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Dejan K claims the pitt duquense beef stems from pitt donors

No, someone said Nova plays the Philly area schools, so we should play Duquesne. I asked why don't they play Drexel. They aren't a Big 5 School, but still a Philly school they could easily play.
Regardless, Nova plays FOUR city games. They’re not too big for it. It fits THEIR scheduling model: they’ll even go on the road. So you can believe whatever bullshit the school or Dejan is spewing but there’s another reason for this.
 
Regardless, Nova plays FOUR city games. They’re not too big for it. It fits THEIR scheduling model: they’ll even go on the road. So you can believe whatever bullshit the school or Dejan is spewing but there’s another reason for this.
I am in the know bball, I'll eventually find out. IMHO something really pissed Pitt off for them not to play.
 
Regardless, Nova plays FOUR city games. They’re not too big for it. It fits THEIR scheduling model: they’ll even go on the road. So you can believe whatever bullshit the school or Dejan is spewing but there’s another reason for this.
I'll agree with this, DK doesn't know
 
No, someone said Nova plays the Philly area schools, so we should play Duquesne. I asked why don't they play Drexel. They aren't a Big 5 School, but still a Philly school they could easily play.

Actually, Villanova could not easily play Drexel given their Big East and Big 5 commitments and preseason tournament obligations. And they have no tradition of playing Drexel and haven't done so in over a decade. In this thread, no one is arguing that Pitt should play RMU every year.
 
Actually, Villanova could not easily play Drexel given their Big East and Big 5 commitments and preseason tournament obligations. And they have no tradition of playing Drexel and haven't done so in over a decade. In this thread, no one is arguing that Pitt should play RMU every year.
Exactly right. Playing the 4 Big5 schools every year complicates Villanova's schedule. By the time you play those 4 games, plus I believe the BE has two conference challenges, and of course they'd like to play in a holiday tourney, that's 9 games, not leaving much flexibility if they want to schedule a big time opponent like Carolina, or Kansas. As has been pointed out, playing Duquesne at PPG is basically like getting a home game that's credited as a neutral site game. Even at the Pete, there will be a couple thousand Duquesne fans, so you really lose very little by playing them at PPG. If Duquesne was smart, they'd play RMU at PPG too. Schedule it when Pitt is off, and I'd bet they'd get a bit of a boost in attendance from casual Pitt fans, who are secondary fans of the Dukes, or Colonials. Might be a fun game to go to, but I'm not going out to Moon to watch it.
 
I'm for playing Duquesne have listed my reasons in the other thread but here's one more. Our non conf schedule sucks. No excitement whatsoever. In fact, I've gone from buying a full season to selecting certain games. And our record doesn't have anything to do with it (kind of).

Our most exciting non conf home game was Rutgers and at that time no cared about Rutgers and I would guess 3000 people max were there. So I pick the decent games and if I have to pay a premium for one or two then I'm still ahead a couple of hundred dollars.

Until we turn the corner to be in the top 5 or 6 of the ACC we are getting the same type of opponent in the Big Ten challenge. And we're getting H&Hs with the bottom half of the ACC. Really. Last year these were the games I was excited about - FSU, WVU Louisville, VA, Syracuse (personal reasons) and UNC.

So again I will Stub Hub my games unless I am impressed. By in case someone from the Ath Dept. reads this, and hasn't read my e-mails when they ask why I haven't re upped season tickets, here is my recommendation.

Play PSU and WV in a home and home series getting at least one at home. Play Duq every year at PPG but split the cost and the arena. Half goes to each team including each getting a premium club like the Capt Morgan. Make that part of the season ticket plan. Then do another H&H with a non traditional opponent like a SEC school or Big East and play at the school the year we host for the Big 10 challenge

Now our schedule will have 20 ACC games 3 for an in season tournament. Games vs PSU, Duq, WVU, Big 10 TBD team and one from another power conference. Still leaves 3 home cup cakes.

So for seasons I will get 10 ACC games, PSU or WVU, Duq. and Big Ten or P6 school. and 3 cup cakes. That may be enough to plunk down my cash and I am sure there's a lot more of people like me
 
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I'm for playing Duquesne have listed my reasons in the other thread but here's one more. Our non conf schedule sucks. No excitement whatsoever. In fact, I've gone from buying a full season to selecting certain games. And our record doesn't have anything to do with it (kind of).

Our most exciting non conf home game was Rutgers and at that time no cared about Rutgers and I would guess 3000 people max were there. So I pick the decent games and if I have to pay a premium for one or two then I'm still ahead a couple of hundred dollars.

Until we turn the corner to be in the top 5 or 6 of the ACC we are getting the same type of opponent in the Big Ten challenge. And we're getting H&Hs with the bottom half of the ACC. Really. Last year these were the games I was excited about - FSU, WVU Louisville, VA, Syracuse (personal reasons) and UNC.

So again I will Stub Hub my games unless I am impressed. By in case someone from the Ath Dept. reads this, and hasn't read my e-mails when they ask why I haven't re upped season tickets, here is my recommendation.

Play PSU and WV in a home and home series getting at least one at home. Play Duq every year at PPG but split the cost and the arena. Half goes to each team including each getting a premium club like the Capt Morgan. Make that part of the season ticket plan. Then do another H&H with a non traditional opponent like a SEC school or Big East and play at the school the year we host for the Big 10 challenge

Now our schedule will have 20 ACC games 3 for an in season tournament. Games vs PSU, Duq, WVU, Big 10 TBD team and one from another power conference. Still leaves 3 home cup cakes.

So for seasons I will get 10 ACC games, PSU or WVU, Duq. and Big Ten or P6 school. and 3 cup cakes. That may be enough to plunk down my cash and I am sure there's a lot more of people like me
This is all well and good, but it’s important to recognize that doing that would almost certainly give Pitt the hardest schedule in college basketball by a pretty solid margin. That schedule would have been a gauntlet for the 08-09 team. It’d be a hell of a schedule for fans, but it would put the actual team at a disadvantage to almost every other team in the country who wouldn’t build half as challenging of a schedule.
 
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This is all well and good, but it’s important to recognize that doing that would almost certainly give Pitt the hardest schedule in college basketball by a pretty solid margin. That schedule would have been a gauntlet for the 08-09 team. It’d be a hell of a schedule for fans, but it would put the actual team at a disadvantage to almost every other team in the country who wouldn’t build half as challenging of a schedule.
Exactly! Pitt fans want to win like the big boys, but won’t go the extra mile themselves.
 
This is all well and good, but it’s important to recognize that doing that would almost certainly give Pitt the hardest schedule in college basketball by a pretty solid margin. That schedule would have been a gauntlet for the 08-09 team. It’d be a hell of a schedule for fans, but it would put the actual team at a disadvantage to almost every other team in the country who wouldn’t build half as challenging of a schedule.
And as we all remember, we all loved Jamie’s OOC scheduling philosophy
 
If you want an actually solid, but achievable, OOC schedule, look at Penn State’s from last year. Same 20 game conference schedule. They had the Gavitt Games on the road at Georgetown, the ACC challenge against Wake Forest, the second year of a home/home versus Alabama, and a two-game tournament against Syracuse and Ole Miss (with OK State being the other team in the tournament). They buttressed it with two games against Ivies (a good Yale and a terrible, but usually decent, Cornell), a regional opponent in Bucknell (like RMU), and three total stinker buy games.

If you’re looking at a similar Pitt schedule, you could see:
Two Tourney games (shooting for at least one as a Q1 neutral, name brand opponent doesn’t matter)
B1G/ACC (Q1 if on road, Q1/Q2 if home)
High major home/home with local interest like WVU (again, Q1 on road, Q2 at home)
Duquesne (home or neutral - Q2 if they’re good, Q3 if they’re bad)
Big East Reprise (make it a neutral site at MSG or Barclays around the holidays after the students go home and the Zoo’s empty)
Five home mid/low majors - mix of regionals like Youngstown and St. Francis, a CUSA or MAC team like Akron, Kent, Marshall or an Ivy, and then fill the rest with Monmouth, Howard, American, etc.

Keeps it close, regional, interesting, good for NET, and winnable.
 
Pitt will play at least 6 or 7 inferior basketball teams this year and every year. This excuse is a non starter. That being said all this whining from the media is overboard. Back in the 60s when Duquesne was considered the superior program they went 13 years refusing to schedule Pitt. They only met by chance if they were paired in the Steel Bowl. So this 2 year hiatus is no big deal.
I know will Pitt will play 6 or 7 inferior basketballs teams this year. And Pitt will choose which of those to play...they don't choose Pitt, it's the other way around. And no one will cry if we choose to play Monmouth and not Stony Brook and so on. Duq needs to go sit in the corner and be quiet, and if Pitt chooses they will ask them to dance some time.
 
This is all well and good, but it’s important to recognize that doing that would almost certainly give Pitt the hardest schedule in college basketball by a pretty solid margin. That schedule would have been a gauntlet for the 08-09 team. It’d be a hell of a schedule for fans, but it would put the actual team at a disadvantage to almost every other team in the country who wouldn’t build half as challenging of a schedule.
With a schedule like that, the question is, could you trust the selection committee to reward/not punish Pitt for playing such a tough schedule, provided we win our fair share of those games? I think once we reach a point where we expect to win 11-12 games in the ACC, we could afford to play a schedule like that. You might lose 3 of those games, but if you end up 20-11, with a great sos, you ought to be rewarded. Pitt can't play that schedule yet, because they could realistically lose as many as 5 of those games, which even if they improved enough during the season to finish .500 in the ACC, would probably kill them. I like to see teams rewarded for challenging themselves, but you have to be up to handling the challenge to take the risk.
 
This is all well and good, but it’s important to recognize that doing that would almost certainly give Pitt the hardest schedule in college basketball by a pretty solid margin. That schedule would have been a gauntlet for the 08-09 team. It’d be a hell of a schedule for fans, but it would put the actual team at a disadvantage to almost every other team in the country who wouldn’t build half as challenging of a schedule.
You're kidding right? Wouldn't even be top 20 non conf.
 
If you want an actually solid, but achievable, OOC schedule, look at Penn State’s from last year. Same 20 game conference schedule. They had the Gavitt Games on the road at Georgetown, the ACC challenge against Wake Forest, the second year of a home/home versus Alabama, and a two-game tournament against Syracuse and Ole Miss (with OK State being the other team in the tournament). They buttressed it with two games against Ivies (a good Yale and a terrible, but usually decent, Cornell), a regional opponent in Bucknell (like RMU), and three total stinker buy games.

If you’re looking at a similar Pitt schedule, you could see:
Two Tourney games (shooting for at least one as a Q1 neutral, name brand opponent doesn’t matter)
B1G/ACC (Q1 if on road, Q1/Q2 if home)
High major home/home with local interest like WVU (again, Q1 on road, Q2 at home)
Duquesne (home or neutral - Q2 if they’re good, Q3 if they’re bad)
Big East Reprise (make it a neutral site at MSG or Barclays around the holidays after the students go home and the Zoo’s empty)
Five home mid/low majors - mix of regionals like Youngstown and St. Francis, a CUSA or MAC team like Akron, Kent, Marshall or an Ivy, and then fill the rest with Monmouth, Howard, American, etc.

Keeps it close, regional, interesting, good for NET, and winnable.
Looking at doing that schedule this year, that would be a very tough road for this particular Pitt team. You're adding a probable Q2 game in Duquesne, and likely a Q1 with your Big East opponent. They could very well pair us with Penn St. in the B10 Challenge. While Penn St. isn't expected to be as good as last year, they're not expected to suffer a dramatic falloff. On the road, it's probably a Q1 game. Then you add another Q1 in WVU. Lastly, you have the Myrtle Beach thing.At worst, Dayton, Utah St., Loyola, and Mizzou are probably going to be Q2 games. If you end up playing 2 games vs Q2s in Myrtle Beach, that means you're playing 3 Q1, and 3 Q2 games. One of Jamie's good teams could handle this, losing one, maybe two games tops, if not winning them all. I don't trust this team to handle a schedule like that at the start of the season. Just a bit too young and inexperienced. Considering also that there will probably be an early ACC game or two sprinkled in there, and the potential would be there for the team to get off to a bad start that might kill their confidence.
 
Looking at doing that schedule this year, that would be a very tough road for this particular Pitt team. You're adding a probable Q2 game in Duquesne, and likely a Q1 with your Big East opponent. They could very well pair us with Penn St. in the B10 Challenge. While Penn St. isn't expected to be as good as last year, they're not expected to suffer a dramatic falloff. On the road, it's probably a Q1 game. Then you add another Q1 in WVU. Lastly, you have the Myrtle Beach thing.At worst, Dayton, Utah St., Loyola, and Mizzou are probably going to be Q2 games. If you end up playing 2 games vs Q2s in Myrtle Beach, that means you're playing 3 Q1, and 3 Q2 games. One of Jamie's good teams could handle this, losing one, maybe two games tops, if not winning them all. I don't trust this team to handle a schedule like that at the start of the season. Just a bit too young and inexperienced. Considering also that there will probably be an early ACC game or two sprinkled in there, and the potential would be there for the team to get off to a bad start that might kill their confidence.
I agree with you - the type of schedule I outlined is more of a general yearly goal than something specifically for next season.
 
It's still a bad look or Pitt. But to those septuagenarians still hanging around the local media, these aren't local kids playing local kids. It is not the Nelson twins and Billy Knight and Keith Starr. Sam Clancy vs Bruce Atkins. BB Flenory or Norm Nixon vs Kirk Bruce and Tom Richards.

Pitt/Duquesne back in the day were often conference rivals, but also a celebration of local basketball. That has long since passed.
Why do you say it is a bad look? I mean, who is it really going to hurt? It's not going to hurt Pitt, so I don't see how it is a bad look.
 
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You're kidding right? Wouldn't even be top 20 non conf.


Your schedule would mean, depending on the tournament, probably 5-7 non-conference games against P6 teams.

Using the Pomeroy numbers (because that's what I have handy, feel free to use something else if you'd like) Kansas had the hardest non-conference schedule among the P6 schools last season. They played 4 P6 games, but they also had games against Dayton and BYU who were among the best non-P6s in the country.

North Carolina had the second hardest. They played 5 P6s, plus Gonzaga. 3 of those 5 were in the Atlantis tournament. Florida was third, they played 5 (3 from the Big East) plus UConn and Utah State who were both pretty good. Oklahoma was forth, they played 5 plus Wichita State. And the Hoopies were fifth. But they only played 4 (including us) plus they played Wichita as well. They did it more like Jamie Dixon used to do it, don't play anyone really bad, play a bunch of decent mid-majors

If you made sure not to schedule any of the really bad teams and instead play several decent mid-majors (like the Hoopies did), your non-conference schedule would easily be a top 10 P6 schedule, maybe even a top 5. There really are not many P6s who play 5 or 6 P6s in the non-conference, and I doubt (without looking at them all) that there were any that played 7.
 
Oh Pitt is damned if they do and damned if they don't in this town so be it. St penn doesn't want to schedule Pitt in football and we don't want to schedule Duquesne in hoops so what? Next..... onward
The two schools are what, 2-3 miles apart. You have like 12 OOC games? It really is nonsensical why they don't play. Don't get me wrong, I am not screaming that they should play, nor do I care if Pitt plays them or not. But it is a bad look for Pitt in not wanting to play that game.

I am sorry, I am truthseeker, I am not a BS maker. I say it like it is. Everything Pitt does is not the right thing just because Pitt does it. It is just like politics, just because your side does something, doesn't make it right, and the other side does something doesn't make it wrong. I see alot of this on this board and in general, it is either idiotic or at least intellectually dishonest. I wish people would stop doing this.
 
Your schedule would mean, depending on the tournament, probably 5-7 non-conference games against P6 teams.

Using the Pomeroy numbers (because that's what I have handy, feel free to use something else if you'd like) Kansas had the hardest non-conference schedule among the P6 schools last season. They played 4 P6 games, but they also had games against Dayton and BYU who were among the best non-P6s in the country.

North Carolina had the second hardest. They played 5 P6s, plus Gonzaga. 3 of those 5 were in the Atlantis tournament. Florida was third, they played 5 (3 from the Big East) plus UConn and Utah State who were both pretty good. Oklahoma was forth, they played 5 plus Wichita State. And the Hoopies were fifth. But they only played 4 (including us) plus they played Wichita as well. They did it more like Jamie Dixon used to do it, don't play anyone really bad, play a bunch of decent mid-majors

If you made sure not to schedule any of the really bad teams and instead play several decent mid-majors (like the Hoopies did), your non-conference schedule would easily be a top 10 P6 schedule, maybe even a top 5. There really are not many P6s who play 5 or 6 P6s in the non-conference, and I doubt (without looking at them all) that there were any that played 7.

And how many of the non conf opponents ended up in the top 20. My schedule would have three, maybe four and that's if the in season tournament has two of them.

WVU could be one top 20 program. PSU had a good run this year but their history suggests it was an outlier. Duquesne is getting better but way off from being a consistent top 20 team. Until we are finishing in the top 5 in the ACC we will be getting Northwestern, Nebraska, Rutgers and Minnesota in the Big 10 challenge.

And again, until we get consistently good no top 20 program is going to do a home and home with us. The best hope is a former BE rival like UConn or Marquette. Not sure how UConn will schedule now that they are back in the BE. Last season they played St. Joes, FL and Indiana plus their in season tournament.

Marquette played at Kansas St, at WI and home against Purdue and their in season tournament.

WVU had us URI, St Johns and Ohio State in addition to their in season tournament.

My point is most schools have about four P6 schools in their non conf schedule in addition to the in season tournament. So why not play games that are good for the fans? I guarantee the atmosphere at the Pete would be better if we play Duq than St. Joes. And would sell more tickets.

Finally. Jamie's scheduling wouldn't work today. The committee has repeatedly said you have to play good teams. Give him credit for exploiting the RPI system but RPI is no longer used by the committee. And what they have been consistent with the need to play and win Q1 and Q2 teams. If you don't believe me, ask NC St and Clemson who 2 seasons ago finished .500 in the ACC when the league was the best in the country but were left out because they lacked those wins and their ACC schedule (being a bottom feeder) didn't have them playing the top 6 or 7 teams very much.
 
Why do you say it is a bad look? I mean, who is it really going to hurt? It's not going to hurt Pitt, so I don't see how it is a bad look.
In a local area that seems for some reason to be anti Pitt, it is just another nail. It is not a big thing, but it seems like an easy thing to do.

And you have to remember, at least until conference season and then beyond (post season tourneys) in this region, people (media) don't follow college basketball and Pitt/Duquesne is one event that actually causes them some pause and actually pay attention.

Yeah in the big scheme, it doesn't hurt Pitt. It doesn't affect recruiting. But the negativity by alot of loud mouths in the local media are amped up further.
 
Why do you say it is a bad look? I mean, who is it really going to hurt? It's not going to hurt Pitt, so I don't see how it is a bad look.

Bad press rarely hurts anyone these days and this certainly this won't registered nationally. That doesn't mean it doesn't look bad, at least to those paying attention, to renege on a verbal agreement to play a historical cross-town opponent that had been played annually for the previous 48 consecutive seasons just when they happen to put together one of their best teams in decades. It looks bad from my perspective, not that my opinion, nor the opinion of any of the local news hacks, will inflict any actual damage or change a thing.

I am of the opinion the game should be played every year as long as Pitt and Duquesne are both Division 1 programs. But I'm a traditionalist that believes universities are better, more interesting places when histories and traditions are nurtured and protected when possible.
 
You asked why the Big Five schools don't always play Drexel. Drexel isn't a traditional opponent for any of the Big Five. Drexel has played Villanova, LaSalle, and Penn less than 30 times each, less than Pitt has played RMU. They haven't played Villanova since 2006.

Duquesne is very much a historical traditional opponent of Pitt. The comparison to Drexel isn't analogous.

Historically speaking, Drexel isn't even Philadelphia's Robert Morris. More like Philadelphia's Point Park.
 
Historically speaking, Drexel isn't even Philadelphia's Robert Morris. More like Philadelphia's Point Park.

I don't know if I'd go that far, Drexel was founded in 1891, well before those two. It just doesn't have the basketball tradition of playing the other schools.
 
I meant from a basketball sense. As an educational institution, more like Philly's CMU.

Oh lord, it is definitely not like Philly's CMU. But ok, from a basketball standpoint there is a wide gulf in pedigree between the Big 5 and Drexel. Drexel had some good years though under Bill Herrion and Bruiser Flint.

I'd say academically, it is more like Philly's RMU. It's known as a business school and for its co-op program.
 
DK knows nothing. The donors would play Duquesne, and we should play them. if not, we look like shi*, like the penn state program. It's a payday for the smaller programs; we should play RMU also and help them prosper. We're the big boys on the block, and responsibility comes with this role to support local basketball.
 
And we certainly don’t make as much money off a home game as PSU does in football.

This whole notion is ridiculous though. We’re going to believe that Capel and Lyke are taking scheduling advice from donors? That’s seriously what we’re going with? That’s the most far fetched thing I’ve ever heard.
Why? The AD and Chancellor listened to donors to oust Dixon.
 
In a local area that seems for some reason to be anti Pitt, it is just another nail. It is not a big thing, but it seems like an easy thing to do.

And you have to remember, at least until conference season and then beyond (post season tourneys) in this region, people (media) don't follow college basketball and Pitt/Duquesne is one event that actually causes them some pause and actually pay attention.

Yeah in the big scheme, it doesn't hurt Pitt. It doesn't affect recruiting. But the negativity by alot of loud mouths in the local media are amped up further.
Yeah, I could care less about the loud mouths.
 
With the number of non-conference games available and the garbage teams they parade into the Pete, there's no reason not to play Duquesne and RMU. Who in the hell cares about Binghamton, Ark Pine Bluff, Canisius, Niagara, Nicholls, or Northern Illinois.

There is no excuse. It's just dumb.
 
Sorry guys. You know what I have said. Duquesne is not an "equal program" or anything close to that. They don't warrant a joint home game or a home and home. They finally listened to me.
That is exactly what Penn St fans say about them not wanting to play Pitt in football. It is very arrogant and condescending.
 
The comparison between Pitt and PSU in football is silly. Pitt is certainly not a playoff contender, but we're a P5 team with a recent conference championship appearance. Pitt should definitely push for a continued home and home series there.

Pitt vs Duquesne is NOT a rivalry. That doesn't mean it should just be ignored. Nobody is arguing all of a sudden Duquesne should or will start beating Pitt routinely. That is the exact reason this series should continue. This should be somewhere between a tough win and an easy win every season. There is zero reason to be playing Arkansas Pine Bluff instead of Duquesne other than being wimps.

I was 100% against renewing the series with WVU because it was obvious we were going to get thumped in it. That's not going to happen here. Pitt will have a 50% chance or better to win this "rivalry" every time it is played.
 
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