Georgia Tech Game & Other Dribbles ...

[rockypanther]

** There was a post on during this loss tonight that I found interesting. The poster suggested that Capel was being “outcoached” by Josh Pastner.

** When it comes to basketball, I always wonder about the term “outcoached.” Basketball generally isn’t a game where the coach who makes the better decisions during the game is the winner. So in that sense, I don’t think there was anything about Capel’s in game decisions that were in any way inferior to that of his counterpart.

** But to the other extreme, the Head Coach is the CEO for everything about the team, which includes recruiting the talent, to motivation, to preparation. So in the most general sense, the winning coach always “outcoaches” the losing coach one could suggest, yes?

** I might go even further to suggest that there was nothing necessarily substandard in Coach Capel’s preparation today. Our guys seemed to know what G-tech was going to throw at them today. They even executed some decent offense at times. As many have said, coaches can’t make the shots for their players.

** Accordingly, coaches can yell and scream all they want for their players to hustle back and not get beaten down the court on defense. But they can’t do it for them.

** So in that sense, the Panthers didn’t look like a “poorly coached” team today. But they were certainly the second best team on the court today. And knowing we were playing a 4-11 conference team at home tonight, that in itself a fairly damming statement about our coach one could think.

** What we learned against North Carolina is that we have a decent starting five, who have enough ability to win a game at Chapel Hill when all five are playing well.

** What we learned tonight (if we didn’t already know), is that we will lose to a bottom ACC team when our starting pair of guards combine for 7 points and 7 turnovers.

** We learned a long time ago that we can’t win games when we don’t grind the game down and defend with a vengeance. That wasn’t how we defended today, especially in the first half. And as mentioned previously, the number of times the Yellow Jackets simply outran the Panthers down the court for easy layups was beyond troubling.

** I’m not a fan of most sports clichés, but one I completely agree with is “your record says what you are.” And even though CEO Capel succeeded in keeping the complete bottom from falling out of this season as it appeared it might in November, we are still an 11-17 Basketball team. We are still a team who will likely finish almost certainly no better than 7-13 in the ACC if that.

** And regardless of any other opinion one might have about Coach Capel, he’s still the CEO with a .295 league winning percentage in four years.

** It’s pretty pointless for me or any other message board poster to offer up a diatribe as to whether we think Capel should stay or go. I appreciate all of the nuances that go into such a decision that go beyond a .295 league win percentage over four years. It’s someone else’s job to make that decision.

** This much I will say. I expect that Jeff Capel will be our Coach next year. And because of this, I can only hope that he can somehow, somewhere he will find some players in April and May to offer any real hope that year five will in any way be any different than the first four.

** Maybe job number one is trying to find some way, somehow to get another year for Mo Gueye. For the most part, this season has not offered much to fans other than avoiding the bottom falling out. The only exception has been Mr. Mo, who has been more fun to watch than any Panther player since Mr. Patterson demonstrated his Winston Wolf-like ways on the hardwood.

** So this fan will be there on Tuesday to watch our Panthers in hopes that we can secure a 7th ACC win. And I’ll be there next year too, regardless of who holds the job of CEO. That’s the best I can do. I just hope our Coach can do better.

I don’t think Capel is a good consistent coach in terms of team preparation and getting the most out of all his players. For this reason, he is going to have to somehow pull the elite level transfers this time around to get us to the tourney. Think about it. Even with Mo and Burton we have 11 wins. He needs to cheat or do whatever he can to pull 2 more Mo’s and an elite difference maker for next year.

 

[rockypanther]

They need someone better than Gueye. And I love Mo. Absolutely love him. And I’d love him back. But this group is not a NCAA group. They just aren’t.

They need to find 2-3 players who are better than anyone currently on the roster. They need a better guard than Femi, Burton, Nike, or Horton. And they need a better big than Gueye. Because those guys are not a NCAA group. Plain and simple.

The other teams in the ACC will add pieces. This team just getting older and getting Nike back isn’t that big of a deal.

They need better players.

We need to go 8-9 deep too. What happened to Oladipo. I liked him in the limited minutes I saw him.

 

[HailToPitt1985]

Worst play of the game -- the moment when I resigned myeslf to the fact we wouldn't win ...

Femi is on the foul line for 2 shots at the 10:35 mark with a chance to cut it to 13. He makes the first and misses the second. And from a missed foul shot, DeVoe somehow gets down the court ahead of our Panthers three seconds later for an easy layup to drive the lead back to 16.

This is simply atrocious.

I saw that, too. It was more than atrocious. I saw Hugley moping and just walking up the court on another play where after a missed shot, he didn't make a rebound and GT made another easy layup in transition with our lazy defense. It was very discouraging to watch our awful lack of defense for more than 90% of the night.

We proved we are what we thought we were...a sub-0.500 bad ACC team. Other than Gueye and possibly Hugley, if and when he decides to play basketball, we have no player on that court that is a starter on an ACC team. None. They're all bench players if that. We have no recruits coming in. The transfer portal is a crap shoot. The chances of us getting another Gueye are very slim. And what are our prospects beyond next year, for that matter, with no recruiting whatsoever happening?

But like you DT, I'll still be at the games because I'm a Pitt fan. Not as much as in the past because of my travel schedule, but I'll still be there for some games. It's what we do.

 

[NTOP]

Point taken. Just can't help that I would just love to see more of him.

Yep.

We will have to respectfully disagree. Nonetheless, if you understood the totality of my post, then you'll realize I was in no way trying to offer a defense of Coach Capel. I just think looking at small pieces misses the big picture.

The big picture is obvious. Capel should be terminated tomorrow.

This was such a predictable trap game coming off that really nice W against UNC. I'm not surprised at all by the loss.

A loss while making maximum effort stings. A loss with sporadic effort stinks.

 

[HailToPitt1985]

Femi looked completely disinterested from the tip. Unfortunately, Eze is just in over his head at this level. Burton always gives a good effort, but yeah... he didn't have it tonight.

As far as getting outcoached goes, I think what hurt us as much as anything was Georgia Tech's movement without the ball. How many times did they cut into the lane and deposit a wide open layup in the first half? We had no answer for that on defense, it seemed. I would say we definitely got outcoached.

For as nice as that three-game winning streak was, games like this and at BC lead me to believe we're really not as close as some might think.

GT passed the ball extremely well on the perimeter and found the open man often. Pitt is too interested in having their guards dribble all around the perimeter to try and play one on one and find openings. That's poor coaching and not having quality players at the guard positions.

Pitt is what we saw last night....a poor, lower-level ACC team with no true quality guards, poorly coached, and a bunch of other players who would be bench players for most other ACC teams. They are way too inconsistent which is a result of a lack of talent and effort. There are no prospects...NONE...for new talent coming in. It is who we are now until changes are made at the top.

 

[HailToPitt1985]

And there is a much bigger picture at play. The biggest .. we have 10th place ACC talent at best in our starting five and nothing beyond that.

This is it in a nutshell. Our starting 5 roster is not ACC-level talent as a whole. Most are just bench players on a top 5 ACC roster.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

We can have all these FIRE CAPEL threads and talk X and O's until the cows come in. But when you get NOTHING from your 3 starting guards, you are going to lose. Just because it was GT it was relatively close. Most other teams would have smoked us.

Our guards where horrible.

Ithiel is a spot up shooter when he is on, he is just deadly. But when he is not? His lack of athleticism shows (I am going to beat this into the ground, he is no more athletic than Micah Mason who people said could not play for us) and we see this when he is on the break (how come the ball always seemingly finds him on the break?) and he never finishes and his poor handle also doesn't allow him to make a play to someone else on the break. So Ithiel was off, you will have those days. And when that happens, he doesn't add much.

Femi was bad Femi right from the get. Just bad turnovers, lackadaisical play and decisions, couldn't finish, couldn't shoot. Just bad. Really bad.

Which the two could have been overcome by maybe the most consistent player all year in Burton. But...Burton was bad. Couldn't get open, couldn't get his shot, couldn't finish, lost on defense. Just bad.

When these three go 4-25 combined from the floor. Well, nothing really else needs to be discussed.

Oh except the small progress Collier and Jeffress have made over the past few weeks was stunted as these two combined for 2 more turnovers than they did shot attempts.

There ya go. There is your "insider" analysis.

Fire Capel! Box Outs! Rebounding! Defensive help! Switching! Etc.......none of this matters when your back court shoots a combined 4-25. That's 16 percent.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

A couple of other things.

Anyone ever see Basketball Diaries, our backcourt looked like DiCaprio and Wahlberg on that game they took the qualuudes before, because they were just sleepwalking and behind almost every play offensively and defensively.

The problem we have and this is on Capel, we have ZERO answers on the bench. Especially in the backcourt. There is no one worth or capable of coming in when your entire backcourt is failing to give the team a needed lift or boost.

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

We can have all these FIRE CAPEL threads and talk X and O's until the cows come in. But when you get NOTHING from your 3 starting guards, you are going to lose. Just because it was GT it was relatively close. Most other teams would have smoked us.

Our guards where horrible.

Ithiel is a spot up shooter when he is on, he is just deadly. But when he is not? His lack of athleticism shows (I am going to beat this into the ground, he is no more athletic than Micah Mason who people said could not play for us) and we see this when he is on the break (how come the ball always seemingly finds him on the break?) and he never finishes and his poor handle also doesn't allow him to make a play to someone else on the break. So Ithiel was off, you will have those days. And when that happens, he doesn't add much.

Femi was bad Femi right from the get. Just bad turnovers, lackadaisical play and decisions, couldn't finish, couldn't shoot. Just bad. Really bad.

Which the two could have been overcome by maybe the most consistent player all year in Burton. But...Burton was bad. Couldn't get open, couldn't get his shot, couldn't finish, lost on defense. Just bad.

When these three go 4-25 combined from the floor. Well, nothing really else needs to be discussed.

Oh except the small progress Collier and Jeffress have made over the past few weeks was stunted as these two combined for 2 more turnovers than they did shot attempts.

There ya go. There is your "insider" analysis.

Fire Capel! Box Outs! Rebounding! Defensive help! Switching! Etc.......none of this matters when your back court shoots a combined 4-25. That's 16 percent.

But every time Horton makes a first half three someone @‘s me on here!

 

[TheSpecialSauce]

A couple of other things.

Anyone ever see Basketball Diaries, our backcourt looked like DiCaprio and Wahlberg on that game they took the qualuudes before, because they were just sleepwalking and behind almost every play offensively and defensively.

The problem we have and this is on Capel, we have ZERO answers on the bench. Especially in the backcourt. There is no one worth or capable of coming in when your entire backcourt is failing to give the team a needed lift or boost.

The lack of depth is all on Capel. He’s had 4 years to build a team.

 

[gary2]

The lack of depth is all on Capel. He’s had 4 years to build a team.

Yep

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

But every time Horton makes a first half three someone @‘s me on here!

It is funny, see Ithiel, when he is on, he is a fantastic shooter. Pretty form. He is more of a white farm kid. Sean McNeil of WVU. Because he really has no other attributes. Granted, in the sport now, being able to shoot is a GREAT ATTRIBUTE, important. But it is all he got. The thing is, you can't bench him when he is off because you never know when he is going to catch fire, and there is nothing else on the bench.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

The lack of depth is all on Capel. He’s had 4 years to build a team.

I said that.

 

[gary2]

The lack of depth is all on Capel. He’s had 4 years to build a team.

Capel’s efforts in last season’s portal:

 

[PittPharm2002]

Worst play of the game -- the moment when I resigned myeslf to the fact we wouldn't win ...

Femi is on the foul line for 2 shots at the 10:35 mark with a chance to cut it to 13. He makes the first and misses the second. And from a missed foul shot, DeVoe somehow gets down the court ahead of our Panthers three seconds later for an easy layup to drive the lead back to 16.

This is simply atrocious.

That was simply beyond Terrible
It was a total lack of hustle-
And it happened multiple times after gt got a defensive rebound

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

That was simply beyond Terrible
It was a total lack of hustle-
And it happened multiple times after gt got a defensive rebound

That's what I said. They looked like they were on downers. A step (or 2) behind almost every play on both ends.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

DT you say the coaching wasn't poor? I'm sorry but I disagree. The last minute of the game was awful. We don't foul right away and let 25 seconds go off the clock. Down by 6 with 20 seconds left JB goes for a layup? Why isn't he or someone else taking a quick 3? to me it's coaching ineptitude.

The thing that made no sense is that we missed a shot at 52 seconds down six and with two fouls to give. We commit the first foul immediately and the second foul four seconds later. OK, so far so good. And then we wait 19 seconds to commit the foul that gets them to the one and one. And the whole time we had someone right with the guy with the ball, in position to easily commit a foul. And yet we waited and waited and waited.

As for the layup down six, I was listening to the Virginia Tech - North Carolina game on the way down to the Pete and Virginia Tech did something similar. They were down 9 with just under a minute to go and they took and made a two. They fouled and Carolina made both foul shots, so still down 9. And they took another two, which they missed but got the rebound and a put back with a little over 30 seconds left. Fouled again, Carolina makes two again, still down nine. And they take another two! And miss. Carolina gets the rebound, gets fouled, and makes two more foul shots. Now it's 11 and there are only 20 seconds left and Virginia Tech finally takes, and makes, a three.

Too many players and coaches don't seem to understand game situations.

 

[sonofabit]

Why do you want to punish Mo? He deserves better.

Ahh. The ghost of Beano…

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

And we had 2 guys with REALLY off nights tonight

I think you are selling that third guy, who shot 3-11 from the field and gave up points by the bushel basket full on the other end of the court, a little short here.

We play three guards and all three of them had really off nights.

 

[NTOP]

The thing that made no sense is that we missed a shot at 52 seconds down six and with two fouls to give. We commit the first foul immediately and the second foul four seconds later. OK, so far so good. And then we wait 19 seconds to commit the foul that gets them to the one and one. And the whole time we had someone right with the guy with the ball, in position to easily commit a foul. And yet we waited and waited and waited.

As for the layup down six, I was listening to the Virginia Tech - North Carolina game on the way down to the Pete and Virginia Tech did something similar. They were down 9 with just under a minute to go and they took and made a two. They fouled and Carolina made both foul shots, so still down 9. And they took another two, which they missed but got the rebound and a put back with a little over 30 seconds left. Fouled again, Carolina makes two again, still down nine. And they take another two! And miss. Carolina gets the rebound, gets fouled, and makes two more foul shots. Now it's 11 and there are only 20 seconds left and Virginia Tech finally takes, and makes, a three.

Too many players and coaches don't seem to understand game situations.

That was nuts. Yelling "foul him" at the TV. But isn't someone on the bench supposed to follow that stuff? Which reminds me....who is the guy sitting next to Capel?? Didn't look like Milan??
Seemed to be giving info to JC.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

That was nuts. Yelling "foul him" at the TV. But isn't someone on the bench supposed to follow that stuff?

For the record, I glanced over at the bench during that time and Capel was yelling for Horton (iirc) to foul. And he didn't. And when we finally did commit the foul (Hugley, iirc) he was not a happy camper that it took that long to foul.

 

[NTOP]

For the record, I glanced over at the bench during that time and Capel was yelling for Horton (iirc) to foul. And he didn't. And when we finally did commit the foul (Hugley, iirc) he was not a happy camper that it took that long to foul.

OK. But I'd expect kids this age to get a primer on last minutes clock mgmt. Should have been discussed at the last TO, but who knows? No freshmen saw time last night, and we only have one, who isn't ready yet.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

OK. But I'd expect kids this age to get a primer on last minutes clock mgmt. Should have been discussed at the last TO, but who knows? No freshmen saw time last night, and we only have one, who isn't ready yet.

See, I'd expect guys at this level to not need the coach to be telling them that they had to foul there. I mean if you asked the kids on "Are you smarter than a 5th grader" whether they should be fouling there or not the 5th graders would get it right. The fact that we had college basketball player/players who didn't understand that we needed to foul there as soon as possible might reflect poorly on the coach, but not nearly as poorly as it reflects on the player/players.

 

[PittPharm2002]

See, I'd expect guys at this level to not need the coach to be telling them that they had to foul there. I mean if you asked the kids on "Are you smarter than a 5th grader" whether they should be fouling there or not the 5th graders would get it right. The fact that we had college basketball player/players who didn't understand that we needed to foul there as soon as possible might reflect poorly on the coach, but not nearly as poorly as it reflects on the player/players.

I mean very aggressively going for the steal or turnover was plan a
Once they break pressure fouling has to be known
We only had 2 fouls when we started pressing -
So had nothing to lose

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

We only had 2 fouls when we started pressing -

When Tech got called for their 10th team foul (I think it was the Hugley and one right around the four minute mark) I said to the guy that I go to the games with that the fact that we had only committed two team fouls to that point in the second half was going to come back to haunt us if we did make a comeback.

Damn those ACC refs for being so tilted in our favor!

 

[gary2]

When Tech got called for their 10th team foul (I think it was the Hugley and one right around the four minute mark) I said to the guy that I go to the games with that the fact that we had only committed two team fouls to that point in the second half was going to come back to haunt us if we did make a comeback.

Damn those ACC refs for being so tilted in our favor!

What did you think of the fourth foul on Howard after a very extended allowed fight over the ball?

I know we all want Pitt to win,but that call was outrageous.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

What did you think of the fourth foul on Howard after a very extended allowed fight over the ball?

I know we all want Pitt to win,but that call was outrageous.

I said at the time that they could have called about eight different things there before they called that foul.

I mean I agree with the ref in the sense that it was a foul, and refs should call fouls when they see them. But man, they sure did let a whole lot go before they got to that one.

 

[gary2]

I said at the time that they could have called about eight different things there before they called that foul.

I mean I agree with the ref in the sense that it was a foul, and refs should call fouls when they see them. But man, they sure did let a whole lot go before they got to that one.

Thanks for the reply.

 

[Upg bobcat]

For some reason, Capel's Panthers struggle against Pastner's Yellow Jackets. Is the record 1-4 or something like that? Similar to how we have also traditionally struggled with NC State (nice to get in a win column against them for once). And on the flip side, Capel's team seems to pull off some gems against UNC. It could just be a weird match-up thing with the types of players the programs recruit, or the offensive or defensive system they run, or something like that.

 

[levance2]

For some reason, Capel's Panthers struggle against Pastner's Yellow Jackets. Is the record 1-4 or something like that? Similar to how we have also traditionally struggled with NC State (nice to get in a win column against them for once). And on the flip side, Capel's team seems to pull off some gems against UNC. It could just be a weird match-up thing with the types of players the programs recruit, or the offensive or defensive system they run, or something like that.

People can say whatever they want about the players and their effort, but I just can't wrap my head around Capel having the opportunity to set a new high-water mark for ACC wins in a season, at home, against the last place team, riding a 3-game win streak, on senior night. The message we got back from the team was "we weren't focused and we knew it." They went down 20. This should have been the easiest game of the year to keep them focused.

 

[HailToPitt1985]

People can say whatever they want about the players and their effort, but I just can't wrap my head around Capel having the opportunity to set a new high-water mark for ACC wins in a season, at home, against the last place team, riding a 3-game win streak, on senior night. The message we got back from the team was "we weren't focused and we knew it." They went down 20. This should have been the easiest game of the year to keep them focused.

This is obvious. Capel's incompetence and inadequacies as a head coach have been clearly stated by many on this board ad nauseum. He was once again unable to keep his team focused on the goal at hand. Their play on both ends of the court was at least partially (mostly) a result of his very poor coaching and preparation. This has happened too many times just this year to be dismissed. His incompetence has repeatedly been on display.

 

[Franb]

When Tech got called for their 10th team foul (I think it was the Hugley and one right around the four minute mark) I said to the guy that I go to the games with that the fact that we had only committed two team fouls to that point in the second half was going to come back to haunt us if we did make a comeback.

Damn those ACC refs for being so tilted in our favor!

A similar scenario happened in an ACC home game earlier this year, Pitt was down near the end and had only committed a few team fouls. And waited too long to commit the fouls to send the opponent to the line.

 

[Saboteur II]

People can say whatever they want about the players and their effort, but I just can't wrap my head around Capel having the opportunity to set a new high-water mark for ACC wins in a season, at home, against the last place team, riding a 3-game win streak, on senior night. The message we got back from the team was "we weren't focused and we knew it." They went down 20. This should have been the easiest game of the year to keep them focused.

For the record, I hate Senior nights. It is the worst time to celebrate. Too many distractions and guys are not motivated one bit more on those nights. That is why it has been moved away from the last home game of the season.

 

[lilspainishflea]

For some reason, Capel's Panthers struggle against Pastner's Yellow Jackets. Is the record 1-4 or something like that? Similar to how we have also traditionally struggled with NC State (nice to get in a win column against them for once). And on the flip side, Capel's team seems to pull off some gems against UNC. It could just be a weird match-up thing with the types of players the programs recruit, or the offensive or defensive system they run, or something like that.

Capel struggles against everyone in the ACC, it's just more mystifying against GT since they're also often bad.

 

[gary2]

Capel struggles against everyone in the ACC, it's just more mystifying against GT since they're also often bad.

I think he does better against coaches that don’t do a lot of coaching?

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

That is why it has been moved away from the last home game of the season.

I assumed it was moved away from the last home game of the season because the last home game of the season is on a Tuesday night and it's easier for the out of town parents to come in on a Saturday, so they do it the last Saturday game of the season.

 

[Gunga_Galunga]

I sat court side for the game tonight. I had a good time. Best crowd this year. Team defense was atrocious. Mo was tremendous. Their changing defenses confused JB and Femi. Gtech played well. We didn’t.

Sucks to lay an egg against a team like GT when you finally get some energy back in the building. The defensive effort was the most disheartening.

First game my wife has come to all year, I blame her.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

It is funny, see Ithiel, when he is on, he is a fantastic shooter. Pretty form. He is more of a white farm kid. Sean McNeil of WVU. Because he really has no other attributes. Granted, in the sport now, being able to shoot is a GREAT ATTRIBUTE, important. But it is all he got. The thing is, you can't bench him when he is off because you never know when he is going to catch fire, and there is nothing else on the bench.

Basketball is really just 3 point shooting now. Horton is shooting an absurd 46% from 3 this year which would make him one of the best in the nation if he had enough attempts. That is an incredible asset for a team. To be able to make 3s at that clip negates any defensive disadvantage. You should be able to have a player like that guard the weakest perimeter for the other team and hold that player to a respectable total. It isnt like the weakest perimeter player is going to go for 20 every night because Horton is guarding them.

 

[HailToPitt1985]

Sucks to lay an egg against a team like GT when you finally get some energy back in the building. The defensive effort was the most disheartening.

First game my wife has come to all year, I blame her.

As decent of a crowd as they had for GT, in terms of attendance this year being as pathetic as it has been, I doubt that tonight's game will see more than 1,500 attending, including the Zoo. The Duke game will see more fans because there will be half Duke fans there, maybe more.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Basketball is really just 3 point shooting now. Horton is shooting an absurd 46% from 3 this year which would make him one of the best in the nation if he had enough attempts. That is an incredible asset for a team. To be able to make 3s at that clip negates any defensive disadvantage. You should be able to have a player like that guard the weakest perimeter for the other team and hold that player to a respectable total. It isnt like the weakest perimeter player is going to go for 20 every night because Horton is guarding them.

I basically said that exact same thing above. Yeah, that is why you can't sit him. But when his two other backcourt mates are going to combine for 2 points........and Horton is off too? No chance to win.