a lot easier (and cheaper) to use LN/TM.

She wouldn't have to do it herself. I mean she can rent Acrisure or any venue and then hire a company similar to LN to do set up and run the event and use whatever ticketing platform she wants.
 
You keep conflating TM with Live Nation. Live Nation goes to large venues and tells them if they want Live Nation events then they have to use TM for ALL of their event tickets ragardless of whether or not the act is being presented by Live Nation. This is what they have done for decades. This is what they agreed not to do in the consent decree. This is what they have been found on numerous occasions to be doing regardless of the decree and got them fined (minimally).

That's the entire point of the hearings, that's the entire point of the Taylor Swift fiasco. Taylor Swift's tour is AEG not Live Nation, but AEG was forced to use Ticketmaster if they wanted to use any of the vast majority of Taylor Swift-sized venues.

If Taylor Swift is AEG and not LN, then how could she play Acrisure? I was told 15 times on here that's impossible
 
If Taylor Swift is AEG and not LN, then how could she play Acrisure? I was told 15 times on here that's impossible
No one said Swift couldn’t play at Acrisure, we’ve been saying that Swift has to use Ticketmaster since they have an exclusive agreement to sell tickets at the stadium for concerts. AEG has their own ticket service called AXS, Acrisure can’t use AXS for Swift’s concerts since they have a legally binding deal with Ticketmaster to sell tickets at the stadium. Live Nation isn’t going to freeze out an artist like Swift who’ll make them millions upon millions of dollars from fees Ticketmaster charges, acts that play the 500 to 5,000 seat venues Live Nation owns or operates could be frozen out.
 
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No one said Swift couldn’t play at Acrisure, we’ve been saying that Swift has to use Ticketmaster since they have an exclusive agreement to sell tickets at the stadium for concerts. AEG has their own ticket service called AXS, Acrisure can’t use AXS for Swift’s concerts since they have a legally binding deal with Ticketmaster to sell tickets at the stadium. Live Nation isn’t going to freeze out an artist like Swift who’ll make them millions upon millions of dollars from fees Ticketmaster charges, acts that play the 500 to 5,000 seat venues Live Nation owns or operates could be frozen out.

You are making no sense. According to you, Acrisure has NO deal with Live Nation but an exclusive deal with TM for concerts only since Pitt doesnt use TM. And even if that's true, why did Acrisure sign on with TM? How is it anti-trust? They don't have a deal with LN but made a deal with their subsidiary instead of going with another primary ticketing source, selling them on their own website, or having no ticketing deal whatsoever.

The blame seems to now shift to Acrisure Stadium. If LN allowed Swift to play at the non-LN venue, maybe Congress should be calling the Acrisure folks in for signing a business deal with big, bad Ticketmaster. Because you know, we should be restricting all these business deals. Acrisure had many other options besides TM.
 
You are making no sense. According to you, Acrisure has NO deal with Live Nation but an exclusive deal with TM for concerts only since Pitt doesnt use TM. And even if that's true, why did Acrisure sign on with TM? How is it anti-trust? They don't have a deal with LN but made a deal with their subsidiary instead of going with another primary ticketing source, selling them on their own website, or having no ticketing deal whatsoever.

The blame seems to now shift to Acrisure Stadium. If LN allowed Swift to play at the non-LN venue, maybe Congress should be calling the Acrisure folks in for signing a business deal with big, bad Ticketmaster. Because you know, we should be restricting all these business deals. Acrisure had many other options besides TM.
You're talking in circles and ignoring what has been said in previous posts. Ticketmaster is owned by Live Nation, Pitt doesn't sell tickets via Ticketmaster since the company Pitt uses was owned by Ticketmaster but had to be sold off before the Live Nation-Ticketmaster merger, as part of the consent decree of the merger Live Nation/Ticketmaster couldn't freeze that company out for 10 years.
 
You are making no sense. According to you, Acrisure has NO deal with Live Nation but an exclusive deal with TM for concerts only since Pitt doesnt use TM. And even if that's true, why did Acrisure sign on with TM? How is it anti-trust? They don't have a deal with LN but made a deal with their subsidiary instead of going with another primary ticketing source, selling them on their own website, or having no ticketing deal whatsoever.

The blame seems to now shift to Acrisure Stadium. If LN allowed Swift to play at the non-LN venue, maybe Congress should be calling the Acrisure folks in for signing a business deal with big, bad Ticketmaster. Because you know, we should be restricting all these business deals. Acrisure had many other options besides TM.

Good God. Why is this so hard for you?

Acrisure must use TM for concerts.
 
You are making no sense. According to you, Acrisure has NO deal with Live Nation but an exclusive deal with TM for concerts only since Pitt doesnt use TM. And even if that's true, why did Acrisure sign on with TM? How is it anti-trust? They don't have a deal with LN but made a deal with their subsidiary instead of going with another primary ticketing source, selling them on their own website, or having no ticketing deal whatsoever.

The blame seems to now shift to Acrisure Stadium. If LN allowed Swift to play at the non-LN venue, maybe Congress should be calling the Acrisure folks in for signing a business deal with big, bad Ticketmaster. Because you know, we should be restricting all these business deals. Acrisure had many other options besides TM.
How can you now have the basic facts correct, but still don't understand the antitrust case?

There are multiple troubling parts about this that wouldn't be antitrust if TM/LN wasn't responsible for 70-80% of the market.

1. LN/TM has created an environment where it is commonly known in the industry that if you don't sign an exclusivity deal to use TM for all your events, then you don't get access to LN promoted events.
-This was a very specific part of the consent agreement they have been proven to be breaking on multiple occasions that was signed when they merged because of the overwhelming positions both companies controlled in the US.

2. LN/TM has tons of opaque consumer fees and kickbacks with the venues in their exclusivity deals. These types of things can be used to create artificial price floors and secret barriers to entry for competition. These types of things were some of the major points in US vs Paramount that broke up the vertical integration of the film industry. That's why every press release you see from LN/TN now talks about being more clear about their fees and where the money is spent.

3. The use of TM exclusive contracts forces LN's direct competitors to do business with the company. This type of thing was a big deal in the Standard Oil breakup where their exclusive contracts forced railroad companies to provide kickbacks for every barrel of oil transported, regardless of the manufacturer, which increased costs to competitors or made their contracts less valuable to the railway.

4. Their exclusive deals dominate large venues. I believe 27 out of 31 NFL stadiums have TM exclusive deals and it is said that the vast majority of US venues over 10,000 have TM exclusive deals (can't find exact numbers). Again, similar to the US v Paramount, where they only controlled like 15% of all venues (premiering theaters) but nearly 80% in cities over 100k.

SCOTUS said:
Moreover, the problem under the Sherman Act is not solved merely by measuring monopoly in terms of size or extent of holdings or by concluding that single ownerships were not obtained 'for the purpose of achieving a national monopoly.' It is the relationship of the unreasonable restraints of trade to the position of the defendants...that is of first importance on the divestiture phase of these cases.

Not everything will line up perfectly with previous cases, because that would be ridiculous to straight copy practices that have already led to breakups, but their aims and results are unchanged. TM's practices on their own have drawn and will continue to draw scrutiny, but it becomes an even greater target through vertical integration within an industry.
 
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