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Hand Checks

Zaratoughda

Redshirt
Nov 12, 2009
982
86
28
I don't know if you all remember this or not, but at this time last year the refs were doing the same thing... calling fouls on the hand checks. Then, as the season went along, didn't seem like a big deal at all, either because they stopped calling them OR the players learned to play D without hand checking.

There is no reason why a player can't play D without hand checking. It is really a lazy attempt at defense so they got to learn to play without doing it.

As far as the problems with our D.... as I said in another thread it is a matter of double teaming and the other team getting wide open shots.

As far as the problems we had with D last year.... not enough players that could handle a slot in the rotation to the point where the players were worn down by the end of the game causing Dixon to go to all sorts of bizarre defenses. Dixon has MORE than enough solid players this year so that should not be a problem.

The thing about our zone... is it is not very good. Dixon puts the emphasis on the man D and the zone does not get that much work. Putting in more work on our zone will make it better but not good enough to not get eaten alive by the likes of Petino. Last year against Louisville, the first three plays it was used by Dixon against them, they nailed 3balls real fast. Not exactly Detroit there.

Our zone works as a change of pace and some teams have problems against it but, not gonna work against the better teams.

Dixon needs to work out the kinks in the defenses, both man and zone. If you double great but you gotta get back. The players need to learn that. Right now it is kinda like 'help out your teammate and screw the team'. That is what is happening and they need to get better.
 
I stand by contention, at least until the refs back off (if they do at all this year--the NCAA seems very very serious), that effective m2m defense is no longer possible by anyone. Dixon knows it and has said we will play more zone and even Coach K at Duke knows it.

It is not hand checks that are an issue in my mind--it is the other stuff, like not allowing incidental light body contact and calling fouls for obstructing the offensive players path to the hoop (way beyond the traditional blocking foul where there is solid physical body contact). Its the whole freedom of movement thing--by its very nature it mitigates against playing m2m as anyone's primary defense. Either you play worthless "matador" defense or you commit way too many fouls even without hand checking.

Zones will reduce the number of fouls committed under the new rules and protect the interior more effectively than m2m could possibly do under the new paradigm. IMHO, in most cases it will now be worth the risk of not being able to defend the 3-point shot as well because the ability to do that using m2m has also decreased because the defender will be giving more space to the shooter anyway.
 
Well, IMO if the players know how to double team... enough to stop the penetration but not so much that they can't get back to defend their man.... then the man defense will be better than zone.

Also.... our problem against Detroit was not dribble penetration... but their big posting up and scoring... and THAT was what was drawing the double team from us and... leaving guys open on the perimeter.

With our zone... the double teaming is more automatic... but so is the problem of players getting wide open 3 ball shots.

So, I don't think the problem is man vs zone... but effective double teaming that the team is not doing very good right now.

We can agree to disagree on this.

But, if we go to the zone again against a better team... and they start getting lots of wide open 3 ball looks... and start nailing them... uh.... what can I say... will have to say I told you so.

What I am going to watch... is how effective our double teaming is when we go to it.

Thanks for the reply!
 
Well, IMO if the players know how to double team... enough to stop the penetration but not so much that they can't get back to defend their man.... then the man defense will be better than zone.

Also.... our problem against Detroit was not dribble penetration... but their big posting up and scoring... and THAT was what was drawing the double team from us and... leaving guys open on the perimeter.

With our zone... the double teaming is more automatic... but so is the problem of players getting wide open 3 ball shots.

So, I don't think the problem is man vs zone... but effective double teaming that the team is not doing very good right now.

We can agree to disagree on this.

But, if we go to the zone again against a better team... and they start getting lots of wide open 3 ball looks... and start nailing them... uh.... what can I say... will have to say I told you so.

What I am going to watch... is how effective our double teaming is when we go to it.

Thanks for the reply!
Who is the "big" from Detroit that you say hurt us inside?? Wilson & Hogan were the leading scorers.
 
I can't believe the touch fouls they are calling. the bigs can't even bump a little. just doesn't seem right. They want higher scoring, this may get it. no defense allowed.
 
I can't believe the touch fouls they are calling. the bigs can't even bump a little. just doesn't seem right. They want higher scoring, this may get it. no defense allowed.

I agree,

Like the shot clock change but not basically "eliminating" defense and letting offensive players just 'bump' the defense and get to the line is dumb. Probably will see a lot more foul trouble because of this and a few more foul outs.

Fun story, was watching West Virginia vs Stetson basketball game several days ago and a player on Stetson fouled out with 3 min to go, in the FIRST HALF. I was thinking that's bad playing and even worse coaching to let your player being playing with 4 fouls and not get to even play in the second half.

Maybe with the new rules players should foul out after 6 (not five)???

Just a thought.
 
Yeah I don't think in any way the refs are making bad calls by enforcing this. I just think the games are dragging on and it gets annoying when there is a foul every 5 seconds. Not saying this is on the refs or the NCAA for enforcing this, it just is really annoying.
 
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