Head coaching matters

[HailtoPitt]

Just look at schools that have hired proven head coaches at the highest levels. While it's not a given, they typically see success.

- Saban was hired at Bama as a proven college coach.
- LSU hired Kelly, a proven head coach at ND and Cincy, has them in the playoff hunt in his first season.
- UCLA hired a proven college head coach Chip Kelly, has them at 7-1 with an outside shot at the playoffs.
- USC hired proven head coach Lincoln Riley... and they are 7-1 with a shot at the playoffs in his first season
- To a lesser extent, Mike Leech and Mack Jones have Miss St and NC headed in the right direction.

Oklahoma hired a coordinator... thud.
ND hired a coordinator... thud
Miami hired Crystobal who I think underperformed at Oregon

As I said... it's no guarantee, but if you're a program with the means, just go out and grab a proven winning coach instead of rolling the dice.

 

[cease10]

Agreed...I don't believe in hiring coordinators. I want an experienced head coach.

Luke Fickell would be my choice of coach if I was hiring now.

Sonny Dykes is also looking great at TCU.

 

[h2p_5150]

I guess I agree for the most part but you can also wind up paying proven coach Jimbo Fisher 75 million dollars when you could have hired Kirby Smart, who had zero head coaching experience. Outside of a guy like Saban, it's really hard to predict how these things will work out.

 

[ShipofFools]

Talent matters too.

 

[PITTfanSD]

The OP speaks of high profile Blue Blood programs that went out and paid high profile prices for experienced head coaches. I’m not sure if he is trying to make a point or correlation to Pitt but I think that would be a reach. Pitt is not in a position to pay $8+Mil a year for a head coach.

 

[jason754732]

Do you even know what coach duzz makes? It 5 million plus

 

[cease10]

I guess I agree for the most part but you can also wind up paying proven coach Jimbo Fisher 75 million dollars when you could have hired Kirby Smart, who had zero head coaching experience. Outside of a guy like Saban, it's really hard to predict how these things will work out.

Other than the one season with Jameis Winston. I felt Jimbo was pretty average.

 

[HailtoPitt]

Other than the one season with Jameis Winston. I felt Jimbo was pretty average.

I'd say Mike Norvell has been pretty average at FSU. Jimbo was definitely above average there. And how Taggart even got that job is amazing. He was terrible. Dude's had 4 head coaching jobs and has had a losing record at all of them. Amazing that some of these guys keep getting hired.

FSU has the rep and resources. They should be able to land a proven coach at their level. Let's see what Wisconsin and Auburn do. Auburn should be able to recruit someone with proven success, and they will have the time and resources to put together an attractive offer to their chosen candidates. It should not be a difficult hire.

 

[NCPitt]

Just look at schools that have hired proven head coaches at the highest levels. While it's not a given, they typically see success.

- Saban was hired at Bama as a proven college coach.
- LSU hired Kelly, a proven head coach at ND and Cincy, has them in the playoff hunt in his first season.
- UCLA hired a proven college head coach Chip Kelly, has them at 7-1 with an outside shot at the playoffs.
- USC hired proven head coach Lincoln Riley... and they are 7-1 with a shot at the playoffs in his first season
- To a lesser extent, Mike Leech and Mack Jones have Miss St and NC headed in the right direction.

Oklahoma hired a coordinator... thud.
ND hired a coordinator... thud
Miami hired Crystobal who I think underperformed at Oregon

As I said... it's no guarantee, but if you're a program with the means, just go out and grab a proven winning coach instead of rolling the dice.

The first 4 coaches you listed are among the best in the game. Its no surprise they are successful.

There are plenty of examples of assistants being successful - Ryan Day, Dabo Sweeney, Dan Lanning, etc.

 

[Ski11585]

I’m going to guess talent and the programs support matter more than coaching. Kelly winning at LSU is no surprise and it has nothing to do with Kelly and everything to do with LSU.

 

[Gunga_Galunga]

The first 4 coaches you listed are among the best in the game. Its no surprise they are successful.

There are plenty of examples of assistants being successful - Ryan Day, Dabo Sweeney, Dan Lanning, etc.

Even Lincoln Riley he mentioned was an OC who got the HC job at Okl.

There's no secret sauce to hiring head coaches unless you can drop $100m and steal another successful P5 coach.

 

[GT74]

I don’t believe in a set way. Hiring experienced HC has good and bad history as does hiring coordinators. I’m sure we can find out many examples. A program just has to hit it lucky at the right time.

 

[Phillypanther2]

The first 4 coaches you listed are among the best in the game. Its no surprise they are successful.

There are plenty of examples of assistants being successful - Ryan Day, Dabo Sweeney, Dan Lanning, etc.

And plenty examples of experienced head coaches failing.

 

[cease10]

I’m going to guess talent and the programs support matter more than coaching. Kelly winning at LSU is no surprise and it has nothing to do with Kelly and everything to do with LSU.

Kelly has proven himself to be a successful head coach at all of his stops. Like him or not, he should be given credit.

 

[Ski11585]

Kelly has proven himself to be a successful head coach at all of his stops. Like him or not, he should be given credit.

Sure. But LSU isn’t the hardest place to win.

 

[The Ole Six-Fiver]

Talent matters too.

As do big money boosters and schools willing to let them go hog wild

 

[The Ole Six-Fiver]

Kelly has proven himself to be a successful head coach at all of his stops. Like him or not, he should be given credit.

Most successful HC, like most successful military generals, CEOs, pols etc (if you take humanity out of the success equation), are complete aholes. It’s a matter of how far it should be allowed to go. Military, in times of peril, you kind of need to let it go over the lines.

As for the rest, they have to be limits. CEOs that are willing to kill millions in third world countries (aka Bhopal). CEOs that won’t sign off on a $23 part that would prevent gas tank fires in crashes (and that was GM in the 80s, as well as Ford in the 70s).
Definitely have to focus a great deal on financials but such terrible things can’t be excused. Perps need criminal prosecutions and huge prison sentences. For deterrence.

With sports the line needs to be even lower. Freaking college football should not result in children being raped and covered up for decades. Or, a videographer sent to his death in a gale by the egomaniacal tyrant coach. He needed to be fired and blacklisted for that. Again, not just immediate justice for victims but for deterrence from future episodes like them.

The FBS college athletic presidents (which is a cartel after all) merely needed a gentleman’s agreement that nobody would hire this creep. That way nobody would gain the ‘advantage’ of having him. There are loads of great coaches (they seem to avoid Pitt, but nevertheless). Freaking Bran Kelly is not imperative to have in the sport. As with Paterno and his coaching tree who knew of Sandusky and did nothing. The sport gained nothing of any particular brilliance by allowing them to continue getting jobs. People are rooting for the laundry.

Kelly is a stain on the sport. If the team plane were to go down I’d feel badly for the pilots and players who were there when he was hired, but nobody else.

 

[Slick Manager of Champs]

I guess I agree for the most part but you can also wind up paying proven coach Jimbo Fisher 75 million dollars when you could have hired Kirby Smart, who had zero head coaching experience. Outside of a guy like Saban, it's really hard to predict how these things will work out.

yep, Michigan & RichRod, heck Harsin was pretty good at Boise. Frost was the ultimate home run run hire at Nebraska and didn't even make it 4 years.

 

[joeydavid]

The first 4 coaches you listed are among the best in the game. Its no surprise they are successful.

There are plenty of examples of assistants being successful - Ryan Day, Dabo Sweeney, Dan Lanning, etc.

Agreed but I would add one huge difference from a Dabo and a Day. Dabo elevated Clemson where Day has just maintained the status quo at tO$U.

Harbaugh comment was spot on...“Sometimes, there are people standing on third base that think they hit a triple — but they didn't.”

 

[Phillypanther2]

Most successful HC, like most successful military generals, CEOs, pols etc (if you take humanity out of the success equation), are complete aholes. It’s a matter of how far it should be allowed to go. Military, in times of peril, you kind of need to let it go over the lines.

As for the rest, they have to be limits. CEOs that are willing to kill millions in third world countries (aka Bhopal). CEOs that won’t sign off on a $23 part that would prevent gas tank fires in crashes (and that was GM in the 80s, as well as Ford in the 70s).
Definitely have to focus a great deal on financials but such terrible things can’t be excused. Perps need criminal prosecutions and huge prison sentences. For deterrence.

With sports the line needs to be even lower. Freaking college football should not result in children being raped and covered up for decades. Or, a videographer sent to his death in a gale by the egomaniacal tyrant coach. He needed to be fired and blacklisted for that. Again, not just immediate justice for victims but for deterrence from future episodes like them.

The FBS college athletic presidents (which is a cartel after all) merely needed a gentleman’s agreement that nobody would hire this creep. That way nobody would gain the ‘advantage’ of having him. There are loads of great coaches (they seem to avoid Pitt, but nevertheless). Freaking Bran Kelly is not imperative to have in the sport. As with Paterno and his coaching tree who knew of Sandusky and did nothing. The sport gained nothing of any particular brilliance by allowing them to continue getting jobs. People are rooting for the laundry.

Kelly is a stain on the sport. If the team plane were to go down I’d feel badly for the pilots and players who were there when he was hired, but nobody else.

There are plenty of successful coaches, CEO’s, General’s, Political leaders etc, who were successful and weren’t a-holes.
For every Bobby Knight, there’s a Mike Krzyzewski, Tony Dungy etc. For every George Patton there’s a Dwight Eisenhower, for every Donald Trump there’s a Ronald Reagan.
There’s lots of evidence that you don’t need to be a jerk to be successful in leadership positions.

 

[YourPittDanceTeam]

Agreed...I don't believe in hiring coordinators. I want an experienced head coach.

Luke Fickell would be my choice of coach if I was hiring now.

Sonny Dykes is also looking great at TCU.

I'll take Chip Kelly in a second.

 

[BFo8]

I'll take Chip Kelly in a second.

I’m not sold on this incarnation of Chip Kelly, after all he was 18-25 at UCLA before this breakout season.

I will withhold judgement until I see how they do without DTR, who has seemingly been there a decade now.

 

[Duneaux Harm]

The OP speaks of high profile Blue Blood programs that went out and paid high profile prices for experienced head coaches. I’m not sure if he is trying to make a point or correlation to Pitt but I think that would be a reach. Pitt is not in a position to pay $8+Mil a year for a head coach.

Other than Bama and Lsu I would not call any of the others blue bloods.

 

[thebadby2]

Talent matters too.

I'd say Mike Norvell has been pretty average at FSU. Jimbo was definitely above average there. And how Taggart even got that job is amazing. He was terrible. Dude's had 4 head coaching jobs and has had a losing record at all of them. Amazing that some of these guys keep getting hired.

FSU has the rep and resources. They should be able to land a proven coach at their level. Let's see what Wisconsin and Auburn do. Auburn should be able to recruit someone with proven success, and they will have the time and resources to put together an attractive offer to their chosen candidates. It should not be a difficult hire.

Wisky will either retain Jim Leonhard or arm wrestle Nebraska for Lance Leipold. On paper either would be a good hire but I think Leipold is more likely to have major success. Auburn has the institutional commitment and resources to make a power play for one of the coaching heavyweights. Will be interesting.

 

[pittzap]

I’m not sold on this incarnation of Chip Kelly, after all he was 18-25 at UCLA before this breakout season.

I will withhold judgement until I see how they do without DTR, who has seemingly been there a decade now.

Yeah, Kelly had 3 losing seasons in a row at UCLA.

 

[The Ole Six-Fiver]

There are plenty of successful coaches, CEO’s, General’s, Political leaders etc, who were successful and weren’t a-holes.
For every Bobby Knight, there’s a Mike Krzyzewski, Tony Dungy etc. For every George Patton there’s a Dwight Eisenhower, for every Donald Trump there’s a Ronald Reagan.
There’s lots of evidence that you don’t need to be a jerk to be successful in leadership positions.

Sure there are some. The curve leans more to the other end though. In some ways it is understandable because it takes a powerful ego to reach for power in the first place. Most don’t have that innate confidence that they are better qualified than others to make them follow orders against their will. Look at Kelly and his insatiable confidence in his own importance that led him to force a student to scale a scaffold in a gale for a meaningless practice. Most everyone here wouldn’t have nearly the the inflated sense of self to do that … well, some here might 😁 That kind of ego at least partially balanced by a sense of humility leads to some good leaders. But many times that humility is non existent and leads to very bad things.

 

[joeydavid]

Wisky will either retain Jim Leonhard or arm wrestle Nebraska for Lance Leipold. On paper either would be a good hire but I think Leipold is more likely to have major success. Auburn has the institutional commitment and resources to make a power play for one of the coaching heavyweights. Will be interesting.

Leonhard has been the plan. He's why they canned Chryst mid-season.

If you follow UW football at all; their objective is to just win enough games against bad competition to keep the money flowing to Camp Randall. They have no ambition beyond that.

I'm sure having maybe 30% of Camp Randall filled yesterday was noted though.

 

[The Ole Six-Fiver]

Leonhard has been the plan. He's why they canned Chryst mid-season.

If you follow UW football at all; their objective is to just win enough games against bad competition to keep the money flowing to Camp Randall. They have no ambition beyond that.

I'm sure having maybe 30% of Camp Randall filled yesterday was noted though.

It’s true of most Big Ten. They know their place and don’t disturb the hierarchy. Even Penn State seems aware that they can’t amp up to the level to truly challenge Ohio State and Michigan. If truly interested in championships, which given their sordid past (including recent past) seems without doubt, they’d fire Franklin tomorrow. Anyone at all can recruit there; he’s doing nothing special any other coach (with its huge immensely wealthy booster base) couldn’t do. But he’s proven he cannot win the big ones there…not at all, essentially. 1-10 against top 10, correct? That’s pathetic, given what they invest there. Oddly they seem ok with that though. Almost…contractually so??? Like, we will take you in but you can’t challenge the top 2. Weird.

Likewise the tiers below rarely raise their heads over the whack holes. Indiana didn’t even try in it’s game with PSU yesterday. They immediately conceded. The game was over in mid first quarter, and that is by design.

Similarly Northwestern which has NEVER defeated Ohio State under Fitzgerald (ostensibly their best coach in several generations) had an amazing opportunity to finally do so yesterday. Stroud was playing like garbage and OSU stubbornly didn’t ever truly commit to the run until very late. NW with just a slight bit of urgency and chutzpah might have been able to enact a huge upset. But incredibly they ran the ball continuously, possession after possession after possession after possession, utterly fruitlessly (Duz would have been creaming) to kill clock, merely to not lose by TOO much. Almost like the rare upset in that conference likely draws serious ire, and would even more so, but fortunately their poll votes are basically automatic. Illinois beating PSU a couple seasons back would mean instant ejection from the top 25 for any other conference. PSU barely moved.

In contrast at the same time as the NW purposeful loss, lowly Virginia was fighting its arses off to try to beat UNC, the royalty of the ACC. It’s the way it should be done.

I truly don’t know how fans can accept such bootlickery. Indiana and Northwestern fans should have left there in fury. But they’re lapdogs too I guess. Hey there have been many Pitt games where the subpar performances have been angering but I’ve never had the impression that it was by design.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

FSU has the rep and resources.

Actually FSU's problem, and the reason the Jimbo left, is that they simply do not have the resources that the true blue bloods have. In fact they aren't even close.

 

[HailtoPitt]

Most successful HC, like most successful military generals, CEOs, pols etc (if you take humanity out of the success equation), are complete aholes. It’s a matter of how far it should be allowed to go. Military, in times of peril, you kind of need to let it go over the lines.

As for the rest, they have to be limits. CEOs that are willing to kill millions in third world countries (aka Bhopal). CEOs that won’t sign off on a $23 part that would prevent gas tank fires in crashes (and that was GM in the 80s, as well as Ford in the 70s).
Definitely have to focus a great deal on financials but such terrible things can’t be excused. Perps need criminal prosecutions and huge prison sentences. For deterrence.

With sports the line needs to be even lower. Freaking college football should not result in children being raped and covered up for decades. Or, a videographer sent to his death in a gale by the egomaniacal tyrant coach. He needed to be fired and blacklisted for that. Again, not just immediate justice for victims but for deterrence from future episodes like them.

The FBS college athletic presidents (which is a cartel after all) merely needed a gentleman’s agreement that nobody would hire this creep. That way nobody would gain the ‘advantage’ of having him. There are loads of great coaches (they seem to avoid Pitt, but nevertheless). Freaking Bran Kelly is not imperative to have in the sport. As with Paterno and his coaching tree who knew of Sandusky and did nothing. The sport gained nothing of any particular brilliance by allowing them to continue getting jobs. People are rooting for the laundry.

Kelly is a stain on the sport. If the team plane were to go down I’d feel badly for the pilots and players who were there when he was hired, but nobody else.

It's not only the CEOs and coaches. Investors want the increased revenue of not adding that $23 part or the forced child labor. Everything else goes out the winder when there is money to be made.

 

[HailtoPitt]

Actually FSU's problem, and the reason the Jimbo left, is that they simply do not have the resources that the true blue bloods have. In fact they aren't even close.

Ok. I'm not familiar enough with them, but I would think they can hire a guy who has shown more success.

 

[TheSpecialSauce]

Les Miles and Ed Orgeron won national titles at LSU. Not exactly guys who are on the Mount Rushmore of College Coaches.

 

[PITTfanSD]

Each Natty won by LSU was a year they had a great college QB. Having that experienced QB really helps.

 

[FIVE4PITT]

ND a thud they just physically beat Clemson. It takes time to install your offense and defense. Plus get the players that fit the systems. Great QB is needed to make a run.

 

[YourPittDanceTeam]

I’m not sold on this incarnation of Chip Kelly, after all he was 18-25 at UCLA before this breakout season.

I will withhold judgement until I see how they do without DTR, who has seemingly been there a decade now.

It takes time to recruit and develop players to fit into his system. Even if Kelly was to come to Pitt tomorrow, there would be little change for at least the first two years or so.
Kelly is has PROVEN that his offensive approach will work in college. He had tremendous success at Oregon. He basically put their football program into the national spotlight and he has UCLA well on their way to returning their football program to national prominence.
He will get some top recruits to go there because they play a fast, exciting brand of football. They score a lot of points and they are winning.
I still want Narduzzi to be the HC, just want a different OC.. cignetti's offense is terrible,

 

[PITTfanSD]

As much as an a-hole Brian Kelly appears to be he will recruit well and win. He’s a good XOs coach. Players will absorb the verbal abuse (and reporters too) to further their career. There aren’t consolation prizes for players’ coaches. Though, I think Tony Dungy may have been the one exception that immediately comes to mind.