Cornerback depth

[Sean Miller Fan]

2 interesting things in the post-game pressers:

1. Narduzzi questioned his CB depth, saying something like has guys that can match up with OKST's speedsters but said "do we have depth."

2. When asked about OKST going deep all the time, Maddox said it was hard when they'd go deep and then you come back to the line, they have another WR across from you and they go deep again.

I realize people always want the backup but a general rule of thumb in sports is that coaches know who their best players are and starters are better than backups. For as bad as you may think Maddox and Lewis are, just know their backups are worse.

What's concerning to me is that none of the true freshmen have risen up to challenge for PT.

It makes you wonder how much Titus Howard could have helped.

 

[JohnnyGossamer]

Doesn't worry me at all... Regarding the youngsters. Take a bit of time to cook. Likely don't grasp the D yet either. Whitehead was inserted early as run stopper last season. CB is different. Hamlin needs to heal up. Garner, Miller, Campbell and Coleman have to learn the nuances. It's only 3 games into the season. Give it time...

 

[PhPanther1]

Titus Howard is an NFL corner. Losing him hurts a lot.
Motley never should have received an offer, but that's all PC could get.
Jackson and the others are just overmatched.
Coleman and Miller must be lost as soon as the ball is snapped. No way they can't do better than what we saw Saturday.

 

[pittdan77]

This system asks a lot of cornerbacks. You probably ought to take Narduzzi's comments and read between the lines a little bit. I think he's letting his younger guys know that it's time to step up because there are jobs ready to open up. Also think he's dangling a carrot at Wade.

Either way, Pitt finally made an adjustment very late in the first half by moving the safeties back and playing off of the WR's a little bit. Made a huge difference.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Doesn't worry me at all... Regarding the youngsters. Take a bit of time to cook. Likely don't grasp the D yet either. Whitehead inserted early as run stopper last season. CB is different. Hamlin needs to heals up. Garner, Miller, Pope and Coleman have to learn the nuances. It's only 3 games into the season. Give it time...

Brain freeze. Who is Pope?

Losing George Hill also hurts a lot. You never know what a true freshman can do but its possible the best 2 corners who SHOULD be on the team dont play for us (Hill, Howard) and another is a run-stopping Safety.

 

[VAPITTALUM]

This system asks a lot of cornerbacks. You probably ought to take Narduzzi's comments and read between the lines a little bit. I think he's letting his younger guys know that it's time to step up because there are jobs ready to open up. Also think he's dangling a carrot at Wade.

Either way, Pitt finally made an adjustment very late in the first half by moving the safeties back and playing off of the WR's a little bit. Made a huge difference.

I was hoping for this adjustment after the 1st quarter. You know that teams similar to OK State are going to put up yards on your defense; the trick to forcing them to make 8-9 consecutive plays in order to score points. At the end of the first half, the coaches made the adjustment, which worked really well and confused the OK State QB. Unfortunately, the game-winning TD for OK State was due to a slip by Maddox, which allowed the WR a free release and sprint to the end zone.

Going into the UNC game, I hope the staff takes the same approach with Switzer. He, more than anyone else on that team, has crushed PITT in recent years. Do not let him get behind the S for easy shots downfield. Force UNC to make 8-9 consecutive plays on the ground (Hood is likely the best RB PITT will face) or through the air in order to score points.

 

[vegasgreed]

freshman are allowed to play in college football. watching other teams, lots of freshman are playing.

Years ago when there was no scholarship limit, teams could bring in oodles of talent and RS many of them. Fast forward to 2016, a lot has changed. Freshman are more ready to play than ever and good coaches are playing that talent early. Hell, not only is the best college football coach playing a freshman, he's playing one at the most important position on the field. And, oh by the way, Saban has switched to a dual threat QB. Nick is adjusting with the game.

 

[President Stache]

Its very very tough for a true freshman to play corner. If you dont know the defense you get guys wide open very quickly... then again... OSU had guys wide open as well all day.

 

[JohnnyGossamer]

Brain freeze. Who is Pope?

Losing George Hill also hurts a lot. You never know what a true freshman can do but its possible the best 2 corners who SHOULD be on the team dont play for us (Hill, Howard) and another is a run-stopping Safety.

My mistake, SMH. I meant Phil Campbell.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Its very very tough for a true freshman to play corner. If you dont know the defense you get guys wide open very quickly... then again... OSU had guys wide open as well all day.

Agree that it is but if you cant even come close to challenging Maddox and Lewis to get ONE rep, that's not good. Both Narduzzi and Maddox basically said they need other players to get reps.

 

[CaptainSidneyReilly]

It is what it is, and why Pitt needs better Recruits to develop DBs & LBs. Narduzzi is not running away from it, and puts his own judgement and coaching on the line for not getting it done! This is what a Great Honest Coach does, he knows the problems more than any of us, won't hide from them, and not afraid to discuss them???

Even more important, Narduzzi accepts and knows it is his responsibility to get it done, change techniques, work on better communications, and do it together.

Pitt Fans should be thankful for such Honesty of his own Coaching by Coach Pat! You don't hear excuses like it was due to previous AD & Coaches or going to the ACC or lacking Recruiting Staffers!

Coach Pat admits he has to work on it, will work on it, and do it with his Players while praising his Players and Critique himself and them too at the same time?

I admire this kind of direct coaching and knowing oneself when failure to win even in the last minutes with minute seconds of misjudgements is hard to correct and only experience and working on it together will make it better.

It is not just talent it is adapting to good coaching and those coaches to making their Players better together!

This is just Coach Pat & Staff Second Year, and 16th Game???? The Coaches want 8 DBs that can rotate every game, and turn bigger D's-Athletes into becoming 220-230 LBs Fast Linebackers, and keep transforming an integral part of his DTs, DEs, into DLs?

It won't happen overnight, and they need more talent, and time to grow that talent? They do it by not making any excuses just make themselves better! They will do it too, because Narduzzi knows something needs to be fixed and he will keep twining and twinging it until they get done. The Offense too!

 

[CaptainSidneyReilly]

Doesn't worry me at all... Regarding the youngsters. Take a bit of time to cook. Likely don't grasp the D yet either. Whitehead inserted early as run stopper last season. CB is different. Hamlin needs to heals up. Garner, Miller, Pope and Coleman have to learn the nuances. It's only 3 games into the season. Give it time...

Spot on, and Pitt no longer haa a Head Coach making excuses, but one explaining what he has to come to learn and share and solve.

Unlike what Pitt had in the past like "Um, Duh, Me Knows About Special Teams No One Else", as Chryst loses 3 Games a year on Special Teams as he was an Intern Tutor coach for NU's alumni Alvarez-Pederson? Funny Alvarez made him have ST Coach!

or

GraHAm Scram...."I Can't Win Here I Am Out Of Here By 8 AM", as the only High Octane he used was on an Air jet out of Pitt, and blamed Sunseri, but not himself??

or

The Christmas week Gift of a Coach in Haywood, "I Am Going To Seek A Settlement For Coaching 9 Days At Pitt", and got it as another Pederson Consultant's cost to Pitt???

or,

Wannstedt's eyesight at the 0-3 Bowl game...."Maybe I Should Have Changed QBs Sooner We Just Needed 3 Points"????

or

Walt's Famous Missing In Action & Agent's Forlorn Contracts Talks... "I Did Not Go To The Big 33 Game To Meet High School Coaches Until My Forlorn Contract Is Renewed"?????

All i know these Players Don't Quit and neither do the Coaches on them!

Takes time to change attitudes and stay in the same latitudes for more than 5 years!

I do not mind if some Posters are upset with Coach Pat & Staff, that is their fair opinion, and demands he wins now, I can wait and enjoy the bait, plus straight talk.

The Players love this Coach and this Coach respects his Players, and I enjoy both watching the ups and downs with the climbs again towards success like I witness in 1972-1982!

 

[King Of All Message Boards]

Agree that it is but if you cant even come close to challenging Maddox and Lewis to get ONE rep, that's not good. Both Narduzzi and Maddox basically said they need other players to get reps.

I posted this elsewhere but unless there's someone who is clearly better I think we're better off taking our lumps with the older guys than blowing a RS for someone.

 

[gary2]

I was hoping for this adjustment after the 1st quarter. You know that teams similar to OK State are going to put up yards on your defense; the trick to forcing them to make 8-9 consecutive plays in order to score points. At the end of the first half, the coaches made the adjustment, which worked really well and confused the OK State QB. Unfortunately, the game-winning TD for OK State was due to a slip by Maddox, which allowed the WR a free release and sprint to the end zone.

Going into the UNC game, I hope the staff takes the same approach with Switzer. He, more than anyone else on that team, has crushed PITT in recent years. Do not let him get behind the S for easy shots downfield. Force UNC to make 8-9 consecutive plays on the ground (Hood is likely the best RB PITT will face) or through the air in order to score points.

You can be sure that they will throw that looong behind the line of scrimmage pass and have 2 receivers in front of it (holding like crazy) that will go for a long gain or td.

There will be a trick play or two as well. I hope we are ready.

 

[VAPITTALUM]

You can be sure that they will throw that looong behind the line of scrimmage pass and have 2 receivers in front of it (holding like crazy) that will go for a long gain or td.

There will be a trick play or two as well. I hope we are ready.

Oh yeah, it's coming. UNC beat PITT with 2 long passes for TDs last year, otherwise, the PITT defense did a pretty solid job of limiting the production of their offense. Special teams were extremely solid as well. They must force UNC to earn their points on every drive.

Too many deep shots were allowed to PSU and OSU in which the receiver simply ran past the CB, and sometimes the S who was supposed to be helping. Hopefully the adjustments the defensive staff employed toward the end of the first half and second half are carried over into this game. No need to spot the home team 7 points rights out of the gate.

 

[JohnnyGossamer]

If Pitt hold UNC to 26 again this season, Pitt'll win.

 

[#99HUGHgreen]

Oh yeah, it's coming. UNC beat PITT with 2 long passes for TDs last year, otherwise, the PITT defense did a pretty solid job of limiting the production of their offense. Special teams were extremely solid as well. They must force UNC to earn their points on every drive.

Too many deep shots were allowed to PSU and OSU in which the receiver simply ran past the CB, and sometimes the S who was supposed to be helping. Hopefully the adjustments the defensive staff employed toward the end of the first half and second half are carried over into this game. No need to spot the home team 7 points rights out of the gate.

Goodness. I couldn't agree more.

 

[cruzer]

2 interesting things in the post-game pressers:

1. Narduzzi questioned his CB depth, saying something like has guys that can match up with OKST's speedsters but said "do we have depth."

2. When asked about OKST going deep all the time, Maddox said it was hard when they'd go deep and then you come back to the line, they have another WR across from you and they go deep again.

I realize people always want the backup but a general rule of thumb in sports is that coaches know who their best players are and starters are better than backups. For as bad as you may think Maddox and Lewis are, just know their backups are worse.

What's concerning to me is that none of the true freshmen have risen up to challenge for PT.

It makes you wonder how much Titus Howard could have helped.

I generally agree with your sentiments, but I'll add this. Maddox is a junior. Lewis is a senior. They are what they are going to be and frankly, it's not pretty. Maddox has a history of getting torched deep. That's not likely to change. I'd like to see some of the younger guys to get them experience. I'm not sure how it's possible to be much worse then what we've seen. I suppose the young guys would let receivers get 15 yards behind them as opposed to the 10 yard beat down that Maddox was showing. One final thought on Narduzzi. I hear all this coach speak about adjustments and technique and little changes. Then I watch the game and our guys are letting receivers get 5, 10 yards behind them. I find it hard to believe that this is simply a technique problem, particularly when the guys playing are upper classmen. If they haven't learned proper technique by now they never will.

Cruzer

 

[VAPITTALUM]

I generally agree with your sentiments, but I'll add this. Maddox is a junior. Lewis is a senior. They are what they are going to be and frankly, it's not pretty. Maddox has a history of getting torched deep. That's not likely to change. I'd like to see some of the younger guys to get them experience. I'm not sure how it's possible to be much worse then what we've seen. I suppose the young guys would let receivers get 15 yards behind them as opposed to the 10 yard beat down that Maddox was showing. One final thought on Narduzzi. I hear all this coach speak about adjustments and technique and little changes. Then I watch the game and our guys are letting receivers get 5, 10 yards behind them. I find it hard to believe that this is simply a technique problem, particularly when the guys playing are upper classmen. If they haven't learned proper technique by now they never will.

Cruzer

The reason Maddox is the focus of most of the discussions regarding the secondary play this year is that he is the one who takes the responsibility of covering the other team's best receiver. That's a burden he is willing to shoulder as an upperclassman. Now, pulling Maddox and sticking one of the younger players may work, but the staff is now trusting a, inexperienced (at the college level) player to cover the other team's best WR. Is that really a position that the other players mentioned in this thread are ready for?

In the past two games, Maddox was forced to cover DeaSean Hamilton and James Washington from PSU and OSU, respectively.

• Hamilton ended up with 8 receptions for 82 yards and 0 TDs. While he had a great game receiving, he was only instrumental in one of the TDs scored. I would say Maddox did a pretty solid job of keeping Hamilton in check.
• Washington had 9 receptions for 296 yards and 2 TDs. Washington completely dominated this match-up, either scoring or putting his team in position to score.

Currently for the season, I think Maddox has had a mixed bag when it comes to production on the defensive side of the ball. Washington is going to get his yards against almost anyone, as evidenced by eclipsing 1,000 yards receiving last year.

However, Maddox and the defensive staff really need to work on putting him in a better position to succeed against the more dominant receivers PITT will face this year. If the receivers are faster than the CBs, play off of the line of scrimmage and keep everything in front rather than trying to press off the line.

 

[gary2]

Outside of RB, Pitt has no "ready to play" depth at any position.

We start former walk-ons at FB and OLB.

It will take at least another to recruiting classes before any semblance of depth is realized

 

[JohnnyGossamer]

Outside of RB, Pitt has no "ready to play" depth at any position.

We start former walk-ons at FB and OLB.

It will take at least another to recruiting classes before any semblance of depth is realized

While I agree mostly... Aston's a beast. One of the most reliable players on offense and the best Pitt FB since Hyno. So versatile for a grunt. Love what that dude brings.

 

[gary2]

While I agree mostly... Aston's a beast. One of the most reliable players on offense and the best Pitt FB since Hyno. So versatile for a grunt. Love what that dude brings.

I agree on Aston (although Parrish did a very nice job as a blocker at the spot - Parrish is not as versatile)

 

[#99HUGHgreen]

It sounds so lame when coaches make the trite statement, "He's a football player," about this individual or that individual on their team.

And yet, if it were said about Aston or Price or Conner I'd be like, "Yes, that's so true."

With those guys, (and possibly a few more from the team), you get 100% of their ability 100% of the time.

 

[VAPITTALUM]

I agree on Aston (although Parrish did a very nice job as a blocker at the spot - Parrish is not as versatile)

Parrish has been non-existent this season. Was he injured during one of the games?

 

[gary2]

Parrish has been non-existent this season. Was he injured during one of the games?

It appears to me that Parrish is playing a fair amount.

We seldom line up with a lead blocker. (Aston or Parrish)

I think I have seen both on the field at the same time when we are going to power running. It seems they line up on the wings, just behind and outside the tight end.

 

[vegasgreed]

what the hell do you expect parrish to be doing?

 

[JohnnyGossamer]

He's out there blocking pretty often... Parrish that is.

 

[VAPITTALUM]

It appears to me that Parrish is playing a fair amount.

We seldom line up with a lead blocker. (Aston or Parrish)

I think I have seen both on the field at the same time when we are going to power running. It seems they line up on the wings, just behind and outside the tight end.

Gottcha. I was hoping to see a little more of him on the quick passes over the middle when the defense decides to play a little too aggressively. On the few passes he caught in 2014, he appeared to have at least the ability as a relief valve for the QB when the other receivers are covered.

 

[fitzburgh]

The reason Maddox is the focus of most of the discussions regarding the secondary play this year is that he is the one who takes the responsibility of covering the other team's best receiver. That's a burden he is willing to shoulder as an upperclassman. Now, pulling Maddox and sticking one of the younger players may work, but the staff is now trusting a, inexperienced (at the college level) player to cover the other team's best WR. Is that really a position that the other players mentioned in this thread are ready for?

In the past two games, Maddox was forced to cover DeaSean Hamilton and James Washington from PSU and OSU, respectively.

• Hamilton ended up with 8 receptions for 82 yards and 0 TDs. While he had a great game receiving, he was only instrumental in one of the TDs scored. I would say Maddox did a pretty solid job of keeping Hamilton in check.
• Washington had 9 receptions for 296 yards and 2 TDs. Washington completely dominated this match-up, either scoring or putting his team in position to score.

Currently for the season, I think Maddox has had a mixed bag when it comes to production on the defensive side of the ball. Washington is going to get his yards against almost anyone, as evidenced by eclipsing 1,000 yards receiving last year.

However, Maddox and the defensive staff really need to work on putting him in a better position to succeed against the more dominant receivers PITT will face this year. If the receivers are faster than the CBs, play off of the line of scrimmage and keep everything in front rather than trying to press off the line.

Most of Hamilton's catches were out of the slot, where Terrish Webb was covering him from 10 yards deep. Maddox was on Godwin a lot, but your premise of him covering the best WR on the other side is correct. Most of the time (except for the slip) he's there, just not quite big enough. I still think he's decent, and the talent to replace him is even better.

 

[gary2]

Gottcha. I was hoping to see a little more of him on the quick passes over the middle when the defense decides to play a little too aggressively. On the few passes he caught in 2014, he appeared to have at least the ability as a relief valve for the QB when the other receivers are covered.

I think Aston is a better receiver.

If Ibrahim is healthy, he needs to start seeing the field.

I would also like to see Henderson on bubble screens.

Maybe a non motion counter from Henderson off the look of our bread and butter run for Conner.

We need to diversify a bit.

 

[VAPITTALUM]

what the hell do you expect parrish to be doing?

I expect a check down pass once in awhile on 3rd and 4 where the WR have cleared out some space. This holds true for Orndoff as well.

 

[JohnnyGossamer]

I expect a check down pass once in awhile on 3rd and 4 where the WR have cleared out some space. This holds true for Orndoff as well.

Much rather see a check down to Conner, Hall or Ollison. But, I don't disagree.

 

[VAPITTALUM]

Most of Hamilton's catches were out of the slot, where Terrish Webb was covering him from 10 yards deep. Maddox was on Godwin a lot, but your premise of him covering the best WR on the other side is correct. Most of the time (except for the slip) he's there, just not quite big enough. I still think he's decent, and the talent to replace him is even better.

Good point. I assumed Maddox was playing the best of the WRs based on the previous year's production numbers.

Maddox is certainly a decent cover CB, but he's not the lockdown CB that's needed at his position. To be fair, there are only so many Revis' in the world (my goodness he would have been incredible in this defense) who can compete and shut down the top WR from the opposing team. If he loses even once in the game, that play can easily go for 90 yards and a TD. It doesn't matter if the receiver only catches 1 of 10 passes thrown his way, that one catch will stick in the mind of the fans.

 

[gary2]

Much rather see a check down to Conner, Hall or Ollison. But, I don't disagree.

If Ollison keeps getting treated like he has this season and part of last season, I would not blame him if he transfers.

 

[VAPITTALUM]

Much rather see a check down to Conner, Hall or Ollison. But, I don't disagree.

I'm with you 100%! It's obvious the WR corps just is not getting the job done, even when Peterman has plenty of time. It's time to start checking down to players 5-10 yards down the field to do some damage. All of the players you mentioned are great options.

 

[raleighpanther]

Other than the two blown coverages that went for long TDs, one a missed assignment, the other a slip by the CB, I actually thought our CBs did a decent job of staying with their receivers. The problem was that staying with them wasn't good enough since their QB/WR tandem were really good at beating tight one-on-one coverage. The QB would lob it high and on the sideline shoulder where the corners couldn't get to it, and their receivers consistently made plays. It was the coverage scheme that was the problem. Once they switched the coverage to get safety help, the deep ball completions went away. The change should've happened in the second quarter, not the third.

Not to say that our starting CBs are great - they're not - but they were just being asked to do much against a great passing offense.