Good article about the Big 12 and why a 6-8 team playoff is in everyone's best interest...

[Pitt79]

Till a team with 3 losses gets in.

Who cares? It happens in EVERY OTHER SPORT, Arizona went to the Super Bowl at 9-7, Villanova was an 11th seed with 10 losses when they beat Georgetown for the title in '84, the 2005 Steelers where the 6th seed in the AFC and won Super Bowl XL. Why do you care? That's sports! And you know what? those are the greatest most memorable stories that are never forgotten, when the underdog stands up and shocks the world.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

Again, automatic bids would be unfair. Say the ACC coastal champ has 3 losses but beats the Atlantic champ with 0 losses. Are you telling me that 3 loss team should get an automatic bid?

I would go with automatic bids providing that Conference Champ has no more than one loss.

Yes, that is absolutely what I'm telling you. It is no different than every other sport.

You know it's really unfair, having two teams that are 11 – 1 and having a committee – some of whom are unqualified – making a determination on who is the more deserving 11 – 1 team. That's not a good system. It is in adequate and embarrassing.

NO GUARANTEED BIDS !!!!! There are going to be times when a conference champ, because of the unpredictability of a playoff game, is going to have 2 or sometimes 3 losses. A 2 or 3 loss team getting a bid while one loss or even zero loss teams stay home is ridiculous and unfair.

When all the games are over the committee should look at the landscape as one big conference then choose the 4 or 6 or 8 best.

Nope, I want less subjectivity in college football, not more of it.

It's amazing to me that anyone could look at the public opinion polling system that has been in place for years and decry how a system that is more objective would somehow be less fair.

That just doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

Till a team with 3 losses gets in.

So what?

They would then still have to win three playoff games to win the championship.

The Los Angeles Rams played in Super Bowl XIV against the Steelers and they were 9–7 in the regular season. They very nearly won the Super Bowl.

People tend to remember that game as a Steelers blowout but that's completely untrue. That game was very much in doubt with five minutes left.

Had the Rams won, would that championship somehow have been less legitimate because they were just 9-7?

No way!

Do people look down on Villanova's 1985 men's basketball championship even though they had a whopping 10 losses?

Do people question the legitimacy of the NCAA championship winning 1983 NC State Wolfpack because they had 10 losses?

No and no!

That's how it works, or at least how it works at every other level of football and every other sport in America.

People are over complicating this.

I don't want Condoleezza Rice determining whether or not Washington is better than Clemson. She has no business doing that anymore than Barry Alvarez does deciding whether or not we should invade Mosul.

It makes no goddamn sense.

I don't want a sports writer who covers Ohio State voting on teams that he never sees play because he's too busy doing his job.

We have to get rid of all of the committees and polling - at least as much as is humanly possible. That's a WAY bigger problem than whether or not the third best SEC team deserves to get in because, after all they do travel well.

 

[BFo8]

And some of them think it's a terrible idea. It's only remotely tolerated because Oakland isn't really a thriving market either.

And either way, an Nfl team in the region doesn't exactly make a team like UNLV more attractive.

It's not having an NFL team in the region, it's that UNLV will be playing in a brand new 2 billion dollar stadium, that will probably be the finest in the country.

One thing that's a guarantee, there will be a Super Bowl being played there as soon as one is eligible, and some conference will be having their title game there.

The PAC already has their basketball conference tournament here, and I assume they will play their title game at the new stadium as well.

These conferences can obviously play their title games here without having UNLV being a part of the conference, but I think eventually they will be invited to join somewhere. There is a real expectation that the program will take a quantum leap forward with the new arrangements.

 

[topdecktiger]

So what?

They would then still have to win three playoff games to win the championship.

The Los Angeles Rams played in Super Bowl XIV against the Steelers and they were 9–7 in the regular season. They very nearly won the Super Bowl.

People tend to remember that game as a Steelers blowout but that's completely untrue. That game was very much in doubt with five minutes left.

Had the Rams won, would that championship somehow have been less legitimate because they were just 9-7?

No way!

Do people look down on Villanova's 1985 men's basketball championship even though they had a whopping 10 losses?

Do people question the legitimacy of the NCAA championship winning 1983 NC State Wolfpack because they had 10 losses?

No and no!

That's how it works, or at least how it works at every other level of football and every other sport in America.

People are over complicating this.

I don't want Condoleezza Rice determining whether or not Washington is better than Clemson. She has no business doing that anymore than Barry Alvarez does deciding whether or not we should invade Mosul.

It makes no goddamn sense.

I don't want a sports writer who covers Ohio State voting on teams that he never sees play because he's too busy doing his job.

We have to get rid of all of the committees and polling - at least as much as is humanly possible. That's a WAY bigger problem than whether or not the third best SEC team deserves to get in because, after all they do travel well.

To piggyback on this, here is the problem with getting worked up over a 3 loss team. College football only has 12 game, and 128 teams. You have very few interconference matcups to make a reasonable determination about how good any team's competition is, particularly between P5 leagues. You don't really know if an 11-1 Big Ten team is really better than a 8-3 Pac 12 team. We can guess, but we don't really know. There really just isn't enough data to make a good comparison among these teams. That's why college football needs automatic bids even more than basketball or other sports.

 

[Begbie_Nole]

Keep it at 4. Pick off the teams from the Big 12.

Big 12 falling apart would be very bad for the ACC. Were very competitive with the other conferences right now. Best we could get is WV. SEC/PAC/BIG would get OU, OSU, Texas

 

[Begbie_Nole]

I think it is very simple.

I think you go to an eight-team playoff with an automatic bid for each of the Power Five conferences plus three at-large bids.

That would settle everything down because it would disincentivize all of these conferences from raiding each other. It would also encourage much better out of conference match ups because even if you lose those games you can still make the playoff by winning your conference.

It would actually serve to incentivize better out of conference games - which is good for everyone.


Such a system would also make these conference championship games de facto playoff games and therefore would become must-see TV.

All true

 

[Pitt79]

Again, automatic bids would be unfair. Say the ACC coastal champ has 3 losses but beats the Atlantic champ with 0 losses. Are you telling me that 3 loss team should get an automatic bid?

I would go with automatic bids providing that Conference Champ has no more than one loss.

Why is it that you don't want to reward a 3 loss team that goes to a neutral site and beats a likely top 5, unbeaten team on national TV? I say a team that does that has just won the 1st round of the playoffs and deserves to move on. It's like you're upset that Chelsea Clinton was replaced by some unknown kid at her mom's foundation who did a better job than her, your upset if a blue blood is beaten and want something in place to keep them at the head of the line even when they lose?

 

[Pitt79]

You have very few interconference matcups to make a reasonable determination about how good any team's competition is, particularly between P5 leagues. You don't really know if an 11-1 Big Ten team is really better than a 8-3 Pac 12 team. We can guess, but we don't really know. There really just isn't enough data to make a good comparison among these teams. That's why college football needs automatic bids even more than basketball or other sports.

And if you let the 5 champs in, they deserve it, because they won a game that says they deserve it, and it's 5 playoff spots that we don't need Condeleeza Rice to advise us about.

 

[4Mark_Marty]

Again, automatic bids would be unfair. Say the ACC coastal champ has 3 losses but beats the Atlantic champ with 0 losses. Are you telling me that 3 loss team should get an automatic bid?

I would go with automatic bids providing that Conference Champ has no more than one loss.

You're wrong here WBR. Happens in the NFL all the time. You win you get in. It's the exception that you are talking about. If a 9-3 Nebraska beats Ohio state in the BIG championship, then they deserve to get in BECAUSE THEY WON ON THE FIELD!!!

 

[QuitCallingMeWanny]

and let's be real a 3 loss conference champion would be rare, hell there has been teams under 500 getting into the NFL playoffs, which is rare as well

If it happens it happens

 

[Jpripper88]

and let's be real a 3 loss conference champion would be rare, hell there has been teams under 500 getting into the NFL playoffs, which is rare as well

If it happens it happens

Even rarer that they beat a sure fire playoff at large team like a P5 undefeated. I think it has only happened once. 10-3 (but ranked #13) KSU beat 12-0 #1 OU.

 

[redbyrds]

I think it is very simple.

I think you go to an eight-team playoff with an automatic bid for each of the Power Five conferences plus three at-large bids.

That would settle everything down because it would disincentivize all of these conferences from raiding each other. It would also encourage much better out of conference match ups because even if you lose those games you can still make the playoff by winning your conference.

It would actually serve to incentivize better out of conference games - which is good for everyone.

The three at-large bids would also leave some room for independents like Notre Dame and BYU, little guys like Houston and Boise State, and the second best teams in very strong conferences like maybe Michigan this year, for example.

Such a system would also make these conference championship games de facto playoff games and therefore would become must-see TV.

I have heard all of the arguments against the system I just described but quite frankly, none of them hold up to scrutiny. This is definitely the best way to go and would literally be the single best thing that has ever happened to college football.

 

[redbyrds]

The biggest advantage of going to the automatic bid system is it would take a lot of the subjectivity out of the whole process.

That is my primary interest in all of this – cleansing the sport of it's bullshit.

I don't want committees full of "experts" like Condoleezza Rice, for example, determining who gets to play in the playoff and who doesn't. And I certainly don't want some know–nothing sports writer making that determination.

Rather, it should be.decided on the field by the teams that earn those bids – just like it is done in every other sport and at every other level of that sport.

I just cannot believe that in the year 2016 we are still making major decisions based on public opinion polling and who the television networks prefer; or which teams' fans are most likely to attend a game.

That seems incredibly backwards for the time.

Most likely it would need to be set up to guarantee at least one non Power 5 team gain access to the 8 team playoff so long as they end up in the Top 12 or 15 in rankings.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

I'm OK with some minimum criteria for conference champions – as long as it applies to everyone.

I'm just trying to get voting out of determining the champion as much as possible.

It really doesn't matter to me if it's Barry Alvarez doing the voting or Condoleezza Rice. I don't want opinions determining the champion on any level. That's what rules are for – clearly established rules.

Now, I realize that because of the size of college football, you can't get voting entirely out of the process. I accept that. However, I want voting as much out of the process as humanly possible.

The more objective and transparent the criteria the better. With private votes you have less transparency and more subjectivity and that is just not a good way to go and we have seen the countless reasons why how many times over the years?

 

[pittdan77]

The second one doesn't matter. How the Big 12 determines its champion would not affect the other conferences. Each conference would have an automatic bid, so there is no chance of them losing that spot. The Big 12 not having a title game would not hurt the other leagues. It would not take away the automatic bid from the other conferences, and it would not help the Big 12 to get an at large bid.

Sure it does. Why would a conference put it's best team through another game with the potential for an upset when one conference isn't going to bother? With a bigger pool of playoff teams, the Big 12 could tip the scales. Especially if they end up with two one loss teams, again and the lesser is called Texas or Oklahoma.

 

[Pitt79]

Sure it does. Why would a conference put it's best team through another game with the potential for an upset when one conference isn't going to bother? With a bigger pool of playoff teams, the Big 12 could tip the scales. Especially if they end up with two one loss teams, again and the lesser is called Texas or Oklahoma.

Make a Championship game mandatory then. Why wouldn't a conference put it's best team through another game with the potential for an upset when they could get TV money and fill a stadium for a championship game? WHO CARES if the "best team" loses? Or is UPSET? UPSETS are the greatest moments in sports. If you so BEST then JUST WIN THE F'n GAME! Simple as that.

You people crack me up the way you are whining because you want to make sure the rich get richer and stay richer, and you want to protect the big power, blue blood programs to make sure nobody can take their spots in the playoffs, EVEN IF THEY LOSE A CHAMPIONSHIP GAME.

You want a subjective system, so if some year 9-3 Pitt upsets 12-0 Clemson in an ACC title game, you are fighting hard to make sure the victory doesn't benefit the team that won and advance the team that lost to the playoff.

 

[pittdan77]

Make a Championship game mandatory then. Why wouldn't a conference put it's best team through another game with the potential for an upset when they could get TV money and fill a stadium for a championship game? WHO CARES if the "best team" loses? Or is UPSET? UPSETS are the greatest moments in sports. If you so BEST then JUST WIN THE F'n GAME! Simple as that.

You people crack me up the way you are whining because you want to make sure the rich get richer and stay richer, and you want to protect the big power, blue blood programs to make sure nobody can take their spots in the playoffs, EVEN IF THEY LOSE A CHAMPIONSHIP GAME.

You want a subjective system, so if some year 9-3 Pitt upsets 12-0 Clemson in an ACC title game, you are fighting hard to make sure the victory doesn't benefit the team that won and advance the team that lost to the playoff.

I think you're confusing my explanation on why I don't like and eight team playoff if the conferences don't change with my position on the playoff itself.

I'd prefer a larger than 8 team system, personally. I just see problems with eight teams and the subjective politics of CFB. Without clear, defined rules for who makes the playoff and how, its still ripe with arguments about fan base travel habits and tradition and all of the other BS reasons we hear about today.

Any system that doesn't have a clear way of determining who is in and who is out, ultimately hurts Pitt and other mid level schools.

 

[Pitt79]

I think you're confusing my explanation on why I don't like and eight team playoff if the conferences don't change with my position on the playoff itself.

I'd prefer a larger than 8 team system, personally. I just see problems with eight teams and the subjective politics of CFB. Without clear, defined rules for who makes the playoff and how, its still ripe with arguments about fan base travel habits and tradition and all of the other BS reasons we hear about today.

Any system that doesn't have a clear way of determining who is in and who is out, ultimately hurts Pitt and other mid level schools.

If you have every power 5 conference have a championship game, you basically end up with a 13 team playoff. And potentially some of the championship game losers, could still make the playoff if they are really ALL THAT. So those that would cry for an Alabama who lost in the SEC title game that it's "not fair", that they are left out, would be happy that potentially their blue blood "privilege" could keep them in.

 

[topdecktiger]

Sure it does. Why would a conference put it's best team through another game with the potential for an upset when one conference isn't going to bother? With a bigger pool of playoff teams, the Big 12 could tip the scales. Especially if they end up with two one loss teams, again and the lesser is called Texas or Oklahoma.

You are thinking in terms of the current system, not the hypothetical system we are discussing. In the 5 + 3 format, each P5 conference would have an automatic bid to the playoffs. They get that bid no matter what. Nobody can take it from them. Therefore, it doesn't matter if a conference's best team has to play another game with the potential for an upset. For example, let's say Clemson was 12-0, and was upset by 9-3 Virginia Tech. Well, then Virginia Tech would get the automatic bid to the playoffs. The ACC would not lose its playoffs spot. The ACC would be guaranteed that its champion made the playoffs. Therefore, it doesn't matter if the Big 12 had no championship game, because the Big 12 could not take the ACC's spot.

Now, if you want to talk about the 3 at large bids, it wouldn't matter then either. Let's continue with my hypothetical example. Now, Virginia Tech is in automatically, and you have 12-1 Clemson in line for an at large bid. Now remember, the other P5 champs get in automatically as well, so they aren't competing for those at large bids. Let's just say Ohio St, Washington, Oklahoma, and Alabama were the conference champs. Well, Clemson at 12-1 would not be competing with those teams for a playoff spot. Those teams would get the automatic bids. Clemson would be competing with other 2nd place teams (say, Baylor, Utah, Tennessee, Michigan) for the 3 at large bids. Again, the Big 12 not having a title game doesn't affect this.

However, for the record, the Big 12 is going to have a title game starting in 2017.

 

[pittdan77]

You are thinking in terms of the current system, not the hypothetical system

Okay. I understand.

 

[Mick JaggEER]

As it stands right now it's a beauty contest and ESPiN has too much influence. They have influence over the voters and will always schill for the conferences in which they have a TV contract and/or who brings the viewers (ratings). I want to remove as much "subjectivity as possible and the idea of an auto bid to the conference champions is really appealing to me. Right now there are blue bloods that have to play their way out of the playoff and teams that have to play their way in and that is not right.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

WELL....

an 8 team playoff means you can kiss Notre Dame goodbye as a full ACC member.

And no....they wont be 2-5 every year, either.....

That scenario has always been a pipe dream and was never going to happen anyway.

 

[Pitt79]

As it stands right now it's a beauty contest and ESPiN has too much influence. They have influence over the voters and will always schill for the conferences in which they have a TV contract and/or who brings the viewers (ratings). I want to remove as much "subjectivity as possible and the idea of an auto bid to the conference champions is really appealing to me. Right now there are blue bloods that have to play their way out of the playoff and teams that have to play their way in and that is not right.

JagEER, I assume you're a WVU fan, you're situation this year is a real test case, you're a power 5 conference, not highly ranked at the start, not a blue blood, it would be interesting to see if you guys went say, 12-0 and 'Bama lost their title game or something and went 12-1 and their where other unbeaten locked in. What would happen?