FS2 and random mid-major expansion stuff

[Sean Miller Fan]

The MW grabbing those schools would be good competitively but, in the end, it wouldn’t change much as the top schools would still be looking to bolt for a P5 conference at the first chance. Memphis/SMU/Boise are going to be sweating out the B12’s next move. It’s not as vital for Boise, but Memphis and SMU have to get out of the AAC relatively quickly otherwise they’re in trouble.

Temple absolutely should be looking into getting out and back to the A10, which is a shame as their football program has been respectable for the most part unlike what Connecticut experienced. There’s just not a lot of options for these north east schools still trying to play football outside of the P5.

If I am Temple and UMass, I'm trying to talk Richmond and Rhode Island into upgrading to FBS to start an A10 football league with UConn, Memphis, and Army. It would be light years better for Memphis hoops considering what garbage the new AAC is.

Hypothetically, an MWC basketball league which includes Gonzaga, Memphis, Wichita, SMU, San Diego St, UNLV, and New Mexico is only below the Big Ten and SEC. Its better than the Pac 12 and depending on the year, could be better than the ACC and new Big 12

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

- Murray State and Belmont from OVC to Missouri Valley to replace Loyola. Will probably add 1 more: UT-Arlington, UMKC, or Illinois-Chicago. 3 fantastic markets where those teams are invisible.

- OVC backfills with Arkansas-Little Rock, who was getting kicked out of the Sun Belt.

- Southland exodus continues as Incarnate Word will join WAC. The Southland sold out to keep McNeese State from following. Conference tournaments will be hosted by McNeese. WAC will eventually have 9 football schools (6 in TX, 3 in Utah) plus 3 non-football (Seattle, GCU, Cal Baptist). With BYU leaving the WCC, I wonder if they'd finally consider Seattle, which is a perfect fit with other city schools: San Diego, San Francisco, and Portland.

 

[HOF Coach]

- Murray State and Belmont from OVC to Missouri Valley to replace Loyola. Will probably add 1 more: UT-Arlington, UMKC, or Illinois-Chicago. 3 fantastic markets where those teams are invisible.

- OVC backfills with Arkansas-Little Rock, who was getting kicked out of the Sun Belt.

- Southland exodus continues as Incarnate Word will join WAC. The Southland sold out to keep McNeese State from following. Conference tournaments will be hosted by McNeese. WAC will eventually have 9 football schools (6 in TX, 3 in Utah) plus 3 non-football (Seattle, GCU, Cal Baptist). With BYU leaving the WCC, I wonder if they'd finally consider Seattle, which is a perfect fit with other city schools: San Diego, San Francisco, and Portland.

 

[HailToPitt725]

- Murray State and Belmont from OVC to Missouri Valley to replace Loyola. Will probably add 1 more: UT-Arlington, UMKC, or Illinois-Chicago. 3 fantastic markets where those teams are invisible.

- OVC backfills with Arkansas-Little Rock, who was getting kicked out of the Sun Belt.

- Southland exodus continues as Incarnate Word will join WAC. The Southland sold out to keep McNeese State from following. Conference tournaments will be hosted by McNeese. WAC will eventually have 9 football schools (6 in TX, 3 in Utah) plus 3 non-football (Seattle, GCU, Cal Baptist). With BYU leaving the WCC, I wonder if they'd finally consider Seattle, which is a perfect fit with other city schools: San Diego, San Francisco, and Portland.

UIC will be the second school selected by MVC (not official, just the “word on the street”) and UT-Arlington is headed to the WAC.

Funny enough, Kansas City is actually looking into starting a hockey program. Staying in the Summit League would be a good fit for them in that case (Denver, N. Dakota, Omaha, and St. Thomas already have programs).

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

UIC will be the second school selected by MVC (not official, just the “word on the street”) and UT-Arlington is headed to the WAC.

Funny enough, Kansas City is actually looking into starting a hockey program. Staying in the Summit League would be a good fit for them in that case (Denver, N. Dakota, Omaha, and St. Thomas already have programs).

I would go with UMKC if they're able to increase their budget to MVC levels. Its a natural fit geographically and seems like it would have a ton of potential to build a fanbase in basketball-crazed KC since there's no NBA or D1 teams in the city. With UIC, they compete with the Bulls and D1 programs in the B10, Big East, and A10.

 

[HailToPitt725]

I would go with UMKC if they're able to increase their budget to MVC levels. Its a natural fit geographically and seems like it would have a ton of potential to build a fanbase in basketball-crazed KC since there's no NBA or D1 teams in the city. With UIC, they compete with the Bulls and D1 programs in the B10, Big East, and A10.

I agree to a certain extent. The problem for UMKC is that most casual basketball fans in the city already have allegiances to Kansas, K-State, Mizzou, etc. It’s a basketball town but more specifically a college basketball town.

I definitely think the program has potential as someone who lives in KC, but they may also have a shorter ceiling because of this.

Regardless, from what I heard they almost got in because many of the university presidents want to expand their undergrad recruiting in the KC area. Lots of moving variables when it comes to mid-major realignment.

 

[DT_PITT]

Picture = 1,000 words

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

I agree to a certain extent. The problem for UMKC is that most casual basketball fans in the city already have allegiances to Kansas, K-State, Mizzou, etc. It’s a basketball town but more specifically a college basketball town.

I definitely think the program has potential as someone who lives in KC, but they may also have a shorter ceiling because of this.

Regardless, from what I heard they almost got in regardless because many of the university presidents want to expand their undergrad recruiting in the KC area. Lots of moving variables when it comes to mid-major realignment.

Yea, I mean I realize that KC is a KU, KST, Mizzou town BUT there's no NBA team and those teams are 45 minutes and 2 hours from KC. I would guess KC is the largest city in the US without an NBA team or Top 10 Conference D1 team so I have to think UMKC could carve out a little niche in one of the best college hoops markets in the US.

 

[HailToPitt725]

Yea, I mean I realize that KC is a KU, KST, Mizzou town BUT there's no NBA team and those teams are 45 minutes and 2 hours from KC. I would guess KC is the largest city in the US without an NBA team or Top 10 Conference D1 team so I have to think UMKC could carve out a little niche in one of the best college hoops markets in the US.

Honestly, I hope they do. They’re currently in the Summit League and play their games in a student recreation center. There’s no reason why they can’t play downtown at the T-Mobile Center or Municipal Auditorium, get one of the big regional P5 schools to play here once a year, and sell recruits on playing a few games on national television. It’d be a lot of fun to have some good college hoops in town.

There’s also so much high school talent in the Kansas City every year; all they need to do is land one of them every two years or so and they would have one of the most talented teams in their league.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Honestly, I hope they do. They’re currently in the Summit League and play their games in a student recreation center. There’s no reason why they can’t play downtown at the T-Mobile Center or Municipal Auditorium, get one of the big regional P5 schools to play here once a year, and sell recruits on playing a few games on national television. It’d be a lot of fun to have some good college hoops in town.

There’s also so much high school talent in the Kansas City every year; all they need to do is land one of them every two years or so and they would have one of the most talented teams in their league.

Part of their admission would be that they have to play at Municipal Auditorium. You know way more about KC hoops than me but if they can get their budget increased, it seems like a no-brainer for the MVC to have a team in KC. Games vs good programs like Northern Iowa, Southern Illinois, Missouri State, Valpo, etc could bring out local KC hoops fans.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Part of their admission would be that they have to play at Municipal Auditorium. You know way more about KC hoops than me but if they can get their budget increased, it seems like a no-brainer for the MVC to have a team in KC. Games vs good programs like Northern Iowa, Southern Illinois, Missouri State, Valpo, etc could bring out local KC hoops fans.

Texas-Arlington from Sun Belt to WAC
Illinois-Chicago from Horizon to MVC

Who will the Horizon backfill with? This will be interesting since its RMU's league. No obvious choices but maybe they just stay at 11.

The new WAC is basically the old Southland as UTA is another former Southland member. I didn't understand what the MVC saw in UTA. Yea, great market, but they probably don't even have 500 fans total and very little hope of creating a fanbase that includes 4 major pro sports teams + TCU, SMU, and huge fanbases of UT, OU, and A&M.

 

[HailToPitt725]

Texas-Arlington from Sun Belt to WAC
Illinois-Chicago from Horizon to MVC

Who will the Horizon backfill with? This will be interesting since its RMU's league. No obvious choices but maybe they just stay at 11.

The new WAC is basically the old Southland as UTA is another former Southland member. I didn't understand what the MVC saw in UTA. Yea, great market, but they probably don't even have 500 fans total and very little hope of creating a fanbase that includes 4 major pro sports teams + TCU, SMU, and huge fanbases of UT, OU, and A&M.

Since TV contracts aren’t really a thing with the mid-majors, I bet it came from the university presidents wanting to align their institutions with UT and recruit more students from Texas. Same reason why Drake was pushing for UM-Kansas City to join, albeit to no avail.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

To make-up for losing James Madison, the CAA adds Hampton from the Big South, Stony Brook from the America East, and Monmouth from the MAAC.

This leaves Big South Football (where RMU plays football) with 5, 1 less than thr required minimum so they'll have to add someone.

The America East is down to the minimum basketball requirement of 8.

The MAAC is still good with 10 but I wonder if they come after RMU and I wonder if RMU feels they fit better in a NE league of small, private schools. The Horizon has been a disaster.

At some point, I feel all these moves have to trickle down to IUP or Pennsylvania Western-California. I don't know why you build D1 arenas if you dont think about going D1 at some point. The Big South may be desperate.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

The Ohio Valley is going the way of the Southland. Tennessee State appears to be leaving for the SWAC. The OVC is adding Southern Indiana and Lindenwood from D2.

The CAA is adding North Carolina A&T from the Big South.

The Big South and OVC are forming a joint football league to compensate

RMU
Campbell
Charleston Southern
Gardner-Webb
Tennessee Tech
Tennesse-Martin
Eastern Illinois
SE Missouri State
Southern Indiana
Lindenwood

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

- Lamar going back to the Southland after 1 year in the WAC. Good move I think. Pointless to be flying into California and Utah.

- Bryant leaving the NEC and joining the America East

- NEC backfilling with Stonehill College

- CAA adds Howard. 3 HBCU's now in CAA with NC A&T and Hampton

 

[DT_PITT]

- Lamar going back to the Southland after 1 year in the WAC. Good move I think. Pointless to be flying into California and Utah.

- Bryant leaving the NEC and joining the America East

- NEC backfilling with Stonehill College

- CAA adds Howard. 3 HBCU's now in CAA with NC A&T and Hampton

Thanks … I think

 

[TempleBAPittMPA]

- CAA adds Howard. 3 HBCU's now in CAA with NC A&T and Hampton

MEAC folds its tent? Actually a sad day.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

MEAC folds its tent? Actually a sad day.

No. I still think they add Chicago State. I don't know where else Chicago State could go besides D3. There's also a ton of schools in the CIAA that they'd like to add but most of those schools don't want to move up. Virginia State has a beautiful arena and were considering the MEAC. Kentucky State as well.

 

[TempleBAPittMPA]

No. I still think they add Chicago State. I don't know where else Chicago State could go besides D3. There's also a ton of schools in the CIAA that they'd like to add but most of those schools don't want to move up. Virginia State has a beautiful arena and were considering the MEAC. Kentucky State as well.

That would require those CIAA schools to move up from Division II, which is a heck of a financial commitment.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

That would require those CIAA schools to move up from Division II, which is a heck of a financial commitment.

Right and most don't want to. Hard to imagine Virginia State doesn't move up though. Not sure why you'd build this arena if you weren't considering D1 at some point

VSU Multipurpose Center

Colleges and universities across the country do more than educate the students enrolled in their degree programs — they create connections between people from different backgrounds and cultural experiences, providing vast opportunities for personal growth. Through these connections, our institutions…

www.clarknexsen.com

 

[JD1976]

Mount Saint Mary’s leaving NEC for the MAAC

D2 Queens likely headed to Atlantic Sun per reports.

 

[TempleBAPittMPA]

Hard to imagine Virginia State doesn't move up though. Not sure why you'd build this arena if you weren't considering D1 at some point

Seriously?

The venue has a seating capacity of 5,100 to 6,100

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Mount Saint Mary’s leaving NEC for the MAAC

D2 Queens likely headed to Atlantic Sun per reports.

I saw that the MAAC was looking at MSM and I wondered if RMU would consider that league. They've had a tough go in the Horizon and though geographically they fit better in the Horizon, school and facilities wise, they probably fit better in the MAAC

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Seriously?

The venue has a seating capacity of 5,100 to 6,100

Well, its an "arena" and not a "gym" and you dont see that a lot in D2 other than Cal, IUP, and some others. It would be by far the best arena in the MEAC

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Haven't done this in awhile, my apolgies:

Kennesaw State to CUSA (and D1 football)

Chicago State to Independent (not sure why they insist on having D1 sports. MEAC said no)

Howard staying in MEAC after announcing move to CAA

Mount St. Mary's to MAAC from NEC

Monmouth to CAA from MAAC

Texas A&M-Commerce to Southland from D2

Houston Baptist is now Houston Christian

Valparaiso Crusaders are now Valparaiso Beacons

IUPUI will become IU-Indianapolis with the Indiana/Purdue divorce.

 

[BFo8]

Haven't done this in awhile, my apolgies:

Kennesaw State to CUSA (and D1 football)

Chicago State to Independent (not sure why they insist on having D1 sports. MEAC said no)

Howard staying in MEAC after announcing move to CAA

Mount St. Mary's to MAAC from NEC

Monmouth to CAA from MAAC

Texas A&M-Commerce to Southland from D2

Houston Baptist is now Houston Christian

Valparaiso Crusaders are now Valparaiso Beacons

IUPUI will become IU-Indianapolis with the Indiana/Purdue divorce.

Couple comments on these:

Chicago St is 4-17 with the interesting dichotomy of being a perfect 4-0 at home while putting up an 0-17 record on the road. With some really bad teams left on the schedule they have a legitimate chance to win 7-8 games, which is a nice season for them.

Remember when King Rice was a hot candidate for a major job? Talk about a case of having should’ve struck while the iron was hot, Monmouth is a combined 77-92 over the past 6 seasons which includes an amazing 1-17 this year in their CAA debut. He is much more likely to be fired than to be considered for any type of promotion.

Not sure if Valpo’s demise is more of a result of their move from the Horizon to the MVC or the coaching change from Bryce Drew to Matt Lottich, as they both happened right around the same time. Either way they have gone from a strong mid major for many years to a below average program.

 

[JimPL]

The MAC has their eyes on Western Kentucky and Middle Tennessee. One is north of Nashville and the other is south of Nashville.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

The MAC has their eyes on Western Kentucky and Middle Tennessee. One is north of Nashville and the other is south of Nashville.

They offered them last year or so and both turned them down. I haven't heard if they are reconsidering. I think they'd be stupid to go to a Rust Belt League. CUSA stinks but I'd rather be playing in Florida, Georgia, Louisiana, Texas, etc.

 

[Dointhatrag]

They want to make it extra confusing by having both schools from Bowling Green in the same conference.

 

[Upg bobcat]

They offered them last year or so and both turned them down. I haven't heard if they are reconsidering. I think they'd be stupid to go to a Rust Belt League. CUSA stinks but I'd rather be playing in Florida, Georgia, Louisiana, Texas, etc.

Don't underestimate the power of the almighty dollar. It was enough to convince two schools from southern California to join the Rust Belt Big 10. If the MAC can offer enough, it will get Western Kentucky and Middle Tennessee -- just not sure if it can. I don't think adding those two schools makes the Tuesday and Wednesday night MACtion games worth much more to the networks.

 

[levance2]

IUPUI will become IU-Indianapolis with the Indiana/Purdue divorce.

Sort of interesting that IPFW (another Indiana-Purdue cooperative) transitioned to Purdue Fort Wayne.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Sort of interesting that IPFW (another Indiana-Purdue cooperative) transitioned to Purdue Fort Wayne.

That setup always baffled me. Never quite understood how they made that all work. With the splits, Purdue-Fort Wayne took over the sports programs and the majority of students. IU-Fort Wayne is tiny. Wikipedia says 750 students and just a couple majors.

In Indianapolis, most students convert over to IU-Indianapolis. Purdue will keep a few buildings but it sounds like Purdue will not actually consider their Indianapolis campus a separate school like Purdue-Fort Wayne. It sounds like their Indianapolis students will just be part of Purdue-West Lafayette (65 miles north) and students can elect to take classes on either campus but Indy will be geared more to students interning in Indy.

 

[HailToPitt725]

Figured I’d put this here. St. Thomas is going to be one of the top mid-major programs in the country within ten years. They have Big East-level donors that see schools like Marquette as peer institutions. I could see them getting an A10 invite eventually.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Figured I’d put this here. St. Thomas is going to be one of the top mid-major programs in the country within ten years. They have Big East-level donors that see schools like Marquette as peer institutions. I could see them getting an A10 invite eventually.

View embedded media

They are a cool story. Were D3 a few years ago but kicked out of their league for being too good so the Summit League reached out. I think its too big a stretch to see them go to the A10 but I could see the MVC. The A10 has gotten too big and too stretched. They really should break into 2 separate 8-team leagues so they guarantee themselves 2 bids. The Atlantic Sun had a plan to do this.

Atlantic 10 Conference
UMass
URI
Fordham
LaSalle
St. Joseph's
George Washington
George Mason
St. Bonaventure

Atlantic 10 Athletic Conference
VCU
Richmond
Davidson
Duquesne
Dayton
Saint Louis
Loyola
Wichita State (the AAC loses all good teams but Memphis and its a football league)

Play 10 games vs the other conference in Dec/Jan and then play a 14 game double round robin conference schedule in late Jan/Feb/March.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Play 10 games vs the other conference in Dec/Jan and then play a 14 game double round robin conference schedule in late Jan/Feb/March.

The coaches would just love a schedule like that.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

The coaches would just love a schedule like that.

I think they would. Their jobs depend on making the NCAAT or at least getting close. This gives them 2 bids and maybe 3-4 if certain teams win the conference tournaments. Using Duquesne as an example, if they replaced home games vs DePaul and Marshall with 2 teams from my A10 West and a road game vs Kentucky and home game vs Colgate (where admission was free) with 2 road games from the A10W, they'd take that for the better chances of making the tournament. Plus, even if you finish 6th or 7th, you feel like you still have a shot to win your conference tournament. There's no having to win 5 games in 5 days. Just 3 in 3.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

I think they would. Their jobs depend on making the NCAAT or at least getting close. This gives them 2 bids and maybe 3-4 if certain teams win the conference tournaments. Using Duquesne as an example, if they replaced home games vs DePaul and Marshall with 2 teams from my A10 West and a road game vs Kentucky and home game vs Colgate (where admission was free) with 2 road games from the A10W, they'd take that for the better chances of making the tournament. Plus, even if you finish 6th or 7th, you feel like you still have a shot to win your conference tournament. There's no having to win 5 games in 5 days. Just 3 in 3.

If you think that coaches would be in favor of giving up control over scheduling SIX games that they now can schedule whomever they want, wherever they want, in exchange for six more conference games that they are going to have to play three of on the road, you have lost your mind.

The ACC coaches didn't even want to go from 18 to 20. You think the A10 coaches will be happy going from 18 to 24. But to be fair, only because you have lost your mind.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Good bye St. Francis Brooklyn. They moved their "campus" into 3 floors of this new Wheeler Building, which doesn't have athletics facilities. NEC back down to 8, which is enough to maintain its auto bid. Though I wonder if Fairleigh Dickinson might be a candidate for the higher profile America East.

 

[JD1976]

Good bye St. Francis Brooklyn. They moved their "campus" into 3 floors of this new Wheeler Building, which doesn't have athletics facilities. NEC back down to 8, which is enough to maintain its auto bid. Though I wonder if Fairleigh Dickinson might be a candidate for the higher profile America East.

I wonder if Maryland-Eastern Shore is a possibility to move to the NEC full-time. Their baseball program is playing in the NEC already.

 

[HailToPitt725]

Bumping this because Western Illinois has announced they’re departing the Summit League for the Ohio Valley Conference.

From a few buddies I have within that league: don’t be surprised if the Summit makes a run at Green Bay + Milwaukee.