Guesses about what a 2018 class might look like
- Thread starter gary2
- Start date
So hard to predict. You'd have to figure they are totally zeroed in on Zegarowski, Forrester and Kisunas. Is that realistic? Well, as fans you'd surely hope so. Will we do worse? We'll see. I hate guessing on recruits. I sure as heck hope not though, because that would be a real problem.
But if we ended up with Golden, Zegarowski, Forrester and Kisunas, I'd consider that class not as good as we need to be, but not a disaster at all either. Probably better than the 2017 class. Maybe some better players to get us back in NCAA tournament contention by 2019-2020, or maybe not even to the year after that. But not enough for a quicker impact.
Since I doubt seriously that Pitt will become a top 20 team in just a couple of years, I would certainly consider that class a successful one. One to build upon.
I didnt even suggest top 20. Just the possibly of being in tournament contention.
But even a class like the one I mentioned really only has one top 150 type player, Generally speaking, the class would have to overachieve to some extent to get us back into the tournament.
What I really mean is Pitt will have to get back to being respectable before we can expect a really good bunch to come in here. A class like the one mentioned would provide a decent base for the next year. Kind of a building block.
Yeah, that would be a group that seems best they can seem to do/kids they seem to have a reasonable shot at. Perhaps they can pull out a higher end kid. But, as noted, not a disaster type class, but not likely one that lends hope for a team to do anything remarkable.
The quality of the 2018 class will likely be somewhat proportional to the 2016-17 season results; but potentially better than that by being sold to recruits with the rebuilding narrative.
Subsequently, the 2019 recruiting class will be a much harder "rebuilding" sell if the 2017-18 (next) season results prove to be as poor as many expect. If 2017-18 is the disaster predicted, the 2018 class better have been extraordinary or Pitt hoops will likely be pathetic for years to come. The window to save the program is closing quickly with the 2018 class is the key wedge to prevent the window from slamming shut.
Subsequently, the 2019 recruiting class will be a much harder "rebuilding" sell if the 2017-18 (next) season results prove to be as poor as many expect. If 2017-18 is the disaster predicted, the 2018 class better have been extraordinary or Pitt hoops will likely be pathetic for years to come. The window to save the program is closing quickly with the 2018 class is the key wedge to prevent the window from slamming shut.
Good post,
One point that people don't really think out well, is that in reality the incoming frosh and this current class will be Stallings make or break.
Because of the dramatic turnover in the program, the bulk of the roster will be made up from those two classes.
Functionally, minus any complete stud top 20 type kid, no one they would recruit after this class will have any meaningful on court impact before year 4 or 5 of Stallings tenure.
Whether Stallings lasts longer than three, four seasons here will be determined by the kids who take the court in the fall of 2018.
I doubt we end up with Kisunas, Forrester and Zegarowski(more names will emerge), but if we do, I think it along with the 2017 class, provides a foundation moving forward. I think we can get back to being one of the 5-6-7-8-9 teams in the ACC: Being 10-8, 9-9, 8-10 in the league.
We need to there, get lucky with a player or two, then move forward. It is easier to recruit (or should be) coming off a string of NCCA tourneys, impressive ACC tourneys, and decent ACC seeds. We have a ways to go..
I am not counting on it, but am holding out a glimmer of hope that the new staff shake up can help the lock up 4 guys like this and not have to fall back to kids like peace and the guard out west.
I think that class would be extremely mediocre and should signal the need to move on from Stallings. However, I think we will still fall short of that class and Stallings will still be retained.
That class might, at best, allow us to get back to the kind of team we were this past year, which is to say, a bottom 1/3 ACC team, instead of a bottom 2 ACC team.
I think they will. It is easier to recruit four. It was much harder to recruit 10-11.
When I said other players, I meant new names (equal talent level) that have recently emerged like Nichols and Kirkwood. I believe we might also hear the names LLewelyn and Segu.
I think we need to look to Canada and Florida (maybe some other places in the South).We need to get back into NY, NJ and Philly and also hit New England preps. I am not worried about player rankings (24/7 lists several players multiple times at radically different rankings - how can anyone rely on that?) Hopefully our coaches can evaluate talent.
Yes. I would imagine that class would rank somewhere between 40 and 60 overall and 8-12 in the ACC.
A class of Golden, Zegarowski, Forrester and Kisunas would actually be pretty mediocre, probably ranked around #8-#12 in the ACC.
As I read this, I am reminded that where Stallings truly missed his open opportunity was June through November of last year.
At the time, he was a "new" coach, with presumably some new energy. We were a team coming off an NCAA bid, with two all conference players on the roster. And he had TONS of playing time on a pretty good ACC program to sell to some of the high level recruits that he offered.
But during that time frame was when things really took a turn for the worse when Stallings was unable to turn any of this energy into higher-level recruiting. I'm not exactly sure why things didn't go particularly well during this time. And I am still a bit troubled though that the staff felt pretty darn confident that the would land Kamari Lawrence, and were actually telling several folks that they really though they would get him, then not to even end up as one of his three finalists.
So now, we do have a way to go to build back to respectable as you are suggesting. But a year ago, this wasn't quite the case.
I actually think it is easier to recruit coming off of #1 seeds and only having a slot or two to fill to be a #1 seed again than it is to recruit when you have plenty of playing time available.
That is my perspective.
I think it is much harder to recruit when you have been pretty mediocre for your last three seasons (28-26). I think the recruiting after those seasons provides plenty of evidence concerning that.
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Perhaps, but my point is that it was easier this time last year than it is this year coming off the season we just had and they state of things at the moment.
And regardless, I still think the 2017 class (signed before the mass exodus) was indeed a missed opportunity for the staff. With the exception of Carr, they are not a group of recruits one would think appear to be the types around whom we can begin to re-build our success (unless a couple of them perform well above their high school pedigrees.)
Good points. But do you think the overwhelming negativity over the Stallings hire may have Impacted recruiting in a negative manner? Recruits can read the tea leaves. I don't really know. Just asking?
I think it certainly could have. I think the negativity about him at Vandy would have hurt, even if his hiring at Pitt went ho-hum. I think his behavior and reputation over the years and his staff impact it the most.
Let's be clear, Stallings is a guy who had been perceived as an underachiever and a-hole while at Vandy for the past several years and did not maintain a high level staff. The was a ton of negativity around Stallings for years down south and in the SEC. This wasn't just an issue of him not meeting the expectations of Pitt fans after Barnes talked up the impending disaster.
I mean, no real inside info from the staff here, but just from reading the tea leaves going forward we're probably looking at:
Already Signed
Golden - solid player, probably not top 150 caliber but a good four year recruit
Likely Pitt Lean
Zegarowski - top 200 but both Stallings and I really, really like the kid, he's a little short but his shot is pretty and plays on the college level
So that's not the worst place to be in. I actually don't think that we're going to take another center because watching Golden this summer and the offers that we are handing out it seems like the priority after those two players is to land more wing offense but I could be totally wrong there.
Players that we really, really want and have at least some chance with
Jake Forrester
Nate Laszewski
Two totally different 4s but I bet that we would take both if they wanted to come since Forrester is a springy 4/5 and Laszewski is a stretch 3/4. I sincerely hope that we get at least one of the two since they're both legit top 100 prospects.
Total mystery men that we have offered and not heard a lot from but they also have no real leaders so...
Ignas Brazdeikis
Saddiq Bey
A couple of top 100 wings that we have offered and hung around but not really made any ground on. Nobody else really has either though so technically they are still in play. Neither are likely though.
Other priorities with mutual interest but mitigating factors
Lukas Kisunas - Total mystery with this guy, we have offered him but he has literally no recruiting chatter at all and I don't think any offers from anyone else. I really don't see how he and Golden can coexist anyway.
Dwayne Cohill - Nice combo guard who likes us but not as much as the local BigTen team. Pretty much the story of this recruiting class so far.
Amadou Sow - Springy 4/5 who had a nice summer and earned offers from us, Illinois and Cal. Probably in play right now but tough to land those California kids.
Rasir Bolton - Almost certainly our Zegarowski fallback plan but could be a take anyway if we whiff everywhere and make moves before he ends up at a Virginia school.
This is a pretty decent bunch of players on this level and I would be happy to get one of them but they are all longer shots and again, I don't see Kisunas as a take.
Literal no star randos that we fill the class out with like this past one
If we have any of those in this class then we're in trouble.
Realistically if I had to take a total shot in the dark I would think that our class would be Golden, Zegarowski, Laszewski, and Sow and that's an okay class. Probably, as DT points out, that would be about 8th-10th in the conference but also one that we could be happy with. But we need to do at least that to have any chance of being competitive going forward, if we don't then next year's class is almost certainly a bloodbath.
Already Signed
Golden - solid player, probably not top 150 caliber but a good four year recruit
Likely Pitt Lean
Zegarowski - top 200 but both Stallings and I really, really like the kid, he's a little short but his shot is pretty and plays on the college level
So that's not the worst place to be in. I actually don't think that we're going to take another center because watching Golden this summer and the offers that we are handing out it seems like the priority after those two players is to land more wing offense but I could be totally wrong there.
Players that we really, really want and have at least some chance with
Jake Forrester
Nate Laszewski
Two totally different 4s but I bet that we would take both if they wanted to come since Forrester is a springy 4/5 and Laszewski is a stretch 3/4. I sincerely hope that we get at least one of the two since they're both legit top 100 prospects.
Total mystery men that we have offered and not heard a lot from but they also have no real leaders so...
Ignas Brazdeikis
Saddiq Bey
A couple of top 100 wings that we have offered and hung around but not really made any ground on. Nobody else really has either though so technically they are still in play. Neither are likely though.
Other priorities with mutual interest but mitigating factors
Lukas Kisunas - Total mystery with this guy, we have offered him but he has literally no recruiting chatter at all and I don't think any offers from anyone else. I really don't see how he and Golden can coexist anyway.
Dwayne Cohill - Nice combo guard who likes us but not as much as the local BigTen team. Pretty much the story of this recruiting class so far.
Amadou Sow - Springy 4/5 who had a nice summer and earned offers from us, Illinois and Cal. Probably in play right now but tough to land those California kids.
Rasir Bolton - Almost certainly our Zegarowski fallback plan but could be a take anyway if we whiff everywhere and make moves before he ends up at a Virginia school.
This is a pretty decent bunch of players on this level and I would be happy to get one of them but they are all longer shots and again, I don't see Kisunas as a take.
Literal no star randos that we fill the class out with like this past one
If we have any of those in this class then we're in trouble.
Realistically if I had to take a total shot in the dark I would think that our class would be Golden, Zegarowski, Laszewski, and Sow and that's an okay class. Probably, as DT points out, that would be about 8th-10th in the conference but also one that we could be happy with. But we need to do at least that to have any chance of being competitive going forward, if we don't then next year's class is almost certainly a bloodbath.
You know this already, but it is a very, very important note IMO: Golden is not signed. He is only committed. Hopefully he will sign in November before we really get far into the season and then his options are limited, in case we really tank.
Agree with you on that stuff, though, @thirteenNINE . However, I don't see us with a real shot with Laszewski and I don't think Forrester is a legit top 100 player. Maybe 150. I do see Golden as a top 150 kid, but certainly no savior. He should be a solid role player we need, but unfortunately I think Pitt fans are expecting him to be a star and it is unlikely we surround him with enough talent to let him settle into a more complimentary role he could slowly build into after a couple years.
Agree with you on that stuff, though, @thirteenNINE . However, I don't see us with a real shot with Laszewski and I don't think Forrester is a legit top 100 player. Maybe 150. I do see Golden as a top 150 kid, but certainly no savior. He should be a solid role player we need, but unfortunately I think Pitt fans are expecting him to be a star and it is unlikely we surround him with enough talent to let him settle into a more complimentary role he could slowly build into after a couple years.
Oh certainly I just don't see Golden going anywhere unless this class takes a horrible nosedive into Disaster Town and if that happens then we have even bigger problems to worry about.
I like Forrester more than some because I really like his defensive projection on the next level, I think that sort of rangy player who can run and bounce tends to get pushed out of the bottom of the top 100 for some reason in favor of combo guards and spot up shooters who won't have the same impact in all facets of the game. So I like him a little more than you do and Golden a little less but both within the general error bars that you would expect and I'd like to have them both next year.
I don't believe in "must gets" or anything like that.
But if we don't land Zegarowski and/or Forrester, I'll really begin to have the impression that something is amiss.
I don't think it is likely, but I wouldn't say impossible. Now, commits after 11/16? I could see us losing those guys. Class has to be locked up in November and then just hang on and hold them to LOI.
Why? He had a guy in a LOI this year and let him out. Stallings has plenty of problems, and forcing guys to play here or lose eligibility doesn't need to be added to the list.
You obviously have to let them out nowadays, but you still have a lot more leverage if you get them signed. Plus, a lot of schools are going to pretty much back off non-top 100 kids who are signed. Not worth the time.
This fall is crucial enough on its own. If Golden is the best player in the class, that's a very bad sign.
That's the last that I can recall. Before Griffin, there was Jason Matthews.
Darin Morningstar went to high school in Washington and Rich Carrigan was from Nevada.
