Five Biggest Mistakes

[Fsgolfdr]

So this where you guys are off base .

First the Steelers owner and the Pirates owners are paid employees of their club . I couldn’t find any current data , but Dan Rooney in 2009 was paid 1.5 million to run the Steelers . Like I previously said unless your their accountant you have no clue to how profitable their businesses are .

More important to this discussion the Steelers and Pirates don’t have to support a volleyball, soccer, baseball , gymnastics, swimming , woman’s bb teams with their TV money . Money matters to Pitt athletics and Bb has been a huge negative with an empty Pete .

 

[New York Panther]

Gallagher not liking Dixon needs to be on the list somewhere.

Why didn't he like him?

 

[KennyTheKangaroo]

We are closing in on 6 years since JD was coach. Can we move on from the discussion

 

[Fsgolfdr]

We are closing in on 6 years since JD was coach. Can we move on from the discussion

“Those that don’t know history are doomed to repeat it .”

 

[KennyHeisman8]

Pitt football and basketball had pretty similar situations. Force out or fire a successful coach (stache and Dixon) followed by horrendous new hires. It took Pitt football 11 years to finally get back on track. Pitt basketball is in year six and isn’t even close to getting back on track.
But in reality Pitt football never fell to the depths of pitt basketball. 6-6 seasons under fraud and graham followed by 8 win seasons under Narduzzi is light years ahead of what pitt basketball has become.

Dixon and Wanny should not be mentioned in the same sentence.

 

[KennyHeisman8]

Smf proves time and again he has no understanding of money, accounting , or finances .
It’s almost fittapeldo like how consistently wrong his takes are

Fittapaldo is literally one of the most annoying people I've ever listened to on the radio, and has an absolutely massive ego for no reason.

 

[LeftCoastPanther]

Why didn't he like him?

Not sure, but it has been written on here Gallagher just didn’t.

 

[PittMan2003]

Dixon and Wanny should not be mentioned in the same sentence.

Meh. Different levels of success obviously. But both should not have been let go and the coaches hired afterwards were disasters.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Thank you for providing my point. Yes, the Steelers are profitable WITHOUT TV money. Their 2021 player payroll was $128 million

That is factually incorrect (I know, big shock there). That number only counts their active payroll, and it's their salary cap number and not the actual amount of money that they paid out over the course of the year. For instance TJ Watt counted as $8.1 million on the salary cap, but they actually paid him $36.6 million in cash.

If you count the actual amount of cash that they paid out during the year, for active players, injured players, practice squad, the whole nine yards, the Stillers paid out $182 million in salary to their players.

And since that number doesn't account for any other expenses for the team other than player salaries it's pretty obvious to anyone with a functioning brain that if you remove the television money they wouldn't have come anywhere close to breaking even, let alone making money.

So I guess the answer to my question is that you would again pretend that you know what you were talking about while showing your complete ignorance of the way things actually work. Not surprising.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Unless your their accountant I’m not sure you have a clue how the money is actually accounted for . Players can be deprecated and who knows what else they do with their numbers , but NFL franchises don’t lose money .

Who said they were losing money?

On the other hand, if you take away over $300 million of revenue of course they would be losing money. It's 60-ish percent of their revenue. In a league where the players are guaranteed 47% of all revenues.

 

[FireballZ]

All of this aside, we're probably a projected 4-seed if some guys could just get along. I wonder if Champagnie's girlfriend knows how much she decimated this program.

Are you saying if Champagnie returns? I don’t think they are a four seed even if does, no one transfers AND we get Burton and Gueye. Not sure we get either without the mass exodus.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

So this where you guys are off base .

First the Steelers owner and the Pirates owners are paid employees of their club . I couldn’t find any current data , but Dan Rooney in 2009 was paid 1.5 million to run the Steelers . Like I previously said unless your their accountant you have no clue to how profitable their businesses are .

What on earth does that have to do with what we are talking about?

The Stillers are profitable even with paying a bunch of Rooney family members a salary. If the Stillers had all their television money taken away they would not be profitable, even if they didn't pay any Rooney family members a salary. You don't have to be an accountant to understand that, you just have to have a modicum of common sense.

Which is why SMF is having such a hard time understanding it.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

That is factually incorrect (I know, big shock there). That number only counts their active payroll, and it's their salary cap number and not the actual amount of money that they paid out over the course of the year. For instance TJ Watt counted as $8.1 million on the salary cap, but they actually paid him $36.6 million in cash.

If you count the actual amount of cash that they paid out during the year, for active players, injured players, practice squad, the whole nine yards, the Stillers paid out $182 million in salary to their players.

And since that number doesn't account for any other expenses for the team other than player salaries it's pretty obvious to anyone with a functioning brain that if you remove the television money they wouldn't have come anywhere close to breaking even, let alone making money.

So I guess the answer to my question is that you would again pretend that you know what you were talking about while showing your complete ignorance of the way things actually work. Not surprising.

They don't pay enough janitors and secretaries to incur enough expenses to offset ticket sales, merch sales, licensing deals (like with stuff like video games), etc.

Profitable without TV revenue like I said.

And lost in all this is the larger point that Pitt has probably only made about $1 million in revenue in 2 years and had, what $10 million in expenses? In the Glory Days era, we had to be making $20 million without TV in a 2 year period and had probably $10 million in expenses or so.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

They don't pay enough janitors and secretaries to incur enough expenses to offset ticket sales, merch sales, licensing deals (like with stuff like video games), etc.

Profitable without TV revenue like I said.

What are you talking about? Without television revenue basically every single dollar that they bring in goes out the door to the players. You'd have no money left over for any front office salaries. No money left over for all the expenses they incur during the season, like all the costs associated with traveling to games or running their facility all year long, or the cost to run a training camp for 100 players, or scouting players, or anything else like that.

You simply have to be trolling at this point, because I don't think it's possible for you to be stupid enough to believe what you are posting. Either that or you are so insecure in yourself that you just can't bring yourself to admit that you are obviously wrong about this.

 

[Franb]

They don't pay enough janitors and secretaries to incur enough expenses to offset ticket sales, merch sales, licensing deals (like with stuff like video games), etc.

Profitable without TV revenue like I said.

And lost in all this is the larger point that Pitt has probably only made about $1 million in revenue in 2 years and had, what $10 million in expenses? In the Glory Days era, we had to be making $20 million without TV in a 2 year period and had probably $10 million in expenses or so.

If Pitt sold 10,000 season tickets, at an average of $500 each, they pull in $5 million. Per year. I don't know what their average was during that time, but $500 is generous. As for expenses, Dixon was making over $3 million himself, so your $5 million is very low. No way they made money without tv.

 

[King Of All Message Boards]

What are you talking about? Without television revenue basically every single dollar that they bring in goes out the door to the players. You'd have no money left over for any front office salaries. No money left over for all the expenses they incur during the season, like all the costs associated with traveling to games or running their facility all year long, or the cost to run a training camp for 100 players, or scouting players, or anything else like that.

You simply have to be trolling at this point, because I don't think it's possible for you to be stupid enough to believe what you are posting. Either that or you are so insecure in yourself that you just can't bring yourself to admit that you are obviously wrong about this.

Upon further thought are your sure there wasn’t some other formula in accounting 101 (like the first day) other than revenue - expenses = profit? Like a qualifier of some sort depending on where the revenue came from? Was that maybe in business accounting? I hated accounting so I can’t really remember.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Upon further thought are your sure there wasn’t some other formula in accounting 101 (like the first day) other than revenue - expenses = profit? Like a qualifier of some sort depending on where the revenue came from? Was that maybe in business accounting? I hated accounting so I can’t really remember.

I am not an accountant, so it is possible that a dollar from a television network is not worth as much as a dollar from a ticket sale or a sponsorship deal.

Maybe the television networks pay in Canadian dollars. That would explain the difference!

 

[PittPharm2002]

They don't pay enough janitors and secretaries to incur enough expenses to offset ticket sales, merch sales, licensing deals (like with stuff like video games), etc.

Profitable without TV revenue like I said.

And lost in all this is the larger point that Pitt has probably only made about $1 million in revenue in 2 years and had, what $10 million in expenses? In the Glory Days era, we had to be making $20 million without TV in a 2 year period and had probably $10 million in expenses or so.

You’re flat wrong
Stop

 

[Fsgolfdr]

What on earth does that have to do with what we are talking about?

The Stillers are profitable even with paying a bunch of Rooney family members a salary. If the Stillers had all their television money taken away they would not be profitable, even if they didn't pay any Rooney family members a salary. You don't have to be an accountant to understand that, you just have to have a modicum of common sense.

Which is why SMF is having such a hard time understanding it.

The bulk of ACC money is because of football not bb , but the point is that Pitt relies on the revenue sports ( Fb and bb ) to support their other programs . (The Steelers don’t . ) Thinking that the bb program is pulling its weight with 1500 paying customers one just needs a modicum of common sense to know that that’s not the case .

Adding 2 million per yr for 5 yrs of dead money isn’t what the athletic department needs . The lack of support of the bb program has to be putting a strain on the athletic department the last 5 yrs .

If Pitt had an endless stream of money Hurley would’ve been the coach , moneys matters .

 

[pittzip]

Sean Miller not convinced he knows much besides typing on a keyboard.

 

[NTOP]

Tiresome agent talk posturing for raises every year?

That ended with the big contract. Barnes probably was jealous.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

If Pitt sold 10,000 season tickets, at an average of $500 each, they pull in $5 million. Per year. I don't know what their average was during that time, but $500 is generous. As for expenses, Dixon was making over $3 million himself, so your $5 million is very low. No way they made money without tv.

Courtside seats, luxury boxes, sponsorships, concessions. They were way over $5 million. Plus, Dixon wasn't making close to $3 million until his later "Dixon II years" and I'm talking about the Glory Days era.

Again though, we are talking about a basketball program which has made approximately $1 million in revenue over a 10 year period as compared to $10-$15 million in revenue in a 2 year period during the Glory Days era. Pitt basketball has no money. And these guys think we can pay someone 8 figures to not coach to hire the next Kevin Keatts or Tim Welsh or Louis Orr or Danny Manning or John Groce. Or they are counting on Capel being super nice and telling Pitt, "that's ok, you don't have to pay me exactly what my contract states because I like you."

In the history of college basketball, I would be surprised if there was EVER a basketball coach fired without cause (or scandal) by the AD who hired him, who had at least 5 years left on his contract. Honestly, I'm not sure that's ever happened. So that's your homework assignment for today. Heather is in "worst mistake in AD history" territory. She really really needs this to work somehow.

Pitt is in rare air here. We followed up the worst coaching hire in P6 history with potentially the first P6 coach to be fired by the AD who hired him with 5 years left on his contract. What is the point of having an AD? There are plenty of middle school students who can do as good of a job for volunteer credit.

 

[PittPharm2002]

Courtside seats, luxury boxes, sponsorships, concessions. They were way over $5 million. Plus, Dixon wasn't making close to $3 million until his later "Dixon II years" and I'm talking about the Glory Days era.

Again though, we are talking about a basketball program which has made approximately $1 million in revenue over a 10 year period as compared to $10-$15 million in revenue in a 2 year period during the Glory Days era. Pitt basketball has no money. And these guys think we can pay someone 8 figures to not coach to hire the next Kevin Keatts or Tim Welsh or Louis Orr or Danny Manning or John Groce. Or they are counting on Capel being super nice and telling Pitt, "that's ok, you don't have to pay me exactly what my contract states because I like you."

In the history of college basketball, I would be surprised if there was EVER a basketball coach fired without cause (or scandal) by the coach who hired him, who had at least 5 years left on his contract. Honestly, I'm not sure that's ever happened. So that's your homework assignment for today. Heather is in "worst mistake in AD history" territory. She really really needs this to work somehow.

Stop talking , stupid

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Stop talking , stupid

Your classic comeback when you know I'm right.

 

[PittPharm2002]

Your classic comeback when you know I'm right.

It’s my classic reply when you’ve been proven wrong a dozen times , yet you continue to argue the same stupid thing

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

It’s my classic reply when you’ve been proven wrong a dozen times , yet you continue to argue the same stupid thing

No it isn't. You aren't intelligent enough to debate like Joe. He, at least is capable of composing an argument. You just "like" his posts are add 3 or 4 words to it or when you can't even think of those 3 or 4 words, you will add something very inciteful and creative like "shut up" or "stop talking."

 

[JD1976]

If Pitt sold 10,000 season tickets, at an average of $500 each, they pull in $5 million. Per year. I don't know what their average was during that time, but $500 is generous. As for expenses, Dixon was making over $3 million himself, so your $5 million is very low. No way they made money without tv.

Pitt outsources its ticket sales so they are paid a guarantee, but they likely are also paying a commission based on various benchmarks. Also, the actual cost of printing tickets, box office staff and other amenities eat further into whatever the gross ticketing revenue figure is.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Pitt outsources its ticket sales so they are paid a guarantee, but they likely are also paying a commission based on various benchmarks. Also, the actual cost of printing tickets, box office staff and other amenities eat further into whatever the gross ticketing revenue figure is.

Cool. The cost of printing tickets and paying a work-study to answer the phones and for Paciolan to run their ticketing website is next to nothing. Plus, the Paciolan payment likely wouldn't come specifically out of the basketball budget anyway since they use it for all sports. If it did, football would take the biggest hit and basketball would barely pay anything since at that time, most season tickets were renewed by the mailer and few single game website tickets were ever sold

 

[JD1976]

Cool. The cost of printing tickets and paying a work-study to answer the phones and for Paciolan to run their ticketing website is next to nothing. Plus, the Paciolan payment likely wouldn't come specifically out of the basketball budget anyway since they use it for all sports. If it did, football would take the biggest hit and basketball would barely pay anything since at that time, most season tickets were renewed by the mailer and few single game website tickets were ever sold

I’m just reminding everyone that $5 million in ticket revenue isn’t $5 million net.

 

[PittPharm2002]

I’m just reminding everyone that $5 million in ticket revenue isn’t $5 million net.

It’s no use
Smf thinks pitt was profitable without tv even during our peak.
He’s wrong

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

It’s no use
Smf thinks pitt was profitable without tv even during our peak.
He’s wrong

OK, PharmaBro, I dare you to estimate Pitt expenses when Pitt was paying Dixon $2 million per year and his assistants about $17. Hint: their expenses did not exceed non-TV revenues. If you remember, at that time Pitt basketball made those Top 25 profitable ranking lists even though the Big East TV contract was putrid.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

You aren't intelligent enough to debate like Joe.

To be fair though, you aren't intelligent enough to debate like Joe either. Joe deals in facts. You just make stuff up, and when someone shows you the facts you pretend that they don't exist and go right on your merry way making stuff up.

 

[PittPharm2002]

OK, PharmaBro, I dare you to estimate Pitt expenses when Pitt was paying Dixon $2 million per year and his assistants about $17. Hint: their expenses did not exceed non-TV revenues. If you remember, at that time Pitt basketball made those Top 25 profitable ranking lists even though the Big East TV contract was putrid.

I don’t have to estimate -
I can tell you how much expenses men basketball had in every year from 2003-2019.
As it’s public info for those willing to loo it up
In 2003 expenses were $3.25 mil
In Dixon’s last season 2015 expenses were $8.8mil
And in between the trend steadily increased with 2013 being the highest at $9.565mil

because you seem to have forgotten one of the largest expenses beyond coaching salaries -
The costs of the scholarships, room and board .
*bump*

 

[JD1976]

I don’t have to estimate -
I can tell you how much expenses men basketball had in every year from 2003-2019.
As it’s public info for those willing to loo it up
In 2003 expenses were $3.25 mil
In Dixon’s last season 2015 expenses were $8.8mil
And in between the trend steadily increased with 2013 being the highest at $9.565mil

because you seem to have forgotten one of the largest expenses beyond coaching salaries -
The costs of the scholarships, room and board .

Good point on the cost of scholarships. Most schools have those endowed, and my guess would be Pitt’s basketball scholarships are all endowed, but it is still a direct cost to the program’s budget.

Now, I can already see the future and SMF will be coming along soon to chalk that expense up to an accounting trick 😂