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Has there ever been a college basketball coach that has failed to bring in a high school recruit in 2 consecutive years?

recruitsreadtheseboards said:
We had 1 High School recruit last year. 0 this year. His eye for talent? That top 30 class, how are they doing? They are all still here. You would think if it was top 30, at least it would allow us to get into the middle of the ACC. It hasn't. And that is because half of the kids were way overrated, and we had nothing come in after, and everyone before that class is gone.

Fourth straight year we will finish in the bottom quartile of the ACC. (well actually 5th with Stallings). No recruits. No prospects of getting recruits.

And your solution is a coach entering his 5th year with the same staff just going into the transfer portal and seeing what sticks and this will do what?? What will that do? What?

Christ you can't even admit Capel is too stubborn to at least change up coaches, get some new voices, new ideas, new energy, new vision, new contacts. Nothing.

I am sorry. YOU are the completely irrational one in everyone of these posts. I don't care if you post 10000 words, it is 10000 words of pure BS.
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The guys he has recruited and found in the portal have led us to where we are, 3-7 against the easiest part of our schedule. Telling me he’ll find more Mo’s and Burton’s means we still suck
 
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recruitsreadtheseboards said:
We had 1 High School recruit last year. 0 this year. His eye for talent? That top 30 class, how are they doing? They are all still here. You would think if it was top 30, at least it would allow us to get into the middle of the ACC. It hasn't. And that is because half of the kids were way overrated, and we had nothing come in after, and everyone before that class is gone.

Fourth straight year we will finish in the bottom quartile of the ACC. (well actually 5th with Stallings). No recruits. No prospects of getting recruits.

And your solution is a coach entering his 5th year with the same staff just going into the transfer portal and seeing what sticks and this will do what?? What will that do? What?

Christ you can't even admit Capel is too stubborn to at least change up coaches, get some new voices, new ideas, new energy, new vision, new contacts. Nothing.

I am sorry. YOU are the completely irrational one in everyone of these posts. I don't care if you post 10000 words, it is 10000 words of pure BS.
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you wanted me to add my perspective. I did. now you're complaining it's BS.

look man, i get it. you don't like my comments or views. doesn't seem like you like me as a person. which is fine.

no matter what my crazy sports take are, I can at least hang my hat on being an optimist. I'd much rather be that than a guy who's constantly negative and calls people names on the internet. It's completely pathetic.
 
I also wouldn’t advise any HS kid outside of the top 100 to go HM right now. Go low, play, kill then choose wherever you wanna go with one time transfer. Robert morris’ and Duquesne’s are the new jucos
 
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Wanstash21 said:
you wanted me to add my perspective. I did. now you're complaining it's BS.

look man, i get it. you don't like my comments or views. doesn't seem like you like me as a person. which is fine.

no matter what my crazy sports take are, I can at least hang my hat on being an optimist. I'd much rather be that than a guy who's constantly negative and calls people names on the internet. It's completely pathetic.
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I don't know you to not like you. But your views are just irrational yet you are claiming everyone else is irrational.

Results count. Results matter.

Pat Narduzzi is a good example of patience rewarded. But Narduzzi's football teams were never in the bottom of the conference. Ever. Never at the bottom. In fact, Pitt has been one of the better ACC teams. And even after 2019 and 20 disappointments, there was some foundation to build on.

In an era of transfer at the first sign of adversity, the football program had an amazing retention record. Recruiting wasn't top notch, but it was decent. And he has kids coming back wanting to play. And everything was rewarded this year. And the program looks good.

That has not happened with basketball. We are in the bottom 4 every year. We have tremendous amount of transfers comparatively speaking. Recruiting absolutely sucks. There are no foundation, no building blocks.

Again, Season 4 is worse than Season 1. Season 1 followed an 0-18 season in the ACC. Season 5 (next year) looks like it will be no different than season 4 (or 3) for that matter. No hope. You can hang onto Capel and next year at this time, when we are at the same place, now what? What is the excuse? That is another lost recruiting class. Another year behind. Another empty Pete year. Another year buried in the local and national sports scene. We are....well Texas Christian pre Dixon.

I don't know where your confidence and faith is coming from. And you just keep on doubling down acting like others are the irrational folks.
 
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Wanstash21 said:
you're allowed to have those reactions when you compete at the highest level. We don't and haven't in 10+ years. I'm not saying we shouldn't have high expectations, but it's not 0-100 every single time. Some things take time and I think over time he will get us back to winning basketball.

He's brought in two top 30 classes in 4 years. He's the only current coach to put a 3 star in the NBA after two years. He clearly has a great eye for talent - especially under valued talent. He hasn't hit on the big fish yet, but we're always the last 1 or 2 in the race for top kids. I'd like to think he'll begin to close on these kids. Why? he's done it many times before. His team has been hurt or suspended for most of the year and he's still winning games - meaning he's a good coach. There's nothing to suggest he's not. Nothing. the point he's not a good gameday coach is based on what? what is that based on? please tell me. he made changes to the staff before the year. added a recruiting director. He's getting ahead of the curve and realizing he needs a recruiting director to focus on two different entities - HS and transfers. It's not just HS anymore, so he realized he needed more help. He has a top 75 kid landed in 2023. He's hit on numerous transfers that are quality players. He is a players coach. kids love playing for him. this entire team stands with him. He's a great leader for this program. well respected around the league. he has a tremendous pedigree.

I'm still sold on what was sold to everyone when he was hired. he hadn't been an HC in 7 years before taking the Pitt job. he thought he could come in and just throw talented kids on the court and it'd work out. The first class is what led to this. Those kids weren't a fit.. and that's on Capel. X and Trey aren't team guys. They never were. Toney was.. but you start to become more selfish when that's the culture built from your two ball handlers. This year is a fresh start. There is no "me" on this team. Everyone wants to be here. Everyone. A kid that could transfer to a lot of P6 schools (Nike) next year wants to return to play for Capel.

Keeping him ensures development.. or at least the opportunity for development with younger players. Will, Noah, Max, Femi, John, Santos, and Payton are all longer term kids. All need time to develop. Losing them now might not seem like much, but that's over two years of wasted progression. You can't afford for that to happen you're not living in a recruiting hot bed.

Capel came to Pitt with ZERO pipelines developed. the best prospect in Western PA in 5+ years is on this roster and he's unplayable offensively. the other one is at Purdue.. and mind you, he was set on Purdue before Capel was hired. I was close to that recruitment. Capel spent a lot of time with Morton. It's pretty tough to sway a kid from a top 10 program to a team that just lost 19 conference games. There aren't any other pipelines. None from NY. None from Philly. He developed one in Ohio. He'll develop more. He showed up and NONE were developed. NONE. ZERO.

since I don't mention his flaws.. which I do.. here are my thoughts..

he needs to prioritize positional recruiting more. He hasn't landed a true PG since he's been here. That's a problem. X is.. but not really. Femi isn't. Burton isn't. Nike isn't. Trey isn't. Burton is easily the closest thing to it. He's a good QB out there who gets us into our sets.. but he's not a true PG.

roster management. early on, he threw a bunch of pieces together thinking they'd mesh. clearly, it didn't. he needs to manage ego's better. one way to do it? don't recruit any. he certainly has none on this team.. if he does, they're being managed MUCH better.

position flexibility. I think he needs to experiment with different lineups. Noah shouldn't just be restricted to backing up John. If Payton and Oladpo provided spacing I'd understand why you want them backing up Mo at the 4, but they don't. Noah should be getting minutes at the 4 and 5. Will should be getting minutes at the 4 as well. I think he's way too set on kids in certain spots. It was nice to see Femi more off ball though.

recruiting in general. it can be better. no doubt. developing the pipelines takes time if you don't have any staffers who have those pipelines setup. he needs to be more aware of where he stands with each kid. putting all of the eggs in Reid's basket. when you're dealing with LSU, don't ever assume you have the upper hand. He did. it burnt him.

the way I look at it is that he's ONE player away from a totally different perspective. If he landed Reid or RJ, there is a totally different energy right now. He's not far away. He simply isn't. if he was miles away I'd say throw in the towel. He's not. You CANNOT afford to restart again. you have a pile of underclassman who have decent potential and you have already sunk so much time into them. You have to let it play out. If these kids show zero progression next year and it's more of this, then you say "ok, time to go". You absolutely give him anther year. You'd be a moron not to.

now your turn to pile on. this is a bunch of rambling, but I don't have time to break it all down how I want to. Don't tell me I don't have a perspective. Don't tell me I'm clueless. I'm far from it.
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This reads literally like an e-mail from Capel’s agent to HL. Or like you were forced to take a side and write an argumentative paper for a college class. Because you aren’t clueless but it’s hard to believe you really truly believe all of that.

If you do… props to you. You probably live a happy life if you are able to find positives in the rest of your life the same way you are with Jeff Capel.

But you’re simply wrong here.
 
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recruitsreadtheseboards said:
I don't know you to not like you. But your views are just irrational yet you are claiming everyone else is irrational.

Results count. Results matter.

Pat Narduzzi is a good example of patience rewarded. But Narduzzi's football teams were never in the bottom of the conference. Ever. Never at the bottom. In fact, Pitt has been one of the better ACC teams. And even after 2019 and 20 disappointments, there was some foundation to build on.

In an era of transfer at the first sign of adversity, the football program had an amazing retention record. Recruiting wasn't top notch, but it was decent. And he has kids coming back wanting to play. And everything was rewarded this year. And the program looks good.

That has not happened with basketball. We are in the bottom 4 every year. We have tremendous amount of transfers comparatively speaking. Recruiting absolutely sucks. There are no foundation, no building blocks.

Again, Season 4 is worse than Season 1. Season 1 followed an 0-18 season in the ACC. Season 5 (next year) looks like it will be no different than season 4 (or 3) for that matter. No hope. You can hang onto Capel and next year at this time, when we are at the same place, now what? What is the excuse? That is another lost recruiting class. Another year behind. Another empty Pete year. Another year buried in the local and national sports scene. We are....well Texas Christian pre Dixon.

I don't know where your confidence and faith is coming from. And you just keep on doubling down acting like others are the irrational folks.
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I like the comparison with Narduzzi. We’d kill to have Capel have his worst season compare to Narduzzi’s. And don’t forget that in Duzz’s worst season (2017) the lasting impression was a positive one — a win over the #2 team in the country and the introduction of a future star QB to get excited about.
 
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pittjas said:
This reads literally like an e-mail from Capel’s agent to HL. Or like you were forced to take a side and write an argumentative paper for a college class. Because you aren’t clueless but it’s hard to believe you really truly believe all of that.

If you do… props to you. You probably live a happy life if you are able to find positives in the rest of your life the same way you are with Jeff Capel.

But you’re simply wrong here.
Click to expand...

I believe it.. I wouldn't waste my time typing it out if I didn't.
 
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recruitsreadtheseboards said:
I don't know you to not like you. But your views are just irrational yet you are claiming everyone else is irrational.

Results count. Results matter.

Pat Narduzzi is a good example of patience rewarded. But Narduzzi's football teams were never in the bottom of the conference. Ever. Never at the bottom. In fact, Pitt has been one of the better ACC teams. And even after 2019 and 20 disappointments, there was some foundation to build on.

In an era of transfer at the first sign of adversity, the football program had an amazing retention record. Recruiting wasn't top notch, but it was decent. And he has kids coming back wanting to play. And everything was rewarded this year. And the program looks good.

That has not happened with basketball. We are in the bottom 4 every year. We have tremendous amount of transfers comparatively speaking. Recruiting absolutely sucks. There are no foundation, no building blocks.

Again, Season 4 is worse than Season 1. Season 1 followed an 0-18 season in the ACC. Season 5 (next year) looks like it will be no different than season 4 (or 3) for that matter. No hope. You can hang onto Capel and next year at this time, when we are at the same place, now what? What is the excuse? That is another lost recruiting class. Another year behind. Another empty Pete year. Another year buried in the local and national sports scene. We are....well Texas Christian pre Dixon.

I don't know where your confidence and faith is coming from. And you just keep on doubling down acting like others are the irrational folks.
Click to expand...

I think it's completely irrational to be complaining about the 2022 recruiting class - especially this day in age.

i think we're a player or two away from being good. you don't. idk how I'm irrational for thinking that?

saying recruiting absolutely sucks isn't true. that's irrational because factually it's incorrect.

saying there's no foundation isn't true. we have a team full of underclassman. 3 upper classman. the rest underclassman. some are still very raw. if you expected them all to be good as sophomores, that's irrational. expecting them to be good as upper classman isn't irrational. you'd expect growth from younger players developing in a program.

just because you disagree doesn't mean my points are irrational.
 
Wanstash21 said:
I think it's completely irrational to be complaining about the 2022 recruiting class - especially this day in age.

saying recruiting absolutely sucks isn't true. that's irrational because factually it's incorrect.
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We have no recruits for 2022 signed. Fact. So if that doesn’t suck, it must be a good thing then right?
 
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Wanstash21 said:
I think it's completely irrational to be complaining about the 2022 recruiting class - especially this day in age.

i think we're a player or two away from being good. you don't. idk how I'm irrational for thinking that?

saying recruiting absolutely sucks isn't true. that's irrational because factually it's incorrect.

saying there's no foundation isn't true. we have a team full of underclassman. 3 upper classman. the rest underclassman. some are still very raw. if you expected them all to be good as sophomores, that's irrational. expecting them to be good as upper classman isn't irrational. you'd expect growth from younger players developing in a program.

just because you disagree doesn't mean my points are irrational.
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Who's coming? Okay, say an Oscar Tshiebwe is in the portal. Or a Jahvon Quinerly. Are they going to come to Pitt? No. Not a chance.

We will get a lower level D1 kid or a 6th or 7th guy off of say maybe a top 40 team! Oh yeah, look out Levance, Dejuan and Sam, wait until you see what we got!!!
 
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Wanstash21 said:
1) just because someone claims to have recruiting or inside info doesn't mean they do. I'm gonna create a username called Darth and say stuff. Then I'll use that to support my argument. How does that sound?

2) everyone is like "look at Wake Forest!!" "Look at how they turned it around in a year!" They have 1 recruit for 2022 - 75th ranked Overall class. Their class in 2021 was 44th. Capel has had two classes better than this. There is nothing wrong with taking a project in 2022 + transfers. Like I said above, we have a pile of underclassman. There's no need to keep adding to that until the season is over and you look at what the turnover is. If he loses some guys, he'll supplement with 2 year transfers. Name a class you're unhappy with. Which class did he bring in that you're not happy with? 2021? Santos + Burton + Mo + Dan + Payton is a fine class. He acquired two kids that are ACC ready right now along with two kids that are potential ACC players down the road. What is so wrong with that class? why in the world are we so upset with 2022 class right now? I mean seriously, do we really think Jeff Capel isn't going to land quality players? He hasn't failed at that since he's been here.

3) Idc about 6 straight losing seasons. There was a 7 year gap between each stop. Some guy saying he's the only OU coach since 1980 to not make the final four.. as if that's an indictment on him???????????? how the f**k is that a negative thing? How many coaches have made the final four? there's a pile of great coaches who never have. 6 straight losing seasons is totally irrelevant. did we think we'd have a winner right away? I was hoping we would have one this year, and if you read my posts, I truly believed we would when our team was healthy.

4) next year you can roll this lineup out there

Burton
Femi
Nike
Transfer
Hugley

if he adds a decent floor stretcher at the four, this team will be TOUGH. You have experience at guard. Experience underneath. you have some sophomores and juniors that are improved.

The reason everyone is down on Will, Noah, Max, Santos, etc. is because they're forced into action. these kids were never going to make an impact years 1 and 2. If you thought that, you were totally misled by some moron on this board. they are good pieces. they do have potential.
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It's official, you really are nuts.
 
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Wanstash21 said:
I think it's completely irrational to be complaining about the 2022 recruiting class - especially this day in age.

i think we're a player or two away from being good. you don't. idk how I'm irrational for thinking that?

saying recruiting absolutely sucks isn't true. that's irrational because factually it's incorrect.

saying there's no foundation isn't true. we have a team full of underclassman. 3 upper classman. the rest underclassman. some are still very raw. if you expected them all to be good as sophomores, that's irrational. expecting them to be good as upper classman isn't irrational. you'd expect growth from younger players developing in a program.

just because you disagree doesn't mean my points are irrational.
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We are definitely only 2 players away from a tournament team. If only we could recruit LeBron and Steph Curry, we could compete for a ncaa championship.
 
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recruitsreadtheseboards said:
I can't see it. We are about as bad off as we are with Stallings. And Stalling didn't have the off the court stuff and half of his team was seemingly on the ACC All Academic team.
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Stallings, despite what has been said about him, was a high character, stand up guy, individual.

Anyone taking one look at his son would recognize that.
 
Wanstash21 said:
he's getting a year 5.. that's the reality. you better learn to deal w it
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I think he most likely is because of that disaster of an extension. That doesn’t make it the right decision. I personally don’t care. I think the crop of candidates could be much better next year anyways. Not sold on anyone that they can get is a program changer.

but him being back is gonna lead to another disaster year.
 
BballinsiderfromPitt said:
I think he most likely is because of that disaster of an extension. That doesn’t make it the right decision. I personally don’t care. I think the crop of candidates could be much better next year anyways. Not sold on anyone that they can get is a program changer.

but him being back is gonna lead to another disaster year.
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Hoping you wrong here.

He has “earned” his firing.
 
BballinsiderfromPitt said:
I think he most likely is because of that disaster of an extension. That doesn’t make it the right decision. I personally don’t care. I think the crop of candidates could be much better next year anyways. Not sold on anyone that they can get is a program changer.

but him being back is gonna lead to another disaster year.
Click to expand...

Eh . not related really.
 
BballinsiderfromPitt said:
I know they’re not related. If it’s the right time to get rid of him, she has to make a move regardless of the pool of candidates. I don’t see any program builders having a great year that we can’t get in a year.
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theyre looking at someone older
 
Nope, but let's reconvene on Monday and see how we do these next 3 games.
 
pittzip said:
Nope, but let's reconvene on Monday and see how we do these next 3 games.
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Agree with that. he needs 2 out of win in my view to have any chance

3-7 against the easier half of the schedule. Heneedsat the very least, to duplicate that.
 
Wanstash21 said:
Pitt fans are knee jerk. We beat Syracuse and people were praising my belief in the staff and how I am sticking by my guns. We lose the next game and I'm a total idiot. Tilting each game is the definition of knee jerk. That's all you guys do.
Click to expand...


It's as if you think that there is only one other person here, so that when someone praises the coach after a win that is the same person that is beating up the coach after a loss.
 
Wanstash21 said:
you're allowed to have those reactions when you compete at the highest level. We don't and haven't in 10+ years. I'm not saying we shouldn't have high expectations, but it's not 0-100 every single time. Some things take time and I think over time he will get us back to winning basketball.

He's brought in two top 30 classes in 4 years. He's the only current coach to put a 3 star in the NBA after two years. He clearly has a great eye for talent - especially under valued talent. He hasn't hit on the big fish yet, but we're always the last 1 or 2 in the race for top kids. I'd like to think he'll begin to close on these kids. Why? he's done it many times before. His team has been hurt or suspended for most of the year and he's still winning games - meaning he's a good coach. There's nothing to suggest he's not. Nothing. the point he's not a good gameday coach is based on what? what is that based on? please tell me. he made changes to the staff before the year. added a recruiting director. He's getting ahead of the curve and realizing he needs a recruiting director to focus on two different entities - HS and transfers. It's not just HS anymore, so he realized he needed more help. He has a top 75 kid landed in 2023. He's hit on numerous transfers that are quality players. He is a players coach. kids love playing for him. this entire team stands with him. He's a great leader for this program. well respected around the league. he has a tremendous pedigree.

I'm still sold on what was sold to everyone when he was hired. he hadn't been an HC in 7 years before taking the Pitt job. he thought he could come in and just throw talented kids on the court and it'd work out. The first class is what led to this. Those kids weren't a fit.. and that's on Capel. X and Trey aren't team guys. They never were. Toney was.. but you start to become more selfish when that's the culture built from your two ball handlers. This year is a fresh start. There is no "me" on this team. Everyone wants to be here. Everyone. A kid that could transfer to a lot of P6 schools (Nike) next year wants to return to play for Capel.

Keeping him ensures development.. or at least the opportunity for development with younger players. Will, Noah, Max, Femi, John, Santos, and Payton are all longer term kids. All need time to develop. Losing them now might not seem like much, but that's over two years of wasted progression. You can't afford for that to happen you're not living in a recruiting hot bed.

Capel came to Pitt with ZERO pipelines developed. the best prospect in Western PA in 5+ years is on this roster and he's unplayable offensively. the other one is at Purdue.. and mind you, he was set on Purdue before Capel was hired. I was close to that recruitment. Capel spent a lot of time with Morton. It's pretty tough to sway a kid from a top 10 program to a team that just lost 19 conference games. There aren't any other pipelines. None from NY. None from Philly. He developed one in Ohio. He'll develop more. He showed up and NONE were developed. NONE. ZERO.

since I don't mention his flaws.. which I do.. here are my thoughts..

he needs to prioritize positional recruiting more. He hasn't landed a true PG since he's been here. That's a problem. X is.. but not really. Femi isn't. Burton isn't. Nike isn't. Trey isn't. Burton is easily the closest thing to it. He's a good QB out there who gets us into our sets.. but he's not a true PG.

roster management. early on, he threw a bunch of pieces together thinking they'd mesh. clearly, it didn't. he needs to manage ego's better. one way to do it? don't recruit any. he certainly has none on this team.. if he does, they're being managed MUCH better.

position flexibility. I think he needs to experiment with different lineups. Noah shouldn't just be restricted to backing up John. If Payton and Oladpo provided spacing I'd understand why you want them backing up Mo at the 4, but they don't. Noah should be getting minutes at the 4 and 5. Will should be getting minutes at the 4 as well. I think he's way too set on kids in certain spots. It was nice to see Femi more off ball though.

recruiting in general. it can be better. no doubt. developing the pipelines takes time if you don't have any staffers who have those pipelines setup. he needs to be more aware of where he stands with each kid. putting all of the eggs in Reid's basket. when you're dealing with LSU, don't ever assume you have the upper hand. He did. it burnt him.

the way I look at it is that he's ONE player away from a totally different perspective. If he landed Reid or RJ, there is a totally different energy right now. He's not far away. He simply isn't. if he was miles away I'd say throw in the towel. He's not. You CANNOT afford to restart again. you have a pile of underclassman who have decent potential and you have already sunk so much time into them. You have to let it play out. If these kids show zero progression next year and it's more of this, then you say "ok, time to go". You absolutely give him anther year. You'd be a moron not to.

now your turn to pile on. this is a bunch of rambling, but I don't have time to break it all down how I want to. Don't tell me I don't have a perspective. Don't tell me I'm clueless. I'm far from it.
Click to expand...
I see.......so basically he's a good coach, he just needs to do a whole bunch of stuff that any actual good coach wouldn't need to be told to do by an anonymous internet message board poster.
 
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PittPoker said:
You don't accept reality and that makes you nuts.
Click to expand...
32798dc6dbbb8272965ebd24e395f96c5c2ec69f.gifv
 
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thom67 said:
We are definitely only 2 players away from a tournament team. If only we could recruit LeBron and Steph Curry, we could compete for a ncaa championship.
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LOL. Exactly. If grandma had a pair of nuts, she'd be grandpa.
 
BballinsiderfromPitt said:
I think he most likely is because of that disaster of an extension. That doesn’t make it the right decision. I personally don’t care. I think the crop of candidates could be much better next year anyways. Not sold on anyone that they can get is a program changer.

but him being back is gonna lead to another disaster year.
Click to expand...

This is the other thing. Who are we going to get? Medved is the only high major/MM who is a sure thing and he ain't picking Pitt. I'd rather see another year of Gates. And the guy I like (and you do too), Ryan Odom is too big of a risk right now because Utah St sucks this year. If he turns them around next year, he would be a heck of a great fit here.
 
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