Well I don’t think you rearrange a drug case or a shooting case.
It is very puzzling what Horton’s case was move up.i It is more puzzling to have someone not appear with the case rescheduled.
Horton
- Thread starter snaphook297
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It is very puzzling what Horton’s case was move up.i It is more puzzling to have someone not appear with the case rescheduled.
What’s puzzling is why any Panther fan doesn’t take this as good news and move on !
is it settled? Did the officer refile charges? If he did, has Pitt revisited the reinstatement?
it could be there is no good news to move on from?
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Gary is just upset he won’t be able to post his Jeffress stat lines.
The good news is he’s reinstated and Pitt has an outside threat , you need more ?
Just catching up after getting back from Atlanta, but for all the people who just assume that we'd have a lot more wins simply because Horton will make a couple threes in every game, last season Horton played 22 games. In 11 of them, exactly half, he made 1 or 0 threes.
His problem isn't that he can't make them. His problem is that he makes five of them against Northern Illinois, and then in the next two games he makes a combined zero of them, and then he comes back and goes 4-6 in the next game. Or he goes a combined 9-21 in back to back games against Syracuse, and then goes a combined 0-5 against Duke and Wake. Or he has a three game stretch against VT, Virginia and GT where he's 11-25 and then he follows that up with four games against NCS, FSU, NCS again and Wake again where he is a combined 2-11.
Yeah, sure, he absolutely could have made a difference in a couple of these close losses. But what if he had played against St John's an threw up an 0-4 with some typically mediocre (and that's be generous) defense? What happens to that two point win? Or if he does it against Colgate in that three point win? Or Towson in that four point win?
He's just not a consistent enough shooter to assume that he's always going to add to this team. If he shoots poorly, and he has shot poorly in the past, he doesn't defend anywhere near well enough to be anything close to a net positive player. He's got to shoot well to be that, and he simply has not shot well enough consistently enough in the past. That's why DT is exactly right in saying that he's not a light's out shooter. Sometimes he is. Sometimes he isn't, The times that he isn't have come way to frequently in the past. And he's just sat out the first two months of the season.
His problem isn't that he can't make them. His problem is that he makes five of them against Northern Illinois, and then in the next two games he makes a combined zero of them, and then he comes back and goes 4-6 in the next game. Or he goes a combined 9-21 in back to back games against Syracuse, and then goes a combined 0-5 against Duke and Wake. Or he has a three game stretch against VT, Virginia and GT where he's 11-25 and then he follows that up with four games against NCS, FSU, NCS again and Wake again where he is a combined 2-11.
Yeah, sure, he absolutely could have made a difference in a couple of these close losses. But what if he had played against St John's an threw up an 0-4 with some typically mediocre (and that's be generous) defense? What happens to that two point win? Or if he does it against Colgate in that three point win? Or Towson in that four point win?
He's just not a consistent enough shooter to assume that he's always going to add to this team. If he shoots poorly, and he has shot poorly in the past, he doesn't defend anywhere near well enough to be anything close to a net positive player. He's got to shoot well to be that, and he simply has not shot well enough consistently enough in the past. That's why DT is exactly right in saying that he's not a light's out shooter. Sometimes he is. Sometimes he isn't, The times that he isn't have come way to frequently in the past. And he's just sat out the first two months of the season.
Hey Joe, on another topic can you weigh in on the 3rd and 1 pitch? Not the play call but the execution of the pitch itself.
Shouldnt the purpose of such a play to eliminate the innermost defender?
That pitch was nearly a straight line pitch back. The pitch was actually inside the inside defender.
would like to hear your thoughts.
It was just as dumb a play call last night for us as it was for the Stillers when they tried it last weekend. It's a dumb play to run in the first place with our personnel, but yeah, you have to at least make the pitch "beat" the first defender so the running back doesn't have to deal with two completely unblocked players out on the edge.
Thank you.
Hearing today the play was either let’s let Beville make a read at the line and make a call or an audible from a play called by the coaching staff.
Yeah but he is also a pretty good shooter of 2s and free throws
With a team who scoring is a problem -
It helps - also to limit jeffress’ minutes so we don’t have to play a net negative offensive player as much
Anyone who doesn't think this improves us offensively is just negative and already thrown in the towel on the Capel era. As far as an overall net positive, that question has yet to be answered. It is conceivable that we score a few more, but also give up more. I am not sure Ithiel will put in the defensive effort that this team needs to compete, or even that he has the basketball IQ to play good team (help) defense. That remains to be seen. If he can defend at or close to a similar level as Will, then I think their is little doubt this team improves and starts winning some games.
Agreed. I am as down on the program as you can be at this point, but Horton improves the team no question, to what degree , remains to be seen. The "Math" says being just a little bit better in these games would change the outcome in some in a positive direction.
He’s not the second coming of Stephan Curry , but not thinking that his presence on the court will not make this team appreciably better isn’t being objective.
No one respects Jeffress shot and with Horton out there the defensive spacing will help out Pitts biggest asset in Hugley and also give Femi more space to drive to the hoop . I can’t put a number on the points , but it’s enough to believe that Pitt would’ve won all those close games .
Bringing Jeffress off the bench might just might make him more aggressive offensively, one could hope !
Should never even been in the situation. I'm sure there is a lot more scumbag lying public than cops. I guarantee he wasn't blameless but probably not to the point of the charges he got.
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It will make the team better in the aggregate. But a whole lot of people here are just assuming that him making the team better on the whole also means that it makes the team better in every single game, and that just simply is not the case. Sports just don't work that way. When he plays well or even decent he most certainly will help the team. His ability to hit shots certainly will help with spacing. But you simply cannot ignore that in the past he has had plenty of games where he simply didn't make any (or many) shots. What if he plays against Louisville next week and he gets 10 threes because Louisville is still doubling and tripling Hugley, and he misses nine of them? How does that help?
And don't forget that although a lot of people here seem to forget this, the point of the game is not to score more points, it's to score more points than the other guys do. And unless Horton plays a lot better on the defensive end than we have seen in the past, in most games playing him more is going to mean that our team defense isn't quite as good. Hopefully that decrease ends up being small and for the most part not so consequential, but you simply can't ignore the possibility that a team that recently has been trying to win mostly with defense isn't going to be as good defensively going forward.
Two things that will be interesting with Horton‘s return is does his game take a step forward from last yr and he become the offensive force JC predicted and how much the defense suffers with him in the lineup .
My bet is his offensive production outweighs the defensive lapses . This will also give an insight on just important Jeffress was on the defensive end of the court .
Even on his off days teams still aren’t going to drop off guarding him like they did with Jeffress .
I think that on the whole this is correct. But like I said, it's not going to be that way every game. Unless a guy who hasn't played all season yet somehow comes in and plays significantly better and more consistently than he did last year. Which, I mean we can all hope that that is exactly what happens, but if that's what anyone is expecting they are far more likely to be disappointed than right.
My bet is that he played and practiced a lot of hoops in his down time and maybe it takes a few games to get back to game speed ,but it’s not like he’s coming off an injury .
A huge part of his issue last year was a significant lack of confidence when he first started playing last year along with a 2 year break from the redshirt. He was clearly nervous in the non conference schedule last year and his shooting to start the season was not good and neither was his production. Not only was this talked about on this forum (his confidence issues), Capel talked about it a lot and Horton openly also talked about this in interviews.
When he started to become more confident and comfortable by playing more, his production went up considerably, including, assist production.
Yes, he is inconsistent. But most underclassmen players are inconsistent, including most of our former star players early on in their careers. That is to be expected. Obviously Horton can help the most by being more consistent this year with his shooting.
If this team was losing games by 10 points to other ACC teams and other decent teams like Monmouth or Minnesota, then No, I dont think Horton makes up that difference. We are literally talking about losing to these teams by 1 point and in this case, Horton absolutely would have made a difference to help win the game.
He is a 4th year junior. He was a 3rd year sophomore. He’s not young. Confidence is such a cop out. If you’re not Uber confident all the time as a shooter, you’re not a shooter. So it’s easy for people to say oh he was struggling with confidence. He’s not a shooter then. It’s a BS lame excuse.
There is no point debating any of this.
We'll find out real soon what he brings to the table and if the team wins with him.
Your points are valid. However, he did come from Delaware and that clearly is a much lower level. It is only natural to have some early doubts about being a good player in a much better conference like the ACC. I was encouraged that his game improved as the season went on. I think he knows what to expect now and knows he can handle it, plus, he knows the team needs him.
But if that’s the case, why would he have not been confident in the non conference season? He was playing the same level he had been playing type schools and had the ultimate green light. The “confidence” issue is BS.
FWIW, pitt needs him back and shoot like he did last year. Go in or not go in, people will have to respect his shot. We’re currently playing 4 on 5 on offense. But to say he “lacked confidence” is a lame cop out.
Exactly. A ton of three point shooters are streaky, and will go 4/6 one game and 1/5 the next. It still balances out to 40% as the season plays out, and opponents have no way of knowing whether that night's game is going to be one of the 4/6 nights. You've gotta respect the 40% shooter either way.
For reference, in the first 10 games he hit 4 or 5 three pointers in 4 games. Man he lacked confidence…
some of you guys will believe ANHTHING
some of you guys will believe ANHTHING
His first 5 games of the season in the non conference schedule he was 7-24 for 29% on three point shots and he was 10-33 from the field for 30%.
Both of those statistics went up in ACC play. He came out of the gate very slow his first 5 games. He averaged 5.4 points per game his first 5 games of the season. He finished his full 17 ACC games at 10 points per game.
So he lacked confidence against St Francis, NIU (5 3’s and arguably his best game of the year) Drexel, northwestern and Gardner Webb but all of a sudden gained this great confidence in ACC play when the competition went up?
Making the biggest hand wanking motion of all time right now. People can’t seriously be buying that
That's right. Its called being nervous and lacking confidence, which happens to a lot of freshmen, a lot of transfers, and a lot of juco players starting off.
Lol bro. He was in his THIRD YEAR OF COLLEGE. And had arguably his best game in one of those five! Holy cats! Stick to your nerd stats, you don’t have much knowledge of actual basketball.
Agreed. Keep in mind, too, that if you're playing Horton, it's not like you're going from zero points to (insert amount that Horton's going to score).
This year, Jeffress is giving you 35 minutes per game and scoring ~0.17 points per minute. Last year, Horton gave you ~0.33 points per minute in the 27 minutes per game he played. So if you're giving Jeffress 10 fewer minutes per game and giving all of those minutes to Horton (along with whatever minutes you're taking away from other guys to play Horton, because Horton's probably looking at around 30 minutes a game), you're looking at, what, 2 extra points a game, even though he scores twice as much? Plus whatever other improvements you can get by cutting other guys' minutes and playing Horton. It's not a ton, but in a season where we've played as many close games as we have, even just a 2 ppg improvement is nice, even if it wouldn't have automatically flipped the script and turned every close loss into a close win.
You dont seem to understand the word "pressure". When Horton was sucking when he first started off last season, you made clear the reason why last year. Go reread what you wrote.
The reason why, is because Pitt beat Northern Illinois by 30 points. And Horton made most of his threes in that game when the lead was 20+ points. All the pressure was taken off of him to perform.
This was the equivalent of Jeffresss earlier this year when he hit 2 meaningless 3's at the end of a game when we already were going to lose and had zero chance of winning. There was zero pressure in making those shots because the game was already over.
Making a 3 pointer in the closing minutes with the game on the line is a lot different than making a 3 pointer with a 25 point lead with the game in cruise control.
I don't understand your fascination that it is all excuses. It was the kids first year on the court with new program. Sure he practiced with them, but, that is not the same as a game. Despite the ooc being against weaker teams, is it not reasonable to expect the kid to take a little time to assimilate to his teammates and how exactly his role in the offense would evolve? His stats steadily improved which tells me his comfort level with his role in the offense was improving as time went along. I get that he is not Steph Curry, but, he is this team's best shooter.
Not everybody adjust to different levels of play at the exact time . Some guys never do and that doesn’t mean that “THEY STINK or Suck “ .
Hortons play will speak for itself .
