Here’s an interesting idea - recruiting
- Thread starter BballinsiderfromPitt
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Cliff sure would’ve looked good in a Pitt uni. Would’ve started and played 25 mpg, getting back up minutes for a solid Rutgers team.
They sure seem to spend a lot of time on guys that they have no chance with.
Who were the big misses that they did have a chance with?
Those are killers, man. Really think they had them until super late in their recruitments, too. They invested a bunch of energy and time into those guys (Davis more than Wahab) only to get sniped late. Richards even put in a call to Steph!
Not sure she’d care too maybe yours would .
I just think you entirely underestimate the difficulty in recruiting great players to Pitt . The last two really top rated recruits to Pitt were Adams and JRob in 2112 and Adams was the result of a fluke acquaintance . That also was when Pitt bb was something special with a nationally recognized head coach . M Young was a top 75 in 13 then nothing since . Artis was not highly rated and Cam was nothing coming out of hs .
Even in the heydays of Pitt bb they seldom got anyone who you’d consider an instant program changing kind of player . Blair is the only one I can think of ( other than Birch ) that even comes close to fitting that description . He was the missing piece not the lynchpin of creating a winning program .
Until Pitt bb becomes a special winning program there‘s absolutely no way Pitt should beat out the better programs for a recruit . Why play for a bottom tier ACC team ? So you can get an education at Pitt !
So you’re saying hiring a guy who is known to be an ace recruiter and not a great coach was a huge mistake. Got it. You’re on record now saying that.
This is a million percent wrong. A good recruiter can recruit anywhere. This has been proven time and time again. For example, Capel actually is recruiting at a higher level (based on rankings) than Dixon II and Dixon II was selling an elite Top 10 program (at the beginning of Dixon II anyway). The difference is Dixon is a very good coach so he willed those teams to the bubble while Capel is stuck in last place.
Based on what credentials would BK be a candidate for a P6 program? I mean he’s the 3rd in command at Rutgers. If you want to hire someone from that staff Karl Hobbs is 100x more qualified having led GW to multiple tourneys and being part of 2 or 3 of UCONN national titles (and believe me I’m not saying he is even qualified for a PSU).
I love BK, but the long running comments on this board that have him in the running for major conference jobs without cutting his teeth as a HC in the MAAC or NEC first is laughable.
I can’t believe I’m saying this but you’re correct again. Although I think he’s recruiting at the same level as Dixon did during his glory days. He hasn’t landed anyone that Dixon wouldn’t have gotten (rankings wise)
I am saying I would hire him at PSU. I have different hiring credentials than an AD would.
Yes. Rankings-wise, Capel is recruiting very similarly to Dixon I and better than Dixon II. Besides being a very good coach, Dixon was able to find lesser-recruited players who ended up being very good. I dont know if that was luck or what but Dixon II and Capel haven't "hit" on any of the reaches.
Ok I misunderstood your first one. We’re in total agreement on the recruiting.
Murphy, Max, Karim and Femi were all reaches imo. Just basing on who we had to beat for them.
That’s fair. I guess I put the transfers like Murphy (and Sidy, Nike, Hamilton, and Horton) in a different category. I’m not sure if they ever really intended to have Murphy for more than a year (unless he totally lit the world on fire). For a grad transfer of sorts, I think he was fine. Wouldn’t have wanted him for longer than that, obviously.
Of the rest of the guys, I think Coulibaly has performed better than expected this year and has improved from last year (though we can all see the athletic ceiling). While the returns are too early to really judge Femi (and definitely too early for Max, though I’m not expecting a whole lot there for a while), I’ve seen better out of Femi than I thought I would. I expected Femi to be a big time liability running the point this early, and he’s shown that things won’t completely fall apart if he’s in there for a few minutes. Conference play will show us a lot more though.
Yeah that’s not meant to say these guys won’t get minutes when I say they are a reach. In fact, they almost certainly will if you have enough reaches and guys who were overrated (drumgoole) or transfer. They’re reached in the sense they won’t move the needle at all or really contribute meaningfully to a good team.
Not sure that made sense. Anyways, I don’t expect much out of Max ever. Karim has been much better but he’s more of a bit player for his career imo. Femi I think the same. We need a true PG bad and I don’t think he will ever be a starter and if he is we’re gonna be in trouble.
No , the difference is that JD started with a roster that wasn’t depleted and players coming in seldom saw the court their freshman yr and in most cases were only spot players their sophomore yrs . Plugging in a guy for 5-7 minutes is far different than needing 2 or 3 new guys playing vital roles for 20-25 minutes .
Pitt under JD was also successful because he had mature teams that new players needed to battle for minutes against more experienced and physically mature players in practice everyday . By the time players saw the court they knew what their responsibilities in JDs system were and when they screwed up their butts were back on the bench .
How good a team would these players have make as freshman and sophomores Donte Taylor , T Zanna , JJ Moore , Brad Wanamaker ,Lamar Patterson , Durand Johnson , Sam Young and even S Adams ...not very good . As they matured most became excellent players .
JD has proven to be a winning coach , but no one wins without talent . There’s some young talent in the program and we’ll see what JC can do with it as they mature .
Least we not forget JD left the cupboard bare behind the senior class . Cam ( as a soph ) and Luther were the only quality non seniors on the roster . Recruiting was suffering and JD would have been hard pressed to continue his level of success without an infusion of talent . The grad transfers he was filling his roster with were second rate . The program while declining was in a far better place than it was when JC came in .
See my response to SMF when JC can field a team that doesn’t rely on freshmen and newcomers playing pivotal roles we’ll see what kind of coach he is . No one wins without talent .
Bruh. The roster was a recruiter’s dream for the billionth time. Don’t have to carry dead weight for a long time. Your constant excuses are insane
X and Toney are entering the year as third year starters. JC played monster minutes all year as a freshman. Horton is an upper classmen who spent an entire year practicing with Pitt. The core of this team is filled with vets and experienced players.
You make so many excuses it's insane.
I think that’s fair, and it does make sense. I think in a perfect world, you’d absolutely recruit every single guy with a genuine belief that they’re all going to be 30 mpg ACC guys. But I do think there’s still a place to recruit role players, or at least guys who generally have a floor of being a role player. I think that’s where guys like Femi and Coulibaly come in - they have floors of ACC role players and I think it’s okay to have a few guys like that. I think Coulibaly’s already there - he’s basically giving you as a sophomore what Hamilton gave you last year as a senior. They’re different players, but the production is there. Having Coulibaly as a competent four year rotation player at F/C isn’t a bad outcome.
Similarly, I think Femi was a guy who was recruited to be the backup point guard. If he really blows up, all bets are off (which would obviously be great) but I think he’s also a guy where having him on your roster when X leaves isn’t going to scare off the RJ Davises of the world, and you can still pitch those guys as being able to step into a starting PG role. But I think he’s probably going to be an average ACC backup point guard...who, again, has the athletic ceiling and frame to be more than that.
Max was recruited to be the 13th scholarship lottery ticket. I’d probably rather that lottery ticket be in the form of a guy like the Diallo kid who we lost to Ohio State, but he is what he is. I’m hoping by the time he’s a 24 year old redshirt junior he’ll at least be able to bully some people. That’d be fun.
We start 2 juniors, a 3rd year sophomore, and 2 sophomores. I would guess that's in the top half of oldest starting lineups in the league.
Odukale looks like a hit and a PG mentality. if we get Efton and Hughley devlops, we are not terrible at the C position.
Lol Odukale is a hit if he never has to play more than 10 MPG. They’re not gonna get Reid he’s gonna play for money next year and Hugley is too short to play center in the ACC
I think Odukale can be good as 23/24 year old point wing type.
I think I see good vision in him.
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So we should probably recruit over him lol. Meaning he will most likely be a backup or a PG playing a lot of mins on a bad team.
That’s what I mean by reaches
We should recruit over everyone.
If you think a red shirt sophomore and two juniors is an experienced team then there’s no use discussing this matter with you .
(TB the only sr is a non issue )
Yes, if you are so hell bent on making excuses for this team that you would look at X, Toney, and JC and STILL call it a young, inexperienced team, then ANYONE having this discussion with you is wasting their time.
You are divorced from the realities of college basketball.
Lol name another team in the ACC that has 100 started ACC games between them!!! That has to be top 3 in the ACC
You guys are delusional in thinking that Pitt is an experienced team . A red shirt soph from Delaware ! A guy who sat on the bench most of last yr ! All backed up by freshman . Live in the real world !
Compare that to any of Pitts successful teams . Unfortunately if you haven't noticed Pitt doesn’t recruit the level of freshman that the big boys do and until Pitt just like in the Dixon yrs has a team composed mostly of guys in his system for 3 or 4 yr with a sprinkle of young guys Pitt will not be able to compete .
So answer me this , you are a top 20 kid playing in the WPIAL , a real program changer , your parents are die hard Pitt bb fans , you’ve been going to Pitt games since you were 5 . All indications your a lock for Pitt . Sean Miller comes calling “ we need you SMF “ what do you do ? Go to Pitt , no way your gone in a heart beat to Arizona. So why would any top kid with no local ties choose a bottom 1/3 ACC team over better programs . I don’t care who the Pitt coaches are that Davis kid wasn’t coming here last yr once UNC came calling . Same with Hood Schino , once he saw who was interested in him his commitment wasn’t worth a dam . Until Pitt can compete with the big boys they’ll never be able to recruit these kind of kids .
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