Five Biggest Mistakes

[Fsgolfdr]

Here‘s my order of the five biggest mistakes that Pitt has made with regards to the bb program exclusive of leaving the Big East which has to be the number one blunder , but a necessary financial move .

1) Hiring Scott Barnes as AD
2) Hiring Kevin “splash” Stallings
3) Extending Jeff Capels contract
4) Forcing JD out
5) Allowing boosters to influence coaching decisions

#1 none of this happens without Barnes
#2 needs no explanation
#3 was premature and now ties Heathers hand
#4 JD had hit the wall at Pitt and a great hire at that time might have been just what the program needed . ( I’d have given him 2 more seasons )
#5 big boosters can rub shoulders with the AD, coaches and players and have court side seats , let the coaching decisions to the pros .

If there was a #6 it would be retaining JC not in hiring him . Pitt was in a pickle and to her credit Heather found what most thought was an exciting hire out of nowhere . It just hasn’t panned out and keeping him would be mistake . If he’s retained make no mistake it’s a financial decision which wouldn’t surprise me one bit .

 

[PittMan2003]

Here‘s my order of the five biggest mistakes that Pitt has made with regards to the bb program exclusive of leaving the Big East which has to be the number one blunder , but a necessary financial move .

1) Hiring Scott Barnes as AD
2) Hiring Kevin “splash” Stallings
3) Extending Jeff Capels contract
4) Forcing JD out
5) Allowing boosters to influence coaching decisions

#1 none of this happens without Barnes
#2 needs no explanation
#3 was premature and now ties Heathers hand
#4 JD had hit the wall at Pitt and a great hire at that time might have been just what the program needed . ( I’d have given him 2 more seasons )
#5 big boosters can rub shoulders with the AD, coaches and players and have court side seats , let the coaching decisions to the pros .

If there was a #6 it would be retaining JC not in hiring him . Pitt was in a pickle and to her credit Heather found what most thought was an exciting hire out of nowhere . It just hasn’t panned out and keeping him would be mistake . If he’s retained make no mistake it’s a financial decision which wouldn’t surprise me one bit .

That seems like a pretty solid list. And pretty good order. I don’t know enough about the boosters and what effect they had. Which coaching decision or decisions did they impact?

 

[PittMan2003]

Pitt football and basketball had pretty similar situations. Force out or fire a successful coach (stache and Dixon) followed by horrendous new hires. It took Pitt football 11 years to finally get back on track. Pitt basketball is in year six and isn’t even close to getting back on track.
But in reality Pitt football never fell to the depths of pitt basketball. 6-6 seasons under fraud and graham followed by 8 win seasons under Narduzzi is light years ahead of what pitt basketball has become.

 

[LeftCoastPanther]

Gallagher not liking Dixon needs to be on the list somewhere.

Freaking flabbergasting to me.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

All of this aside, we're probably a projected 4-seed if some guys could just get along. I wonder if Champagnie's girlfriend knows how much she decimated this program.

 

[PittMan2003]

All of this aside, we're probably a projected 4-seed if some guys could just get along. I wonder if Champagnie's girlfriend knows how much she decimated this program.

Yeah the talent would be better. But I think you might underestimate capel‘s ability to screw things up. He’s really terrible.

we would probably be a projected four seed and then lose like eight or nine games in February and play our way out of the tournament.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

Yeah the talent would be better. But I think you might underestimate capel‘s ability to screw things up. He’s really terrible.

Very possible. I just think Johnson, Toney, and Hugley returning sets off a chain reaction of Champagnie not going pro and possibly even landing Efton Reid. Could be wishful thinking to some extent, but I saw what 8-2 looked like, and there aren't many good teams in this conference.

 

[snaphook297]

Who exactly were the donors who forced out Dixon ? I’m calling bull shit on this narrative ok boys name names

 

[PittMan2003]

Very possible. I just think Johnson, Toney, and Hugley returning sets off a chain reaction of Champagnie not going pro and possibly even landing Efton Reid. Could be wishful thinking to some extent, but I saw what 8-2 looked like, and there aren't many good teams in this conference.

I agree. Things could be a lot different. And yeah maybe we have Reid and maybe some decent recruits for next year in the pipeline. But either way for some reason capel just folds in February and March. It’s really hard to even understand.

 

[TheSpecialSauce]

Very possible. I just think Johnson, Toney, and Hugley returning sets off a chain reaction of Champagnie not going pro and possibly even landing Efton Reid. Could be wishful thinking to some extent, but I saw what 8-2 looked like, and there aren't many good teams in this conference.

Capel sucks. They lost handily to St. Francis with those guys.

 

[pittchagg]

The Capel extension has absolutely nothing to do with anything. It’s not going to impact whatever the decision is either way. It’s totally meaningless.

 

[sonofabit]

Gallagher not liking Dixon needs to be on the list somewhere.

Freaking flabbergasting to me.

Tiresome agent talk posturing for raises every year?

 

[LeftCoastPanther]

Tiresome agent talk posturing for raises every year?

How many of those years did that happen under Gallagher?

Also, welcome to big-time sports, Pitt. Don’t like it, move to the AAC.

 

[Parkview57]

let the coaching decisions to the pros .

You mean like Barnes,Stevie, and Heather?

 

[Fsgolfdr]

You mean like Barnes,Stevie, and Heather?

If that’s the people you’ve entrusted to run your departments then that’s on you . Allowing boosters to influence hiring and firing decisions is going a step too far .

Of those three Stevie was smart enough to keep paying JD !

Heathers mistake was jumping the gun with the extension.

There is no excuse for Barnes .

 

[Fsgolfdr]

The Capel extension has absolutely nothing to do with anything. It’s not going to impact whatever the decision is either way. It’s totally meaningless.

Hope your writing the check if you think an additional 6 or 7 million is meaningless .

Pitt bb isn’t flush w cash , the Pete is empty and has been now for 6 yrs . No additional monies from parking & concession revenue . I dare to think of the decline in donations for the program .

Hiring anyone other than a Pitino type will not generate any substantial increase in ticket and donation revenue and hiring a mid major guy might save an additional 500 season ticket holders from jumping ship . Money is an issue .

 

[Fsgolfdr]

Very possible. I just think Johnson, Toney, and Hugley returning sets off a chain reaction of Champagnie not going pro and possibly even landing Efton Reid. Could be wishful thinking to some extent, but I saw what 8-2 looked like, and there aren't many good teams in this conference.

Justin and Toney were never going to be on the same team again !

Justin was never returning and it had nothing to do with who is teammates were going to be , the lure of the pros and the money were responsible for his departure .

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Here‘s my order of the five biggest mistakes that Pitt has made with regards to the bb program exclusive of leaving the Big East which has to be the number one blunder , but a necessary financial move .

1) Hiring Scott Barnes as AD
2) Hiring Kevin “splash” Stallings
3) Extending Jeff Capels contract
4) Forcing JD out
5) Allowing boosters to influence coaching decisions

#1 none of this happens without Barnes
#2 needs no explanation
#3 was premature and now ties Heathers hand
#4 JD had hit the wall at Pitt and a great hire at that time might have been just what the program needed . ( I’d have given him 2 more seasons )
#5 big boosters can rub shoulders with the AD, coaches and players and have court side seats , let the coaching decisions to the pros .

If there was a #6 it would be retaining JC not in hiring him . Pitt was in a pickle and to her credit Heather found what most thought was an exciting hire out of nowhere . It just hasn’t panned out and keeping him would be mistake . If he’s retained make no mistake it’s a financial decision which wouldn’t surprise me one bit .

No one can argue those. Although I'd change Dixon's to "reducing Dixon's buyout." If a guy really wants to leave, there's nothing you can do but if TCU didn't want him bad enough to pay his buyout, well tough then.

Honestly, you could have hired a group of middle school kids to run Pitt basketball these last 10 years and the results would have been the same, possibly better. I still say Pitt should have sued Barnes for a breach of fiduciary duty.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

The Capel extension has absolutely nothing to do with anything. It’s not going to impact whatever the decision is either way. It’s totally meaningless.

EVERYTHING is considered. Everything. That doesn't mean he won't be fired but paying a guy $12 million not to coach will be a gigantic factor. Pitt basketball has literally been operating at a net loss (if you dont count ESPN revenue).

 

[TheSpecialSauce]

EVERYTHING is considered. Everything. That doesn't mean he won't be fired but paying a guy $12 million not to coach will be a gigantic factor. Pitt basketball has literally been operating at a net loss (if you dont count ESPN revenue).

How many times do people have to tell you it won’t be 12 million when it is all said and done, and it isn’t one lump sum?

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

How many times do people have to tell you it won’t be 12 million when it is all said and done, and it isn’t one lump sum?

Explain why Capel would agree to take less than the full amount that his contract states?

 

[pittchagg]

Explain why Capel would agree to take less than the full amount that his contract states?

How do you know what his contract states?

 

[TheSpecialSauce]

How do you know what his contract states?

LOL - I was just going to post this, but then I realized it was pointless to try and engage with SMF.

 

[pittzip]

Explain why Capel would agree to take less than the full amount that his contract states?

its not 12 Milly
So drop it.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Pitt basketball has literally been operating at a net loss (if you dont count ESPN revenue).

Which is a really dumb way to look at it.

The Stillers have literally been operating at a net loss for decades (if you don't count television revenue). The Pirates have been literally operating at a net loss for decades (if you don't count television revenue). The Penguins have been operating at a net loss for pretty much their whole history (if you don't count television revenue). General Motors has literally been operating at a loss (if you don't count the revenue from selling cars). American Airlines has literally been operating at a net loss (if you don't count the revenue from flying people places).

And on an on and on.

Why would you ever look at someone's profit or loss by excluding their largest source of revenue?

 

[King Of All Message Boards]

Which is a really dumb way to look at it.

The Stillers have literally been operating at a net loss for decades (if you don't count television revenue). The Pirates have been literally operating at a net loss for decades (if you don't count television revenue). The Penguins have been operating at a net loss for pretty much their whole history (if you don't count television revenue). General Motors has literally been operating at a loss (if you don't count the revenue from selling cars). American Airlines has literally been operating at a net loss (if you don't count the revenue from flying people places).

And on an on and on.

Why would you ever look at someone's profit or loss by excluding their largest source of revenue?

I realize you know the answer but it’s common around here to cherry pick or just generally be outrageously idiotic in an effort to maintain an inaccurate point.

 

[WillFerrell]

All of this aside, we're probably a projected 4-seed if some guys could just get along. I wonder if Champagnie's girlfriend knows how much she decimated this program.

I was surprised this didn’t make this list. It falls under “honorable mention goes to O.P.P”

 

[PittPharm2002]

Which is a really dumb way to look at it.

The Stillers have literally been operating at a net loss for decades (if you don't count television revenue). The Pirates have been literally operating at a net loss for decades (if you don't count television revenue). The Penguins have been operating at a net loss for pretty much their whole history (if you don't count television revenue). General Motors has literally been operating at a loss (if you don't count the revenue from selling cars). American Airlines has literally been operating at a net loss (if you don't count the revenue from flying people places).

And on an on and on.

Why would you ever look at someone's profit or loss by excluding their largest source of revenue?

Smf proves time and again he has no understanding of money, accounting , or finances .
It’s almost fittapeldo like how consistently wrong his takes are

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Which is a really dumb way to look at it.

The Stillers have literally been operating at a net loss for decades (if you don't count television revenue). The Pirates have been literally operating at a net loss for decades (if you don't count television revenue). The Penguins have been operating at a net loss for pretty much their whole history (if you don't count television revenue). General Motors has literally been operating at a loss (if you don't count the revenue from selling cars). American Airlines has literally been operating at a net loss (if you don't count the revenue from flying people places).

And on an on and on.

Why would you ever look at someone's profit or loss by excluding their largest source of revenue?

Nope because those teams have ticket revenue, sponsorships, etc, and dont have to pay opposing teams to play them.

What you should have realized what I mean is that Pitt basketball, on its own, no longer makes any money. $0. Net loss. They need the ESPN money added in put them in the black. It never used to be this way as Pitt used to be able to make money on ticket sales.

 

[PittPharm2002]

Nope because those teams have ticket revenue, sponsorships, etc, and dont have to pay opposing teams to play them.

But if you don’t count those expenses , just like you aren’t counting the television revenue - we are profitable !

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

But if you don’t count those expenses , just like you aren’t counting the television revenue - we are profitable !

Sure. You can count whatever you want. Pitt basketball having a net loss without ESPN revenue is a valid concern.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Nope because those teams have ticket revenue, sponsorships, etc, and dont have to pay opposing teams to play them.

So what? Without their biggest revenue stream, television money, the Stillers lose nine figures per year, every year. Without their biggest revenue stream, television money, the Pirates lose tens of millions of dollars every year.

The notion that what's left after excluding someone's largest revenue source tells you anything at all about their finances is batshit crazy. Even by your standards it's utterly moronic.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Pitt basketball having a net loss without ESPN revenue is a valid concern.

Sure, for someone who isn't all the smart and who doesn't understand how finances work.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Sure, for someone who isn't all the smart and who doesn't understand how finances work.

Get me Steelers ticket sales, sponsorships, and other sales like beer, clothing, etc and get back to me. They are profitable without TV money.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

They are profitable without TV money.

If you think that then you have no idea whatsoever what the real situation is.

The Stillers obviously don't release their numbers, but because of their ownership structure the Packers are required to. Last year the Packers brought in $309 million in national television revenue. Their total from local revenue, ticket sales, sponsorships, concessions, all that stuff, was $62 million.

Now that's a bit unfair, because covid wrecked a lot of that. So let's look at the year before. Then it was a total of $206 million.

OK, so first question, which is larger, $309 million or $206 million?

Second question, if the salary cap is $208 million and you eliminated television revenue and so therefore only took in $206 million, would a team still be profitable?

Third question, are you going to admit that you got this completely wrong, or are you going to come up with some excuse as to how $206 million is greater than $309 million and how a team with revenues of $206 million could support a payroll of $208 million and be profitable?

 

[King Of All Message Boards]

Get me Steelers ticket sales, sponsorships, and other sales like beer, clothing, etc and get back to me. They are profitable without TV money.

This is one of the dumbest positions I’ve ever seen. And not just on message boards. It makes zero difference where the revenue comes from. And tv rights are an enormous piece for tons of sports and teams.

edit - unless as I said, you’re trolling. Which is a distinct possibility.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

If you think that then you have no idea whatsoever what the real situation is.

The Stillers obviously don't release their numbers, but because of their ownership structure the Packers are required to. Last year the Packers brought in $309 million in national television revenue. Their total from local revenue, ticket sales, sponsorships, concessions, all that stuff, was $62 million.

Now that's a bit unfair, because covid wrecked a lot of that. So let's look at the year before. Then it was a total of $206 million.

OK, so first question, which is larger, $309 million or $206 million?

Second question, if the salary cap is $208 million and you eliminated television revenue and so therefore only took in $206 million, would a team still be profitable?

Third question, are you going to admit that you got this completely wrong, or are you going to come up with some excuse as to how $206 million is greater than $309 million and how a team with revenues of $206 million could support a payroll of $208 million and be profitable?

Thank you for providing my point. Yes, the Steelers are profitable WITHOUT TV money. Their 2021 player payroll was $128 million

 

[Fsgolfdr]

How many times do people have to tell you it won’t be 12 million when it is all said and done, and it isn’t one lump sum?

So it’s 10 million over 5 yrs it’s still 10 million . Why would he settle for less unless it’s in one bulk payment ?

 

[Fsgolfdr]

If you think that then you have no idea whatsoever what the real situation is.

The Stillers obviously don't release their numbers, but because of their ownership structure the Packers are required to. Last year the Packers brought in $309 million in national television revenue. Their total from local revenue, ticket sales, sponsorships, concessions, all that stuff, was $62 million.

Now that's a bit unfair, because covid wrecked a lot of that. So let's look at the year before. Then it was a total of $206 million.

OK, so first question, which is larger, $309 million or $206 million?

Second question, if the salary cap is $208 million and you eliminated television revenue and so therefore only took in $206 million, would a team still be profitable?

Third question, are you going to admit that you got this completely wrong, or are you going to come up with some excuse as to how $206 million is greater than $309 million and how a team with revenues of $206 million could support a payroll of $208 million and be profitable?

Unless your their accountant I’m not sure you have a clue how the money is actually accounted for . Players can be deprecated and who knows what else they do with their numbers , but NFL franchises don’t lose money .

 

[TheSpecialSauce]

So it’s 10 million over 5 yrs it’s still 10 million . Why would he settle for less unless it’s in one bulk payment ?

Most coaching contacts state it is 75% of the base salary. There could be additional language pertaining to him looking for employment and that could impact the payment as well. No matter how you slice it Pitt does not have to come up with a massive chunk of money immediately to make a change.