Detroit

[Zaratoughda]

Something I should say here.... against Detroit.... I got the impression that they started posting up against us, in the low post area, including against Mike Young, and were scoring with that and so Dixon went to doubling the post and... with that they were getting guys open on the perimeter and were hitting their shots. THAT is why they were able to keep up with us and took a 1 point lead.

Then we went to the zone and, although some teams have torched our zone real bad, others have trouble with it and Detroit was not able to adapt and also ran out of gas at the same time... and that is why we had a 28 point swing and thus a 27 point lead and, game over at that point.

So, I don't think this really had much to do with the shorter shot clock or the hand check fouls being called or anything like that... just our Cs getting beat by the opposing Cs.

I haven't watched the replay yet but that is what I saw real time.

No?

 

[DC_Area_Panther]

Something I should say here.... against Detroit.... I got the impression that they started posting up against us, in the low post area, including against Mike Young, and were scoring with that and so Dixon went to doubling the post and... with that they were getting guys open on the perimeter and were hitting their shots. THAT is why they were able to keep up with us and took a 1 point lead.

Then we went to the zone and, although some teams have torched our zone real bad, others have trouble with it and Detroit was not able to adapt and also ran out of gas at the same time... and that is why we had a 28 point swing and thus a 27 point lead and, game over at that point.

So, I don't think this really had much to do with the shorter shot clock or the hand check fouls being called or anything like that... just our Cs getting beat by the opposing Cs.

I haven't watched the replay yet but that is what I saw real time.

No?

Our zone is better than in the past because we are longer and can close on 3 point shooters better, IMHO. Our zone was bad when our guards and wings lacked length.

On another note--No team I saw this weekend (watched all or part of half a dozen games) played 100% man defense. It's the most zone use I have ever seen. Coaches are reacting to inability to stop the dribble drive and low post scoring using man with the new rules officiating and to keep players from picking up too many fouls.

 

[DC_Area_Panther]

Scoring is up but mostly due to more foul shots being taken. Possessions per game, the commentator in the Mason game mentioned, are only up about 1 possession per game vs the 3 or more predicted to occur. So, basically the 30 second clock is basically a non-factor and the officiating sending players to the line more frequently is causing the scoring increase.

Teams without quality bench depth are at the biggest disadvantage due to so many fouls being called. I don't think players can adjust enough to the officiating for this to change much. I suspect what will be learned is that since they will call you for ticky tacky stuff you might as well foul shooters hard to make sure it is only FTs they get vs easy and-ones.

Welcome to the land of unintended consequences!!

 

[buckage]

As was said before, the longer you are the tougher your zone.

We are also faster, which helps with a zone. Quick feet can make up for a lot.

 

[Zaratoughda]

I just got finished watching the replay... and our zone was not that good. Detroit was getting LOTS of wide open shots but were just not hitting anything. I think it was the change of pace that they got hit with our zone, along with them just running out of gas that did them in going stone cold. Yeah, they were even missing wide open bunnies under the basket. Better teams will just hit those 3balls and our zone is going to be looking pretty bad. Our problem with the zone is we leave guys totally uncovered.

The first foul call on ANO was ticky-tack when he was hedging... but the second one was because he just expanded his chest into a Detroit player (lol) and got called for it. I never saw the 3rd foul call on him.

Jeter's first two fouls were totally unnecessary. He otherwise played pretty good.

It appears that Jamel Artis is not gonna wait until mid-season to get his O game going... and watching his D he did not look bad at all. If so and we get some of the kinks worked out, this should be a pretty good team, with two good defensive players, ANO and Smith, in the starting lineup, and then a bench that includes Jeter, Jones and Johnson.

Watching the replay Jones was looking good... making a lot of plays that won't show in the box score.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Scoring is up but mostly due to more foul shots being taken.

Actually scoring is up in part because teams are making both twos and threes at (relatively speaking) very high rates. Actual fouls called were up less than two fouls per game over the first weekend of the season.

 

[Zaratoughda]

I think the problem with our D is... our double teaming. It's not that you can't do it but you need to do it right. If you are gonna double the post the double should come from the OTHER side as that is where the man in the post can't see. But, if you have Robinson double then there is gonna be someone open on the perimeter that the man in the post can see and the ball is gonna go to him and then one of our players comes over to cover and then the ball goes to THEIR man, etc, until one of them gets a wide open shot.

This happens regardless of whether we are playing man or zone. We are doubling and that is leaving someone wide open.

 

[DC_Area_Panther]

It does look like the 2-ball is being scored at a higher rate due to the rules emphasis (particularly vs man to man defense) hurting the defenders ability to defend man to man. However, I think the rate will diminish as more and more zone is played vs man to man and the easy ones in the paint become harder to get.

As to the 3-ball, generally speaking all zone defenses are more vulnerable to the 3 ball than man to man defenses and the new rules make it difficult to fight through screens without fouling to close out 3-ball shooters and the movement to more zone also helps to create more open 3's.

However, given the new rules emphasis you are still better off against most opponents to play mostly zone and risk them hitting the 3 rather than giving up so much easy high percentage stuff in the paint since you cannot defend the dribble drive into the paint or keep the ball from too easily being passed inside in an effective manner given the new freedom of movement rules that forces you to give your opponent so much space to operate.

Since very few teams have more than 1 or two really dangerous 3-ball shooters you are probably better off in a zone or combo defense most of the time with one or two of your quicker defenders assigned to closing out on the 3-ball threat(s).

There are of course teams you can't do this well against because the have too many good 3 ball shooters including tall ones that are harder to close out on due to their height.

But, in general, I think the evidence is already in that a lot of zone, maybe eventually mostly zone is going to be played unless the officials back off on the ticky- tacky foul calling emphasis.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Well, either that or guys could learn how to play defense without needing to put their hands all over the guy with the ball, like they used to do.

One other thing. You have it backwards on fighting through screens to close out three point shooters. Enforcing the rules correctly makes it harder to set screens because the offensive player can't just jump out in front of the defender or move along with him anymore. Correct enforcement of the rules will make it somewhat easier to close down on three point shooters, not more difficult.