Guesses about what a 2018 class might look like

[whirlybird optio]

Got it backward! LOL

For some reason I thought he was from LA. Oh well. I knew he finished up at Cal, just firgured he was going home.

Danny Griffin was a bit before my time. Came across an article about the entire 89 class not qualifying...oh if only there was a Pantherlair then.

 

[DT_PITT]

For some reason I thought he was from LA. Oh well. I knew he finished up at Cal, just firgured he was going home.

Danny Griffin was a bit before my time. Came across an article about the entire 89 class not qualifying...oh if only there was a Pantherlair then.

Dunkin' Danny Griffin from Crenshaw High. Ended up at UNLV and never really did anything. I think I read he's on the UConn staff now.

 

[gary2]

Dunkin' Danny Griffin from Crenshaw High. Ended up at UNLV and never really did anything. I think I read he's on the UConn staff now.

Wasn't Pitt in the running for the MacLean kid that went to UCLA?

 

[DT_PITT]

Wasn't Pitt in the running for the MacLean kid that went to UCLA?

Very much so, but Evans couldn't close. MacLean was from Semi Valley. Tough to see a Valley Guy going to the Burgh!

 

[gmandingo]

I mean, no real inside info from the staff here, but just from reading the tea leaves going forward we're probably looking at:

Already Signed

Golden - solid player, probably not top 150 caliber but a good four year recruit

Likely Pitt Lean

Zegarowski - top 200 but both Stallings and I really, really like the kid, he's a little short but his shot is pretty and plays on the college level

So that's not the worst place to be in. I actually don't think that we're going to take another center because watching Golden this summer and the offers that we are handing out it seems like the priority after those two players is to land more wing offense but I could be totally wrong there.

Players that we really, really want and have at least some chance with

Jake Forrester
Nate Laszewski

Two totally different 4s but I bet that we would take both if they wanted to come since Forrester is a springy 4/5 and Laszewski is a stretch 3/4. I sincerely hope that we get at least one of the two since they're both legit top 100 prospects.

Total mystery men that we have offered and not heard a lot from but they also have no real leaders so...

Ignas Brazdeikis
Saddiq Bey

A couple of top 100 wings that we have offered and hung around but not really made any ground on. Nobody else really has either though so technically they are still in play. Neither are likely though.

Other priorities with mutual interest but mitigating factors

Lukas Kisunas - Total mystery with this guy, we have offered him but he has literally no recruiting chatter at all and I don't think any offers from anyone else. I really don't see how he and Golden can coexist anyway.

Dwayne Cohill - Nice combo guard who likes us but not as much as the local BigTen team. Pretty much the story of this recruiting class so far.

Amadou Sow - Springy 4/5 who had a nice summer and earned offers from us, Illinois and Cal. Probably in play right now but tough to land those California kids.

Rasir Bolton - Almost certainly our Zegarowski fallback plan but could be a take anyway if we whiff everywhere and make moves before he ends up at a Virginia school.

This is a pretty decent bunch of players on this level and I would be happy to get one of them but they are all longer shots and again, I don't see Kisunas as a take.

Literal no star randos that we fill the class out with like this past one

If we have any of those in this class then we're in trouble.

Realistically if I had to take a total shot in the dark I would think that our class would be Golden, Zegarowski, Laszewski, and Sow and that's an okay class. Probably, as DT points out, that would be about 8th-10th in the conference but also one that we could be happy with. But we need to do at least that to have any chance of being competitive going forward, if we don't then next year's class is almost certainly a bloodbath.

Sow trains/plays down the road from me with Prolific in Napa. Not a Cali kid but international big from Mali. We have a legitimate shot. I will try and check one of his games and talk up Pitt is lit H2P

 

[Jpripper88]

@gary2 so where do you think that class would rank nationally and in the ACC? Do you think that is better than mediocre/average?

 

[Gorachee]

That's the last that I can recall. Before Griffin, there was Jason Matthews.

Darin Morningstar went to high school in Washington and Rich Carrigan was from Nevada.

Brett Crawford was before Matthews. He never played at Pitt. He scored a lot of points at US International. I can't remember where Marlon Rhymes was from. He came from a western JUCO but it might have been in Arizona.

 

[AvonBarksdale]

Ohio State just took a 4-star SG within the last week or so. So Cohill to Columbus isn't really a done deal, in my eyes. Jeenathan Williams and Zach Scott are a couple names I've been keeping an eye on. I think those are realistic possibilities. In my opinion, the Iggy train has left the station.

 

[thirteenNINE]

Ohio State just took a 4-star SG within the last week or so. So Cohill to Columbus isn't really a done deal, in my eyes. Jeenathan Williams and Zach Scott are a couple names I've been keeping an eye on. I think those are realistic possibilities. In my opinion, the Iggy train has left the station.

Good news about Williams, I really like him but it seems like we had so much ground to make up on Marquette and Syracuse.

As for Ohio State, they have even more holes than we do. Everyone is a take for them.

 

[goodtymes]

https://minnesota.rivals.com/news/rivals150-guard-zegarowski-reciprocates-gopher-interest

This certainly doesn't sound good...

 

[Protes]

I mean, no real inside info from the staff here, but just from reading the tea leaves going forward we're probably looking at:

Already Signed

Golden - solid player, probably not top 150 caliber but a good four year recruit

Likely Pitt Lean

Zegarowski - top 200 but both Stallings and I really, really like the kid, he's a little short but his shot is pretty and plays on the college level

So that's not the worst place to be in. I actually don't think that we're going to take another center because watching Golden this summer and the offers that we are handing out it seems like the priority after those two players is to land more wing offense but I could be totally wrong there.

Players that we really, really want and have at least some chance with

Jake Forrester
Nate Laszewski

Two totally different 4s but I bet that we would take both if they wanted to come since Forrester is a springy 4/5 and Laszewski is a stretch 3/4. I sincerely hope that we get at least one of the two since they're both legit top 100 prospects.

Total mystery men that we have offered and not heard a lot from but they also have no real leaders so...

Ignas Brazdeikis
Saddiq Bey

A couple of top 100 wings that we have offered and hung around but not really made any ground on. Nobody else really has either though so technically they are still in play. Neither are likely though.

Other priorities with mutual interest but mitigating factors

Lukas Kisunas - Total mystery with this guy, we have offered him but he has literally no recruiting chatter at all and I don't think any offers from anyone else. I really don't see how he and Golden can coexist anyway.

Dwayne Cohill - Nice combo guard who likes us but not as much as the local BigTen team. Pretty much the story of this recruiting class so far.

Amadou Sow - Springy 4/5 who had a nice summer and earned offers from us, Illinois and Cal. Probably in play right now but tough to land those California kids.

I mean, no real inside info from the staff here, but just from reading the tea leaves going forward we're probably looking at:

Already Signed

Golden - solid player, probably not top 150 caliber but a good four year recruit

Likely Pitt Lean

Zegarowski - top 200 but both Stallings and I really, really like the kid, he's a little short but his shot is pretty and plays on the college level

So that's not the worst place to be in. I actually don't think that we're going to take another center because watching Golden this summer and the offers that we are handing out it seems like the priority after those two players is to land more wing offense but I could be totally wrong there.

Players that we really, really want and have at least some chance with

Jake Forrester
Nate Laszewski

Two totally different 4s but I bet that we would take both if they wanted to come since Forrester is a springy 4/5 and Laszewski is a stretch 3/4. I sincerely hope that we get at least one of the two since they're both legit top 100 prospects.

Total mystery men that we have offered and not heard a lot from but they also have no real leaders so...

Ignas Brazdeikis
Saddiq Bey

A couple of top 100 wings that we have offered and hung around but not really made any ground on. Nobody else really has either though so technically they are still in play. Neither are likely though.

Other priorities with mutual interest but mitigating factors

Lukas Kisunas - Total mystery with this guy, we have offered him but he has literally no recruiting chatter at all and I don't think any offers from anyone else. I really don't see how he and Golden can coexist anyway.

Dwayne Cohill - Nice combo guard who likes us but not as much as the local BigTen team. Pretty much the story of this recruiting class so far.

Amadou Sow - Springy 4/5 who had a nice summer and earned offers from us, Illinois and Cal. Probably in play right now but tough to land those California kids.

Rasir Bolton - Almost certainly our Zegarowski fallback plan but could be a take anyway if we whiff everywhere and make moves before he ends up at a Virginia school.

This is a pretty decent bunch of players on this level and I would be happy to get one of them but they are all longer shots and again, I don't see Kisunas as a take.

Literal no star randos that we fill the class out with like this past one

If we have any of those in this class then we're in trouble.

Realistically if I had to take a total shot in the dark I would think that our class would be Golden, Zegarowski, Laszewski, and Sow and that's an okay class. Probably, as DT points out, that would be about 8th-10th in the conference but also one that we could be happy with. But we need to do at least that to have any chance of being competitive going forward, if we don't then next year's class is almost certainly a bloodbath.

Rasir Bolton - Almost certainly our Zegarowski fallback plan but could be a take anyway if we whiff everywhere and make moves before he ends up at a Virginia school.

This is a pretty decent bunch of players on this level and I would be happy to get one of them but they are all longer shots and again, I don't see Kisunas as a take.

Literal no star randos that we fill the class out with like this past one

If we have any of those in this class then we're in trouble.

Realistically if I had to take a total shot in the dark I would think that our class would be Golden, Zegarowski, Laszewski, and Sow and that's an okay class. Probably, as DT points out, that would be about 8th-10th in the conference but also one that we could be happy with. But we need to do at least that to have any chance of being competitive going forward, if we don't then next year's class is almost certainly a bloodbath.

Bolton committed to State Penn tonight.

 

[thirteenNINE]

https://minnesota.rivals.com/news/rivals150-guard-zegarowski-reciprocates-gopher-interest

This certainly doesn't sound good...

Wow, that sounds horrifically bad actually.

 

[Jpripper88]

Wow, that sounds horrifically bad actually.

Care to elaborate?

 

[sherepower]

Care to elaborate?

Kid was supposed to really like Pitt a couple of weeks ago. Now mentions 5 or 6 schools who are recruiting him the hardest. Yet, no mention of Pitt lol

Geez us. If it wasn't so sad. It would be comical at this point. Throw in the fact we lost a recruit to Ped st and its getting scary

 

[Jpripper88]

I think that class would be extremely mediocre and should signal the need to move on from Stallings. However, I think we will still fall short of that class and Stallings will still be retained.

That class might, at best, allow us to get back to the kind of team we were this past year, which is to say, a bottom 1/3 ACC team, instead of a bottom 2 ACC team.

And the Zegarowski development may be the first shoe dropping in the class falling even below this very mediocre expectation.

 

[DiehardPanther]

If he does not have 3 good recruits come the November Signing Period, then you might as well get a countdown clock out.

 

[Jpripper88]

If he does not have 3 good recruits come the November Signing Period, then you might as well get a countdown clock out.

Even then, I think he should have at least one clear top 100 player plus Golden. I'd be ok with two at that point if they are signed and higher talent, but the way things look now, I don't even know if we are involved (with even a reasonable shot to land them) with anyone who would fit that criteria.

 

[thirteenNINE]

Care to elaborate?

Yeah, the short of it is that Stallings overtly put all of his eggs into the Zegarowski basket at the guard before this kid was even a ranked recruit. He expressly told him that he was the only point that we were looking at in this class and then we followed through by backing off legit top 150 guys like Bolton (who committed to PSU). To then have Zegarowski play really well over the summer and then give an interview (and mind, these interviews are almost always slanted to be sure) where he doesn't even mention Pitt in this top 6 is nearly catastrophic. There is no fallback plan anymore in the backcourt so if we miss on Zegarowski you can probably just light this recruiting class on fire.

Which would be the second one in a row.

 

[DiehardPanther]

Amadou Sow is a 6-9 225lb PF/C who has us in his Top 3. He has 12 offers and his tape reminds you of Talib Zanna.

 

[levance2]

If he does not have 3 good recruits come the November Signing Period, then you might as well get a countdown clock out.

That clock has been ticking for quite a while already.

 

[Jpripper88]

Amadou Sow is a 6-9 225lb PF/C who has us in his Top 3. He has 12 offers and his tape reminds you of Talib Zanna.

He was mentioned earlier by thirteennine, but he is not a top prospect or a guy we should count on quickly, even if we are able to get him. And I am not sure about being "in his Top 3" as much as we are one of his top 3 offers. We just contacted him this month.

 

[gary2]

He was mentioned earlier by thirteennine, but he is not a top prospect or a guy we should count on quickly, even if we are able to get him. And I am not sure about being "in his Top 3" as much as we are one of his top 3 offers. We just contacted him this month.

24/7 has him listed at # 223 - Why are were wasting our time? - Need to concentrate on getting Moses Brown

A national bb writer once said about Dixon: one of his best attributes is that he doesn't waste time on players he knows he is not going to get. We need to get back to that.

I would accept a verbal from Sow immediately.

Thamba (# 217) too. They are just the kind of physical presences that we need.

 

[Jpripper88]

24/7 has him listed at # 223 - Why are were wasting our time? - Need to concentrate on getting Moses Brown

A national bb writer once said about Dixon: one of his best attributes is that he doesn't waste time on players he knows he is not going to get. We need to get back to that.

I would accept a verbal from Sow immediately.

OK. That wouldn't move the needle much, though. He has some potential, but he better be your 4th or 5th (knowing we probably won't take 5) best recruit in this class. If our class is Golden, Sow, and someone similarly ranked to those 2, we are in really, really bad shape moving forward.

 

[whirlybird optio]

24/7 has him listed at # 223 - Why are were wasting our time? - Need to concentrate on getting Moses Brown

A national bb writer once said about Dixon: one of his best attributes is that he doesn't waste time on players he knows he is not going to get. We need to get back to that.

I would accept a verbal from Sow immediately.

We aren't making the tournament with that sort of talent level, which is more or less where the 2017 class is absent Carr (who is more in the 150 range).

Given the state of the program, I guess I would accept the verbal too and hope lightning strikes. But if the first two recruits of 2018 are Golden and Sow..does anyone really think those 2 talents (and I guess Malik Ellison) and the 2017 group is an NCAA team in 2018?

 

[Jpripper88]

We aren't making the tournament with that sort of talent level, which is more or less where the 2017 class is absent Carr (who is more in the 150 range).

Given the state of the program, I guess I would accept the verbal too and hope lightning strikes. But if the first two recruits of 2018 are Golden and Sow..does anyone really think those 2 talents (and I guess Malik Ellison) and the 2017 group is an NCAA team in 2018?

I'd expect the ceiling to be last year's team, with that kind of group. Best I could see is 5 ACC wins and .500 record.

 

[gary2]

OK. That wouldn't move the needle much, though. He has some potential, but he better be your 4th or 5th (knowing we probably won't take 5) best recruit in this class. If our class is Golden, Sow, and someone similarly ranked to those 2, we are in really, really bad shape moving forward.

When recruiting ranking are ranking a kid that has been prominent since their freshman or sophomore year, they probably are fairly accurate. When they are ranking a kid that started to play basketball late or came over from a foreign country, less so(see my post on Marek Dolezaj). If they are ranking a kid from a small, fairly unknown high school or someone that has not played for a prominent team on the AAU circuit, you get dubious ranking as well.

You need to most trust your coaches talent evaluation, to do anything else is just foolish.

 

[Jpripper88]

When recruiting ranking are ranking a kid that has been prominent since their freshman or sophomore year, they probably are fairly accurate. When they are ranking a kid that started to play basketball late or came over from a foreign country, less so. If they are ranking a kid from a small, fairly unknown high school or someone that has not played for a prominent team on the AAU circuit, you get dubious ranking as well.

You need to most trust your coaches talent evaluation, to do anything else is just foolish.

"You need to most trust your coaches talent evaluation"

Why? What has Kevin Stallings proven there? I would agree if you said to follow the offers of many coaches to a better evaluation, but then, in this case, you would only have a few P6 offers to lean on. And I think a lot of us he tried to look at what is out there on him and get a better picture. It looks like he has some athletic qualities and potential, but is a long way from being an impact player.

Sow looks like he could develop into a role starter like Zanna, after a few years in a program. Cool. Good to have some of those guys. For 2017 and early 2018 it looks like we will have some of those guys. However, it looks like the rest will be even bigger projects and none really seem to have the potential to be much better than that. That is worrisome. That results in very, very bad to mediocre results. That does not lead to NCAA Tournament bids.

Heck, let's say Sow is EXACTLY Talib Zanna. That means, we need to wait until 20-21 before he is a capable rotation player and 21-22 before he is a solid role starter. Our program is so, so, so far below the talent level needed, that is not going to do the job. Even if you move that progression up one full year, because the talent is so thin right now, we still can't afford to wait that long. That would mean at least 4 years of Stallings before there was any impact. Do you think he can survive that?

 

[gary2]

"You need to most trust your coaches talent evaluation"

Why? What has Kevin Stallings proven there? I would agree if you said to follow the offers of many coaches to a better evaluation, but then, in this case, you would only have a few P6 offers to lean on. And I think a lot of us he tried to look at what is out there on him and get a better picture. It looks like he has some athletic qualities and potential, but is a long way from being an impact player.

Sow looks like he could develop into a role starter like Zanna, after a few years in a program. Cool. Good to have some of those guys. For 2017 and early 2018 it looks like we will have some of those guys. However, it looks like the rest will be even bigger projects and none really seem to have the potential to be much better than that. That is worrisome. That results in very, very bad to mediocre results. That does not lead to NCAA Tournament bids.

Heck, let's say Sow is EXACTLY Talib Zanna. That means, we need to wait until 20-21 before he is a capable rotation player and 21-22 before he is a solid role starter. Our program is so, so, so far below the talent level needed, that is not going to do the job. Even if you move that progression up one full year, because the talent is so thin right now, we still can't afford to wait that long. That would mean at least 4 years of Stallings before there was any impact. Do you think he can survive that?

We should be ecstatic with every Talib Zanna we recruit. That is the realistic path back.

When (after years of poor recruiting) your talent level has bottomed out, you have 2 choices: 1- Attempt to patch what you have and remain marginally competitive or 2- Accept missing the tournament for a few years as you rebuild a foundation - discard the chaff - bring in players and keep bringing in players until you have some. Hopefully you are right in player evaluation more often than not.

Sorry - We are Pitt - Outside of a Rick Stansbury type there is no quick fix for what was allowed to have happened since we entered the ACC. Anyone expecting an influx of top 50, impact players is foolish beyond belief.

You want Sean Miller, Darrell Porter, Demetrious Gore, Jerome Lane and Charles Smith?
Brian Shorter, Bobby Martin. Jason Mathews? Mobley, McNeal?

You will need to do a lot more than hire a Pat Skerry as a recruiter.

If you are Pitt and you want those kind of players, you know what you need to do to get them.

 

[Jpripper88]

We should be ecstatic with every Talib Zanna we recruit. That is the realistic path back.

When (after years of poor recruiting) your talent level has bottomed out, you have 2 choices: 1- Attempt to patch what you have and remain marginally competitive or 2- Accept missing the tournament for a few years as you rebuild a foundation - discard the chaff - bring in players and keep bringing in players until you have some. Hopefully you are right in player evaluation more often than not.

Sorry - We are Pitt - Outside of a Rick Stansbury type there is no quick fix for what was allowed to have happened since we entered the ACC. Anyone expecting an influx of top 50, impact players is foolish beyond belief.

"We should be ecstatic with ever Talib Zanna we recruit."

Are you kidding me? Even if you hit every recruit as a Talib Zanna development contributor, you still would be nothing more than a decent team who scratches their way into the NCAAT and has no real shot at a conference championship or Final Four. Is that our goal?

More realistically, you hope that for every Talib Zanna type you recruit, you hit on 50% being as good as Talib Zanna, but you wait for it for 3 years. Our coach will be fired if he has to wait 3 years to see if he ends up with a few solid role players.

I mean, you honestly expect us to build back into a consistent NCAAT program by our best recruiting being project guys, who we hope hit, that can be role players after 3 years in the system? And in the meantime we lose and have absolutely 0 chance of the NCAAT for 4 years, including, at least, one year where we legitimately may not win a conference game?

I mean, be bullish on Stallings, if you want. However, you can't honestly think these are the type of recruiting results which will help him keep his job and build the program into a consistent NCAAT team, can you?

BTW, no one is talking about or expecting top 50 recruits. However, almost ALL of our recruits should be solid 150 guys and several in the top 100. Legitimate prospects who are not certain projects who need lots of development. In fact, you only have the ability to mold the latter, if you are landing the former.

 

[gary2]

"We should be ecstatic with ever Talib Zanna we recruit."

Are you kidding me? Even if you hit every recruit as a Talib Zanna development contributor, you still would be nothing more than a decent team who scratches their way into the NCAAT and has no real shot at a conference championship or Final Four. Is that our goal?

More realistically, you hope that for every Talib Zanna type you recruit, you hit on 50% being as good as Talib Zanna, but you wait for it for 3 years. Our coach will be fired if he has to wait 3 years to see if he ends up with a few solid role players.

I mean, you honestly expect us to build back into a consistent NCAAT program by our best recruiting being project guys, who we hope hit, that can be role players after 3 years in the system? And in the meantime we lose and have absolutely 0 chance of the NCAAT for 4 years, including, at least, one year where we legitimately may not win a conference game?

I mean, be bullish on Stallings, if you want. However, you can't honestly think these are the type of recruiting results which will help him keep his job and build the program into a consistent NCAAT team, can you?

BTW, no one is talking about or expecting top 50 recruits. However, almost ALL of our recruits should be solid 150 guys and several in the top 100. Legitimate prospects who are not certain projects who need lots of development. In fact, you only have the ability to mold the latter, if you are landing the former.

24/7 gave Zanna a rating of 0.9268 and listed him as # 129 nat.comp.

I will gladly take all the Talib Zannas I can get.

We are Pitt - There is no quick fix - Get used to it - Building a foundation from scratch takes time.

 

[gary2]

Who are the greatest players from the Howland/Dixon era? I am sure I will miss some.

Knight - Krauser - Fields - Gibbs - J.Robinson - Wanamaker - Woodall
Young - Patterson - Artis - Zanna - Page - J.Brown - N.Robinson - G.Brown
Taft - Gray - Adams - Blair - Troutman

How many of these players were recruited by UConn, Syr, Louis, UNC or Duke of college bb?

We were never successful by out recruiting our opponents. What makes anybody think that should be the case now?

 

[whirlybird optio]

Who are the greatest players from the Howland/Dixon era? I am sure I will miss some.

Knight - Krauser - Fields - Gibbs - J.Robinson - Wanamaker - Woodall
Young - Patterson - Artis - Zanna - Page - J.Brown - N.Robinson - G.Brown
Taft - Gray - Adams - Blair - Troutman

How many of these players were recruited by UConn, Syr, Louis, UNC or Duke of college bb?

We were never successful by out recruiting our opponents. What makes anybody think that should be the case now?

Pitt's success was built on two main foundations:

1) Superior coaching (this is gone)

2) hitting on an insane amount of 75-200 level recruits. I don't mean simply signing them, but having those players consistently develop into contributors, and often, stars. (This is extremely hard to do, and frankly, was due in large part to the coaching).


So..where does that leave us now? Not good. It's why I was hoping an "unshackled" Stallings could simply recruit his way to the Tournament, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

 

[gary2]

Pitt's success was built on two main foundations:

1) Superior coaching (this is gone)

2) hitting on an insane amount of 75-200 level recruits. I don't mean simply signing them, but having those players consistently develop into contributors, and often, stars. (This is extremely hard to do, and frankly, was due in large part to the coaching).


So..where does that leave us now? Not good. It's why I was hoping an "unshackled" Stallings could simply recruit his way to the Tournament, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

It is hard to recruit at Pitt. Howland felt that to be the case and the ACC Dixon found it out to be true.

We are not a blue blood. Our long term tradition is not great. We don't currently pay. We have no intrinsic recruiting territory. There are no climate advantages. We are not just one step removed from being an Ivy League institution. We are not the marquee team of our league

We do play in a great league and we do get great exposure. We do reside in a great city.

Stallings (and my guess most other coaches) will never out recruit most ACC schools:

Duke, UNC, Louis, Syr, FSU, Miami, NC St and ND. These schools have built in advantages or cheat. Some both.

Stallings (or anyone else) has little choice but to go back to our old formula. Play 21 to 23 year olds against their newbies. It is our best chance to win.

Because little foundation was present on Stallings arrival that is going to take some time.

It sucks hearing you have to wait. People want instant gratification. Sorry, there is no quick fix.

PS: I know many on this board think Dixon is John Wooden and Stallings is Darrell Porter. I guess everyone is entitled to an opinion.

 

[whirlybird optio]

It is hard to recruit at Pitt. Howland felt that to be the case and the ACC Dixon found it out to be true.

We are not a blue blood. Our long term tradition is not great. We don't currently pay. We have no intrinsic recruiting territory. There are no climate advantages. We are not just one step removed from being an Ivy League institution. We are not the marquee team of our league

We do play in a great league and we do get great exposure. We do reside in a great city.

Stallings (and my guess most other coaches) will never out recruit most ACC schools:

Duke, UNC, Louis, Syr, FSU, Miami, NC St and ND. These schools have built in advantages or cheat. Some both.

Stallings (or anyone else) has little choice but to go back to our old formula. Play 21 to 23 year olds against their newbies. It is our best chance to win.

Because little foundation was present on Stallings arrival that is going to take some time.

It sucks hearing you have to wait. People want instant gratification. Sorry, there is no quick fix.

PS: I know many on this board think Dixon is John Wooden and Stallings is Darrell Porter. I guess everyone is entitled to an opinion.

3 years is not an instant gratification. It's more than reasonable.

 

[whirlybird optio]

It is hard to recruit at Pitt. Howland felt that to be the case and the ACC Dixon found it out to be true.

We are not a blue blood. Our long term tradition is not great. We don't currently pay. We have no intrinsic recruiting territory. There are no climate advantages. We are not just one step removed from being an Ivy League institution. We are not the marquee team of our league

We do play in a great league and we do get great exposure. We do reside in a great city.

Stallings (and my guess most other coaches) will never out recruit most ACC schools:

Duke, UNC, Louis, Syr, FSU, Miami, NC St and ND. These schools have built in advantages or cheat. Some both.

Stallings (or anyone else) has little choice but to go back to our old formula. Play 21 to 23 year olds against their newbies. It is our best chance to win.

Because little foundation was present on Stallings arrival that is going to take some time.

It sucks hearing you have to wait. People want instant gratification. Sorry, there is no quick fix.

PS: I know many on this board think Dixon is John Wooden and Stallings is Darrell Porter. I guess everyone is entitled to an opinion.

will we ever recruit like a blue blood, no. Are there better coaches out there who can recruit better than KS has shown so far at Pitt, I think so.

I just don't think KS gets to wait until the 2017 and 2018 classes are 23 year olds to expect tournament births. That's nuts.

 

[Jpripper88]

24/7 gave Zanna a rating of 0.9268 and listed him as # 129 nat.comp.

I will gladly take all the Talib Zannas I can get.

We are Pitt - There is no quick fix - Get used to it - Building a foundation from scratch takes time.

24/7 wasn't even around then, so no, no, no they didn't give him ANY rating. They have a composite formula that aggregates. In Zanna's case, it was entirely based on a Scout ranking. No one else had him close to the #64 ranking Scout gave him.

However, more than anything, the difference is the ability to contribute. Kevin Stallings doesn't have 4 years to wait for production. He doesn't even have 3 years, even if the ceiling is Talib Zanna. The only way he would have that is if he also brought in guys who were immediately ready to contribute. He hasn't and really isn't involved with those types of players.

If Talib Zanna (again, the BEST case and maybe a 50% hit rate) are the best or 2nd best players in his classes, he is gone. No one in their right mind can think he survives if that is what he is going to bring in at this point.

 

[gary2]

3 years is not an instant gratification. It's more than reasonable.

If you came into a situation where your roster (before recruiting) would be this in 2017:

R.Nix
R.Luther
C.Johnson (maybe/maybe not)
D.Wilson
J.Kithcart

C.Manigault
C.Clark
J.Milligan

Remember you are Pitt (not Duke or UNC)and have 5 or 6 scholarships to give to add to the above.

How long do you think it should take to assemble a tournament team(when you play an ACC schedule)? Lets start here in terms of gratification.

Forget Kevan Stallings is the coach. Presume if you want, Dixon is the coach or anyone (who doesn't cheat) else.

How long to make a tournament team from the above?

 

[Jpripper88]

It is hard to recruit at Pitt. Howland felt that to be the case and the ACC Dixon found it out to be true.

We are not a blue blood. Our long term tradition is not great. We don't currently pay. We have no intrinsic recruiting territory. There are no climate advantages. We are not just one step removed from being an Ivy League institution. We are not the marquee team of our league

We do play in a great league and we do get great exposure. We do reside in a great city.

Stallings (and my guess most other coaches) will never out recruit most ACC schools:

Duke, UNC, Louis, Syr, FSU, Miami, NC St and ND. These schools have built in advantages or cheat. Some both.

Stallings (or anyone else) has little choice but to go back to our old formula. Play 21 to 23 year olds against their newbies. It is our best chance to win.

Because little foundation was present on Stallings arrival that is going to take some time.

It sucks hearing you have to wait. People want instant gratification. Sorry, there is no quick fix.

PS: I know many on this board think Dixon is John Wooden and Stallings is Darrell Porter. I guess everyone is entitled to an opinion.

Will Pitt ever out recruit Duke or UNC? Nope. Louisville and Syracuse? Not with their current coaches, but certainly could down the line. The rest? Why not? None of those schools have big advantages in basketball. What matters is the coach/staff.

How is Western Kentucky able to out recruit us? How is Xavier able to out recruit us? How are VT, Providence, and Creighton able to out recruit us?

In basketball, you need a coach and almost all of the other "advantages" are out the door. If that coach can recruit, you have a chance. If they can't, you don't. After the blue bloods, ALL that really matters is the coach. The only other factor is local recruiting territory and with AAU and Academy ball taking over, that is largely moot.

 

[Jpripper88]

If you came into a situation where your roster (before recruiting) would be this in 2017:

R.Nix
R.Luther
C.Johnson (maybe/maybe not)
D.Wilson
J.Kithcart

C.Manigault
C.Clark
J.Milligan

Remember you are Pitt (not Duke or UNC)and have 5 or 6 scholarships to give to add to the above.

How long do you think it should take to assemble a tournament team(when you play an ACC schedule)? Lets start here in terms of gratification.

Forget Kevan Stallings is the coach. Presume if you want, Dixon is the coach or anyone (who doesn't cheat) else.

I would have recruited some players in 2016 and would have recruited a hell of a lot better in 2017 or I would expect to lose my job very, very quickly.

 

[gary2]

Will Pitt ever out recruit Duke or UNC? Nope. Louisville and Syracuse? Not with their current coaches, but certainly could down the line. The rest? Why not? None of those schools have big advantages in basketball. What matters is the coach/staff.

How is Western Kentucky able to out recruit us? How is Xavier able to out recruit us? How are VT, Providence, and Creighton able to out recruit us?

In basketball, you need a coach and almost all of the other "advantages" are out the door. If that coach can recruit, you have a chance. If they can't, you don't. After the blue bloods, ALL that really matters is the coach. The only other factor is local recruiting territory and with AAU and Academy ball taking over, that is largely moot.

You don't think ND has an advantage? You don't think Miami and FSU have an advantage? You don't think NC St under Gottfried had an advantage?

You don't understand why Western Kentucky out recruits us?

Virginia Tech is the coach. Providence maybe more going on there than meets the eye(admission wise).

Schools like Xavier, Butler and Creighton have been at the top of the food chain in their leagues, plus they have developed a certain niche that works to their advantage. That is something we need to do. Stallings has said as much.