First 8 Seasons vs The Last 6 Seasons

[Piranha]

Glory Years vs Average Years - Time to look at the differences between the two.

1) 2 Sweet 16's and Elite 8 vs Nothing beyond Top 32.

2) Tough teams who played well together vs Teams who are up and down that do not play as a unit. Patterson and Zanna had good traits, but even their teams did not have all 5 working in cohesion.

3) Good assistant coaches with a good #1 asst. vs Barton, Knight, etc. without a good #1 asst coach.

4) Better overall player development that usually contained 1 GLF every year vs Periodic player development here and there.

5) Very Few Guys Transferred vs A lot of player shuffling

 

[Piranha]

What makes anyone think we will get beyond average? We have a bunch of upperclassmen who were not good leaders or team players this year, and not much in the current Fr and So classes. The first 8 seasons we were a Top 15 programs. The last 6 seasons - somewhere around top 40-50 program.

 

[gary2]

Glory Years vs Average Years - Time to look at the differences between the two.

1) 2 Sweet 16's and Elite 8 vs Nothing beyond Top 32.

2) Tough teams who played well together vs Teams who are up and down that do not play as a unit. Patterson and Zanna had good traits, but even their teams did not have all 5 working in cohesion.

3) Good assistant coaches with a good #1 asst. vs Barton, Knight, etc. without a good #1 asst coach.

4) Better overall player development that usually contained 1 GLF every year vs Periodic player development here and there.

5) Very Few Guys Transferred vs A lot of player shuffling

Things started to go bad the year Woodall got hurt and we had no reasonable alternative. Jamie tried Ashton at the point and Ashton became disgruntled. We lost both Gibbs brothers as a result.

Then we pick Birch over Bond and damage our PA connection.

The nail in the coffin came when Jamie brought in Zeigler and he eventually decided to play him over John Johnson. That decision sealed our path to decline. Things could have been so different.

We could have really used John Johnson these last couple of years. Ashton gave the kid a ton of experience on getting the ball thrown to you with 2 or 3 seconds left on the shot clock. At least he was willing to shoot it.

 

[TIGER-PAUL]

Good points. I think alot of it was those recruiting misses along with the unexpected attrition of several others. It stopped the Howland/Dixon cycle of having several 4-5 yr guys on the roster. Plus the ACC being overall more talented made the transition tougher than Pitt expected a factor.

 

[KiwiJeff]

Things started to go bad the year Woodall got hurt and we had no reasonable alternative. Jamie tried Ashton at the point and Ashton became disgruntled. We lost both Gibbs brothers as a result.

Then we pick Birch over Bond and damage our PA connection.

The nail in the coffin came when Jamie brought in Zeigler and he eventually decided to play him over John Johnson. That decision sealed our path to decline. Things could have been so different.

We could have really used John Johnson these last couple of years. Ashton gave the kid a ton of experience on getting the ball thrown to you with 2 or 3 seconds left on the shot clock. At least he was willing to shoot it.

Penn state couldn't even use John Johnson, we would not have helped us.

 

[bobfree]

Things started to go bad the year Woodall got hurt and we had no reasonable alternative. Jamie tried Ashton at the point and Ashton became disgruntled. We lost both Gibbs brothers as a result.

Then we pick Birch over Bond and damage our PA connection.

The nail in the coffin came when Jamie brought in Zeigler and he eventually decided to play him over John Johnson. That decision sealed our path to decline. Things could have been so different.

We could have really used John Johnson these last couple of years. Ashton gave the kid a ton of experience on getting the ball thrown to you with 2 or 3 seconds left on the shot clock. At least he was willing to shoot it.

I don't think playing Zeigler over Johnson hurt us at all.

John Johnson wasn't a quality player.

I think more detrimental was misusing Zeigler. Who was a quality player at Tcu his senior year. But that is a minor point and seems like nit picking.

 

[Piranha]

I don't think playing Zeigler over Johnson hurt us at all.

John Johnson wasn't a quality player.

I think more detrimental was misusing Zeigler. Who was a quality player at Tcu his senior year. But that is a minor point and seems like nit picking.

Agreed - More and more guys have lost confidence in their game and simply are not playing up to their potential over the past 6 years. Basketball is a team game in which you should be playing as one unit on offense and defense. It is fun for the team and fans to watch. Our teams have not done this for a long time.

 

[joeydavid]

Point guard play should be points 1 thru 5. Put a Krauser or Fields level point guard on this team over the last 4 years and you have similar results as the first 8 years.

I don't think anyone can overestimate how a point guard that can't effectively penetrate, shoot or defend will hobble any team. JRob needed to be recruited over his sophmore year. By all accounts he's good kid and hard worker but the talent was as a back up in the ACC.

Glory Years vs Average Years - Time to look at the differences between the two.

1) 2 Sweet 16's and Elite 8 vs Nothing beyond Top 32.

2) Tough teams who played well together vs Teams who are up and down that do not play as a unit. Patterson and Zanna had good traits, but even their teams did not have all 5 working in cohesion.

3) Good assistant coaches with a good #1 asst. vs Barton, Knight, etc. without a good #1 asst coach.

4) Better overall player development that usually contained 1 GLF every year vs Periodic player development here and there.

5) Very Few Guys Transferred vs A lot of player shuffling

 

[gary2]

I don't think playing Zeigler over Johnson hurt us at all.

John Johnson wasn't a quality player.

I think more detrimental was misusing Zeigler. Who was a quality player at Tcu his senior year. But that is a minor point and seems like nit picking.

The John Johnson reference is kinda an inside joke, but I think you would have to admit that at least John Johnson was a guard. John Johnson could and would shoot the 3 and John Johnson was quick and could finish on the break or convert at the line.

Johnson could have been a very useful player under other circumstances. He just made poor choices when it came to the programs and coaches he selected.

 

[VAPITTALUM]

Point guard play should be points 1 thru 5. Put a Krauser or Fields level point guard on this team over the last 4 years and you have similar results as the first 8 years.

I don't think anyone can overestimate how a point guard that can't effectively penetrate, shoot or defend will hobble any team. JRob needed to be recruited over his sophmore year. By all accounts he's good kid and hard worker but the talent was as a back up in the ACC.

Nailed it. James Robinson just is not the guard to break down a defense and pull defenders out of position. Krauser, Knight, Woodall, and Fields all had that quality.

My hope is the return of the majority of the team, with the insertion of Kithcart, who is that penetrating guard which this team has missed.

When you had Robinson and guys like Maia and Ododa in the game, the defense really only needed to worry about 3 guys.

 

[Delpanther]

Nailed it. James Robinson just is not the guard to break down a defense and pull defenders out of position. Krauser, Knight, Woodall, and Fields all had that quality.

My hope is the return of the majority of the team, with the insertion of Kithcart, who is that penetrating guard which this team has missed.

When you had Robinson and guys like Maia and Ododa in the game, the defense really only needed to worry about 3 guys.

How the hell can a supposedly competent coach see Robinson game in and game out and have been satisfied with the quality of his PG play? This Coach is stubborn with huge blindspots.

 

[PittPoker]

How the hell can a supposedly competent coach see Robinson game in and game out and have been satisfied with the quality of his PG play? This Coach is stubborn with huge blindspots.

Exactly. I kept writing on here how bad Robinson was but he kept getting defended like we were LUCKY to have him. Class Act kept getting mentioned about him over and over as well.

Great, he's a class act. But he was a lousy point guard for us and with him running the show our teams did nothing.