Gary Parrish on why Pitt is not a top 25 team

[Vader_Storm]

Right here he answers the question to what I said earlier. He looks at and stares at the net and pomeroy rankings. The link is at the bottom.

And this is why Parrish is wrong.


Last year, UNC started the season 12-6. They finished the season with a 12-3 record and went on to the National Title game. They got hot at seasons end as an 8 seed in the tournament.

Last year, St. Peter's started the year 12-11. They finished the season on a 7 game win streak, got hot, and went to the Elite 8. They lost to the team above them, North Carolina in the Elite 8.


How you finish the season is very important, I cant say that enough. But if some people want to stare at net rankings and pomeroy and efficiency sites and not look at how a team is actually playing (eye test) while watching the games and how a team finishes the season, its no wonder people arent going to take Gary Parrish serious.


What team right now wants Virginia, Pitt, or a team like Creighton that is winning games down the stretch of the season going into the NCAA Tournament? The answer is no one. What 1 seed wants Pitt on the 9 line or Creighton on the 9 line. No one.

 

[MarshallGoldberg]

Lots of straw man arguments in that video. Most of us understand the limits to head to head and overall record and the relevance of strength of schedule. No nuance to that segment.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

Where people are off the rails is that what Pitt has done the previous six seasons is irrelevant. Being in first place in the ACC and being ranked has probably never happened.

 

[Chairman Moe]

Interesting how Parrish almost convinced himself that Pitt IS much better than 26 when he mentioned the win @ NC State and wins vs UVA and UM; and predictably offset the NW win by mentioning the WVU loss

Either way, Pitt just needs to go 1-0 Saturday, and 1-0 in each of the games after that

 

[HailToPitt725]

The fact that he’s using Kent State and North Texas as justification for why Pitt isn’t ranked is a joke!

 

[Chairman Moe]

I also heard him (Parrish) say that Alabama is the best team in the country; hands down. Wonder how he feels after UTenn beat them tonight?

 

[Drew1208]

Where people are off the rails is that what Pitt has done the previous six seasons is irrelevant. Being in first place in the ACC and being ranked has probably never happened.

I just asked Chat GTP this question.
18-19 Clemson was 9-3 and in first place and not ranked

16-17 FSU unranked at 7-1 but Chat GTP didn't give me any other info

 

[Wanstash21]

what's sad is the amount of people that actually agree with Parrish. Sure, as Pitt fans, we think it's bogus because it's happening to us. I get that argument... but it's also happening to other teams. It's happened to other teams in the past.

going strictly off numbers will always skew rankings. There needs to be some eye test involved here and some guys refuse to do it... I'm not in the boat that a game in November isn't as important as a game in February.. both games matter equally .. they are each worth 1 win ... what I will argue is that people need to use common sense... and maybe it's because of the volume of teams and games that need tracked that most of these "experts" can't watch each team, but if you're following the ACC you would know that Pitt is really good, and Pitt has improved dramatically since the first month.

Pitt should be knocked for losing 3 in a row early in the year. Those losses shouldn't just go away .. that's sort of the price to playing the transfer market .. your team needs time to gel ... but if this team was followed as closely as a Big12 team, these experts wouldn't hold the early losses against Pitt as much... obviously the NET will no matter what.

what these numb skulls need to realize is that there isn't a perfect algorithm to grade teams... isn't that common sense? Technology is great. Machines are great.. but it's only as good as the person using it... if you have a shitty operator, it doesn't matter if you have the best machine in the world.. your product is garbage. That's how I feel with these "experts" .. they're clueless. They couldn't name 2 guys on Pitt's team without looking. That's where I get mad .. use some common sense here.. use your eyes for once ... look at Pitt's whole body of work, but also recognize what they've done over the last couple of months. It's not like we're 5th in the ACC... we're in 1st place! We have every single right to be mad

 

[PittPoker]

what's sad is the amount of people that actually agree with Parrish. Sure, as Pitt fans, we think it's bogus because it's happening to us. I get that argument... but it's also happening to other teams. It's happened to other teams in the past.

going strictly off numbers will always skew rankings. There needs to be some eye test involved here and some guys refuse to do it... I'm not in the boat that a game in November isn't as important as a game in February.. both games matter equally .. they are each worth 1 win ... what I will argue is that people need to use common sense... and maybe it's because of the volume of teams and games that need tracked that most of these "experts" can't watch each team, but if you're following the ACC you would know that Pitt is really good, and Pitt has improved dramatically since the first month.

Pitt should be knocked for losing 3 in a row early in the year. Those losses shouldn't just go away .. that's sort of the price to playing the transfer market .. your team needs time to gel ... but if this team was followed as closely as a Big12 team, these experts wouldn't hold the early losses against Pitt as much... obviously the NET will no matter what.

what these numb skulls need to realize is that there isn't a perfect algorithm to grade teams... isn't that common sense? Technology is great. Machines are great.. but it's only as good as the person using it... if you have a shitty operator, it doesn't matter if you have the best machine in the world.. your product is garbage. That's how I feel with these "experts" .. they're clueless. They couldn't name 2 guys on Pitt's team without looking. That's where I get mad .. use some common sense here.. use your eyes for once ... look at Pitt's whole body of work, but also recognize what they've done over the last couple of months. It's not like we're 5th in the ACC... we're in 1st place! We have every single right to be mad

Agree completely. Like I wrote yesterday, I would bet the majority of these voters for the top 25 don't even know Pitt has won 18 of 22, 6 in a row and even that they beat Northwestern which is now the new media darling I'm sure of the week. I really do think teams like Pitt suffer tremendously from expectations and their recent history of sucking for the past 6 seasons.

I also believe that if UNC had the exact same resume as us and record they would be in the top 10-15 and Lunardi and others would have them as a 4 or 5 seed. No joke I think that's a fact.

 

[wbrpanther]

Right here he answers the question to what I said earlier. He looks at and stares at the net and pomeroy rankings. The link is at the bottom.

And this is why Parrish is wrong.


Last year, UNC started the season 12-6. They finished the season with a 12-3 record and went on to the National Title game. They got hot at seasons end as an 8 seed in the tournament.

Last year, St. Peter's started the year 12-11. They finished the season on a 7 game win streak, got hot, and went to the Elite 8. They lost to the team above them, North Carolina in the Elite 8.


How you finish the season is very important, I cant say that enough. But if some people want to stare at net rankings and pomeroy and efficiency sites and not look at how a team is actually playing (eye test) while watching the games and how a team finishes the season, its no wonder people arent going to take Gary Parrish serious.


What team right now wants Virginia, Pitt, or a team like Creighton that is winning games down the stretch of the season going into the NCAA Tournament? The answer is no one. What 1 seed wants Pitt on the 9 line or Creighton on the 9 line. No one.

View embedded media

Douche bag with horned rim glasses.

 

[Vader_Storm]

going strictly off numbers will always skew rankings. There needs to be some eye test involved here and some guys refuse to do it... I'm not in the boat that a game in November isn't as important as a game in February.. both games matter equally .. they are each worth 1 win ... what I will argue is that people need to use common sense... and maybe it's because of the volume of teams and games that need tracked that most of these "experts" can't watch each team, but if you're following the ACC you would know that Pitt is really good, and Pitt has improved dramatically since the first month.

So lets say for example team a and team b have a net ranking of 1 number separating the two, for example 36 vs 37 net ranking, They have the same Q1 wins, Q2 wins, and same road record. They have the same conference record. They have the same team record as seasons end.

Team A started the season great, but lost 8 of its last 10 games. Team B started the season off bad, but won its last 10 games. You think these two teams should be on the same seed line because all games are equal? I sure don't.

Here are some examples.

Team A looks like Uconn who is limping into the NCAA Tournament right now. Team B looks like Creighton who has been on fire since getting all their injured players back and just beat Uconn. Team A looks like Rutgers who started great, then lost one of its better players to an ACL tear, and now cant beat anybody right now. Team B looks like Pitt who had Nike Sibande coming off an ACL tear who was terrible at the start of the season but great at the end of the season and now the team is hot at seasons end.


Team A looks like Arizona State who started the year 15-3, won the Legends Classic, but has been on the verge of collapse to finish the season. Team B looks like Texas A&M who who got killed in the non conference schedule with bad losses to Wofford, Boise State and Murray State among others with 5 non conference losses. Texas A&M is now steamrolling over the SEC conference.


Team A is TCU who started off the season 14-1. TCU has now lost 5 of their last 6 games and 8 of their last 12 games of the season. Team B is Northwestern who has won 7 of its last 9 Big Ten games, beat the #1 team in the country, and beat the #14 team in the country with 3 additional road wins sprinkled in during this time frame as they vaulted into 2nd place in the Big Ten.



As a Pitt fan, which team do you want at seasons end to face in the NCAA Tournament? The team that started the season off hot but cant beat anybody at the end of the year. Or the team that started off cold in November but is now dominating its conference at season end and is red hot going into the tournament.


Sorry, but not all games are created equal. The end of the season games matter a heck of a lot more than the early season. They used to give special treatment to teams on seeding for how they finished the last 10 games. That needs to be brought back.


As a Pitt fan, please give me any team limping into the NCAA Tournament at seasons end and losing games constantly at seasons end over the team that started off cold in November but is red hot in February.

 

[JS School]

Douche bag with horned rim glasses.

He looks like he's disguising himself as a 1975 AMC Pacer.

I don't care what his argument is, the fact that he thinks Pitt fans should be grateful to him for voting them 26th is what annoyed me. I don't care if he voted them 1st or 101st. There's a lot of things in life I'm grateful for, where some cockroach sportswriter ranks my favorite team probably doesn't make the top 1 million.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

I understand the lack of respect Pitt is receiving nationally and really who cares . A few more impressive wins down the stretch will rectify this .

If anything being disrespected will only be a motivational tool the last thing we want now is the team to rest on its laurels . Stay mean and hungry !

 

[Wanstash21]

So lets say for example team a and team b have a net ranking of 1 number separating the two, for example 36 vs 37 net ranking, They have the same Q1 wins, Q2 wins, and same road record. They have the same conference record. They have the same team record as seasons end.

Team A started the season great, but lost 8 of its last 10 games. Team B started the season off bad, but won its last 10 games. You think these two teams should be on the same seed line because all games are equal? I sure don't.

Here are some examples.

Team A looks like Uconn who is limping into the NCAA Tournament right now. Team B looks like Creighton who has been on fire since getting all their injured players back and just beat Uconn. Team A looks like Rutgers who started great, then lost one of its better players to an ACL tear, and now cant beat anybody right now. Team B looks like Pitt who had Nike Sibande coming off an ACL tear who was terrible at the start of the season but great at the end of the season and now the team is hot at seasons end.


Team A looks like Arizona State who started the year 15-3, won the Legends Classic, but has been on the verge of collapse to finish the season. Team B looks like Texas A&M who who got killed in the non conference schedule with bad losses to Wofford, Boise State and Murray State among others with 5 non conference losses. Texas A&M is now steamrolling over the SEC conference.


Team A is TCU who started off the season 14-1. TCU has now lost 5 of their last 6 games and 8 of their last 12 games of the season. Team B is Northwestern who has won 7 of its last 9 Big Ten games, beat the #1 team in the country, and beat the #14 team in the country with 3 additional road wins sprinkled in during this time frame as they vaulted into 2nd place in the Big Ten.



As a Pitt fan, which team do you want at seasons end to face in the NCAA Tournament? The team that started the season off hot but cant beat anybody at the end of the year. Or the team that started off cold in November but is now dominating its conference at season end and is red hot going into the tournament.


Sorry, but not all games are created equal. The end of the season games matter a heck of a lot more than the early season. They used to give special treatment to teams on seeding for how they finished the last 10 games. That needs to be brought back.


As a Pitt fan, please give me any team limping into the NCAA Tournament at seasons end and losing games constantly at seasons end over the team that started off cold in November but is red hot in February.

I don't disagree with what you're saying ... my last paragraph I said that the last couple of months needs to be recognized ... but you should also be rewarded for early season wins .. I don't think winning a tough game early should go unnoticed ... and maybe that's the thought behind the NET and these ranking systems because recency bias exists in sports.

TCU is missing their best player ... I understand the Creighton argument, but again, injuries happen and whether it's unlucky or not... you need to win games. We can look at them now and say yeah, they're a good team fully healthy.. but they weren't fully healthy .. we can't just ignore the games they lost... because you can quite literally make the same argument for TCU missing Miles and now losing games ..

 

[nycpanther98]

Didn't think he was that unreasonable. Can see why some haven't ranked us yet even if I disagree. Need to keep taking care of business like we know we can.

 

[deepelemblues]

Lots of straw man arguments in that video. Most of us understand the limits to head to head and overall record and the relevance of strength of schedule. No nuance to that segment.

What limits are there to head to head lol

 

[wbrpanther]

He looks like he's disguising himself as a 1975 AMC Pacer.

I don't care what his argument is, the fact that he thinks Pitt fans should be grateful to him for voting them 26th is what annoyed me. I don't care if he voted them 1st or 101st. There's a lot of things in life I'm grateful for, where some cockroach sportswriter ranks my favorite team probably doesn't make the top 1 million.

Yeah. He came off as wanting us to kiss his ass.

 

[MarshallGoldberg]

What limits are there to head to head lol

One team is 20-3. Another is 9-12. The 9-12 team won the head to head match up. Do you automatically rank them higher? Of course not. We all understand teams have a bad day. Head to head matters for teams closer in rankings for sure though, and systems like NET don't consider that since they're not made to rank resumes.

 

[Pitt79]

Where people are off the rails is that what Pitt has done the previous six seasons is irrelevant. Being in first place in the ACC and being ranked has probably never happened.

I think you meant to say UNranked. Historically the ACC is either #1 or no worse than #2 ranked conference, so you're probably right. And just from that prospective alone, the voters should probably be more simple minded and just say, first place team in the ACC men's basketball should be Top 25 just for that alone, and not care what happened in games last November.