Does Pitt financially have a disadvantage with recruiting resources?

[mdpitt]

I'm not expert on this but does Pitt have any obstacles from the old regime that prohibits any kind of high end recruiting. I don't want to sound naive here but is the staff flying commercial wasting time when top 20 programs are get private aviation to towns across America? Are we driving 5 hours when others fly in on a helicopter?

Pitt is not exactly sitting in a hotbed of talent nor is Pitt right next to DC or NYC. Is there anything concrete that Coach has requested and has just been told NO?

I am a big fan of our Coach and am pretty sure he is one of the most outstanding citizens anyone could employ. I am very sure we just don't have a slick staff that gets down and dirty in the recruiting game. What I am unsure of is are we permitted to fly private just as many times as other programs or are we simply making a trip and then making a ton of calls to keep the relationship.

Everyone is really sour on Dixon but I would like to know if we have recruiting roadblocks.

 

[33pitt99]

Prior to this season, they were flying commercial. I was told that it was difficult to do one day trips because it was often tough to get a return flight after the high school games, even if they are in NY or other major cities. And the coaches need to be back for practices/prep the next morning. We all know how limited the flights in and out of Pgh are now - the airport practically shuts down at 8 or 9 pm.

This is a definite disadvantage compared to our competition. I was surprised when I heard this, but am hoping things have changed with the new regime.

 

[King Of All Message Boards]

I'm not an expert by any stretch but it certainly seems the football team was given more resources under the new regime. I'm hopeful that Dixon will be afforded the same thing, whatever that may be within reason. And I say within reason because I don't think he'll ever be jet setting across the country in private planes. It also seems clear Narduzzi had more money for assistants - again hopefully Dixon will get the same if he feels he needs to retool his staff.

I'm sure someone with some inside knowledge will be able to speak to any current roadblocks.

 

[DT_PITT]

Prior to this season, they were flying commercial. I was told that it was difficult to do one day trips because it was often tough to get a return flight after the high school games, even if they are in NY or other major cities. And the coaches need to be back for practices/prep the next morning. We all know how limited the flights in and out of Pgh are now - the airport practically shuts down at 8 or 9 pm.

This is a definite disadvantage compared to our competition. I was surprised when I heard this, but am hoping things have changed with the new regime.

I know they have used a charted jet within the past 6-7 months.

 

[TIGER-PAUL]

Doesn't make sense. Pitt ponied up nearly a top10 salary for the hc, a 10 yr contract, is in a P5 conf and has claimed a season ticket waiting list for years.

 

[33pitt99]

I know they have used a charted jet within the past 6-7 months.

Glad to hear that! I was surprised when I was told about going commercial - had always assumed they had access to charters or private jets for recruiting. The discussion occurred in July/August timeframe, so I'm guessing Barnes must have made a change for this season. I think we finally have an AD who gets it. You can't win recruiting battles without adequate resources.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

I$n't it $illy that you need private jet$ to recruit teenager$ to play ball. It tell$ you all you need to know about college athletic$ !

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Basketball recruiting is super cheap. You only need 3-4 guys and most of it is 1 stop shopping at the AAU meat market events. Recruiting expenses have nothing to do with our recruiting failures. Maybe more than anything, the fact that more players are foregoing playing HS ball to move away from their families to play at a basketball mill or prep school has hurt us. Our coaches havent made the adjustment in recruiting these kids, all of whom have handlers now, its not just the top tier kids.

 

[Piranha]

They will be making about 20 million more in the ACC than what they made in the BE, so they should have a lot more advantages. Ironically, 2 of the recruits we landed in the Fr/So class were done within a 20 mile trip from campus with more money coming in. Go figure.

 

[Pittbaseball11]

Doesn't make sense. Pitt ponied up nearly a top10 salary for the hc, a 10 yr contract, is in a P5 conf and has claimed a season ticket waiting list for years.

Heavily incentive-laden deal. Only $1.4MM base salary, per Pitt's tax returns.

They've been subsidizing the rest of the athletic department with the basketball team's profits for several years. Football more or less breaks even so they've pretty much kept the athletic department afloat with Conference TV money and basketball's profits.

This is the first year they've had a full season of ACC TV money. Last year they were on the hook for the $7.5MM exit fee due to the BE, so they pretty much wound up netting what they got back in the BE.

I don't think facilities upgrades, increased budgets, and use of the private jets for the football and basketball teams are purely a coincidence.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

They will be making about 20 million more in the ACC than what they made in the BE, so they should have a lot more advantages. Ironically, 2 of the recruits we landed in the Fr/So class were done within a 20 mile trip from campus with more money coming in. Go figure.

Those two guys were not their targets , they were guys Pitt settled for.

 

[PantherO]

Jamie needs better recruiters on his staff. Whether it is better in terms of salesmen ship, or better in terms of evaluating talent. I do think this is why Pitt has started to sink. If Dixon's contract is too large for Pitt to absorb (If going that route), then someone needs to have a talk with Dixon (the AD) and tell him to upgrade his coaches.

I class rated at 74th is very good, unless of course, they are the types of kids Pitt used to recruit and coach up. Which I am fine with. But someone at some point has to say enough is enough. When do we reach that point?

 

[Jeffburgh]

SMF is mostly right.

It isn't like football.

I do think the landscape changed from the traditional high school basketball scene with a few prep schools to being much more about AAU ball, and that has effected JD a bit.

But, mostly, I think

1) He just went away from what was working - e.g. powerful big men to the same kind of big man as the other non top 10 programs had.
2) He went away from what was working in toying with things - started with the shooting PG with Gibbs to the point wing thing. He transitioned back to a more traditional lead guard with JROB, just hitched his wagon to a mediocre guy there for four years. The point forward thing has proven effective with Wanny, then Patterson, but has failed since with Wright and Artis. But, this team has no identify, just a bunch of half and halfs - guys who are half power forward/small forward, half small forward/shooting guard.
3) He got pets into spots and never saw fit (or half heartedly or failed to successfully) to try to recruit over them. So, the team was limited for three years with a 6-3 PF starting, the team has been limited with JROB.
4) He got VERY lax with his assistants. The first half of his career he tried to bring in either an experienced guy or a sharp up and comer. He seemed to lose his heart 5 years ago or so and started settling.

 

[Delpanther]

We're at a disadvantage but it has nothing to do with resources. The rest of div1 plays the recruiting game one way and Pitt approaches the exercise as if they are any Ivy League team. AAAu handlers....ooo, we don't deal with such unsavory people. Well guess what- if you don't, you eliminate your ability to effectively recruit a large pool of players including many of the better ones. Add to that, whether rightly or wrongly, we've been tagged as a team that's behind the times offensively and doesn't develop players for the pros. Money won't counter either of these factors.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

I do think the landscape changed from the traditional high school basketball scene with a few prep schools to being much more about AAU ball, and that has effected JD a bit.

But, mostly, I think

I think Jamie was at his best in living rooms in NY/NJ and Philly talking to HS players and their families. There are very few of those players left. Its a much more difficult sell for him in a dorm room at some New England prep school with the player's handler and coach there also. He just hasnt been very good at it at all.

If you look at our next 2 recruits, though not terribly highly rated, they are HS players so maybe he is trying to get back to that kind of recruiting but like I said, there are so few good players still playing HS ball nowadays.

 

[Piranha]

Those two guys were not their targets , they were guys Pitt settled for.

That is why this program has gone backwards. We are Settlers while the other programs have evolved. Refer to the DirecTV commercial. Tongue in cheek.

 

[Delpanther]

I think Jamie was at his best in living rooms in NY/NJ and Philly talking to HS players and their families. There are very few of those players left. Its a much more difficult sell for him in a dorm room at some New England prep school with the player's handler and coach there also. He just hasnt been very good at it at all.

If you look at our next 2 recruits, though not terribly highly rated, they are HS players so maybe he is trying to get back to that kind of recruiting but like I said, there are so few good players still playing HS ball nowadays.

Jamie's schtick only works in NY and NJ? His schstick doesn't work anywhere and that's the problem. The pool of available players in the territories in which Pitt currently recruits is no smaller today than what it was 10 years ago- we just can't convince enough kids to join the party

 

[Jeffburgh]

I think Jamie was at his best in living rooms in NY/NJ and Philly talking to HS players and their families. There are very few of those players left. Its a much more difficult sell for him in a dorm room at some New England prep school with the player's handler and coach there also. He just hasnt been very good at it at all.

If you look at our next 2 recruits, though not terribly highly rated, they are HS players so maybe he is trying to get back to that kind of recruiting but like I said, there are so few good players still playing HS ball nowadays.

They do play HS ball, too.

Kithkart plays AAU ball, I am assuming Maginault does, too.

It just is that the the recruiting war zone has moved, as you noted, to the AAU battlefront more than the traditional high school battle front.

Even at that, however, JD has lost his way in the TYPES of players he is recruiting.

Quit farting around with the same types of players the other non top 10 programs get, get HIS kind of players. Tough and physical big men in particular. Get a less limited lead guard, like Kithkart.

And, for the love of christ, get FOR REAL SHOOTING GUARDS.

 

[levance2]

1) He just went away from what was working - e.g. powerful big men to the same kind of big man as the other non top 10 programs had.
2) He went away from what was working in toying with things - started with the shooting PG with Gibbs to the point wing thing. He transitioned back to a more traditional lead guard with JROB, just hitched his wagon to a mediocre guy there for four years. The point forward thing has proven effective with Wanny, then Patterson, but has failed since with Wright and Artis. But, this team has no identify, just a bunch of half and halfs - guys who are half power forward/small forward, half small forward/shooting guard.
3) He got pets into spots and never saw fit (or half heartedly or failed to successfully) to try to recruit over them. So, the team was limited for three years with a 6-3 PF starting, the team has been limited with JROB.
4) He got VERY lax with his assistants. The first half of his career he tried to bring in either an experienced guy or a sharp up and comer. He seemed to lose his heart 5 years ago or so and started settling.

He didn't really "get away from" most of those things, he just either failed or had no better option.

1. He's brought a whole bunch of centers, none of whom worked. Maybe he expected Maia or ANO to translate better, given both were productive players elsewhere, but obviously that didn't happen.
2. Gibbs was only ever PG by default. Woodall was his typical PG archetype, and we know Epps was a colossal waste.
3. I don't think there have been any PFs or JRob that Dixon didn't like what he had. I see no evidence of that.
4. Again, I don't think his preference has changed, the guys he has just aren't that great. He tried to get Herrion back and he didn't want to come. Smoke is/was supposed to be an up-and-comer and was involved in some atypical recruiting interests.

 

[BuffetParrothead]

I'm not expert on this but does Pitt have any obstacles from the old regime that prohibits any kind of high end recruiting. I don't want to sound naive here but is the staff flying commercial wasting time when top 20 programs are get private aviation to towns across America? Are we driving 5 hours when others fly in on a helicopter?

Pitt is not exactly sitting in a hotbed of talent nor is Pitt right next to DC or NYC. Is there anything concrete that Coach has requested and has just been told NO?

I am a big fan of our Coach and am pretty sure he is one of the most outstanding citizens anyone could employ. I am very sure we just don't have a slick staff that gets down and dirty in the recruiting game. What I am unsure of is are we permitted to fly private just as many times as other programs or are we simply making a trip and then making a ton of calls to keep the relationship.

Everyone is really sour on Dixon but I would like to know if we have recruiting roadblocks.

Few U's are sitting on local talent they have to go find it.
Good coaches have contacts and a feeder system for talent in other areas to become familiar with their U.
Philly , DC, NY, Baltimore, NJ just to mention a few are all under a 5 hr drive from Piittburgh and have great HS basketball.
The PIttsburgh recruiting excuse doesn't hold water. How does Iowa, Michigan St, , Okalhoma St., Wichita St, to name a few find players.
They get in a car, or plane, travel, work hard to find who they want.

 

[Jeffburgh]

He didn't really "get away from" most of those things, he just either failed or had no better option.

1. He's brought a whole bunch of centers, none of whom worked. Maybe he expected Maia or ANO to translate better, given both were productive players elsewhere, but obviously that didn't happen. I do agree he got hit by some really bad circumstances with Birch/Adams at center. I don't fault him too much there, and didn't point out C for that reason.
2. Gibbs was only ever PG by default. Woodall was his typical PG archetype, and we know Epps was a colossal waste. He recruited GIbbs to start at PF with Wanny as a point guard/small forward. Woodall was a longer arching developmental PG. Epps was definitely a tragic swing and miss.
3. I don't think there have been any PFs or JRob that Dixon didn't like what he had. I see no evidence of that. You missed my point. I was referring specifically to PF during the Nas years. He just never had the sense of urgency to recruit a for real PF and stuck with Nas as a starter for three years, while that team was reasonably successful, that held it back.
4. Again, I don't think his preference has changed, the guys he has just aren't that great. He tried to get Herrion back and he didn't want to come. Smoke is/was supposed to be an up-and-comer and was involved in some atypical recruiting interests. He absolutely transitioned from having pieces that fit at positions to this thing of trying to have guys who had multi-positional capacities. Again, that is why he has a roster full of 4/3s and 3/2s.

 

[NTOP]

I'm not expert on this but does Pitt have any obstacles from the old regime that prohibits any kind of high end recruiting. I don't want to sound naive here but is the staff flying commercial wasting time when top 20 programs are get private aviation to towns across America? Are we driving 5 hours when others fly in on a helicopter?

Pitt is not exactly sitting in a hotbed of talent nor is Pitt right next to DC or NYC. Is there anything concrete that Coach has requested and has just been told NO?

I am a big fan of our Coach and am pretty sure he is one of the most outstanding citizens anyone could employ. I am very sure we just don't have a slick staff that gets down and dirty in the recruiting game. What I am unsure of is are we permitted to fly private just as many times as other programs or are we simply making a trip and then making a ton of calls to keep the relationship.

Everyone is really sour on Dixon but I would like to know if we have recruiting roadblocks.

Not everyone is sour on Dixon....just a few malcontents. NO ONE is happy with the current results, nor should they be. I guess some people never make mistakes, or have tough times in their lives. Gee, I wish I'd get a run like that.

 

[paulbl99]

SMF is mostly right.

It isn't like football.

I do think the landscape changed from the traditional high school basketball scene with a few prep schools to being much more about AAU ball, and that has effected JD a bit.

But, mostly, I think

1) He just went away from what was working - e.g. powerful big men to the same kind of big man as the other non top 10 programs had.
2) He went away from what was working in toying with things - started with the shooting PG with Gibbs to the point wing thing. He transitioned back to a more traditional lead guard with JROB, just hitched his wagon to a mediocre guy there for four years. The point forward thing has proven effective with Wanny, then Patterson, but has failed since with Wright and Artis. But, this team has no identify, just a bunch of half and halfs - guys who are half power forward/small forward, half small forward/shooting guard.
3) He got pets into spots and never saw fit (or half heartedly or failed to successfully) to try to recruit over them. So, the team was limited for three years with a 6-3 PF starting, the team has been limited with JROB.
4) He got VERY lax with his assistants. The first half of his career he tried to bring in either an experienced guy or a sharp up and comer. He seemed to lose his heart 5 years ago or so and started settling.

Are you saying....

He's a Settler?

 

[Jeffburgh]

Are you saying....

He's a Settler?

For a long period of time, yes.
I see some glimmer of hope that he started to move past that last summer.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

That is why this program has gone backwards. We are Settlers while the other programs have evolved. Refer to the DirecTV commercial. Tongue in cheek.

They settled because that's all that was available to them and if CamJ makes the same jump as Luther did this yr and Luther keeps improving it could be all that's needed to get the ship turned in the right direction. I'm not happy with the current state of the program ,but I do feel with the I incoming players next yr plus the red shirts things are brighter down the road than the naysayers like to point out.

 

[73CAV]

Basketball recruiting is super cheap. You only need 3-4 guys and most of it is 1 stop shopping at the AAU meat market events. Recruiting expenses have nothing to do with our recruiting failures. Maybe more than anything, the fact that more players are foregoing playing HS ball to move away from their families to play at a basketball mill or prep school has hurt us. Our coaches havent made the adjustment in recruiting these kids, all of whom have handlers now, its not just the top tier kids.

The prep school thing has been happening for a long while. Kids have been going to Oak Hill in Virginia for decades to enhance their BB fortunes. If I am not mistaken, Pitt used to recruit Flint Hill before they de-emphasized their basketball program (and their coach moved on to Montross). Then there was always the parochial school thing in the northeast (DeMatha, Cardinal Gibbons, Power Memorial, etc.). The real change, IMO, has been the growth of AAU ball, and its near mercenary approach to the game with its attendant sleeze factor. Among other things, the whole AAU thing was one of the reasons that Gary Williams retired from Maryland and basketball coaching. At least, that is what I was led to believe.