Mid-major expansion stuff
- Thread starter Sean Miller Fan
- Start date
Its a much higher level. The Big South funds all scholarships for football while the NEC only funds maybe 60%-70%. Although, isnt RMU funding all scholarships now anyway?
The exodus from the MEAC continues: Hampton (to Big South) and Savannah St (back to D2) a few years ago. NC A&T next year and now Florida A&M and Bethune-Cookman are leaving for the SWAC meaning. The SWAC (whose name is geographically incorrect) will have 12 teams and the MEAC only 8 which if I'm a MEAC school I love.
- Also NJIT is leaving the Atlantic Sun for the America East. They badly wanted in the NEC about a decade ago and the NEC didn't want them and now they land in a better league. Go figure.
- Also NJIT is leaving the Atlantic Sun for the America East. They badly wanted in the NEC about a decade ago and the NEC didn't want them and now they land in a better league. Go figure.
Are we sure he isn’t talking about Houston Baptist? Never heard of cal either.
Cal Baptist and Grand Canyon are taking similar paths
The high-scoring Feb. 8 matchup pitted two of the newest D1 programs against each other — and both are more similar than one would expect.
www.midmajormadness.com
Can you honestly say you dont care about the balance of power in HBCU D1 basketball shifting to the SWAC? What's going on in the MEAC? Will it become the next WAC? Might they have to take on non-HBCU schools to survive? Who will Pitt schedule in Nov/Dec if the MEAC fades away?
Pretty surprising mid-major expansion news:
The WAC, which has barely been surviving, is adding 5 pretty strong mid-major programs.
From the Southland:
- Stephen F. Austin
- Sam Houston State
- Lamar
- Abilene Christian
From the Big Sky:
- Southern Utah State
On the surface, this doesn't make a ton of sense because the SL is one of the better mid-major basketball leagues so why would some of their best teams leave for a league struggling to survive like the WAC? Its also one of the best FCS football leagues and the WAC doesn't even have football. OK, so I thought maybe those 5 would be joining NM State in a new WAC FBS football league. That makes some sense but I think the WAC plans on playing FCS football so their football league would be those 5 plus Tarleton State and Dixie State. NM State has no plans on dropping down for football.
This gives the WAC 14 for basketball and it becomes very Texas centric:
- 6 schools are in Texas (UTRGV, Tarleton St, SFA, SHSU, Lamar, ACU) plus NM State which is right outside El Paso.
- 3 in Utah (SUSU, Dixie State, Utah Valley)
- 4 outliers: Seattle, Grand Canyon (Phoenix), Cal Baptist, and Chicago State (Im going to guess they get kicked out).
- For old-time's sake, I'd like to see SFA, SHSU, Lamar, ACU, SUSU, Tarleton, and Dixie St join NM St in an FBS WAC league.
The WAC, which has barely been surviving, is adding 5 pretty strong mid-major programs.
From the Southland:
- Stephen F. Austin
- Sam Houston State
- Lamar
- Abilene Christian
From the Big Sky:
- Southern Utah State
On the surface, this doesn't make a ton of sense because the SL is one of the better mid-major basketball leagues so why would some of their best teams leave for a league struggling to survive like the WAC? Its also one of the best FCS football leagues and the WAC doesn't even have football. OK, so I thought maybe those 5 would be joining NM State in a new WAC FBS football league. That makes some sense but I think the WAC plans on playing FCS football so their football league would be those 5 plus Tarleton State and Dixie State. NM State has no plans on dropping down for football.
This gives the WAC 14 for basketball and it becomes very Texas centric:
- 6 schools are in Texas (UTRGV, Tarleton St, SFA, SHSU, Lamar, ACU) plus NM State which is right outside El Paso.
- 3 in Utah (SUSU, Dixie State, Utah Valley)
- 4 outliers: Seattle, Grand Canyon (Phoenix), Cal Baptist, and Chicago State (Im going to guess they get kicked out).
- For old-time's sake, I'd like to see SFA, SHSU, Lamar, ACU, SUSU, Tarleton, and Dixie St join NM St in an FBS WAC league.
You really like to pump the Southland, but it isn't actually all that good.
This year so far it is ranked as the 30th best conference by Pomeroy. Out of 32. The WAC is 27, so not much better. Last year the Southland ranked 28th, the WAC 24. The year before it was 29, the WAC was 17. The year before it was 28, the WAC was 18. The year before it was 27, the WAC was 17. Do I need to keep doing this?
Those schools are leaving the Southland because not only is the Southland NOT one of the better mid-major basketball leagues, it is perennially one of the worst. They have SEVEN teams this year ranked worse than 300 in the country (and another in the 290s). It's pretty obvious that what is going on here is that schools like SFA are trying to get away from schools like McNeese and Houston Baptist. Mission accomplished.
From the little info I have found on this, it seems that the 3 East Texas schools, all within a 2 hour bus trip plus Abilene Christian have bigger athletics budgets and may be unhappy with the commitment that the Louisiana schools plus smaller Texas schools like Incarnate Word and Houston Baptist are making. Those 4 schools habe won 8 of the last 11 SLC tournaments. So I guess there may be a thought that those 4 + NM St and Grand Canyon gives them a better basketball league. But the football league would be much worse and FCS football is pretty big down there. Which is why I thought these teams planned on forming an FBS WAC but I guess not.
The best schools in the Southland (for the most part) are moving to a conference that is already better than the Southland, and you "guess there may be a thought" that the basketball league is going to be better?
You guess?
NM St and GCU are good programs. After that, the WAC is awful. The SLC is deeper at the top and middle but horrible from the middle down which brings everyone down.
There are 13 teams in the Southland so the 7th best team is the middle of the league. By Pomeroy rating that would be Lamar, who is 304. There are 9 teams in the WAC so the 5th best team is the middle of the league. By Pomeroy rating that would be Utah Valley, who is 282.
If that's too narrow a definition of the middle, the middle three of Southland are Northwestern State (292), Lamar (304) and Texas A&M Corpus Christi (309). The middle three of the WAC are Cal Baptist (273), Utah Valley (282) and Seattle (283).
One of those is clearly better than the other. Oddly enough, it isn't the one that you seem to think it would be. Imagine that.
Last year the middle team in the Southland was McNeese at 276. The middle team in the WAC was Rio Grande Valley at 249. The year before in the Southland it was A&M Corpus Chrsti at 287, for the WAC it was Seattle at 190. The year before that in the Southland it was Abilene Christian at 262, the WAC had eight teams that year, number four was Seattle at 195 and number five was Cal Bakersfield at 242. The year before for the Southland it was Sam Houston State at 234, for the WAC it was Grand Canyon in 4th at 152 and UMKC in 5th at 219.
Do you want me to keep going? Because I can. When the facts are on your side this is easy. The notion that the middle of the Southland is and has been better than the middle of the WAC is, well, wacky.
Yes, I want you to keep going. I don't believe these numbers anyway. What computer tabulated them? The whole things seems rigged.
It is rigged. They rigged it so the better teams have the higher rankings and the worse teams have lower ones.
How dare they!
How can you trust the computers used to tabulate these rankings? Has anyone inspected them? They could have been programmed to make the WAC look better and the SLC look worse. We need an investigation.
Its very likely these rankings were rigged to make the WAC look like the better conference so they can raid the Southland. My eyes and my vast knowledge of college basketball tell me that the SLC is better. We cant trust the computers. Were any SLC representatives watching the computers when the results were tabulated?
We should convene at the Four Seasons (dry cleaners) in Squirrel Hill at once.
As a Kansas City resident, my dream mid-major regional conference would consist of:
- Creighton
- Drake
- MO State
- Northern Iowa
- Omaha
- Oral Roberts
- Saint Louis
- SE MO State
- UMKC
- Wichita State
I know this would never happen, for obvious reasons, but it’d be a fun mid-major conference with a lot of regional and historic rivals.
- Creighton
- Drake
- MO State
- Northern Iowa
- Omaha
- Oral Roberts
- Saint Louis
- SE MO State
- UMKC
- Wichita State
I know this would never happen, for obvious reasons, but it’d be a fun mid-major conference with a lot of regional and historic rivals.
I confess to not knowing much about the inner workings of the Southland, but the WAC has literally been about to close its doors multiple times over the last 2 decades. Poaching these teams would give them some semblance of stability at least temporarily.
The fact that Chicago State, Seattle and UT-Rio Grande Valley are in that conference together tells you all you need to know about the thin ice it has been on for quite some time.
I remember back in the 80s how innovative and fun WAC football was to watch.
Would be awesome to have another conference tournament in Kansas City. If you ever get the chance, the Big XII Tournament is a good one to attend. It’s not the Garden, but it’s a lot of fun.
Which is why its so surprising some of the best programs in the Southland would leave to join.
Besides NM State, UTRGV, and Chicago State (which is more like a D3 program), all other teams moved up from D2 fairly recently. Its not a league with any stability. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if UTRGV left for the Southland.
As expected, Chicago State is leaving the new WAC. I dont know why they'd want to continue to play D1 sports as they spend almost no money on them but if they do, I'd think the MEAC would be as good on option as any. The Summit League already kicked them out once so I cant see them taking them back. The MEAC is down to 9 schools and although Chicago State isnt an HBCU, historically its students are predominantly African-American. Given their low/no-budget, they could be semi-competitive in what is perhaps the worst D1 league.
The Atlantic Sun is adding Eastern Kentucky and Jacksonville State from the OVC and Central Arkansas from the Southland. They plan on adding 1 more to field a 6 team football conference with those 3 and current members North Alabama and Kennesaw State who play football only in the Big South.
This is a blow to RMU football as they now play in the Big South. That football league will be down to 6.
RMU
Monmouth
Hampton
NC A&T
Campbell
Charleston Southern
Presbyterian is dropping scholarships and moving to the football-only Pioneer League. I always wonder if Cal or IUP would consider moving up. Both have arenas which would rank near the top of the D1 mid-major ranks.
The Southland is in serious trouble as they're down to 8 and the minimum of 6 for football.
This is a blow to RMU football as they now play in the Big South. That football league will be down to 6.
RMU
Monmouth
Hampton
NC A&T
Campbell
Charleston Southern
Presbyterian is dropping scholarships and moving to the football-only Pioneer League. I always wonder if Cal or IUP would consider moving up. Both have arenas which would rank near the top of the D1 mid-major ranks.
The Southland is in serious trouble as they're down to 8 and the minimum of 6 for football.
OVC loses 2 more. Belmont goes to the Missouri Valley and Austin Peay to the A-Sun. OVC is down to 6 for football and 8 for hoops. A-Sun up to 6 for football and 13 for hoops. It sounds like the A-Sun's plan is to grow to 16 for basketball then "split" (in name only) into 2 different "conferences" so they can get 2 auto bids, which is pretty smart.
With the American adding 6 CUSA schools (UTSA, UNT, Rice, Charlotte, FAU, UAB) which is a major blow to their basketball league, I wonder if Memphis, Temple, and Wichita State will leave and join the A10 and maybe make their own football-only league
Memphis
Temple
UConn
UMass
Liberty
NM State
Army
Memphis
Temple
UConn
UMass
Liberty
NM State
Army
Memphis will hold out for a B12 invite for as long as it takes. It’s absolutely vital to them that Penny’s model works and keeps them relevant, otherwise they’re in some trouble even with all that FedEx money behind them.
As a basketball conference, the AAC is all but done which is disappointing as it really did have some strong teams/moments. You just can’t have a league where the only goal for 2/3 of the members is to get out and hope to have any type of lasting success.
I don't see how Memphis staying in the American helps their Big 12 chances any. Lets say this is their football division
Tulsa
Tulane
Rice
UTSA
SMU
North Texas
Does that + a horrific basketball conference help them get in the Big 12 over A10 hoops + a hypothetical A10 Football Conference considering of them, UMass, Temple, UConn, Army, and others? They'd also have more flexibility to schedule good OOC games. Like a quasi-independent.
Honestly, the Mountain West should go get Memphis, SMU, Gonzaga, and Wichita State. That would be a dynamite basketball league. Probably better than the ACC as bad as the ACC has been.
The MW grabbing those schools would be good competitively but, in the end, it wouldn’t change much as the top schools would still be looking to bolt for a P5 conference at the first chance. Memphis/SMU/Boise are going to be sweating out the B12’s next move. It’s not as vital for Boise, but Memphis and SMU have to get out of the AAC relatively quickly otherwise they’re in trouble.
Temple absolutely should be looking into getting out and back to the A10, which is a shame as their football program has been respectable for the most part unlike what Connecticut experienced. There’s just not a lot of options for these north east schools still trying to play football outside of the P5.
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