Heron to Auburn
- Thread starter TheDeanofPgh
- Start date
No need to post twice, the first time was dumb enough.
Some guys are salesmen. Some are not. It ain't always long history of success and brand names that 5 stars flock to. Sometimes some coaches can actually sell kids on a vision. Whether it is right or wrong.
He's not following Slice to St Johns and wasn't that the real connection to Pitt ,so does it really have any negative reflection on JD ? PITT just isn't offering the same employment package as other universities and that's really the bottom line imo . Under the current and the former administrations Pitt just isn't competitive with these high profile recuirts and all the whining and complaining about the ability of the Pitt staff is just a waste of time. Play BB, go to class and stay out of trouble isn't getting it done. Want to root for elite recuirts and programs you need to look somewhere else.
This kid is an idiot for going to Auburn instead of Pitt. He could've started at Pitt from day one and would have been the electric (and talented) gaurd that we need to make it to the final four or at LEAST the sweet sixteen!
But no....
He's going to Auburn...
Just sad.
Just sad...
But no....
He's going to Auburn...
Just sad.
Just sad...
Bruce Pearl is one of the greatest examples of recruiting in the new age. A couple years ago when he got the job, I predicted that he'd make Auburn a nationally legitimate program in a very short time. This despite NCAA sanctions against him, a couple years out of coaching, and the fact that Auburn is one of the worst major D1 jobs in the country. Its basically "Penn State South" when it comes to basketball. But, for me, none of that mattered. Pearl is a "cool dude" and plays up-tempo. This is a new age. By and large, these millenials aren't really that interested in what we think of as traditional selling points like, you know, the coach being ethical, fans in the seats, conferences, etc.
The coach being a cool dude and the offensive style they play are perhaps the 2 biggest selling points now.
This is the way I feel. Well not quite. I have no remorse or anything what so ever except complete curiosity on Heron to Auburn. And my "some coaches are great salesmen" post is not a slam at Jamie, just an affirmation that some coaches are great salesmen, like Bruce Pearl. I think even Jamie's staunchest defender on these forums will agree he is not a great salesman.
As for Heron to Auburn, my thoughts are "what a waste".
"The coach being a cool dude and the offensive style they play are perhaps the 2 biggest selling points now."
-If Dixon changed his style of play a little (more offensively driven, playing talented freshmen, etc....) and he didn't yell as much at his players (recruits CAN see this on tv) , maybe more good/great recruits would come to Pitt and play for him...
-If Dixon changed his style of play a little (more offensively driven, playing talented freshmen, etc....) and he didn't yell as much at his players (recruits CAN see this on tv) , maybe more good/great recruits would come to Pitt and play for him...
What talented freshman hasn't Dixon played? And what coach doesn't yell at his players?
-Ok, yes all coaches yell at their players, but he yells at his players a lot more than other coaches do.
-And having better selling points like the coaches that Have out-recruited him recently that have far worse programs than him (Penn State, Auburn, etc..) would help a lot.
-And having better selling points like the coaches that Have out-recruited him recently that have far worse programs than him (Penn State, Auburn, etc..) would help a lot.
Can you provide a link to where you got the yelling more than other coaches data comes from? Do you know what words he is yelling? Would you agree that yelling "Come on guys, step it up" is different than yelling "You guys suck out there". Context probably matters, right? Thanks.
Does he? Or maybe you don't microanalyze other coaches interactions with their players because you don't follow them as closely. There's videos of Calipari cursing out his players on YouTube, he seems to do ok for himself.
Dixon doesn't land superstar recruits because he doesn't kiss their ass during the recruiting process and play the other "games" that are often necessary to land those recruits.
Also because of his poor eye contact.
I dont want Dixon to change his style. He's a defense/rebounding coach. That's how he's made his money and he's been quite good at it. If we decide we need to play up-tempo to get better recruits now, then I would want a coach who has proven experience in that style of play. Asking Jamie to play up-tempo is like telling GT football coach Paul Johnson to run the spread to get better recruits, its not who he is.
Jamie is a good guy but just doesn't have that "cool dude" personality. You cannot change your personality. A lot of players gravitate towards coaches like Pearl who act like they are BFF's with the recruits. I'm sure Jamie is cordial as heck on the recruiting trail but he's never going to win a personality competition with Pearl, Jay Wright, JT3, etc.
To be honest, I couldnt have picked a better spot for Heron to go besides Pitt. We dont have to play them, he makes no competitor better and its such an odd choice that it makes me question his character and whether he would have fit in here.
These high profile recruits (Birch, Rowan, Heron) are such primadonnas nowadays, its not even funny.
That's why his program is spiraling down the toilet! Playing "games" is part of the job.
Not very long ago, basketball coaches just had to be basketball coaches. Nowadays, they also have to be one of your boyz. Just a different generation.
I remember in one of my MBA classes as we were studying recruiting Millenials, they said some companies (I still dont believe this BTW) bring Mom and/or Dad in for the interview to sell the company to them. There was also some other bizarre recruiting tactics that I've forgotten (thankfully) but at the time, I was thinking "WTF," these Millenials are just freaking weird, man.
Notice how you didn't get an answer to that question.
Heck, just look at the guys on last year's team. As a freshman Mike Young averaged something like 22 minutes a game (I don't have the exact numbers here, and it isn't worth looking them up). James Robinson played around 27 minutes a game as a freshman. Jamel Artis played around 15. Heck, even a guy who was as lightly recruited as Cam Johnson was somehow managed to average close to 15 minutes per game before his injury.
The notion that Pitt allows clearly more deserving freshmen (and he's argued sophomores in the past as well) to sit and rot on the bench while playing less deserving juniors and seniors is and always has been a crock of, ah, poop. But it's an easy thing for people who don't like Jamie Dixon to sink their teeth into, so the facts be damned!
It's also pretty contradictory to the notion that Dixon "doesn't recruit well". If he doesn't recruit well, exactly how many super talented freshmen are getting the shaft? Seriously, Mike Young was the highest rated recruit of his class and he started from day 1 if I recall correctly.
Jamie Dixon absolutely has his warts, but this goes up on the "Jamie Dixon Myths" board. It's right up there with "Dixon's defense is better than his offense".
I don't understand the 'snake-oil' comments. That term implies there is more style than substance, and with Pearl, that isn't exactly true. Pearl wins just as much as Jamie. He pretty much curb stomped Dixon in their last meeting if I remember correctly.
Its also true that the guy is a great promoter. He can sell tickets, no doubt about it.
Its also true that the guy is a great promoter. He can sell tickets, no doubt about it.
The final score doesn't really do the game justice, but regardless, it is disingenuous to call a 7 point loss a "curb stomping".
There is a lot of fallacies about Jamie and Pitt.
1) He doesn't play FR. Really? Didn't JRob start everygame as a FR? Didn't Young see a lot of PT as a FR? Steven Adams? Dejuan Blair? Etc....this is wrong.
2) He expects his team to play tough defense and rebound. Really? The bastard! Ever watch Pitino's teams play? Calipari's? Coach K's?
3) He doesn't allow players to get their shots. Well no one is going to come in here and throw up 40 shots a game, but I can remember Lamar, Ashton, Sam, etc.,..pretty much getting their shots anytime they wanted.
That is what we always here. The other thing we hear is that Jamie is not a good recruiter. Well that one, I can't argue against.
1) He doesn't play FR. Really? Didn't JRob start everygame as a FR? Didn't Young see a lot of PT as a FR? Steven Adams? Dejuan Blair? Etc....this is wrong.
2) He expects his team to play tough defense and rebound. Really? The bastard! Ever watch Pitino's teams play? Calipari's? Coach K's?
3) He doesn't allow players to get their shots. Well no one is going to come in here and throw up 40 shots a game, but I can remember Lamar, Ashton, Sam, etc.,..pretty much getting their shots anytime they wanted.
That is what we always here. The other thing we hear is that Jamie is not a good recruiter. Well that one, I can't argue against.
Pick and choose what you want to call it, getting curb-stomped, skull-f***ed, snack-caked... whatever. It was as ugly as it gets. Pitt's only lead was at 2-0 and Tennessee built a 21 point lead. Pitt didn't get it under 10 until 2 minutes left to go in the game. The game was never in doubt and the Vols dominated throughout.
Check out this quote from Brad Wanamaker:
"They surprised us early on, and until the end of the game they kept bringing it at us nonstop," Wanamaker said.
Sounds to me like someone that was on the wrong end of curb-stomping to me.
UT dominated us about as bad as I've ever seen up to that point in the Dixon era. We made kinda a useless run at the end but make no mistake, we were completely dominated.
I do think Pearl is a good coach but not good enough to recruit the way he does.
There were some other games where Pitt played horribly before that in the Dixon era and lost badly (Rutgers at home comes to mind), Tennessee just smoked us that game. I didn't even leave the CEC feeling all that bad. The only game that really felt like that one, a really good Pitt team just getting worked from the opening tip, was when we lost to Providence as the #1 team. I think we were down close to 20 at the half.
Pitt lost by 7 in an uncompetitive game to a good team on a somewhat neutral court. I don't think that's an appropriate use of the term "curb stomped". That's my only point.
If losing by 7 points makes Bruce Pearl an all-time great in your mind, then I won't argue.
If losing by 7 points makes Bruce Pearl an all-time great in your mind, then I won't argue.
I wasn't saying Bruce Pearl is any kind of all-time great. My only point was that calling him a snake-oil salesman seems to indicate that he is all style and little substance, when his body of work is on par with Dixon's if not better. That said, he does have a lot of baggage. He recruits a lot of guys with questionable character, and he's obviously been guilty of using very poor judgement about a lot of things. His NCAA infraction was minor, until he lied and tried to cover it up to NCAA investigators.
Yes because Calipari never yells at his players and grabs them by the jersey. Bobby Knight never yelled at anyone right?? Lets just baby our kids. That'll teach us to be good again.
Calipari yells at his kids like a dad yells at his son. After practice, he gives them a hug and tells them how much he loves them and is either really sincere about that or is a very good actor because it looks real.
As for Bobby Knight, he might not win a game in today's college basketball because none of these kids would want to play for him. Are you kidding? That's a terrible example.
All coaches are going to yell to an extent. Its the relationship beyond the yelling which separates guys like Pearl, Calipari, Gottfried from others.
It's a stupid rationale in general..because all coaches build relationships with their kids and all coaches yell at them.
ALL of them.
Yeah, and some (PJ Carlesimo) do it worse than others.
Anyone up for being choked by Latrell Sprewell?
I am sure Carlesimo... DESERVED IT!
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